Mark of the Death Dealers Battle Thread

[Cravix]

The tree line is about 50 ft away from the front house. There is a turned over wagon 25 ft away from house. The 2 humans are 5 ft into the treeline. Doesnt look like they know you know about them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/cravix/encounter1.png

[Grishnakh]

Initiative: [roll0]
(unless the DM would like to make the rolls...)

[stanleyindraven]

Initiative [roll0]

[Cravix]

You can roll it. I roll enemy init once they know that you know.

[Hawkfrost000]

Initiative [roll0]

i move out of the house keeping the wagon in between me and the men

[Cravix]

The men in the forest become alert once the see the door open and a vampire start taking cover.

Init
[roll0]

Ill be posting their attacks after i get off work later tonight

[Grishnakh]

As soon as Simon starts out the door, Ared picks the most visible of the two humans outside and sends a beam of energy, black steaked with red, straight at him.

Eldritch Blast
Ranged touch attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]


(If both are out of sight Ared will 'Summon Swarm' at the furthest)

[stanleyindraven]

Jubilex bursts out the door, running in the opposite direction of her companion and cover. Her blade drawn and glistening in the moonlight she (double moved) to the treeline some ten feet from the man in the tree.

EDIT: Map not to scale, kinda threw me off.

[Hawkfrost000]

The enemy is starts firing at the one first went out and trying to hide behind the wagon.

In tree [roll0] [roll1]
On ground [roll2] [roll3]

Silver arrows so if they hit they gonna do extra 50%

wait, i have a higher initiative than them, right.

my move is completed and i am behind the wagon, so how can they hit me? do they get a surprise round action? if so then i am still in the house when they fire and they miss.

if they do try to shoot at me when i am behind the wagon do i get a bonus to my AC?

also how can they see me if it is still dark and they are human, with no light source?

[Cravix]

Your gonna be getting a bonus to your AC since you have cover. This is a +4. You have 1 more action then they will fire.

[Hawkfrost000]

response posted in OOC thread (do we really need three threads? :smallconfused:)

the bolt that rolled twenty will hit.

out of curiosity why are the weapons doing 1d7 damage?

[stanleyindraven]

silver weapons do -1 damage

[Cravix]

Just a quick update once darius does his initiative it is enemy init. As far as seeing they see you because it is a clear sky with a bright moon. You are in a clearing so their is no forest to cover it. Thats why they are attacking you now and not at the cave.

[Hawkfrost000]

I'm back, sorry for the wait :smallsmile:

[Cravix]

Sweet! What is your action?

[Hawkfrost000]

I cast Enrage Animal on my Panther and sic him on the guy on the ground.

Panther moves 50ft (should be close enough right?) and then makes a bite attack on the guy on the ground.

Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

[Cravix]

Ok your action changed what they are gonna do.

Angered by the animal the soldier drops his bow pulls his sword and attacks

[roll0] Damage [roll1] Its silver damage so if its a vampire thrall its extra damage.

The one at the top on the tree keeps his composure and concentrates on the master. He will fire at the vampire behind the wagon.

[roll2] Damage [roll3] silver damage

[Hawkfrost000]

Alright, both the men's attacks miss.

Simon springs over the wagon and charges at the man in the tree he leaps up and strikes at him with his long, sharp claws.

Jump (if needed) [roll0] EDIT: woot! crit! on a skill check though; grumble grumble grumble...

Claw 1: Attack [roll1] Damage [roll2] crit fail too, well shoot

Claw 2: Attack [roll3] Damage [roll4]

As he moves his Panther yanks the man she has bitten to the ground, holding his leg in her jaws.

Trip attempt (free action): [roll5]

if the trip is sucessful she will coup de grace the man

Coup de Grace: [roll6] x2 for a critical

however if the trip fails then she bites again, trying for better purchase in the mans flesh.

Bite: Attack [roll7] Damage [roll8]

DM

[Cravix]

This is the initiative

Darius Macab
Enemy
stanleyindraven
Grishnakh

The enemy soldier have just done their action it is currently stanleyindraven's initiative

Also you cant deliver a coup de grace just because you tripped him. A coup de grace can be delivered if someone is bound, sleeping, paralyzed, unconscious, or otherwise at your mercy. Tripping only leaves a person prone.

[Hawkfrost000]

Thats odd...

i could of sworn i could coup de grace when they are prone

oh well, my bad.

[stanleyindraven]

Jubilex will climb up the tree to where the human is positioned.

Climb [roll0]

[Grishnakh]

Why climb when you can blast them? :smallwink:

Eldritch Blast (man in tree): [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

[dabone]

I totally missed the battlethread...


initiative : [roll0]

in cat form (I changed in the IC thread) I try to get out of the house unnoticed. Then going in a arc around the two to get behind them. (try to get to 15 ft. behind them)

hide [roll1]
move silently [roll2]

this probably take more then one round


edit : should have taken off that cat bell :p

[Cravix]

Jubilex will climb up the tree to where the human is positioned.
Climb [roll0]

You try your darnedest to get up that tree but one of your hands just barely slips and you slide down to the ground. The tree is rough and there is a bit of a fall you take [roll0] nonlethal damage.


in cat form (I changed in the IC thread) I try to get out of the house unnoticed. Then going in a arc around the two to get behind them. (try to get to 15 ft. behind them)

hide (1d20+12)[29]
move silently (1d20+7)[9]

You remain unseen until you step on a small furry animal that makes frantic noises which causes them to notice you. The animal runs away.

[Cravix]

Darius since you moved you can only do 1 claw. That claw is gonna miss and you will get a critical fumble. Please roll a d100 and refer to this chart as to what happens. http://www.angelfire.com/dragon3/vinifera/critical_hit_table_2e.pdf

By the way I dont confirm crits we just go by the chart.

[Hawkfrost000]

Darius since you moved you can only do 1 claw. That claw is gonna miss and you will get a critical fumble. Please roll a d100 and refer to this chart as to what happens. http://www.angelfire.com/dragon3/vinifera/critical_hit_table_2e.pdf

By the way I dont confirm crits we just go by the chart.

why can i only do one attack? im not full attacking, just hitting once with each claw, which i can do with my pair of feats, if i attack with a -2 penalty. (which i did.)

I would appreciate it if you let me use a crit confirm rather than just having me stab myself every 20th attack.

EDIT: shouldn't the guy in the tree have suffered a crit fail when he attacked my Panther? :smallconfused: he rolled a one too.

EDIT OF THE EDIT: You do know that these sheets were designed for use with Second Edition rather than the 3.5 that we are using.

EDIT OF THE EDITED EDIT: A lot of the stuff on that table does not make sense. Probably due to the above. How does one "roll Dex" for instance. Is it a Dex check? Is it a reflex save?

[Cravix]

why can i only do one attack? im not full attacking, just hitting once with each claw, which i can do with my pair of feats, if i attack with a -2 penalty. (which i did.)

I would appreciate it if you let me use a crit confirm rather than just having me stab myself every 20th attack.

EDIT: shouldn't the guy in the tree have suffered a crit fail when he attacked my Panther? :smallconfused: he rolled a one too.

EDIT OF THE EDIT: You do know that these sheets were designed for use with Second Edition rather than the 3.5 that we are using.

EDIT OF THE EDITED EDIT: A lot of the stuff on that table does not make sense. Probably due to the above. How does one "roll Dex" for instance. Is it a Dex check? Is it a reflex save?


If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough, because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon or for some special reason you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. SRD

Ill look into it

Its easily converted into 3.5

DC15 for dex saves

[Cravix]

Very well [roll0]

[Cravix]

The enemy previously had no grip of their weapon. As they swing the weapon fly's out of their hand up in the air and hitting their ally. [roll0] damage

Edit: Please roll a d100 then it will be enemy initiative.

[Hawkfrost000]

Wow, I can honestly say that I have never played TWF that way.

Oh well moving on...

I realize that you are the DM, but here is my sencere recommendation:

In 3.5 it is generally accepted that if you critically fail you roll a crit confirm and only then if the crit (fail or success) is confirmed do you roll on a failure table. This is in place for several reasons, many of which are laid down in this exellent quote:



Well, the issue is one of iterative probability. Any player character is FAR more likely to experience fumbles than any NPC, so they have a far far higher chance of being screwed over by such a table than any character the DM cares about. Further, the DM can pad the encounters with LOTS of characters, but the player characters tend not to have this option. FURTHER, this totally screws over people who do work by hitting things with weapons, who hardly need to be made WEAKER in D&D 3.5e. ALSO, these tables aren't heroic. A Barbarian who charges and deals a few hundred damage on a full attack, slaughtering an iron golem (or whatever) through SHEER AWESOMENESS is an epic and incredible character to behold, but with this table, making a character like that is INSANE, because he will inevitably end up killing himself, whereas a simple low level fighter who does a moderate amount of damage with a one handed longsword, and isn't doing much of anything INTERESTING is far less likely to kill themselves or folk near them, despite being far, far, far, FAR more boring. It also screws over ANY melee character whose schtick is that they make lots of attacks.

In a game like this, I would consider making characters which NEVER MAKE AN ATTACK ROLL EVER. Like certain types of Warlocks or Wizards.

That's why I don't like crit fails (and successes) without confirms

But I will roll with it this time: [roll0]

Simon bashes his hand on a low lying branch, hamperd by the pain he is unable to get his arm up in time to block the next attack.

(opponents next attack is at +4 to hit)

[Grishnakh]

Sorry if I sound harsh, but I think we shouln't whine about the crit and fumble table.
First of all, in most games the DM makes a lot more rolls then the player and so is far more likely to get fumbles (ok and crits) and in my experience the table has been more of a help then not. Secondly, it is only natural that if you make a lot of attacks as a character there is more chance of on of them going wrong for whatever reason, the same increased chance applies to crits. And lastly, the charts provide a lot of flavor to any game since they give that extra bit of unpredictability, it give the herioc superfighter a chance to screw up and fall on his face and the gives the stumbling village idiot a chance to slay a dragon by sheer luck, hey an arrow to the eye will do that for you :smallwink:.

[stanleyindraven]

I like the table. But, where are we in the init order and the combat at hand?

[Cravix]

Its enemy init. I will post after work.

[Cravix]

Sorry if I sound harsh, but I think we shouln't whine about the crit and fumble table.
First of all, in most games the DM makes a lot more rolls then the player and so is far more likely to get fumbles (ok and crits) and in my experience the table has been more of a help then not. Secondly, it is only natural that if you make a lot of attacks as a character there is more chance of on of them going wrong for whatever reason, the same increased chance applies to crits. And lastly, the charts provide a lot of flavor to any game since they give that extra bit of unpredictability, it give the herioc superfighter a chance to screw up and fall on his face and the gives the stumbling village idiot a chance to slay a dragon by sheer luck, hey an arrow to the eye will do that for you :smallwink:.

Besides you are are undead and immune to crits. Enemies rolling crits merely is just an autohit. You can still critical fumble.

[Hawkfrost000]

Sorry if I sound harsh, but I think we shouln't whine about the crit and fumble table.
First of all, in most games the DM makes a lot more rolls then the player and so is far more likely to get fumbles (ok and crits) and in my experience the table has been more of a help then not. Secondly, it is only natural that if you make a lot of attacks as a character there is more chance of on of them going wrong for whatever reason, the same increased chance applies to crits. And lastly, the charts provide a lot of flavor to any game since they give that extra bit of unpredictability, it give the herioc superfighter a chance to screw up and fall on his face and the gives the stumbling village idiot a chance to slay a dragon by sheer luck, hey an arrow to the eye will do that for you :smallwink:.

Im not trying to whine, i'm just raising the issue that this is going to hurt the PC's far more than any one NPC

My problem is also that it penalizes melee focused characters (who are always lower tier) My druid is pretty unoptimized for what he does (fight in melee). But, i like the character. I could have done a ridiculously optimized druid that can do pretty much anything (except possibly blasting damage) better than the rest of the party, druids are like that.

That druid would probably never have had to make an attack roll, my companion would have but hey, i can get more of those.

This rule that the DM is using was designed for 2E meaning that it is a lot more lethal than is normal for a 3.5E game. I like my charecter and i dont want him to die, and if there is a chance i kill him (or at least make it vastly easier to be killed, like right now) every time i attack, then i dont really want to attack that much.


In 3.Xe, Crits are confirmed. This table doesn't have anything of the sort -- you roll a 20, you roll on the table, AND it treats fumbles the same way... This is different than how 3.5e treats Crits and Fumbles. Is the table assuming this only works on confirmed crits, but for all fumbles? Are we removing the crit confirming rules? How is this supposed to work?

Since the DM diden't tell us we were using this (extremely) unusual rule set, i would request permission to re-write my character to compensate for it.


it give the herioc superfighter a chance to screw up and fall on his face and the gives the stumbling village idiot a chance to slay a dragon by sheer luck,

But the will do so every 20th roll. does the god of war fall on his face the twentieth time he swings his sword.

can a peasant kill me instantly every twentieth time he hits me with his hoe?

Regardless if you look at it statistically the PC's will hit themselves in the face much more often than any single NPC. they make more rolls than any NPC.

So the situation is: The players will hurt themselves with their attacks (for no reason other than its their 20th attack) far more than their enemies. will this make it more fun for the players?

I seriously doubt it.

[dabone]

it does give an edge of fatality on the game, but don't foget we can't recieve criticals. Also the more attacks also give more chances of critical hits. Then the last thing is that most of the fumble rolls aren't that bad. Only very high in the table can it be very bad. becaue come on if you have a barbarian in the party which can do 200 damage in one attack, would you stand next to it when he does it? :| I would be hiding behind a tree on a save three hundred yard distance, crying for my mommy.

[stanleyindraven]

On the table I haven't seen a chance at instant death at all. Plus one, you must roll inside your crit range or a 1, and two, you must roll a d100, that gives a large margin for effects and chances to have them. That is unless you are specialized in crits.

[Hawkfrost000]

it does give an edge of fatality on the game, but don't foget we can't recieve criticals. Also the more attacks also give more chances of critical hits. Then the last thing is that most of the fumble rolls aren't that bad. Only very high in the table can it be very bad. becaue come on if you have a barbarian in the party which can do 200 damage in one attack, would you stand next to it when he does it? :| I would be hiding behind a tree on a save three hundred yard distance, crying for my mommy.

I don't have a problem with the fact that we roll on the table, i would rather not, but my big problem is that there is no confirmation.

and the fact it isnt made for 3.5:


Effectively, this table and the rules with it treat all successful hits as potential critical hits, and- for lack of a better term- your critical "confirm" chance is (intYourToHit - intTargetAC)/100, times two if you got a nat 20. The spanner in the machine is that, unless there are some additional houserules in play, any threat range beyond natural 20 on a weapon is worthless, as is any feat or enhancement that increases your crit range. So, yeah, Crit fishing isn't the "optimal" 3.5 strategy, but this nerfs that significantly.

Think about it: an epic level fighter will have a chance of fumbling that is 5-6 times higher than when he started out as a level one fighter.

That doesn't make sense. I'ts not that its not realistic, its that it doesn't make sense. As he gets better he screws up more. Why?

[Cravix]

Actaully there were fumble and crit decks designed for 3.5. This is just a fun extra that sometimes i may have to adjust.

[Cravix]

Soldier on the ground will move to the sword on the ground and pick it up. Soldier on the tree will shoot at the least vampire he shot at.?
[roll0] damage [roll1]

[Hawkfrost000]

Actaully there were fumble and crit decks designed for 3.5. This is just a fun extra that sometimes i may have to adjust.

a whole thread of people are telling me they aren't
foolish of me, i should read better

this one isnt

you don't "roll for Dex" in 3.5 that's second ed lingo.

the crossbowman misses. does the picking up his sword provoke an AOO from either me or my Panther?

[stanleyindraven]

Ok, I hate to say this but you have several options: 1) STFU, 2) Quit, 3) I will quit so I don't have to read this crap anymore.

[Hawkfrost000]

Ok, I hate to say this but you have several options: 1) STFU, 2) Quit, 3) I will quit so I don't have to read this crap anymore.

i know...

god forbid there is back and forth between the players and the DM

im sorry, but i really feel that this rule is silly, i gave my reasons to the DM and i await his response. if he continues to ignore me i will leave. But for know I've said my piece.

[stanleyindraven]

All I see is crying about something you dont agree with and trying to justify, this seems like an ooc thing.

[Hawkfrost000]

All I see is crying about something you dont agree with and trying to justify, this seems like an ooc thing.

I am not crying, i have outlined my points about why i think that this rule is inappropriate for this setting to the DM and now i am awaiting a response.

My points may have been colored by my strong feelings on the subject but they are valid and logical points. i can accept that you may find the tone of my argument questionable, but unless you can prove that the points i bring up in my argument are invalid then i see no reason for you to complain.

Regardless i accept that you may not want to see walls of text in a battle thread. Further discussion of this will either be in spoilers or in the OOC thread.

Is this satisfactory? or do you just want me to conform? :smallannoyed:

[stanleyindraven]

I just know that it is pointless to argue the point, especially online, stating that you don't like it is fine. But if you plan on playing regardless of what the DMs decision is then why bother saying anything.

[Hawkfrost000]

I just know that it is pointless to argue the point, especially online, stating that you don't like it is fine. But if you plan on playing regardless of what the DMs decision is then why bother saying anything.

Pointless???? RULE NUMBER ONE!

seriously, if a DM won't consider the enjoyment of his players when he makes a decision about something then count me out. :smallmad:

[dabone]

at this point I must stand by Darius, I don't say I agree with what he says, but at least he is right about how he formatted it. I can see why he doesn't like the rule and he even give his reasons for it. If the DM puts up his final word, we can leave this behind us and continiue playing.

what Darius decides to do after that is his own choice.

[Hawkfrost000]

at this point I must stand by Darius, I don't say I agree with what he says, but at least he is right about how he formatted it. I can see why he doesn't like the rule and he even give his reasons for it. If the DM puts up his final word, we can leave this behind us and continiue playing.

what Darius decides to do after that is his own choice.

i'll shut up now, before i ruin your compliment :smallsmile:

EDIT: moving fully back into the battle...

Cravix, isn't the man on the ground tripped? you never rolled the opposed strength check with my Panther.... but if he is then he will need to stand up first, which many provoke an Attack of Opportunity. Then he will probably have to move out of my Panthers threatened area provoking another AoO. Will he have to move into Simon's threatened area to retrieve the sword? if so he will provoke another AoO.

[Cravix]

You only can get 1 Attack of oppurtunity per round.

[Hawkfrost000]

You only can get 1 Attack of oppurtunity per round.

i realise this, but are AoO's provoked or not?

[Cravix]

i realise this, but are AoO's provoked or not?

Yes..........

[Hawkfrost000]

alright, since you never said that they provoked those attacks in your original post i was wondering if you had forgotten or if they had some special magic that prevented me from making them or that he was five foot stepping and you weren't narrating it.

Simons AOO: [roll0], [roll1]

Panthers AOO:[roll2], [roll3]

Edit: that should make him nice and dead...

[Cravix]

Normally A dying human would make for a tasty treat. However this human is so far mangled he is worthless. Seeing his companion brutilized the human in the tree drops his sword and yells you will burn one day heretics as he takes his sword and runs it through his neck almost cutting it off. He too is no go to you now.

600 XP.