Color or Black and White

[mini_magician]

After having bought a few OOTS books, I think it would definitely be worth paying extra so that they could afford to print the books in color. Or in other words, I would be willing to pay $40 for a full color book instead of the $20-25 for B&W. I enjoy my collection, and the way I see it, I'd rather pay a little more to have a nicer product. I mean, if the difference between BW and color was $25 more for me to buy it, thats OK, I just don't eat fast food for a month or two, and suddenly I've saved an extra $25 for the book.

[Dr.Epic]

But then that one joke in SoD wouldn't work.:smallfrown:

[Cizak]

Hmm... no, I think I'd actually just stick with my B&W copy of SoD. I can't really explain it, but it sorta makes Xykon... scarier. And the whole thing more sad. The B&W contributes to the awesome depresion of SoD.

And OtOoPCs I don't consider good enough for me to buy again. It's certainly very nice to have and I enjoy it since it's OotS, but buying it once is enough.

[FatJose]

The books aren't in color?

[Dr.Epic]

The books aren't in color?

The two prequels.

[The Giant]

After having bought a few OOTS books, I think it would definitely be worth paying extra so that they could afford to print the books in color. Or in other words, I would be willing to pay $40 for a full color book instead of the $20-25 for B&W. I enjoy my collection, and the way I see it, I'd rather pay a little more to have a nicer product. I mean, if the difference between BW and color was $25 more for me to buy it, thats OK, I just don't eat fast food for a month or two, and suddenly I've saved an extra $25 for the book.

I understand this sentiment, but the fact is that not everyone feels the same way.

And to a degree, you're looking at it backwards. We don't print in black-and-white to lower the cost for us, we do it to lower the cost for the reader. Printing the "original content" books in black and white allows us to have some products at a lower price point; not everyone can afford a $40 book. There are many fans (particularly high school and college students) who are low on funds but want to read the new stories that are released in print only. By keeping the cost of the "new" material lower, we can allow more people to experience the entire storyline.

The fact is that we sell two to three times as many copies of the black-and-white books as we do any given color book, and I think a lot of that has to do with the dramatically lower price. Many fans only buy the prequels, not the compilations, precisely because they are cheaper. I'm not going to sacrifice those sales (and leave cash-strapped fans out in the cold) just to cater to the small percentage of people willing to pay more.

Also, black-and-white is a little bit faster to produce than color strips, which helps when I'm trying to crank out 112 pages of content without anyone knowing that I'm doing it.


The books aren't in color?

Only On the Origin of PCs, Start of Darkness, and Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales are not in color (and the latter two have color inserts of 16 and 32 pages, respectively). All of the other books are full color throughout.

[mini_magician]

Would it be possible when the next book comes out to do a pre-order for a colored version that will cost more, and then only print color copies for those that preordered, and then print BW as normal? Similar to how the preorder worked for the Snips and Snails book.

[The Giant]

Would it be possible when the next book comes out to do a pre-order for a colored version that will cost more, and then only print color copies for those that preordered, and then print BW as normal? Similar to how the preorder worked for the Snips and Snails book.

No. The economics of printing means that splitting the print run between two versions will actually make each version cost me dramatically more per copy than if I just printed the entire run one way or the other--meaning that I will make less total money even if I got more sales. Further, colorizing or decolorizing the art will take almost as long as making entirely new comics, and it would be far more efficient to spend that time on other projects (or the regular comic).

[The Pilgrim]

Would it be possible when the next book comes out to do a pre-order for a colored version that will cost more, and then only print color copies for those that preordered, and then print BW as normal? Similar to how the preorder worked for the Snips and Snails book.

That would mean double work for the Giant, having to prepare both a Color and B&W version. Which would further delay the production of the online strips.

(EDIT: Ninja'd by the Giant, no less!)

[GSFB]

I actually assumed the prequels were in B&W as an artistic choice by the Giant, and not for any economic reasons. I think of them as "in the past" and the B&W makes them feel that way.

[Conuly]

I actually assumed it was a decision so I'd be careful to stop storing my crayons near my books, especially given that we have small nieces.

[Warren Dew]

For the prequel books, I think black and white works as an artistic choice, especially for Start of Darkness. I don't feel the same way about the black and white parts of Dragon Tales. This is not to say I was disappointed with Dragon Tales - quite the opposite, it had quite a bit more bonus material than I expected - but I would have been even happier if the black and white pages were replaced by half as many color pages.


And to a degree, you're looking at it backwards. We don't print in black-and-white to lower the cost for us, we do it to lower the cost for the reader. Printing the "original content" books in black and white allows us to have some products at a lower price point; not everyone can afford a $40 book. There are many fans (particularly high school and college students) who are low on funds but want to read the new stories that are released in print only. By keeping the cost of the "new" material lower, we can allow more people to experience the entire storyline.
Surely the lower page count of the prequel books has something to do with their lower price, too?

[Tass]

The fact is that we sell two to three times as many copies of the black-and-white books as we do any given color book, and I think a lot of that has to do with the dramatically lower price.

I wonder if it hasn't more to do with the fact that you get much more original material in those books.

[Alagaesian]

Hey, let's put it this way. I'm one of those college students who is strapped for cash. I wouldn't have bought SoD if I had to pay the extra 15 dollars it probably would have cost to get it in color. Right now, I'm debating about whether I should buy SSaDT. If it was in full color and cost 35 instead of 21, that debate wouldn't have lasted more than three seconds.

So, yeah, the Giant has a point.

[G-Man Graves]

The fact is that we sell two to three times as many copies of the black-and-white books as we do any given color book, and I think a lot of that has to do with the dramatically lower price. Many fans only buy the prequels, not the compilations, precisely because they are cheaper.

With respect, couldn't it be argued that this has less to do with the fact that they are just that, prequels? I think it is entirely possible that people don't buy the colored books simply because they can get most of the content online, bonus strips non-withstanding. The fact that SoD and OtOoPCs are entirely new material may have more to do with increased sales than their coloring and ensuing lower cost.

[Dr.Epic]

What are the odds the Giant one day allows people to just download his books in pdf form (for a price obviously)? It'll be easier since he won't have to do printings, and the Giant could make it so people could choose if they wanted color or not. Just a thought is all.

[mini_magician]

Also, I guess I don't know what software The Giant uses for art, but with Adobe photoshop and indesign, it would be really really easy to take even 100-200 pages of color and make them all black and white. So possibly the Giant wouldn't have to do all the work over twice, he would just do it in color, and then import the file to indesign, then with a few well place clicks of a mouse (or touch screen, hooray, black and white.

However, after reading the others posts, I guess the BW does kind of give the book a special "historic" feeling, in a way.

[Zevox]

What are the odds the Giant one day allows people to just download his books in pdf form (for a price obviously)? It'll be easier since he won't have to do printings, and the Giant could make it so people could choose if they wanted color or not. Just a thought is all.
That has been asked many times, and the answer has always been "no." If memory serves the explanation had something to do with concerns about it reducing the sales of the physical books, making them unprofitable.

Zevox

[Narren]

That has been asked many times, and the answer has always been "no." If memory serves the explanation had something to do with concerns about it reducing the sales of the physical books, making them unprofitable.

Zevox

Do you recall if this question was asked in relation to out of print books?

[Zevox]

Do you recall if this question was asked in relation to out of print books?
Not specifically, but given the Giant has in the past expressed willingness the reprint the currently out-of-print books once he has the money, my guess would be that the answer would remain the same.

Zevox

[Skavensrule]

Do you recall if this question was asked in relation to out of print books?

The Giant has said in several posts that he plans to reprint those books that are currently Out of Print but that his schedule is his own. Considering that the book sales are one of the if not THE principle sources of his current income I would say he has good reasons for not printing new runs. He has explained some of these reasons in prior posts including his reluctance to convert to digital sales. While I admit that "I" would be willing to purchase both the hard copy and the digital version if offered for future books I recognize that most readers would not and that that piracy dangers are much greater with PDFs than with a hunk of paper. The Giant has also been reluctant to state specific schedules for reprints for the very reason of what happened with the latest book. Delays happened and a few people got upset. Not being privy to the desicions of "The Mods" I don't know how many infractions were given during the thread BBQ three months ago, but I would imagine it was a few.

To sum up: This intellectual property belongs to Rich Burlew and will update/print/reprint (in whatever medium) as he decides, and I will continue to enjoy it for as long as possible.

PS: The lobby for a PDF version is being funded by a secret Gnomish Druid Society, (I swear, Durkon told me himself.)

[Warren Dew]

I wonder if it hasn't more to do with the fact that you get much more original material in those books.
That's a good point, that I hadn't thought of when I last posted. The first books I bought were the prequel books, and at the time they were the only ones I was interested in because the other comics I could largely get online. As I mentioned, I still haven't got all the regular books, even though I could easily afford them - and even though Don't Split the Party, say, is actually cheaper per color page than Start of Darkness is per black and white page. I think a lot of people figure, 'no point in buying the regular books, I can just read those strips on line'.


Hey, let's put it this way. I'm one of those college students who is strapped for cash. I wouldn't have bought SoD if I had to pay the extra 15 dollars it probably would have cost to get it in color. Right now, I'm debating about whether I should buy SSaDT. If it was in full color and cost 35 instead of 21, that debate wouldn't have lasted more than three seconds.

So, yeah, the Giant has a point.
He has a point about keeping the overall price point low, but that doesn't necessarily require black and white. Snips is 112 pages - 32 pages of color and 80 pages of black and white - and maybe if it were all color it would have to be limited to, say, 72 pages, but that might still be worth more to the average person. Origins of PCs was 72 pages, so that's not too short for a book.

By the way, if you don't mind mild spoilers, you could read the spoiler thread to get a better idea of what's in the book if that would help you make your decision.

[The Giant]

Why is it that anytime I take the time to explain why I don't do something, everyone tries to give me workarounds? I didn't ask for suggestions on what I should do. I answered a question. It was not an open door for people to start giving me advice.

I'm not going to take the time to type out the 20-odd reasons why it makes sense for me to print out those books in black-and-white. I gave you one of the biggest reasons. There are others. No, I am not going to explain them all.

The question was asked, I gave an answer. Everything after that is just kibitzing.

Thread closed.