Freeform Truenaming?

[Nerdynick]

So my view of Truenaming is that you describe something and reality changes to be that way ("That orc is dead" dealing damage or "I'm in my room" teleporting you). The rules don't represent this very well. And for obvious reasons. A particularly creative player can easily break the game in half if you allow this. I was wondering if there was something that resembled this, however, and remained balanced.

For example: Level each word a truenamer learns (and let them learn, say, three words a level) so that the truename for "death" is only available at exceedingly high levels (this has the side effect of making players get really creative. Instead of "That orc is dead" its "Expand flame" on their campfire). Perhaps have each word in a sentence have a truename DC modifier and add to the sentence's DC. Also alter the DC based on how accurate their wording is to the effect they want to achieve.

Thoughts? Preferably suggestions? (The above system is kinda clunky)

[NichG]

I have a rune magic system that sort of works like this but is more abstract. The runes all consist of either specific (low level) or broad (high level) things, and they can be chained. Spells become easier to cast the more runes are involved, because it makes the effect more and more specific. Within a given phrase, different meanings can be used so long as it fits.

So for instance, if someone had the runes of Mirror, Flow, Key, and Fire, they might do:

Mirror Fire Flow: A spell to reflect fire-based attacks, or a spell to reverse a flame (so it turns to ice, or burns down rather than up).

Fire Mirror Flow: A spell that makes fires reverse things passing throw them. Kinda subtle.

Key Fire: A spell that causes fire to erupt when a condition is met. It could also be a spell that uses fire to divine upon things that restrain someone's power.

Mirror Key: A spell to lock doors, or to lock away someone's power.

Mirror Fire Key: A spell to lock away someone's ability to cast fire spells.

And so on...

[Starbuck_II]

So my view of Truenaming is that you describe something and reality changes to be that way ("That orc is dead" dealing damage or "I'm in my room" teleporting you). The rules don't represent this very well. And for obvious reasons. A particularly creative player can easily break the game in half if you allow this. I was wondering if there was something that resembled this, however, and remained balanced.

Why give everyone a free Utterances (using Truenamer chart) and Truespek as a skill.

Then everyone can attempt Truenaming But still be who they are.

[Necroticplague]

A actually good (imo) piece of homebrew (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Wordmaster_(3.5_Class)) on the dnd wiki is pretty much it. You combine a minimum of two words to create a spell based on them. Depending on how long the sentences are, they can also nova well, since they could create spells of different length to take up different actions.

[Xtomjames]

I think you need to read the rules on Truenaming. While you have the concept correct, you don't have the limitations correct.

For one to use a truename you have to spend time to learn it (outside of the truename utterances listed for the Truenamer). To affect a creature you must know that creature's truename.

Two, for every word added to a truename, the law of resistance comes into effect, increasing the truename DC.

For example let's say I wanted to heal a person, I'd need to know the person's name (DC 15+2*HD and that must be done for a week with no fewer than 1/2 the total HD of the person/creature in number of checks done to learn the name).

I have to know the correct truename utterance or word to heal, and I have to be extremely specific on what I'm healing, thus I must know the truename for the type of wound, the magic that might have caused the damage etc, all with the same type of DC. (To learn the truename of a spell you have to do 15+2*spell level ~ this at least doesn't have to take weeks to learn, the same goes for the wound type ~ 15+2*enhancement bonus of the weapon that caused the wound).

That means if I want to heal a team mate, I'd first have to learn their name (this can be done in game), then I'd have to observe the damage done to the team mate (be it spell or weapon) and I'd have to know the truename for To Heal.

On top of all that for every truespeak utterance added in a string the total truespeak DC increases by +2.

So let's say I get my friend's truename and we're at level 10. To speak his truename, even if I know it, the DC is still 15+2*HD so that's a DC of 45.

Add the truename of the word to heal, thats +2, had the truename of the item that caused the damage that's another +2.

To use truespeech then to heal my friend outright and completely I'd have to beat a DC of 49. Which is impossible unless you use nat 1 nat 20 rules.

On the other hand using plain old utterances with a known truename has a much lower DC because you don't add the truename of the affected object or person to the casting of the spell.

Thus if I were to use the utterance Word of Nurturing Minor the DC is a 15. It doesn't heal him outright, but it would give him fast healing.

[Yorrin]

If you're not opposed to using Pathfinder material there's a section on Wordspells at the end of Ultimate Magic. It's basically the same fluff as Trunaming, and is used as a variant to traditional spellcasting. Be warned, though, that RAW a creative player can abuse the system to get a bunch of permanent duration buffs, so as a DM you should probably just veto those word combinations offhand (or if you're a player, be cautious about using them so that your DM doesn't come down with the ban-hammer).

[Shadow Lord]

If you're not opposed to using Pathfinder material there's a section on Wordspells at the end of Ultimate Magic. It's basically the same fluff as Trunaming, and is used as a variant to traditional spellcasting. Be warned, though, that RAW a creative player can abuse the system to get a bunch of permanent duration buffs, so as a DM you should probably just veto those word combinations offhand (or if you're a player, be cautious about using them so that your DM doesn't come down with the ban-hammer).

Yeah I just got Ultimate Magic yesterday. It looks like a damn good system, but yes, it is very abusable. Then again, a case can be made that it's less abusable than standard spellcasting.

[Yorrin]

Yeah I just got Ultimate Magic yesterday. It looks like a damn good system, but yes, it is very abusable. Then again, a case can be made that it's less abusable than standard spellcasting.

Yeah, other than permanent duration buffs/debuffs, there's not *that* much abuse to be had that I've seen. I'm sure there's some PrC somewhere that's got some crazy synergy with it, but I haven't come across it yet. Overall it seems like a pretty good system.

[Nerdynick]

To affect a creature you must know that creature's truename.

Granted, I've never taken a good hard look/playtest of the Truenaming rules, but I never saw anything that said you had to know a creature's truename to affect it. It was always my perception that you could use pronouns/non Proper nouns to affect the creature. (Again with the "That orc dies" example; You don't know the orc's truename, but you know the truename for "orc" and your mind's perception gives the utterance direction)

EDIT:

Looking over Ultimate Magic, the wordspell system does look pretty nice. To adapt it to truenamers, I suppose you could set a Truespeech DC based on the effective level of the wordspell (and perhaps add the law of resistance?).

Alternatively, would scaling down the Epic Level Spell seeds work? Maybe providing a bit more variety as well? (Instead of just "energy" you have the different types)

[Xtomjames]

Granted, I've never taken a good hard look/playtest of the Truenaming rules, but I never saw anything that said you had to know a creature's truename to affect it. It was always my perception that you could use pronouns/non Proper nouns to affect the creature. (Again with the "That orc dies" example; You don't know the orc's truename, but you know the truename for "orc" and your mind's perception gives the utterance direction)

EDIT:

Looking over Ultimate Magic, the wordspell system does look pretty nice. To adapt it to truenamers, I suppose you could set a Truespeech DC based on the effective level of the wordspell (and perhaps add the law of resistance?).

Alternatively, would scaling down the Epic Level Spell seeds work? Maybe providing a bit more variety as well? (Instead of just "energy" you have the different types)


Sorry, but your "the orc dies" doesn't quite work. In the section on "Target" under utterances it talks about how you have to be specific, and how each situation has a unique truename. Under the Truenamer Magic Spell list every spell requires you to know the specific creature's truename to use the spell. Which means that any spell used by the Truenamer to target any creature specifically you'd need to know their truename. In some instances spells don't require a truename of a creature to cast (like fireball as a truenamer spell) or spells that don't have a specific target. Bearing in mind differences between Lexicon utterances and spells.

In other words, with your example, I'd need to know the Orc's truename first, then I could address the Orc specifically to cause death. The spell sequence would be "orcs truename+word of death". If you were to address an orc by just saying the truename of Orcs it might affect a different orc entirely than the one you're intending on killing.

Truenamers in one respect are superbly broken, but in general to get to that level of brokenness your character needs a lot of information first in game.

[Starbuck_II]

Sorry, but your "the orc dies" doesn't quite work. In the section on "Target" under utterances it talks about how you have to be specific, and how each situation has a unique truename. Under the Truenamer Magic Spell list every spell requires you to know the specific creature's truename to use the spell. Which means that any spell used by the Truenamer to target any creature specifically you'd need to know their truename. In some instances spells don't require a truename of a creature to cast (like fireball as a truenamer spell) or spells that don't have a specific target. Bearing in mind differences between Lexicon utterances and spells.

No, that is false.
You have to say "that Orc", or their truename. You don't have to know their unique truename. You just have to describe them.
Saying there truename lowers SR (but that is really only reason)
Which is why you use Utterances off Truename list.
Example it gives, "That orc berserker charging at me". No truename required pg 191. (truespeak check alwys required)
There is a truename for door, orc, or Sword. You know these automatically by having the skill.
DC is still 15+2xCR or 15 x2HD (if ally).
The DC is because you have to be exact when describing which "That Orc" you are referring to.

Even Truenamers know few personal truenames (pg 192) so if they had to know everyones truename that be oppoaite what book says.

A Truename: Description of a creture, thing, or action. Pg 194.

You are confusing Truename with Personal Truename.

[Shadow Lord]

Sorry, but your "the orc dies" doesn't quite work. In the section on "Target" under utterances it talks about how you have to be specific, and how each situation has a unique truename. Under the Truenamer Magic Spell list every spell requires you to know the specific creature's truename to use the spell. Which means that any spell used by the Truenamer to target any creature specifically you'd need to know their truename. In some instances spells don't require a truename of a creature to cast (like fireball as a truenamer spell) or spells that don't have a specific target. Bearing in mind differences between Lexicon utterances and spells.

In other words, with your example, I'd need to know the Orc's truename first, then I could address the Orc specifically to cause death. The spell sequence would be "orcs truename+word of death". If you were to address an orc by just saying the truename of Orcs it might affect a different orc entirely than the one you're intending on killing.

Truenamers in one respect are superbly broken, but in general to get to that level of brokenness your character needs a lot of information first in game.

Wait, what? You're saying that.... Truenamer.... is broken? How... what... huh? I don't understand...

[Rogue Shadows]

I have a rune magic system that sort of works like this but is more abstract. The runes all consist of either specific (low level) or broad (high level) things, and they can be chained. Spells become easier to cast the more runes are involved, because it makes the effect more and more specific. Within a given phrase, different meanings can be used so long as it fits.

Someone has played Sanity's Requiem.


Wait, what? You're saying that.... Truenamer.... is broken? How... what... huh? I don't understand...

This...isn't really...happening...!!!

[sreservoir]

Wait, what? You're saying that.... Truenamer.... is broken? How... what... huh? I don't understand...

check its highest level of LPM utterances. note the conspicuous lack of an xp cost.

then realize that it doesn't actually get it until level 20.

[Person_Man]

If you're into White Wolf games, the old Mage: The Ascension had mages who could basically bend reality to do whatever they want (within certain limits determined by how much you invest in each type of reality alteration), with the primary limit being Consensus. If people watching you don't believe what you're doing could happen, it triggers Paradox (very bad things). If they look at you and think it could happen, it just happens. So a mage throwing pure lightning from his hands would probably trigger Paradox. But a mage holding a clearly labeled (but fake) "electric stun gun" which threw lightning probably wouldn't.

Obviously Paradox would be impossible to enforce in a default D&D world. But if you played in a "real life" setting (like ancient Greece, Rome, medievil England) where magic was rare but not unheard of, you could do something similar.