League of Legends XX: Riot's in the Playground!

[TechnOkami]

League of Legends XX:
Riot's in the Playground!


Just talk to SweetRein (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=23392), she'll tell you all about it. Congratulations!

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Into the Wild - Guide to Being a Better Jungler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10867111#post10867111) by Mtg_player_zach
Laser Bear Udyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9657101&postcount=39), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Rammus: Can't touch this (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=258919), by Math_Mage
Seizing the fourth digit: Playing your way out of Elo Hell. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=341821) by Math_Mage
Twitch (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10267058&postcount=1448), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Faulty and Raistlin's Quick Build Database: Notes and Stuff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10942497&postcount=1004) by Faulty and Raistlin
Jungle Akali (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10498621&postcount=1358) by Djinn
How to play everyone's favourite Lightning Squirrel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10518034&postcount=154) by Dogmantra
Lee Sin (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=636475) by Dralnu
Super Serious Rumble Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11052926&postcount=904) by Dogmantra
Jax (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11252389&postcount=652) by Mtg_player_zach
OH SNAP Morgana Can Jungle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11295698&postcount=1238) by Dogmantra
Anivia Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11514141&postcount=845) by Eldariel

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Jungle Janna! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC6wm9iaNmM)
How to Win Every Game in League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrsTE1vpoXM)
Panic at the Nexus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WlCbaLI3I)
Sunfire Cape Sunday (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgjfX6crjrg)
Season One Trailer with Commentary (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/season-one-trailer-commentary)
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LoL Comic (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=48169) by Elagune
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Chibi Champions (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=763895) by pika7
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TRAVEL BACK IN TIME: PREVIOUS THREADS
League of Legends XIX: 15 million players, and nary a Morgana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210332)
League of Legends: XVIII: ┻━┻ ︵ （╯°□°）╯ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207908)
League of Legends XVII: Gondor Has No Tank, Gondor Needs No Tank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205488)
League of Legends XVI: Alas, Poor Game Balance, I Knew Him, Morello (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203298)
League of Legends XV: Robots Are Better Than Trees (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201024)
League of Legends XIV: We're So Broken That We're OP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198948)
League of Legends XIII: Our Skill is Hard to Deny (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196765)
League of Legends XII: It's Worth It Because I Said So In The Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194886)
League of Legends XI: It's Hard to Post Like This in Heels (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192695)
League of Legends X: Armored Armadillo Delivers Ambiguous Affirmative (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10646164#post10646164)
League of Legends IX: New Thread Available! Only 6300 IP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188076)
League of Legends VIII: Gali-Os: They're idolicious! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185516)
League of Legends 7: Truly, Truly Outrageous! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182486)
League of Legends 6: Jannaaaaaaaaaa! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178334)
League of Legends 5: Tall Grass Used Garen! DEMACIAAA! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173805)
League of Legends 4:CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAW (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169616)
League of Legends 3: You only need to click once (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164008s)
League of Legends Goes Where It Pleases 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158135)
League Of Legends: We post where we please. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139094)

[Archangel Yuki]

Attack is Q, Dissonance is W, Protect is E, and Shockwave is R.

I could definitely see that doing well, by the way. I'll have to test it. I think I've kind of halfway done that before, but I didn't see any significantly different results.

I play a lot of Orianna.
Magic Pen Reds, (Your Choice) Yellows, and Scaling AP Blues with flat AP Quints.
I prefer Heath/lvl Yellows because I am normally really conservative with my mana in lane and don't need much in ways of mana regen.
Run 9/0/21.

R>Q>W>E

Abuse Q to harass in lane and conserve mana. Abuse W to chase well with passive in lane. Last hit, ect ect. Laning is stupid easy on her.
I go
boots +3hp
Catalyst
ROA
boots2
deathcap
other ap stuff

Teamfights depend on who is on your team. A good strategy Arc and I use when he plays Alistar is keep the ball on him by using an early shield, wait for him to initiate, and pull everyone into him for an easy pulverize. this works well with an initiator. Pulling people into Jarvans ult is the best.

Normal fights go Q someone, R when you can land a few people in it, then W them once they get pulled in. this insures that even if they flash you end up screwing them over. abuse your long range for teamfights and farmfarmfarmfarmfarm. Take every blue you can. demand it for all I care. build tanky after Deathcap, win games.


EDIT::


Is this wrong? Seems like going from level 1 Q to level 5 Q is a 50% increase in mana cost. And it's still negligible compared to the cost of W, which is 110 mana at level 5 (though 70 mana at level 1 is nothing to joke about either).

It just seems strange to me that one would depend on W for lane harass when you can't use it as often and it requires nearly double the mana of an equally leveled Q.

Math_Mage has it right, as usual. The other reason you focus Q is low cooldown AOE and BALL POSITIONING. All the power in the world on your W doesn't mean **** if you screw up your Q and have to wait to land another one. Plus, better scaling on Q... Q is just an amazing spell. Never have to facecheck a bush, always be able to harass, good for pushing.


EDIT2, REVENGE OF THE EDIT:::
I'll probably post this in the new thread properly as an Orianna guide.
Stop building Tear on Orianna. With a RoA and proper skill management you should NEVER worry about mana. I don't even take Mana Regen RUNES on her because she is so economical if you play her correctly.

[Godskook]

Reposting cause I posted after the last thread 'ended' :


I can explain this; Ryse's ap ratios are bad enough to be considered a non-factor,

Why does this horrible lie keep getting perpetuated? Annie(who does have good AP ratios) has 2.1 burst ratio with a .2/sec additional from Tibber's AoE, with no way of keeping you local after the stun wears off(she needs two disintegrate CDs to stun again), so we'll call that about 2.5 scaling. Ryze's C combo has a 2.25 AP ratio. These don't really look like a non-factor to me....

People just don't properly pay attention to his AP ratios cause of how juicy his mana ratios are for Q and W.

His main problem isn't the ratios, its the lack of bursting power, which requires him to build tanky enough to get his combo out, hence why mana items are better on him then AP items, cause he can build them tankier while still getting solid damage.


and manamune/archangles have the same excact cap.

Actually, Archangels gets 50 more mana, but w/e, I'm nitpicking here.


Also by the time ryze is upgrading his tear (it is the last thing you do), he is already tearing champs apart he doesn't need any more champ killing power, he needs pushing power and what's a more effective conversion: 40% of 2% of your total mana (AA) or flat 2% of your total mana (manamune)?

1.Your numbers are wrong in two completely separate manners.
1a.Archangels is 3% AP, not 2%
1b.You're ignoring the incidental flat AP that Ryze is getting that is negated by using a Manamune. Namely from a Rod of Ages. That's 40% of your AP which is 125 AP + 3% of mana as AP, compared 20 AD + 2% of mana. And assuming 5000 mana, the tower damage is 110 damage using Archangels or 120 damage using Manamune. 10 damage is not enough to write home about be worth giving up what Archangels gives.

2.Lol whut? Ryze doesn't need damage? I'm sorry, but I'm not even going to take that statement seriously unless you can come up with something better than 'buy 10 pre-armor turret damage instead'.

3.'Course, there are a few legit arguments I've heard since making that post for buying a Manamune first. One was from Chimney, and involved buying the Manamune early enough and using it to fast-charge the tear, cause Manamune charges way faster than tear/staff. The other was that Manamune is 745 gold cheaper, and that cost-efficiency has gotta count for something.

(Note: I did not include any benefits of buying Manamune early when countering your points cause you explicitly said "it is the last thing you do")


EDIT2, REVENGE OF THE EDIT:::
I'll probably post this in the new thread properly as an Orianna guide.
Stop building Tear on Orianna. With a RoA and proper skill management you should NEVER worry about mana. I don't even take Mana Regen RUNES on her because she is so economical if you play her correctly.

Could you go into more detail about the issues with Archangels on Orianna? Its one of the best AP/slot items in the game, and on Orianna beats out 2nd Rabadon's at precisely 1 sapphire crystal more than a Rod of Ages(so if you had, say, AA+RoA+Sapphire, you'd have over 145 AP from your AA).

Does she not do a good job charging it or something, or is there just not room in her item kit?

[Math_Mage]

Could you go into more detail about the issues with Archangels on Orianna? Its one of the best AP/slot items in the game, and on Orianna beats out 2nd Rabadon's at precisely 1 sapphire crystal more than a Rod of Ages(so if you had, say, AA+RoA+Sapphire, you'd have over 145 AP from your AA).

Does she not do a good job charging it or something, or is there just not room in her item kit?

You get enough flat AP from your Deathcap. Time to buy something that helps you in other ways. Void Staff for penetration, Rylai's for health and slow on everything, Zhonya's for DAT ACTIVE, some actual survivability, Revolver to make you into a sustained damage dealer, and so on. Orianna's fine at charging it, it's just that she usually doesn't want it.

[9mm]

Why does this horrible lie keep getting perpetuated?
Because it's TRUE. Ryse scales hardstyle with his mana, not his ap; the simple fact that AP is about his least useful stat, as it gives only very, very minor benifits for his skills. for the record his most useful stats are, in order: Mana, magic penetration, health, MR, armor, ap, cdr, and last but not least hp and mp regen; and as I said before if you cannot blow you opponents away by the time you are upgrading your tear, your going to lose regardless of the upgrade choice and your team desperately needs you to able tear through a tower, which even your own math tells you manamune does better; the fact that manamune builds up faster than AA is an added bonus.

[Archangel Yuki]

Could you go into more detail about the issues with Archangels on Orianna? Its one of the best AP/slot items in the game, and on Orianna beats out 2nd Rabadon's at precisely 1 sapphire crystal more than a Rod of Ages(so if you had, say, AA+RoA+Sapphire, you'd have over 145 AP from your AA).

Does she not do a good job charging it or something, or is there just not room in her item kit?

She can charge it fine. The problem is it just gives mana and AP. I already stated that you don't need mana, so all it really gives you is AP. There are just so many better items to fill slots; deathcap, ROA, Sorc shoes, hourglass, (some other ap item; i like WotA if no one else has one or a Void staff), Defensive item like Bveil or Guardian Angel.

[Volatar]

My votes are for Now Verifiably High Elo and Riot's In The Playground, FWIW.



K, now I'm confused.



Is this wrong? Seems like going from level 1 Q to level 5 Q is a 50% increase in mana cost. And it's still negligible compared to the cost of W, which is 110 mana at level 5 (though 70 mana at level 1 is nothing to joke about either).

It just seems strange to me that one would depend on W for lane harass when you can't use it as often and it requires nearly double the mana of an equally leveled Q.

Bwuh. :smalleek: Either they changed that in one of the recent patches, or I have been reading it all wrong. I swear that Q started with a mana cost of 30 and went to 45 at level 2. :smallfrown:

This changes things.

[Math_Mage]

AP is not an insignificant stat on Ryze, it's just not an optimal stat. You're gonna throw a lot more Q than E.

[Daverin]

Basically, the argument for AP on Ryze seems to hinge on the consistency of using E at the right times as a single target so the AP ratio adds up; 35%, even if hitting multiple people, is not really interesting enough to justify. He also has a decent ratio on his W, although the mana already probably will do enough on that as you keep building it.

So its either supping up E (and W) under certain circumstances, or 10 extra tower damage, cheaper, and potentially easier to build up. I would probably award manamune, if for no other reason than being 745 cheaper doesn't count for something... it counts for alot. That is a rather large chunk of gold that can be spent on another item, which is infinitely more useful than any back and forth about AP vs 10 additional tower damage.

[Dogmantra]

just get both

bam

[efdf]

just get neither


Could you go into more detail about the issues with Archangels on Orianna? Its one of the best AP/slot items in the game

If you accept that Orianna doesn't need mana after Rod of Ages

then there are only two items in the game that give nothing but AP
1. Rabadon's Deathcap
2. Archangel's Staff

Rabadon's Deathcap gives more AP, builds out of better components, (tear is useless if you don't need the mana) requires no charge and has better art for its icon

so you could say Archangel's is the second best AP/slot item in the game
but there is only one item that it could be compared to on an even footing (other AP items give spellvamp, cdr, magic pen, etc)

so you could also say it's the worst AP/slot item in the game

also, i am the new kennen guru now, ill get around to writing a guide soon, the item order is pretty complex
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/6905/unledbmc.jpg

[Eldariel]

so you could say Archangel's is the second best AP/slot item in the game
but there is only one item that it could be compared to on an even footing (other AP items give spellvamp, cdr, magic pen, etc)

so you could also say it's the worst AP/slot item in the game

The charge can't be overstated either. Rabadon is better so you rush it. If you start charging Tear after finishing Rabadon's and maybe ROA (I don't use ROA myself very much but I find it a decent alternative), you'll be easily 30-40 mins into the game before the Tear is fully charged. You invest on a low AP item and wait for it to become worthwhile.

The only champion I really use AA Staff on is Anivia and even there I'm experimenting without it after all the manacost reductions. Especially with bluebuff, basically all champions are fine without it (with the potential exception of Anivia). Karthus and Swain can have some rationale for it, but in general, if you don't need the Mana for teamfights, AA Staff is not efficient.

[Dogmantra]

just get neither

I can shout louder so you're wronger

(also I think you need more phantom dancers on kennen, screw IE, it means you get fewer stun procs)

[TechnOkami]

I can shout louder so you're wronger

(also I think you need more phantom dancers on kennen, screw IE, it means you get fewer stun procs)

lol stun squirrel

[term1nally s1ck]

Is AD Kennen actually viable? It seems a surprisingly good idea. Hard and AoE CC, a good escape, and decent base stats.

[tyckspoon]

I can shout louder so you're wronger

(also I think you need more phantom dancers on kennen, screw IE, it means you get fewer stun procs)

You seem to have terribly misspelled Gunblade, here.

[Godskook]

Because it's TRUE. Ryse scales hardstyle with his mana, not his ap;

No, his Q scales hardstyle with mana. Both his W and E scale better with AP. He also scales all his abilities with AP. I'm also not arguing against mana at all, and in fact, its your side of the argument that's supporting the lower-mana total.


for the record his most useful stats are, in order: Mana, magic penetration, health, MR, armor, ap, cdr, and last but not least hp and mp regen;

My only disagreements with this list are tangential to our conversation, but I suspect that you actually disagree with it, since AD is no where on it.


Basically, the argument for AP on Ryze seems to hinge on the consistency of using E at the right times as a single target so the AP ratio adds up; 35%, even if hitting multiple people, is not really interesting enough to justify. He also has a decent ratio on his W, although the mana already probably will do enough on that as you keep building it.

You'll note though, that I'm:
1.Not arguing for AP over mana, but rather Staff over Manamune
2.Including the 1 bounce case(and still coming in with good numbers; see the post in the last thread, about page 45 or so)

[Math_Mage]

Is AD Kennen actually viable? It seems a surprisingly good idea. Hard and AoE CC, a good escape, and decent base stats.

AD Kennen is like AP Teemo, AD Sion, AD TF, and other alternate builds that look good in theorycraft and play out moderately well. The main thing that bothers me about AD Kennen is short range and very bursty abilities and only the one weak steroid.

[Dogmantra]

AD Kennen has the worst damage of all the viably built ADers.

However, he has pretty good CC and mobility. I think the real barrier is the Hourglass. Your ult is crappy if you just have an Hourglass for AP but if you don't get one then your ult is either useless or just worse than it should be.

[term1nally s1ck]

I tested, and he's SO strong.

The range is actually good. 575 is higher than miss fortune, Vayne, and is only 25 less than Ashe.

W proc Q and W are a really fast stun to open with, and when you are autoattacking a lot during the stun, you do a ton of damage.

His base stats are significantly better than Ashe, and with Q W, his damage is much better than ashe who only has volley.

Oh, and did I mention the AoE ulti that you can pop in the middle of a teamfight to mass stun, allowing you to walk back to a safe distance to continue the pain.

[TechnOkami]

btw everybody, I've posted on League Craft for someone to pick up the Pyramid Head Tryndamere Skin I so addamently approve of.

It can be found here. (http://forum.leaguecraft.com/index.php?/topic/35483-pyramid-head-tryndamere-request/)

[Lord Generic]

So... I'm a lurker that finally decided I should make a gitp account.

I tend to be pretty quiet on forums so don't expect me to post much but I do play LoL! Name's Lord Generic

S'pose I should get Mumble and just hang around on that then? Or do you guys like new people to go anywhere in particular?

[Zeful]

Talon Mechanics Preview (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/talon-mechanics-preview) for those that missed it.

[TechnOkami]

So... I'm a lurker that finally decided I should make a gitp account.

I tend to be pretty quiet on forums so don't expect me to post much but I do play LoL! Name's Lord Generic

S'pose I should get Mumble and just hang around on that then? Or do you guys like new people to go anywhere in particular?

I'll add you to the list.

Actually, I need more info. What server are you on and is the name Lord Generic also your LoL name?

[tyckspoon]

Talon Mechanics Preview (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/talon-mechanics-preview) for those that missed it.

Ok, so there's a dash in, and.. I'm not really seeing the escape? He'll need Shadow Assault on a fairly short cooldown if that's to work out as his intended exit technique.. no inherent sustaining abilities, melee, deliberate 'fragile' design.. hmm. I'm having trouble imagining this guy in Jungle, and it sounds like he'll probably get shoved around by any of the more powerful laners. Thoughts? Do actual numbers on him need to be released? Because this sounds like a losing concept for the current state of the game.

[Lord Generic]

Ah, sorry about that.

I'm on the North America region (that's what you meant by server right?)

And my LoL name is indeed the same as this accounts name. To restate it, Lord Generic

[TechnOkami]

Ah, sorry about that.

I'm on the North America region (that's what you meant by server right?)

And my LoL name is indeed the same as this accounts name. To restate it, Lord Generic

You've been added. Welcome to the party. :smallcool:

[Volatar]

S'pose I should get Mumble and just hang around on that then? Or do you guys like new people to go anywhere in particular?

Mumble is definitely the place to find games.

[dgnslyr]

Huh, I don't think I've told you guys what my LoL name is.
Anyways, it's GANKERLagann, and I'd imagine I play on the North American server, because that's where I live.

[Joran]

Is AD Kennen actually viable? It seems a surprisingly good idea. Hard and AoE CC, a good escape, and decent base stats.

Ask Shurelia... She's the crazy mind behind AD Lux and AD LeBlanc.

[TechnOkami]

Huh, I don't think I've told you guys what my LoL name is.
Anyways, it's GANKERLagann, and I'd imagine I play on the North American server, because that's where I live.

Done. :smallcool:

[balistafreak]

You know what's awesome? Gangplank with Boots of Swiftness, a Trinity Force, and a Force of Nature. I was going to get a Phantom Dancer as a final item but I ended up using that slot to carry wards for Baron on our final push, and then we won. :smallfrown:

With the utility movement mastery, I had 497 base movement, more when I used Raise Morale. Do you know how satisfying it is to chase Nidalee through her jungle and catch her? Or how funny it is to catch an Insanity Potioned, Ghosting Singed?

[Makensha]

Is AD Kennen actually viable? It seems a surprisingly good idea. Hard and AoE CC, a good escape, and decent base stats.

I carry hardest as AD Kennen of any AD carry I've played. Seriously. Your main goal is to horribly murder your opposing enemy in lane then snowball from there. Your ult and E are defensive maneuvers to keep from dying or to take down runners.

Your strongest attribute is being the only ranged AD carry with continous stun power. Your build is pretty standard, as you still need crit damage to do really scary damage.

I'm working on a full write up of my thoughts on everything Ryze. A FULL write up this time.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

How have people been building new Pantheon?

[Mutant Bunny]

So... Talon. If he doesn't have an built-in CC (don't know if that blood trail thing counts (nocturne ability clone?), I strongly suspect that he will be either red buff, Rylai's, or Mallet-dependent...

[Math_Mage]

How have people been building new Pantheon?

AD. All the AD. No, double that.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

AD. All the AD. No, double that.

Really? Not TriMogMa's? I'm astonished.


If you build 2xtotal AD, how do you keep from instamelting? He doesn't seem to have the ease of ingress and regress that gives Glass Yi his niche.

[Raistlin1040]

That's why you take Revive. So you can be MANtheon.

[Volatar]

Ask Shurelia... She's the crazy mind behind AD Lux and AD LeBlanc.

AD Lux is so much fun :smallbiggrin:

[Dienekes]

How have people been building new Pantheon?

Honestly haven't changed much, he just does it better.

Start: Boots 3pot, or longsword pot, or Doran's Blade
Core: Merc Treads, Brutalizer, BFS
Need more health: Frozen Mallet
Bunch of Casters: Banshee's Veil
F***ing Galio: Quicksilver Sash
More damage: BFS, Last Whisper

My final item set generally looks something like:
Merc Treads, Youmuu's Ghostblade, Infinity Edge, Bloodthirster, Frozen Mallet, Banshee's Veil
Possibly sell Brutalizer for Last Whisper, and find some spot for QSS if needed. Buying 2-3 Doran's Blades is fine.

Leveling:
QWE, R>Q>E>W. Yes, HSS is awesome now and technically increases by more damage per point, but Spearshot does amazing harass and you'll be spamming that more. But really I have to try both more often with a competent team (I am getting so many leavers it's not funny)

Runes: Unless I miss-mathed despite Pantheon's awesome AD ratios ArP runes are still better than AD runes so.
ArP marks and quints, Mana/second seals, Cooldown glyphs.

Masteries:
21/0/9, or 12/0/18. Though put 1 in defense if you're using revive.

Summoners:
Flash/Ghost is what I go because Pantheon needs an escape desperately.
Exhaust is also great
I don't like Revive because after the ult range nerf by the time you resurrect and move to a location to jump the fight is probably already over, but I know folks that swear by it.

[Spartacus]

My god, I leave for 12 hours and 6 pages go by. I would like to say that from my diving through what I missed, this is the cream of the crop:


That's a pretty accurate rendition of the noises I made during my last game. (We were obliterated.)

[Dogmantra]

How have people been building new Pantheon?
I get gunblades and I go around executing people with spears and gunblade shots. I don't think there's any reason not to get one. 1:1 AP ratio on the stun, spellvamp gives you much needed sustain for a physicaster and the best bit is that you can Gunblade WHILE HEARTSEEKING.


Ask Shurelia... She's the crazy mind behind AD Lux and AD LeBlanc.
To be fair I've been an advocate of AD LeBlanc ever since Nano pointed out that her autoattack animation would be hilarious at 2.5 attackspeed.

[Makensha]

This is as in-depth about Ryze as I feel like going. Ever.

Your most important stat is CDR. I don't care how you do it, but get 40%. Obviously the best route is Frozen Heart + Blue Buff, but sometimes that just doesn't come together, and late game you will be getting less than 10% CDR benefit from Blue Buff, so it will likely switch to someone else. Blue pot is a good substitute if you can't get it.

Masteries
Either 9/0/21 or 0/9/21. The 21 in support is non-negotiable. Too many good things. This is a choice between the Spell Pen and CDR or the Regen. The choice you are really making is late game or early game respectively. The CDR and Spell Pen will help you much more than the Regen will late game However, for sustainability the regen easily outmatches the spell pen and CDR. It will also change how much CD you need to get or live without. Ryze really like 40% CD, so leaving at 36% is not a nice place to be.

Runes
A standard caster page can work with Ryze, especially if you're looking to get 40% CDR (which you are). However, full mana Quints, Blues, and Yellows make you hit for about 100 damage at level 1 on a 3.5 second cooldown. That's much more spam-able than other 100 damage level 1 nukes, and once you hit level 2 that damage is half the enemies health bar style damage.

Really the only contest here is between CDR Blues and Mana Blues. CDR helps with itemizing and Mana helps early game with lane sustain and damage. I generally mix the two.

Summoner Spells
Ryze really likes Flash, and he really likes Ghost. With these two spells and Rune Prison, even Singed will be on his knees as you eternally kite him. Ignite, Exhaust, and Teleport can also be good, but I have found the Flash/Ghost combo to be the most effective and useful in most situations.

Items
Captain Obvious Items: Banshee's Veil, Frozen Heart, and Tear of the Goddess
Don't have these three items? Either you are doing it wrong, or your opponents have a really bad team comp.
Boot Options: Sorc Boots, Merc Boots
The question here is actually: How reliably can you keep yourself away from CC? This often depends on your team, so choose which best fits each situation. Don't get Ionian Boots of Stomping. You should be getting your CDR from other places.
Other Items: Void Staff, Rod of Ages, Will of the Ancients, Morello's Evil Tome and Rylais Crystal Scepter
Void Staff should be pretty obvious. It isn't for the AP, its for the 40% Spell Pen.
Rod of Ages is a good damage item, especially if you can substitute your Banshee's Veil for it. I usually find the MR and Veil passive to be more beneficial, but the damage from Rod of Ages is good.
Will of the Ancients is pretty amazing. Its even better if you can convince somebody else to build it. That really makes you dangerous in sustained and burst situations, as you can survive burst by being tanky + having 50% Spell vamp through ult and aura. In sustained situations, the same applies, as you still have a good amount of damage outside of your initial burst. And then during harassment, you can trade and come out ahead because you can spell vamp without having to use your ult. Will of the Ancients is fantastic on Ryze, especially if somebody else builds it.
Morello's Evil Tome is only on this list because it is a substitute for Frozen Heart if the enemy team is entirely magic damage. Hey, it happens every once in a while.
Rylais should be pretty obvious. The slow outweighs any other advantage other items have because it makes you the infinite kiter. Your Q is the shortest CD in the game that still gives the full 35% slow from Rylais instead of the 15% slow. Plus your passive means your will chain lock somebody constantly with Rylais and Rune Prison. The health and AP are nice too, but the slow is what you are really looking for.

And now...
THE GREAT MANAMUNE VS. ARCHANGEL'S DEBATE
Not really. Archangel's Staff is just better. Sure its a little more expensive and takes slightly (slightly) longer to charge, but it'll give you around 160 AP endgame. That's more than a Deathcap (Yeah, yeah, deathcap passive. Not the point). Ryze still scales rather well with AP. Perhaps not as well as Malzahar, but that's probably for the best. Sure, his Q is a .2, but that is a .2 on what is effectively a 1.1 second CD. Plus when his ult is up that is also hitting in an AoE. His W still scales OK, and his E is still pretty rockin', but there is one thing you make not have thought of: Ryze's E reduces magic resist. So that 160 AP is dealing more damage than equivalent physical damage (which Manamune is NOT).

Why is this a debate? Get Archangel's. I personally don't build it until I already have my Frozen Heart and Banshee's, but get build your Tear into an Archangel's.

Ryze on the Field: A Battle Guide.

Ability Ordering: Focus R, Q, W, E, with a point in E at 3.

Lane Phase: How well you do has a lot to do with whether you went for a early or late game rune and mastery page. AA to last hit. Hit them with Q whenever it is off CD. Don't be an idiot. Early on your combo is QWEQ. This will take away a ton of the enemy's health bar. Your level 2-4 damage is insane. If you are going to win your lane, this is when you must do it. Because you have no skill shots, avoiding skill shots while still hitting with your full combo is relatively easy. Once you get your Tear of the Goddess, start using your Q to last hit when your opponent is not near. Charge it as fast as you can, but beware of your mana level. You always want to have at least 140+Current Rune Prison Cost in mana in case of a gank or tower dive. Use it to QWQ said ganker/towerdiver while you run away from them. Rune Prison then immediately Flashing over the ganker or vice versa can get you out of most ganks.

Mid Phase: At this point you should have a least a Tear of Goddess, Boots 2, Glacial Shroud, and Catalyst (Get this core before finishing the items). You are not yet hard to kill, but you have at least 25% base CDR (You should be getting Blue Buff), and your damage is at its relative peak here. Stay in the back of team fights. Pretend you are a physical carry. Hit the squishiest person near you, or kite whoever is going after your physical carry the best you can. Remember: You still die very easily. Wait for a clump of enemies or for you to be focused before popping your ult. Your combo is QWQEQWQE etc. Hitting R in place of W or E whenever you find it to be a good opportunity. Only lead with W if you need to hold someone in place while running away or chasing.

Mid-Late to Late Phase: You should be tanky by now. Once you have your core 4 (Banshee's, Frozen Heart, Boots 2, Archangel's), go for items I listed as “Other Items.” My personal default is WotA and Rylais. Through items and spell vamp, you can now survive quite a bit of focus fire. Same team fighting strategy as Mid game, but you now have more tankiness and less damage, meaning taking risks are more likely to pay off while also making you less of a threat in the eyes of the enemy.

Strengths
-Good damage at all stages of game
-Tanky Dps
-Excellent Kiting
-Good Sustained and Burst Damage
-Good AoE and Single Target

Weaknesses
-Weak CC
-Has problems hitting CDR cap without wasting CDR.
-Poor build flexibility
-Lowest damage of all AP carries
-Jack of All trades, and master of none

The reason Ryze is not currently mad OP is because his W is his only built-in CC. His damage is good, but other mage carries fill the same slot, do more damage, and provide more CC. His advantage is doing everything adequately while still being a tanky dps.

Even with that, I honestly believe that Ryze will be flavor of the month eventually and then get nerfed.

For the lols:
Tank Ryze: 2 Banshee's Veils, 2 Frozen Hearts, Merc Treads, WotA
Super Carry Ryze: Frozen Heart, Sorc Boots, 4 Rod of Ages
Legend of Ryze: Trinity Force, 4 Manamun's, Berserker Greaves

Sorry Grammer Errors and misstypes. Not Good engrish,

[abadguy]

TechnOkami, could you perhaps add a player group for those playing in SEA under Garena? You could put me in there, ign Smite Thy Enemy

[Dogmantra]

Don't be an idiot.

I think you just plagiarised all of my guides ;_;

[FantomFang]

Responded to a bunch of the points about Ryze, because I'm bored on my 12-3 AM desk shift. I don't main Ryze or anything, but I play him occasionally and have frequently gotten into discussions about him with my friend who mains him along with shaco.

Spoilered so you don't have to read the massive wall o' text unless you are daring.



This is as in-depth about Ryze as I feel like going. Ever.

Your most important stat is CDR. I don't care how you do it, but get 40%. Obviously the best route is Frozen Heart + Blue Buff, but sometimes that just doesn't come together, and late game you will be getting less than 10% CDR benefit from Blue Buff, so it will likely switch to someone else. Blue pot is a good substitute if you can't get it.

Masteries
Either 9/0/21 or 0/9/21. The 21 in support is non-negotiable. Too many good things. This is a choice between the Spell Pen and CDR or the Regen. The choice you are really making is late game or early game respectively. The CDR and Spell Pen will help you much more than the Regen will late game However, for sustainability the regen easily outmatches the spell pen and CDR. It will also change how much CD you need to get or live without. Ryze really like 40% CD, so leaving at 36% is not a nice place to be.


Aside from the regen, why would you need the CDR from blue buff? 10% from Q at lvl9, 15% from Glacial Shroud (Frozen Heart, while great, is one of the last priorities to finish IMO - should be 2nd to last item completed), 6% from Utility gives you a base of 31%. From there, you can easily get 6% from Blues, and 3% from Offense to hit 40% before Frozen Heart is finished. Or really, by that point blue pot comes into play and you can skip CDR from offense/runes entirely and hit 40% that way, allowing the 0/9/21 build. What is your opinion on that?



Runes
A standard caster page can work with Ryze, especially if you're looking to get 40% CDR (which you are). However, full mana Quints, Blues, and Yellows make you hit for about 100 damage at level 1 on a 3.5 second cooldown. That's much more spam-able than other 100 damage level 1 nukes, and once you hit level 2 that damage is half the enemies health bar style damage.

Really the only contest here is between CDR Blues and Mana Blues. CDR helps with itemizing and Mana helps early game with lane sustain and damage. I generally mix the two.


I know you lose out on a bit of damage, but wouldn't it be better to get a little bit of mana regen from your yellows to allow you to actually utilize that damage? Until you get the tear (and even for a bit after it) I find Ryze has serious mana problems if he wants to use his skills often, and flat or scaling mana regen yellows helps alot. All you sacrifice is 5 damage on your Q and instead gain 3.69 mp5 at lvl 1, if you go flat. That allows you to get one more Q off every 19 seconds over the norm.



Summoner Spells
Ryze really likes Flash, and he really likes Ghost. With these two spells and Rune Prison, even Singed will be on his knees as you eternally kite him. Ignite, Exhaust, and Teleport can also be good, but I have found the Flash/Ghost combo to be the most effective and useful in most situations.


Agreed. Since Ryze deals sustained damage and he doesn't really get any movement from items I find Ghost essential on him, and Flash is good on everyone for escape and initiations.



Items
Captain Obvious Items: Banshee's Veil, Frozen Heart, and Tear of the Goddess
Don't have these three items? Either you are doing it wrong, or your opponents have a really bad team comp.
Boot Options: Sorc Boots, Merc Boots
The question here is actually: How reliably can you keep yourself away from CC? This often depends on your team, so choose which best fits each situation. Don't get Ionian Boots of Stomping. You should be getting your CDR from other places.
Other Items: Void Staff, Rod of Ages, Will of the Ancients, Morello's Evil Tome and Rylais Crystal Scepter
Void Staff should be pretty obvious. It isn't for the AP, its for the 40% Spell Pen.
Rod of Ages is a good damage item, especially if you can substitute your Banshee's Veil for it. I usually find the MR and Veil passive to be more beneficial, but the damage from Rod of Ages is good.
Will of the Ancients is pretty amazing. Its even better if you can convince somebody else to build it. That really makes you dangerous in sustained and burst situations, as you can survive burst by being tanky + having 50% Spell vamp through ult and aura. In sustained situations, the same applies, as you still have a good amount of damage outside of your initial burst. And then during harassment, you can trade and come out ahead because you can spell vamp without having to use your ult. Will of the Ancients is fantastic on Ryze, especially if somebody else builds it.
Morello's Evil Tome is only on this list because it is a substitute for Frozen Heart if the enemy team is entirely magic damage. Hey, it happens every once in a while.
Rylais should be pretty obvious. The slow outweighs any other advantage other items have because it makes you the infinite kiter. Your Q is the shortest CD in the game that still gives the full 35% slow from Rylais instead of the 15% slow. Plus your passive means your will chain lock somebody constantly with Rylais and Rune Prison. The health and AP are nice too, but the slow is what you are really looking for.


I sometimes wonder how good of an idea it would be to go 2xCatalyst rather than Tear+Catalyst off the bat. I really want to get Rod of Ages on Ryze if I'm farming even remotely well (if I'm behind, I would skip though) and double catalyst gives ryze everything he needs early - damage, survivability, and sustain.



And now...
THE GREAT MANAMUNE VS. ARCHANGEL'S DEBATE
Not really. Archangel's Staff is just better. Sure its a little more expensive and takes slightly (slightly) longer to charge, but it'll give you around 160 AP endgame. That's more than a Deathcap (Yeah, yeah, deathcap passive. Not the point). Ryze still scales rather well with AP. Perhaps not as well as Malzahar, but that's probably for the best. Sure, his Q is a .2, but that is a .2 on what is effectively a 1.1 second CD. Plus when his ult is up that is also hitting in an AoE. His W still scales OK, and his E is still pretty rockin', but there is one thing you make not have thought of: Ryze's E reduces magic resist. So that 160 AP is dealing more damage than equivalent physical damage (which Manamune is NOT).

Why is this a debate? Get Archangel's. I personally don't build it until I already have my Frozen Heart and Banshee's, but get build your Tear into an Archangel's.


Yeah, I'm still not really sure which I'd prefer, but I rarely have to think about it as Ryze should finish that last.



Ryze on the Field: A Battle Guide.

Ability Ordering: Focus R, Q, W, E, with a point in E at 3.

Lane Phase: How well you do has a lot to do with whether you went for a early or late game rune and mastery page. AA to last hit. Hit them with Q whenever it is off CD. Don't be an idiot. Early on your combo is QWEQ. This will take away a ton of the enemy's health bar. Your level 2-4 damage is insane. If you are going to win your lane, this is when you must do it. Because you have no skill shots, avoiding skill shots while still hitting with your full combo is relatively easy. Once you get your Tear of the Goddess, start using your Q to last hit when your opponent is not near. Charge it as fast as you can, but beware of your mana level. You always want to have at least 140+Current Rune Prison Cost in mana in case of a gank or tower dive. Use it to QWQ said ganker/towerdiver while you run away from them. Rune Prison then immediately Flashing over the ganker or vice versa can get you out of most ganks.


That's why, at least in theory, I like the idea of putting off Tear until after you get a catalyst or two, and maybe even the Rod of Ages (if everything is going well). Catalyst start gives you a stronger early game, Ryze's weakest point, and it's not like it'll be difficult to charge tear later. Why charge tear when you still have mana problems when you can get it near the start of midgame and have no problem charging it up quickly at you leisure? Ideally, I'd be thinking boots2/RoA/cata with tear after, or tear after first cata if early RoA seems unfeasible..



Even with that, I honestly believe that Ryze will be flavor of the month eventually and then get nerfed.


Ryze was actually a flavor of the month earlier this year, I can't remember if it was mid-summer or at the end of the school year in april/may. Checked - he had his Q nerfed April 26th patch, so it was before then. He was EXTREMELY popular in 2k+ elo then, to the point where I saw him 80% of the games I saw on streams, even to the point of him being banned occasionally. It was silly. You can partially blame his appearance on Elementz and his tier list, the likes of which results in so many bandwagons. :smallbiggrin:

[Math_Mage]

Holy **** I am terrible at this game. :smallsigh: No, it's not just solo queue woes, I am legit awful. On the menu: how to duolane Alistar without failing miserably (which should be freaking impossible, but somehow I manage it), jungle like I have a brain, and win my bloody lane instead of pissing away the advantage in a farmfest.

EDIT: Yes, blue buff is bad on Ryze late, you're in violent agreement with him. No, you don't want to delay your Tear by getting double Catalyst, because you're delaying stacks on it. Maybe if you're losing your lane hard. No, you don't need mp5 runes, you have more mana than you know what to do with and you should be backing for even more mana ASAP. Exhaust is the only summoner I would consider over Ghost/Flash, because Ryze is a sustained caster with no escapes.

[Volatar]

Holy **** I am terrible at this game. :smallsigh: No, it's not just solo queue woes, I am legit awful. On the menu: how to duolane Alistar without failing miserably (which should be freaking impossible, but somehow I manage it), jungle like I have a brain, and win my bloody lane instead of pissing away the advantage in a farmfest.

Sounds like you need a break from LoL. Take a couple days off to play some other games. You will come back and do much better, I promise.

[FantomFang]

EDIT: Yes, blue buff is bad on Ryze late, you're in violent agreement with him. No, you don't want to delay your Tear by getting double Catalyst, because you're delaying stacks on it. Maybe if you're losing your lane hard. No, you don't need mp5 runes, you have more mana than you know what to do with and you should be backing for even more mana ASAP. Exhaust is the only summoner I would consider over Ghost/Flash, because Ryze is a sustained caster with no escapes.

Mmkay. I probably just need to play a bit more Ryze then, because it has been a bit to be completely honest. And the MP5 runes were pretty much exclusively for the start of the game - sacrificing like 5 damage for the ability to use Q alot more often before the initial back (an extra Q every 20s seems pretty good to me).

And the double catalyst thing was really just something I've been running through my head. I don't know, it seems good to me, maybe I'll just test it out for myself and see if/how hard I fail. :smallbiggrin:

Also, why am I so freaking tired all of a sudden? I guess I was on a bit of a caffeine high when I wrote that wall of text but oh god I'm about to fall asleep now...

[potatocubed]

So, Tristana.

Is going AD a good idea, even though her abilities scale off AP? Can she be made into a hybrid? And if the answer to either of the above is 'yes', what sort of items should I be going for?

[Nargan]

So, Tristana.

Is going AD a good idea, even though her abilities scale off AP? Can she be made into a hybrid? And if the answer to either of the above is 'yes', what sort of items should I be going for?

AP tristana is a troll build. That is all.

EDIT: Okay, maybe it's not all. But she has 2 steroids that synergise well with AD- 2nd highest Aspd steroid in the game, and an attack range steroid. To use her AP moves you're sacrificing these 2 brilliant abilities.

[FantomFang]

So, Tristana.

Is going AD a good idea, even though her abilities scale off AP? Can she be made into a hybrid? And if the answer to either of the above is 'yes', what sort of items should I be going for?

AP Tristana can do one thing - blow up one person real good, and then run away. And then be useless until her ult+ignite is up again. It's hilarious to jump on someone, tag them with explosive shot + ignite and ult them away from you, and if they don't die immediately the DoT from both the explosive shot and ignite will likely finish them if they were an enemy squishy.

[TechnOkami]

TechnOkami, could you perhaps add a player group for those playing in SEA under Garena? You could put me in there, ign Smite Thy Enemy

Sure, but... what exactly does "SEA under Garena" mean?

[Morph Bark]

Riot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtjUc5GXY3E) in the Playground? :smalltongue:

Somebody better call Singed!

[Adumbration]

Does anyone know if killing the Lizard at level 1 has ever given enough XP for level 2? I was a little flabbergasted when I just tried it with Xin (to see if level 2 gank with red was possible) and it was about 7 xp short. Had to kill a little wraith to get level 2, which was annoying. (I may have to get an XP quint if I feel like doing it on a regular basis, maybe...)

[abadguy]

Sure, but... what exactly does "SEA under Garena" mean?

SEA refers to South-east Asia. Garena is a regional gaming company that has licensed LoL. So all South East Asian IPs have to play via Garena's overlay. Its like an Asian version Steam for certain MOBAs and FPSers.


Does anyone know if killing the Lizard at level 1 has ever given enough XP for level 2? I was a little flabbergasted when I just tried it with Xin (to see if level 2 gank with red was possible) and it was about 7 xp short. Had to kill a little wraith to get level 2, which was annoying. (I may have to get an XP quint if I feel like doing it on a regular basis, maybe...)

It doesn't. Red Buff camp only gives 260 base XP. with extra 5% from Awareness mastery it only comes up to 273 (hence you were 7XP short as you need 280 to advance to Lv 2)

The only way you can hit Lv 2 on Red Buff camp is either using TWO XP quints (to bring bonus XP gain to 9%) or have Zilean on your team (his passive boosts XP gain by a massive 8%, letting you skip over the Awareness Mastery totally if you so wish it)

[Nargan]

gamescom2011.leagueoflegends.com

games com ofc, it's good streaming, they have zenon and that british guy whose name I forget but he is a good caster :p

[potatocubed]

...that british guy whose name I forget but he is a good caster :p

Merlin?
10Merlins?

[Adumbration]

It doesn't. Red Buff camp only gives 260 base XP. with extra 5% from Awareness mastery it only comes up to 273 (hence you were 7XP short as you need 280 to advance to Lv 2)

The only way you can hit Lv 2 on Red Buff camp is either using TWO XP quints (to bring bonus XP gain to 9%) or have Zilean on your team (his passive boosts XP gain by a massive 8%, letting you skip over the Awareness Mastery totally if you so wish it)

Damn. Such an annoyance. Ah well, it doesn't take so long to kill a small wraith and if I start with Boots+3pots I can gank with nearly full health anyway.

[Eldariel]

gamescom2011.leagueoflegends.com

games com ofc, it's good streaming, they have zenon and that british guy whose name I forget but he is a good caster :p

FourCourtJester, I'd wager.

[Moonshadow]

So, Talon actually looks really interesting to me, but does anyone think that he's actually going to be much use in the Tanky DPS meta that's currently going around? Do you think he might be enough to start changing the meta again?

[TechnOkami]

SEA refers to South-east Asia. Garena is a regional gaming company that has licensed LoL. So all South East Asian IPs have to play via Garena's overlay. Its like an Asian version Steam for certain MOBAs and FPSers.

Righto. I've added you under the new heading, tell me if it looks fine.

[Makensha]

I won't answer anything that has already been answered yet.




I know you lose out on a bit of damage, but wouldn't it be better to get a little bit of mana regen from your yellows to allow you to actually utilize that damage? Until you get the tear (and even for a bit after it) I find Ryze has serious mana problems if he wants to use his skills often, and flat or scaling mana regen yellows helps alot. All you sacrifice is 5 damage on your Q and instead gain 3.69 mp5 at lvl 1, if you go flat. That allows you to get one more Q off every 19 seconds over the norm.
While Mathmage did answer this, I do want to note that with a full Mana page, you are not likely to run out of mana. 278 mana might not seem like a huge improvement, but for some reason it really helps. Also mana regen yellows got nerfed, which indirectly makes flat mana better.


Yeah, I'm still not really sure which I'd prefer, but I rarely have to think about it as Ryze should finish that last.
Really depends on how well you are doing at what you are going to fill those last two slots with.

That's why, at least in theory, I like the idea of putting off Tear until after you get a catalyst or two, and maybe even the Rod of Ages (if everything is going well). Catalyst start gives you a stronger early game, Ryze's weakest point, and it's not like it'll be difficult to charge tear later. Why charge tear when you still have mana problems when you can get it near the start of midgame and have no problem charging it up quickly at you leisure? Ideally, I'd be thinking boots2/RoA/cata with tear after, or tear after first cata if early RoA seems unfeasible..
I rarely have mana problems on Ryze. Besides, I never mentioned which item of the three I build first. I have built Tear, Catalyst, and Glacial Shroud first in various situations. Catalyst is what you build if you are losing your lane.

Ryze was actually a flavor of the month earlier this year, I can't remember if it was mid-summer or at the end of the school year in april/may. Checked - he had his Q nerfed April 26th patch, so it was before then. He was EXTREMELY popular in 2k+ elo then, to the point where I saw him 80% of the games I saw on streams, even to the point of him being banned occasionally. It was silly. You can partially blame his appearance on Elementz and his tier list, the likes of which results in so many bandwagons. :smallbiggrin:]
I was there. It was crazy, but not really Elementz's fault. He posted the updated tier list with Ryze as the number one Solo Queue and number two Draft Mode pick a few days before Ryze got nerfed. And he really did not get nerfed that hard, especially since they later increased the base damage of his Q. His early game is virtually identical, he just doesn't do quite as much damage late game.

[Eldariel]

Rawrargh, why is the only Ryze-build with decent stats I can come up with a damn two-Banshee build (http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Ryze/?items=29,76,5,70,94,29&runes=11,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,32,32,32,32,32,32 ,32,32,32,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,1,1,1&masteries=0000000000000003033000000000031040032031 301&level=18)? How else are you supposed to get enough MR to be remotely tanky?

[term1nally s1ck]

Unless the extra 20ish damage on Q is worth it to you, I'd just get QSS or FoN.

[Eldariel]

Unless the extra 20ish damage on Q is worth it to you, I'd just get QSS or FoN.

They don't give you 375 HP :smallfrown: (seriously, Ryze's biggest problem far as tankiness goes is that he doesn't friggin' have HP - RoA is the best HP item on him but if you build it you don't have room for enough MR or MPen)

[Dogmantra]

Rawrargh, why is the only Ryze-build with decent stats I can come up with a damn two-Banshee build (http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Ryze/?items=29,76,5,70,94,29&runes=11,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,32,32,32,32,32,32 ,32,32,32,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,1,1,1&masteries=0000000000000003033000000000031040032031 301&level=18)? How else are you supposed to get enough MR to be remotely tanky?

I once had Frozen Heart, Treads, Archangel's and three BVeils on Ryze.
THE OTHER TEAM MOCKED ME.

We still won.

[Makensha]

I once built 2 Frozen Hearts, 2 Banshee's Veils, Ninja Tabi, and Rylais.

BEFORE THE RYZE CHANGES. I was jungling. I ought to try jungling on nuRyze... probably go terrible.
We won btw.

[Eurus]

Rawrargh, why is the only Ryze-build with decent stats I can come up with a damn two-Banshee build (http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Ryze/?items=29,76,5,70,94,29&runes=11,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,32,32,32,32,32,32 ,32,32,32,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,1,1,1&masteries=0000000000000003033000000000031040032031 301&level=18)? How else are you supposed to get enough MR to be remotely tanky?

Huh, really? I would have thought the MR from the second bveil would be eclipsed by a dose of spell vamp.

[Eldariel]

Huh, really? I would have thought the MR from the second bveil would be eclipsed by a dose of spell vamp.

On any tanky character I strive for 3k HP, 200 MR and 200 Armor. This is as close as I could get without giving up something major. 200 MR so you don't get bursted down even by a lategame mage with penetration and 200 Armor so you can take some fire from dedicated carries and anyone but a dedicated carry mostly tickles you. Spellvamp on top of all that is fine and his ult gives him some and maybe someone on the team builds the Will but in that build I can't see him building it himself over anything.

[Eurus]

On any tanky character I strive for 3k HP, 200 MR and 200 Armor. This is as close as I could get without giving up something major. 200 MR so you don't get bursted down even by a lategame mage with penetration and 200 Armor so you can take some fire from dedicated carries and anyone but a dedicated carry mostly tickles you. Spellvamp on top of all that is fine and his ult gives him some and maybe someone on the team builds the Will but in that build I can't see him building it himself over anything.

Fair enough. I still wonder if Abyssal Scepter would be better since 350 health really doesn't sound like that much, but when your resistances are that high it's pretty significant and Scepter doesn't combo very well with Void Staff anyway.

EDIT: Or Guardian Angel, I suppose? Would be a bit of an odd choice, but at least you wouldn't have to worry about getting bursted down...

[Eldariel]

Fair enough. I still wonder if Abyssal Scepter would be better since 350 health really doesn't sound like that much, but when your resistances are that high it's pretty significant and Scepter doesn't combo very well with Void Staff anyway.

...375 HP is a ton. It's over 10% of your HP even on a tank. The tankiest types often use Sunfire Cape as their HP items; it gives you 450 HP. On someone like Ryze with low HP by default, even with HP runes and the other BVeil, it's still a 15% increase!


EDIT: Or Guardian Angel, I suppose? Would be a bit of an odd choice, but at least you wouldn't have to worry about getting bursted down...

GA gives you less MR and no HP. Also, no offensive stats. While it'd be useful you'd rather take it over an Armor item than an MR item.

[Winthur]

I adore the fact that Regi plays his tournament games in a baseball cap. :smallbiggrin:

[Arbitrarity]

Theorycrafting: Armor reduction

Since percentage armor reduction works off of current armor, efficiently applied armor buffs that are then removed, combined with percentage armor reduction, allows for massive negative armor. Because it gets me better numbers, this is with the next patch's proposed Sona/Soraka changes. Removing these means you replace Sona with Orianna/Taric/Morde, and lose 55 points of armor buff, which results in Yi having ~65 more armor in the end.

Specifically: Master Yi (83 base armor) with level 5 meditate (+300 armor), using 6 Thornmail, Hardiness, and straight Resilience runes (+643 armor). On his team are:
Galio (Bulwark, +90 armor)
Soraka (Astral Blessing, proposed +125 armor)
Sona (Aria of Perseverance, proposed +40 armor)
Orianna/Mordekaiser/Taric (+30 armor, Protect/Creeping Death/Shatter)
Aegis of the Legion (+12 armor in aura)
Total: 1323 armor

Enemy team consists of: (abilities applied in order they appear in)
Trundle (Agony, reduces 25% of armor, increasing to 50% over 6 seconds) (applied first, due to increasing nature) (-330.75 armor, current armor 992.25)
Nidalee (Bushwhack, reduces 40% of armor) (-396.9 armor, current armor 595.35)
Wukong (Crushing Blow, reduces 30% of armor) (-178.6 armor, current armor 416.745)
Jarvan (Dragon Strike, reduces 26% of armor) (-108.35 armor, current armor 308.4)
Stark's Fervor (-20 armor) (current armor 288.4)
Renekton (Slice and Dice, empowered by Fury, reduces 25% of armor) (-72.1 armor, current armor 216.3) (this is only true if Renekton can apply this within a second (ish) of Agony taking effect, which is difficult)
Black Cleaver (-45 armor) (current armor 171.3)


Setup: Yi begins meditating, is buffed by teammates. In last 2 seconds of shortest lasting buff, Nidalee drops trap, Trundle applies Agony (which takes effect prior to trap), Jarvan/Wukong apply Crushing Blow/Dragon Strike. Teammate with Aegis Flashes away to get out of range, Renekton (with full fury bar) Flashes into range, applying Starks, Slices through a teammate of Yi's, Dices through Yi, and uses Empowered Ruthless Predator to max out Black Cleaver.

Yi's armor: 171.3 - 330.75 (agony armor decrease over time) - 597 (armor buffs expiring) = -756.45 armor

Notice that due to the way Trundle's Agony drains constant armor over time, it actually pushes Yi's armor into the negatives when stacked with other sources of percentage reduction. For this reason, stacking armor on Yi results in slightly more negative armor than having no armor whatsoever.

[Eldariel]

Thinking in numbers:

Ryze without last item (http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Ryze/?items=29,76,5,70,94&runes=11,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,32,32,32,32,32,32 ,32,32,32,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,1,1,1&masteries=0000000000000003033000000000031040032031 301&level=18):
Overload: 140+44.09+281.2 = 465.29
Rune Prison: 200+132.27+175.75 = 508.02
Spell Flux: 130+77.1575 = 207.1575

Ryze with Banshee's Veil (http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Ryze/?items=29,76,5,70,94,29&runes=11,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,32,32,32,32,32,32 ,32,32,32,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,1,1,1&masteries=0000000000000003033000000000031040032031 301&level=18):
Overload: 140+46.34+311.2 = 497.54
Rune Prison: 200+139.02+194.5 = 533.52
Spell Flux: 130+81.095 = 211.095

Ryze with Rod of Ages (http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Ryze/?items=29,76,5,70,94,7&runes=11,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,32,32,32,32,32,32 ,32,32,32,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,1,1,1&masteries=0000000000000003033000000000031040032031 301&level=18):
Overload: 140+64.44+339.2 = 543.64
Rune Prison: 200+193.32+212 = 605.32
Spell Flux: 130+112.77 = 242.77

[Volatar]

gamescom2011.leagueoflegends.com

games com ofc, it's good streaming, they have zenon and that british guy whose name I forget but he is a good caster :p

FourCourtJester, I'd wager.

Nope. It's Deman (http://www.youtube.com/user/4Deman).

[Eldariel]

Millenium vs. TSM (http://gamescom2011.leagueoflegends.com/) right now! Biggest match thus far. Even if M lost Moma, they should make a game out of this.

[Math_Mage]

So, Tristana.

Is going AD a good idea, even though her abilities scale off AP? Can she be made into a hybrid? And if the answer to either of the above is 'yes', what sort of items should I be going for?

Her ability CDs are way way way too long to make AP a reasonable option. Straight AD, IE-PD-BT etc, is the way to go.


Rawrargh, why is the only Ryze-build with decent stats I can come up with a damn two-Banshee build (http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Ryze/?items=29,76,5,70,94,29&runes=11,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,32,32,32,32,32,32 ,32,32,32,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,1,1,1&masteries=0000000000000003033000000000031040032031 301&level=18)? How else are you supposed to get enough MR to be remotely tanky?

Abyssal Scepter? Good as a Void Staff against a moderate amount of MR thanks to Spell Flux, and frees up room for RoA.

[ZeltArruin]

So, anyone else insta-buy Area of Defect's new album QWER? If you don't remember who AoD is, they are the people that brought you D-Town. Lots of good stuff in there, though my favorite is King of the League, as it really captures the mindset of playing Jarvan IV.

Speaking of Jarvan, I miss being able to win games without trying, ala, pre-nerfs. Did anyone play him when he was secretly overpowered?

Also, ZeltArruin, NA server.

Also also, put some wards up.

[Qwertystop]

Well, step one is to not minimize :smalltongue:

Question: Do you play in windowed mode or fullscreen?
Question2: Have you filed a support ticket?

1: Fullscreen. I'll try windowed.
2: I submitted an error report in an odd window that popped up after the auto-quit. Is that what you mean?


On an unrelated note, I have everything in the Champions bundle. I feel that I am pretty good with Singed, Tristana, Skarner, Anivia, and Heimer. What roles should I work on, and what champions are good for them?

[balistafreak]

From what I've heard on the livestream:

A team goes Triple Wriggle's Lantern... and group up to take Baron at 22 minutes.

wuuuuuuuuuuuuuut

[Volatar]

1: Fullscreen. I'll try windowed.
2: I submitted an error report in an odd window that popped up after the auto-quit. Is that what you mean?


1:Yeah, give windowed a try. It fixes a lot of problems (and it captures the mouse, so you can't click outside of it or anything). I play in windowed mode myself because I have a 5:4 monitor, which gives me a reduced horizontal field of view when compared to widescreen monitors (which seems to be what the LoL field of view is designed for) so I run in 1280x800, rather than my fullscreen resolution of 1280x1024. I can see more :smallbiggrin:

2: No, try filing a support ticket through their website.

[Math_Mage]

TSM just ran circles around Millennium. Lots and lots of interesting objective trades happening, but TSM always got the last word.

[Eldariel]

TSM just ran circles around Millennium. Lots and lots of interesting objective trades happening, but TSM always got the last word.

Early on, M was holding up real well trading turrets for Dragons very efficiently giving them a two-turret lead early on but then they simply failed to keep the sidelanes pushed and lost their own turrets and thus the edge and then they effed up and it snowballed from there.

They still had alright game but then they got to that one fight where Soaz and Linak got picked off leaving them with no carries and it was GG. Lane shuffle triumphs again (funny part is, it was incidental; M was doing the 100% default European laning while TSM was expecting something strange so they accidentally managed to get Brand owning Jax).

[Douglas]

Her ability CDs are way way way too long to make AP a reasonable option.
Unless, of course, you're getting lots of kills. Then you can spam Rocket Jump.

[Math_Mage]

Unless, of course, you're getting lots of kills. Then you can spam Rocket Jump.

In this case you would be owning just as hard with an AD build.

[Silverraptor]

Could we add a Rune page check list to the OP? Please?:smallsmile:

[9mm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jkSaUaqeFU&feature=channel_video_title

Favorite moment: greater relics makes you bigger, so enter the Giant Moakai. Imagine full stack Cho?

[Arbitrarity]

What sort of checklist do you mean? By level 30 I'd expect people to at least have:
Arpen and Mpen reds
Flat Armor yellows
Scaling or flat MR blues
Arpen/Flat AD quints

These are all fairly cheap and general runes. Over time, I'd expect people to acquire more runes for their playstyles.
Reds might also include flat Armor, flat AD, AS, and flat MR
Yellows might include scaling or flat MP/5, Dodge, scaling Health, AS, and scaling Armor.
Blues might also include flat CDR, scaling AP, Mpen, flat mana, scaling MP5, AS, or flat Energy.
Quints may also include movespeed, flat Health, flat Armor, flat MR, AS, and mpen/flat AP, though flat defenses aren't as common for most characters.

[Dragero]

Just wondering: Is there anyway to quickly activate item actives without clicking on them? When in the middle of a teamfight, trying to find and click on the little dot that is the item is very annoying.

Also, full stack Cho + Greater relic sounds like great fun.

[Joran]

Just wondering: Is there anyway to quickly activate item actives without clicking on them? When in the middle of a teamfight, trying to find and click on the little dot that is the item is very annoying.

Also, full stack Cho + Greater relic sounds like great fun.

The number keys by default. Upper lefthand corner is 1, then 2 and 3 on the top row. Lower lefthand corner is 4 then 5, and 6, on the bottom row.

You can move items around the slots for comfort.

[Math_Mage]

Just wondering: Is there anyway to quickly activate item actives without clicking on them? When in the middle of a teamfight, trying to find and click on the little dot that is the item is very annoying.

Also, full stack Cho + Greater relic sounds like great fun.

Item hotkeys are 1-6. Rearrange to suit.

[Arbitrarity]

Number keys. 1 does the first item slot, 2 second, etc etc. I tend to move item actives to 1-2, and put wards on 4. Potions are generally on 3.

[Dragero]

Oh, thanks a lot, I don't remember seeing that mentioned anywhere in game.

Now I'll finally be able to use items without stumbling everywhere.

[Spartacus]

As so much else (Space to center camera, s to stop, a to attack-move) it comes from WC3.

[Dragero]

As so much else (Space to center camera, s to stop, a to attack-move) it comes from WC3.

I used to play lots of starcraft, so I found a lot of similar hotkeys within my first couple days, but I never found the 1-6 ones, probably due to the fact that I don't always get items with actives.

[Ziren]

The third ranked match with a leaver on my team in a row...

I think I have finally lost all motivation to ever solo queue in ranked again.

[Neftren]

Well, I use one of the most demented hotkey setups ever.

WASD = Camera Movement
FRTG = QWER (in that Order)
E & C = Summoner Spells
Q = Stop
B = VOIP (Mumble)
Z = Shop
X = Recall
Alt = Ping
Spacebar = Lock Camera (also Snap to Champion)

V is... oddly enough, unused, as far as I can tell.

[TechnOkami]

Well, my interest in Dominion has definitely been renewed and fortified! But now, I'm making a list of all the super, SUPER sizable champions you can actually have while in a Dominion match.

-Cho'Gath. You thought he was big before...
-Nasus. Now with 10% more super.
-Olaf. BERSERKER RAAAAGE!!!!
-Renekton. Destruction incarnate!

Now, others who I personally would also be really scary when big?
-Alistair
-Annie
-Blitzcrank
-Brand
-Dr. Mundo
-Gangplank
-Garen
-Gragas
-Jarvan
-Jax
-Kog'Maw Blowing Up
-Maokai
-Mordekaiser
-Nidalee's Cougar Form
-Nunu
-Pantheon Ulting In
-Rammus
-Rumble
-Singed
-Skarner, 'cause hey, he'd be at the size we all want him to be. :smallbiggrin:
-Bird Form Swain
-Tryndamere
-Udyr
-Warwick

[term1nally s1ck]

Annie is ALREADY huge. Seriously. She's nearly as tall as Ashe and company, and much wider. O_o

[Dragero]

Well, my interest in Dominion has definitely been renewed and fortified! But now, I'm making a list of all the super, SUPER sizable champions you can actually have while in a Dominion match.

-Insert list of champs here-

Or teemo with that creepy bunny skin.

OH THE HORROR

[Reinboom]

Well, my interest in Dominion has definitely been renewed and fortified

Don't you mean garrisoned?

[Volatar]

Phreak went on the official forums and said the the Talon spotlight will not have him jungling and will not build a TriForce

It's a flipping sign of the apocalypse people D:

[Rhydeble]

Just watched the dominion video and it looks interesting.

Too bad about dat shoulder...

it just kept growing bigger and bigger.

[Daverin]

They won't display KDA by default in the corner, instead using a score that they tried to formulate based on objectives.

This genuinely may have caught my interest more than any other feature discussed or announcement made there. I can't recall the name, but there was a video, divided into parts, I saw on youtube discussing video game design (part of me feels I would've seen it here.) In it, they mentioned HoN (and what they said extends to all MOBAs) as a game with design that promotes divisive behavior and the overly individualistic form of competitiveness it has, instead of cooperation and team orientation. A big feature they noted is scores, and how they shape both how competitive we are and what we consider our goals to be. Thus, changing it to something that implies teamwork is, quite simply, a grade A move on Riot's part. I would give anything for them to be able to do something like that on Summoner's Rift, if it was accurately designed.

Also looks really fun. I'm excited for it now! And my urge to finally give in and end my crusade against Annie is rising. But only slightly. Plus, playing a little girl is just too unappealing to the RPer, game for fun and coolness mentality in me for my tryhard to overcome.

[Dragor]

Phreak went on the official forums and said the the Talon spotlight will not have him jungling and will not build a TriForce

It's a flipping sign of the apocalypse people D:

When I saw it, I was in shock! I can't crack out my Phreak impression and say "I like to play Zilean jungle." to my Skype friends... dang. :smalltongue:

I have this theory that Phreak will only give his support to new champion ideas if he can viably play them jungle w/ TriForce.

[Qwertystop]

I have everything in the Champions bundle. I feel that I am pretty good with Singed, Tristana, Skarner, Anivia, and Heimer. What roles should I work on, and what champions are good for them?

Reposting this as it seems to have been missed.

Also, Windowed fixedd it.

[Penguinizer]

I find that it's good to be able to play a support. Then again, I'd hardly bother because just about all the supports in the game (except Janna) are being nerfed to uselesstown if the suggestions we've seen are real.

[Reinboom]

I find that it's good to be able to play a support. Then again, I'd hardly bother because just about all the supports in the game (except Janna) are being nerfed to uselesstown if the suggestions we've seen are real.

Zilean isn't being touched.
Janna isn't being touched.
Karma isn't probably being touched.
Alistar isn't probably being touched.

All are decent or great.


Even with Soraka, Sona, Nidalee, and Taric:

Soraka is absolutely incredible. 100+ Armor is nothing to scoff at. That MR shredding is DEFINITELY not something to scoff at.

Sona will probably end up slightly weak for a bit. Eh.

Nidalee will most likely end up with a much larger rework.

Taric's ult is getting reworked / a new ult is being made.



That's far from "All the supports being nerfed to uselesstown" Very very far from.

[Math_Mage]

Reposting this as it seems to have been missed.

Also, Windowed fixedd it.

Support (janna, taric, soraka, alistar etc), and jungler (noc, ww, udyr, amumu etc).

[Daverin]

Let's see. Singed provides tank, Trist provides AD range carry, Anivia provides AP carry. All three are very good champs when you learn to play them; Trist may not be the best ranged carry, but she seems to be one of the most forgiving thanks to her kit, and as Ashe proves, you only need so much damage to do that job. Anivia is flat out one of the best AP carries, played correctly (which she is one of the most difficult.) Singed can be surpassed as a tank, but is unique in his style, one of the flat out hardest to kill champs in the game, and his damage output can be an actual factor throughout the entire game.

Skarner... I've not played with or around him yet, but reports imply he is poor right now. Still, I think he is "supposed" to be a tank or tanky dps, not sure which. Heimer is... well, I don't know what to call him. Heimer is a great lane holder and often lane pusher, but outside of that... yeah.

So, this leaves you needing, in terms of overarching roles, a good tanky dps, a good tanky caster, and a good support.

For tanky dps, I would currently suggest: Jarvan, Xin Zhao, maybe Wukong, Udyr, or if you can hit that skill level, Lee Sin. Honestly, though, it seems like most tanky dps are starting to get normalized in relation to each other; its just in comparison to the other roles that they are still causing much of the problem.

For tanky caster, there are quite a few: Ryze, Rumble, Swain, and Vladimir are all good options right now. Each has a very different playstyle, though. Ryze is a literal machine gun with his abilities, which I believe 0 other champions can do. Rumble has a kit made for teamfights; he has no targetted moves, instead using two aoes and a skillshot, which amongst other things, means you won't need to deal with derping around with clicking the right champ (which feels like it has become more of a problem lately.) Swain is truly his own playstyle amongst casters: He has no real poke due to his unsafe range on abilities, and cannot really juke or escape a teamfight (although if only getting ganked, he can escape by correctly using his Q and W.) In fact, given his range, I have a different technical role for him: melee with a ranged attack. Due to his ultimate, his place is right alongside the tank in the center, trying to focus down the priority while staying alive with his life return on his ult, and the invariable tankiness you will build on him (his AP scales fantastically, so you can get similar results with hybrid items that other casters may need full AP items to do.) You also can help protect your carry with your kit. Vlad is... Vlad. You try not to die during early laning, eventually get your low CD heal&nuke, and go to town. If you are in trouble, trollpool away and hope they do not have a Swain who is good at landing his W. Have a very powerful ult for teamfights, and just... do what Vlad does. I can;t say much more, as I have not played as him, except maybe once, and his kit is just an odd assortment.

For support, the best, I think, are Janna and Alistar (although the latter is a support tank, technically.) I also love playing as Taric, and he may be getting changed up shortly, including his ultimate, which can only be a buff, so keep your eyes on him.

There are technically more roles and subroles to go over, but I find these to be the "archetypal" roles that you must get down before you delve too much deeper.

EDIT: Oh yes, jungle! WW for safety, Xin for great ganks and safety, Trynd for great ganks and some counter counterjungling measure (thanks to his W, which only can be cast when an enemy is nearby, thus acting as an alarm of sorts), and Noc for all around goodness, or so it would seem.

[Raistlin1040]

Ryze is a literal machine gun with his abilities, which I believe 0 other champions can do.Disclaimer: Ryze is not a literal machine gun.

[Volatar]

Disclaimer: Ryze is not a literal machine gun.

You are right, he is more like this:

http://images.wikia.com/fallout/images/3/31/Supermutant_Overlord.jpg

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Skarner... I've not played with or around him yet, but reports imply he is poor right now. Still, I think he is "supposed" to be a tank or tanky dps, not sure which.

He doesn't do anything well enough to promote him over every other tanky deepster in the game. Also, his reliance on spamming means he's horrifically mana-dependent for a melee character.

[Volatar]

Finally got around to watching the full Dominion game video. Holy moly, it looks totally awesome!

[Daverin]

Meh, fine, not "literal." After all, he is not, in fact, shaped like a gun. At least none that I know of.

Aside from that, I think my suggestions still stand.

Also, Dominion just has me more convinced that Summoner's needs more environmental activity involved.

[Dienekes]

So I need to rant this for a second. Feel free to ignore.
So I was trying out Dogmantra Gunblade strategy for Pantheon I figure I'd replace my Bloodthirsters with that.

And it worked fantastically (thanks for bringing that to my attention by the way, the AP ratio is rather forgettable but gaining HP off of every spearshot I throw is fantastic). I carry this team hard and went 30/4/9 and was pushing the mid, getting their inhibitor. When suddenly my internet dies. I get back on and suddenly I can't see my opponents, at all. I just start running to my team thinking everything was going to be ok and suddenly the air starts attacking me.

I turn off the game and turn back on and they are pushing my team already destroying 2 inhibitors (apparently going through 4 towers while I was away). I get back and manage to push them away from our nexus towers pretty much by myself getting three more kills before dying, but the rest of my team respawned and pushed the last 2 away. When suddenly I lag up again and can't move.

They go in for the next attack and kill us I end with 33/6/10 possibly my best game ever and I lose it for us. I am so furious right now. All week I've been complaining about how many leavers I've had and now suddenly I'm the leaver. I could punch someone.

[Daverin]

I wish I knew whether or not I have reason to be angry at Riot for just how serious the bugs are for a d/c, or if it is something beyond their control. I can't help but lean towards the former, though. That sucks, I'm sorry you had to put up with that.

[abadguy]

Yeah the no respawn bug when you DC while dead comes to mind

[TechnOkami]

Don't you mean garrisoned?

It crossed my mind.:smallwink:

[Temotei]

Has anyone else had problems with Rammus's taunt? I noticed that when I used it, the enemy sometimes didn't attack me, instead opting to either keep attacking minions or just stand there doing nothing. It probably happened 1/5 of the time I used it, but it was still annoying when it happened.

[Lord Generic]

Did you notice if your mana went down when they ignored your taunt?

If so, it's probable Rammus just didn't use the skill. I've had it when champs sometimes don't seem to want to use skills. Although that's usuallly in the middle of a larger combo so eh

[Temotei]

Did you notice if your mana went down when they ignored your taunt?

If so, it's probable Rammus just didn't use the skill. I've had it when champs sometimes don't seem to want to use skills. Although that's usuallly in the middle of a larger combo so eh

Mana went down and the skill went on cooldown. Also, the champion that was targeted had the red-colored debuff on their person.

[FantomFang]

Oh my god.
OH MY GOD.
Just got done with the BEST game of LoL I've played in a while.

Meet Team TANK!
Jarvan jungle (me!), Malphite top, Mundo mid, Rammus/Alistar bottom
Smite/Teleport on Jarvan, all else Fortify/Teleport

We were ahead on turrets the whole game. Despite them going as much as 23 or so kills up on us, we used Fortify to hold back pushes and teleports to do the same, constantly hard pushing as much as possible. It was hilarious, we were all laughing sooooo hard in mumble as we did it. And apparently at least 3 people on the other team were premade, and were arguing in skype after the game ended because it boggled their mind as to how they lost.

Oh god, I'm still laughing now...

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af294/FantomFang/Capture-2.png

[abadguy]

All tank game eh? Nice. Reminds me of when me and my friends did the "China Army Rush" in Dota. Not sure exactly which version but it was the one just after they nerfed the healing ring so heroes can't chain heal (sort of like how the Heal spell in LoL works)

Wall of Reminiscing text
Team was: Neutral Creep and Global Heal Ulti Guy (Chen), Spider Guy (the one who could spawn spiderlings), Global Teleport Guy (who could create treants), Black Hole Guy (spawn Eidolons) and Keeper of the Light when he still has his Ignis Fatuus ultimate. Once Lv 6 we would crush mid lane all the way to the barracks and win when opponents quit in disgust. Plus we all packed aura items and healing ring, plus Chen's ulti also healed all friendly player units. Good times.

[Giant Panda]

On a side note, Solo Mid Soraka is viable and effective in PUB's. I outlaned, outzoned, out-creeped Annie, and killed her twice by ten minutes, whilst retaining nigh-full health and mana.

[Cheesegear]

When did Jarvan get bad? Or did I just get stomped by LeBlanc? That doesn't normally happen. That being said, I haven't played J-IV in a while, is it me, or is his banner-damage radius smaller? :smallfrown:

Anyway, who else for AD Tank?

[Adumbration]

7-2 for Fx vs fnatic, at the moment. (http://www.own3d.tv/live/27904/Intel_Extreme_Masters_League_of_Legends) Very interesting stuff.

[Giant Panda]

7-2 for Fx vs fnatic, at the moment. (http://www.own3d.tv/live/27904/Intel_Extreme_Masters_League_of_Legends) Very interesting stuff.

I was watching that, but the steam just started freezing every two seconds for me. Assuming it's my connection, so meh.

[Eldariel]

I was watching that, but the steam just started freezing every two seconds for me. Assuming it's my connection, so meh.

Use the Justin.tv Stream (http://www.twitch.tv/esltv_event2_hd); it has less viewers so it doesn't freeze nearly as easily.

Tank Karthus is the best Karthus, btw. And next game will be CLG vs. SK!

[Maeglin_Dubh]

When did Jarvan get bad? Or did I just get stomped by LeBlanc? That doesn't normally happen. That being said, I haven't played J-IV in a while, is it me, or is his banner-damage radius smaller? :smallfrown:

Anyway, who else for AD Tank?

I tend to go into some AD as Nunu once I'm a brick. Frozen Mallet and Atma's tends to be sufficient, and Blood Boil makes it actually viable.

[Winthur]

So SK should have definitely banned, uhhh, Hotshotnidaleegg.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=248978&d=1313706413

[9mm]

Dear SK,

Do not give HotshotGG Nidilee.

regards,
Common Sense

[FireJustice]

There's some nice games to see

have not see Kog in a while in competitive, but playing him after his buffs he's a lot more scarier than before.

And Riot is gonna get pissed again, with 10 flashes and.... woo that kill on Gragas this second;

Edit - let's watch Elementz...

[9mm]

lawl Atmogs kogmaw.

[Winthur]

More like Atmallet Kogmaw.

[Nargan]

More like Atmallet Kogmaw.

AND PEOPLE LAUGHED AT MY ATMALLET BUILD, SAYING ATMOGS IS BETTER Q.Q

It was on J IV btw, which works well. I should be there instead of bigfat xD

[Arbitrarity]

Works better with Kog's 750 range, particularly considering it's a 30% slow.

[Silverraptor]

Oh my god.
OH MY GOD.
Just got done with the BEST game of LoL I've played in a while.

Meet Team TANK!
Jarvan jungle (me!), Malphite top, Mundo mid, Rammus/Alistar bottom
Smite/Teleport on Jarvan, all else Fortify/Teleport

We were ahead on turrets the whole game. Despite them going as much as 23 or so kills up on us, we used Fortify to hold back pushes and teleports to do the same, constantly hard pushing as much as possible. It was hilarious, we were all laughing sooooo hard in mumble as we did it. And apparently at least 3 people on the other team were premade, and were arguing in skype after the game ended because it boggled their mind as to how they lost.

Oh god, I'm still laughing now...

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af294/FantomFang/Capture-2.png

Mundo and Jarvin aren't tanks, but otherwise its a pretty solid team.

[Winthur]

Mundo and Jarvin aren't tanks, but otherwise its a pretty solid team.

Given how stretchy the definition of a "tank" lately is, I wouldn't say "Jarvin" isn't a tank. Mundo probably doesn't fit any definition though, other than the one where he "soaks a ton of damage".

[term1nally s1ck]

Jarvan is a fairly good tank.

Mundo is a Mundo.

[Arcanoi]

I'd honestly argue that at this point, after all his nerfs, Jarvan is a tank. He builds tanky DPS, because Pure Tank is inefficient on him, but after all of his nerfs, the damage simply isn't there for him. The usual defining feature of Tanky DPS is they can throw on tanky items and deal damage, but Jarvan can't really do that anymore.

[Joran]

I'd honestly argue that at this point, after all his nerfs, Jarvan is a tank. He builds tanky DPS, because Pure Tank is inefficient on him, but after all of his nerfs, the damage simply isn't there for him. The usual defining feature of Tanky DPS is they can throw on tanky items and deal damage, but Jarvan can't really do that anymore.

Well, I'd also argue that Jarvan can initiate and he can take a beating, hence tank.

I'd argue the prototypical tanky DPS usually can't initiate effectively, like Xin Zhao, Irelia, or Renekton.

[Winthur]

Jarvan is a fairly good tank.

Mundo is a Mundo.

Why is there not a mode that allows you to play multiple copies of the same champion? Mundo DPS, Mundo tank, Mundo AP, Mundo support and Mundo jungler.

And for me, Warwick is a tank. Udyr can be a tank. Garen can be a tank. I'm weird.

[term1nally s1ck]

In general, I'd say that a tank needs to have at least 2 of:

Good CC making him a target.

Good initiation

High durability.

Someone who is merely durable needs to do damage to be worth having the durability, hence tanky dps. If he can also initiate or CC regularly, he doesn't need to do much damage to be a big target (though it helps)

[balistafreak]

When did Jarvan get bad? Or did I just get stomped by LeBlanc? That doesn't normally happen. That being said, I haven't played J-IV in a while, is it me, or is his banner-damage radius smaller? :smallfrown:

Anyway, who else for AD Tank?

Jarvan vs. Leblanc is a pretty bad lane for you. She has all this ranged burst to murder you with impunity, and all you have is your stupid lance. They've nerfed base numbers and cooldowns but not range, so I think it's just you about the radius.


On a side note, Solo Mid Soraka is viable and effective in PUB's. I outlaned, outzoned, out-creeped Annie, and killed her twice by ten minutes, whilst retaining nigh-full health and mana.

Annie Disintegrate range: 625
Soraka Infuse range: 725

Problem: Annie's Disintegrate has a 4 second CD while Soraka's is 15 seconds. Solution: use your heal. Every time she Q's you, heal it off and laugh as she runs herself out of mana.

Problem: Annie has a superior AA range. Solution: use your heal. Again.

Problem: Tibbers combo. If this lands on you, I'm not even sure you'll have time to heal yourself up, your base HP is so low. Solution: I have no idea.

Tell the truth, if you managed to completely outlane an Annie, they might have just been bad. I mean, I had a really bad game last night where Annie in mid let herself be completely zoned out by Heimerdinger, ending a thirty minute game about three levels behind me (the jungler) and with a jaw-droppingly bad 20~ CS to her name. Oh, by the way, top and bottom lanes collapsed too.

God, sometimes I hate my teams.

[Eldariel]

Tell the truth, if you managed to completely outlane an Annie, they might have just been bad. I mean, I had a really bad game last night where Annie in mid let herself be completely zoned out by Heimerdinger, ending a thirty minute game about three levels behind me (the jungler) and with a jaw-droppingly bad 20~ CS to her name. Oh, by the way, top and bottom lanes collapsed too.

God, sometimes I hate my teams.

Maybe your teams were merely average and your opponents happened to be good?

[TechnOkami]

Ok, if Mundo isn't a tank, then what is he really and how should I build him??

[Science Officer]

Why is there not a mode that allows you to play multiple copies of the same champion? Mundo DPS, Mundo tank, Mundo AP, Mundo support and Mundo jungler.


5 Zilean best team.

[Giant Panda]

Problem: Tibbers combo. If this lands on you, I'm not even sure you'll have time to heal yourself up, your base HP is so low. Solution: I have no idea.

Tell the truth, if you managed to completely outlane an Annie, they might have just been bad. I mean, I had a really bad game last night where Annie in mid let herself be completely zoned out by Heimerdinger, ending a thirty minute game about three levels behind me (the jungler) and with a jaw-droppingly bad 20~ CS to her name. Oh, by the way, top and bottom lanes collapsed too.

God, sometimes I hate my teams.

The Tibbers combo happened once or twice, but I just saved wish for these occasions, and as soon as the stun wore off hit R, Alt-W to heal up. I grabbed an early catalyst to try to help the problem. It seemed to work well because I could deny her farming through zoning, so she couldn't build up much AP to spike me more than my healing. It was pretty close and I had to use flashes, though.

And yeah, she probably just sucked. Still, first blood solo mid Soraka made me feel all warm inside.

[Darth Mario]

Ok, if Mundo isn't a tank, then what is he really and how should I build him??

Depending on who you ask, Tank or Tanky DPS. It's really just semantics as to his role. Your build is probably fine.

[FantomFang]

Given how stretchy the definition of a "tank" lately is, I wouldn't say "Jarvin" isn't a tank. Mundo probably doesn't fit any definition though, other than the one where he "soaks a ton of damage".

They are all tanks if we build pure tank I say! Aside from my Sheen and all 5 of our Wriggle's Lanterns, we had nothing but items that added survivability. And IT, WAS, GLORIOUS!

EDIT: Also, I've never seen that avatar of yours Mario. It is also glorious.

[Mutant Bunny]

Depending on who you ask, Tank or Tanky DPS. It's really just semantics as to his role. Your build is probably fine.

Personally, I like the sound of spirit visage+mercs+atma+sunfire+FoN+warmog.

The guy comes built-in with 3 sunfire capes (against most enemies, burning agony is more effective than Amumu's despair: 100 is stronger than 24+3% on any enemy with less than 2500 HP, if my calculations are correct); he gets up in the enemy's face and smacks them with a combination of physical and magic damage over an extended period; his cleavers are moderately effective at peeling enemies off of your teammates. The one thing for which you can really criticize him is his lack of hard CC (I'd say that cleaver+ult can give him tolerable initiation).

[Winthur]

http://i.imgur.com/sASKB.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/MozaiK/useless%20junk/aggressiveplaystyle.png

[Dogmantra]

I'd honestly argue that at this point, after all his nerfs, Jarvan is a tank. He builds tanky DPS, because Pure Tank is inefficient on him,
Part of my definition of tank involves building primarily defensive items and damage as an afterthought while still remaining effective. I find it's rather strict but then it stops stuff like this.


I'd argue the prototypical tanky DPS usually can't initiate effectively, like Xin Zhao, Irelia, or Renekton.
If he's tanky enough, Xin Zhao can be the Enchanted Crystal Arrow. Except worse in every way and with a delayed stun.


Why is there not a mode that allows you to play multiple copies of the same champion? Mundo DPS, Mundo tank, Mundo AP, Mundo support and Mundo jungler.
You missed CDR/Spellvamp Mundo

[Winthur]

You missed CDR/Spellvamp Mundo

You missed Gunblade Mundo. What's wrong with you, my friend?

[Dogmantra]

You missed Gunblade Mundo. What's wrong with you, my friend?

Where do you think the spellvamp comes from?

gluttonface.jpg

[Winthur]

Where do you think the spellvamp comes from?

gluttonface.jpg

5 Gunblades doesn't leave enough for 40% CDR though. You can get Stompers but anything less than 5 Gunblades isn't a Gunblade Mundo.

Oh right, I'm stupid. 5 Gunblades, Ionians, CDR blues, blue buff. Solved.

[Joran]

5 Gunblades doesn't leave enough for 40% CDR though. You can get Stompers but anything less than 5 Gunblades isn't a Gunblade Mundo.

Oh right, I'm stupid. 5 Gunblades, Ionians, CDR blues, blue buff. Solved.

6 Gunblades! Swap out the Ionians, put in CDR masteries, grab blue buff, solved.

[Dallas-Dakota]

So my league of legends server status is ''Undefined'':smallconfused:

(On both US and EU west)

[TechnOkami]

So my league of legends server status is ''Undefined'':smallconfused:

(On both US and EU west)

Would you and how would you like this changed?

[Dallas-Dakota]

And now it's back to online, for some reason, I'm not complaining though.:smalltongue:

[Raistlin1040]

Is there a faster place to watch the Dominion Livestream? I'm really interested, but it's fairly laggy.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Depending on who you ask, Tank or Tanky DPS. It's really just semantics as to his role. Your build is probably fine.

So are you just not around these days, or do I just miss you constantly?

[Raistlin1040]

First thoughts about Dominion: AoE wins games. Blue Team just won that game because of Kennen, Amumu, and Annie. Because you want to spread out when you're capturing, AoE is going to give you the best way of defending. Phreak was talking about Gangplank, who is good at 1v1 fights, and can drop his ult from across the map to defend. I think Karthus is going to be really good on this map with his E.

It was really dynamic. Blue team was roflstomping early game, and were up by about 100 points, which I would consider grounds to surrender if I were Purple team. But then Purple Team came back and got up by about 40 points, only to lose in the last 100. After I realized how back and forth it was, I realized that there was never a point where one team was so far ahead that they couldn't lose.

Maybe I missed something, but it appears that all characters start at level 3 and with 1375 gold instead of 475, which leads to some ideas, like starting with a Tear or a Philostone or something. That said, because there isn't any laning, it doesn't seem like there's really opportunities to charge up a Tear, and sustain doesn't seem all that important because you will die a lot, even though the game is short (The game was approximately 20 minutes, and there were probably 30-40 kills for each side).

Edit: Phreak is also wearing sunglasses and a hat.

[Inhuman Bot]

New dominion items or whatever.


Prospecter's Blade: 20 damage 5% lifesteal: Increases health by 200: Does not stack with other Prospecter Items

Priscilla's Blessing: 25 HP/5 Unique Passive: 15% faster capture rate, does not stack with other capture rate modifiers; Unique Active, 30% bonus movespeed for 2 seconds

Lightbringer: 50% attack speed, 17% lifesteal. Passively grants vision of your target for 5 seconds

Ionic Spark: 45% attack speed. 250 Health. Unique Passive: Every fourth attack unleashes chain lightning, dealing 100 magic damage to up to four targets

Entropy: 275 Health + 70 attack damage. 25% chance on hit to reduce target's move speed. Unique Activate: Attacks reduce target's move speed by 30%. Attacks deal 180 true damage over 2.5 seconds. Effect lasts for 5 seconds. 60 second cooldown

Sanguine Blade: +60 damage, 15% lifesteal. Unique Passive: You gain 5 attack damage and 1% lifesteal. Maximum of 7 stacks

Kitae's Bloodrazor: 30 attack damage, 40% attack speed. Unique Passive: Attacks deal Magic Damage equal to 2.5% of the target's maximum HP

[Daverin]

Quick question. Are there any good items beside ghostblade for Garen that give CDR?

[Dogmantra]

Quick question. Are there any good items beside ghostblade for Garen that give CDR?

Ghostblade and Brutaliser stack.

This is something you should know and abuse.

[Mutant Bunny]

Quick question. Are there any good items beside ghostblade for Garen that give CDR?

Spirit Visage is the only other CDR item besides the boots that doesn't involve mana, and it would boost your passive healing a bit. I'd say... try to get an ally to grab soul shroud if you really want CDR. Otherwise, there's not a lot you can do other than steal blue buff from your mage.

[Daverin]

Which brings me to my next point, how bad would an item with AD and CDR be?

Also, SV might not be a bad idea. I actually consider it a nice counterpart to sunfire, which I still see as a nice item for Garen. Looks like its time for me to look into formulating a cheap but effective build tailored to him...

EDIT: Err... wow. Never thought of that, Dog. Thanks for the tip! And for some reason, I keep thinking Brutalizer does not have the CDR even though I've looked at its tooltip now at least half a dozen times...

[TechnOkami]

Well, now I know why the Brutalizer is a good item on Renekton. I thought it was just for the extra damage... apparently not.

[Daverin]

I'm not going to lie; that realization about Brutalizer could have a dramatic effect on my formulations for my "cheap win" item build goal.

I wish it would be calculable, on average, how much AD you get an equivalent of when you get ArPen. Maybe how much additional damage can be gained for certain values of armor, to get an idea?

[Volatar]

Just watched a game of Dominion played by all Rioters. Was very, very exciting. One team picked a pretty standard comp (inc Morgana, Urgot, Amumu), while the other went for mostly assassin types (Leblanc, Jax, Noct). At the beginning, the assassin team was losing, as the standard team comp was much better at holding points. At one point Morgana held a point against 3 attackers successfully, and then later held the same point against 4 for long enough for backup to arrive (and her team to capture another point while the assassins were distracted. Amumu showed his ability to defend points really well also. Late game the assassins came back and were able to win though, once they started snowballing a bit.

Looks WAY exciting and fun.

[Mutant Bunny]

Which brings me to my next point, how bad would an item with AD and CDR be?

Also, SV might not be a bad idea. I actually consider it a nice counterpart to sunfire, which I still see as a nice item for Garen. Looks like its time for me to look into formulating a cheap but effective build tailored to him...

EDIT: Err... wow. Never thought of that, Dog. Thanks for the tip! And for some reason, I keep thinking Brutalizer does not have the CDR even though I've looked at its tooltip now at least half a dozen times...

I think I mentioned this sometime in the last thread: the manaless types need another way to get CDR. I think some Riot person talked in some feed or other about a BFS/brutalizer item that boosted AD by 25%, but that... just scares me, and a 25% boost is what crit is for. Personally, I'd like to see either another item off of brutalizer or another item off of stinger. Maybe kindlegem+brutalizer for 300 HP, 25% cdr, 30 AD and 20 pen? The minute they introduce this, though, all our mana-less champions could become balance problems...

[Volatar]

The last game of the day is coming up soon, it will be Pirates vs Ninja's :smallbiggrin:

Take a watch! http://www.own3d.tv/live/8624/Riot_Games_High_Definition_Stream

[Pefkalos]

I think I mentioned this sometime in the last thread: the manaless types need another way to get CDR. I think some Riot person talked in some feed or other about a BFS/brutalizer item that boosted AD by 25%, but that... just scares me, and a 25% boost is what crit is for. Personally, I'd like to see either another item off of brutalizer or another item off of stinger. Maybe kindlegem+brutalizer for 300 HP, 25% cdr, 30 AD and 20 pen? The minute they introduce this, though, all our mana-less champions could become balance problems...

That would be the "BFF sword" mentioned by Guinsoo, I think people are hoping it'd be made only ability specific, so not working for auto attacks....

As for CDR, if you run scaling CDR blues, ionian boots and get a ghostblade that'll be 40% level 18.
As to garen, starting with a shield, getting boots, brutaliser then sunfire's is quite cheap and cheerful, and if you play well you can dominate most times solo top, even 1v2. Before going atmallet :P (thoguh this leaves you a little weak in MR but that's not a problem unless they're AP heavy or someone fed the mages...

[Daverin]

Am I the only one who thinks Garen needs a better attack animation? I know he doesn't really use it a whole lot in teamfights, but even he still needs to last hit during laning (after all, he can't kill champs in lane all day. :smalltongue:)

So, items I'm thinking of on him, not necessarily in line with my whole cheap to win concept:

Atmog: Yes, atmog. Its just a great combo, no if ands or buts about it. At the least, I'd get Atmas period.

Brutalizer and Ghostblade: As Dog pointed out, they stack with each other. That is 25% CDR right off the bat, which could potentially combine with things like CDR boots, SV, and CDR masteries. I seriously think what Garen needs is to be able to spam his abilities more; potentially being able to courage twice in a fight would be some serious tankiness.

CDR Boots: This one is hard to say, but after the previous conversation about Merc, I'm at the very least curious about it on Garen. He has his own slow wipe (although I think they may stack), which means it is all about hard cc: if there are too many, Merc's won't save you, while too few means it is pointless. Of course, 25 MR is nice, and despite what I've read, I don't think Garen can truly hope to survive a fight based on his own stats alone. But with CDR boots, combined with the above, you've got 40% CDR. Nice.

FoN: Nice MR, nice MS, and technically the health regen stacks with both his passive (for when it will still show up at that point) and Warmog's.

Randuin's: Assists Garen with his anti-carry status while closing the gap with armor, and provides more health regen for FoN.

SV: Hey, its fairly cheap MR and health, has CDR, and synergizes with his passive early game. Not actually a bad deal, I think.

Infinity Edge: Let's face it, Garen likes dps now. In fact, some guide I read discussed doing research that let him to believe dps was just better than tankiness on Garen. Me, I still like my tankiness, but I can easily see how that would work, surprisingly. He has poor late game scaling on his base, but great potential scaling on bonus, and W is just incredible self tankiness.

Also, does Garen's Q and E proc on hit effects? I could've sworn they did, but I'm not seeing it mentioned. If so, thinks like Mallet are good, but without proccing slow on spin I'd rather have Atmogs then Atmallet.

[ZeltArruin]

5 Zilean best team.

5 Karthus best team.

[Daverin]

5 Karthus does actually sound vile.

EVERYTHING WILL BE WORSE, THERE IS NO ESCAPE!!!

[Math_Mage]

Ok, if Mundo isn't a tank, then what is he really and how should I build him??

Tanky DPS. He just happens to be a tanky DPS for whom survivability items are really good because of his ult. He also has a ton of damage just for being Mundo. So if you build tanky with maybe a Youmuu's, there you go.


Am I the only one who thinks Garen needs a better attack animation? I know he doesn't really use it a whole lot in teamfights, but even he still needs to last hit during laning (after all, he can't kill champs in lane all day. :smalltongue:)

Haven't played Garen, but from watching him on stream, it doesn't seem too problematic.


Also, does Garen's Q and E proc on hit effects? I could've sworn they did, but I'm not seeing it mentioned. If so, thinks like Mallet are good, but without proccing slow on spin I'd rather have Atmogs then Atmallet.

Q almost certainly does, since it's an enhanced autoattack. E almost certainly doesn't.

[tribble]

are installment questions kosher here? Because I just switched to a new computer becacuse I'm moving off to college etc, and League of legends isn't installing. It's saying that the server can't liase with my computer through the firewall even though the firewall is set to allow the installer. What's going on here?

[TechnOkami]

Tanky DPS. He just happens to be a tanky DPS for whom survivability items are really good because of his ult. He also has a ton of damage just for being Mundo. So if you build tanky with maybe a Youmuu's, there you go.

Yeah, I usually build him as regeneration tank with an Atma's...

[Volatar]

are installment questions kosher here? Because I just switched to a new computer becacuse I'm moving off to college etc, and League of legends isn't installing. It's saying that the server can't liase with my computer through the firewall even though the firewall is set to allow the installer. What's going on here?

Try turning off the firewall alltogether. If it works, the firewall is indeed the problem somehow. If not...

[Ziren]

Let me tell you about that game I just played:

Our team: Olaf solo top, Morgana mid, Caithlyn and Morde (me) bot and a *drumroll* JUNGLE KAYLE.
Their team: Akali solo top, Gragas mid, Caithlyn and Kennen bot, jungle Warwick

Enemy team gives up at 26 minutes, with their Caithlyn saying: "pls don't just pick OP champions next time [...]" without any hint of irony

So, you reckon that we're going to see a jungle Kayle at the Gamescom tournament tomorrow? :smalltongue:

[Copacetic]

The last game of the day is coming up soon, it will be Pirates vs Ninja's :smallbiggrin:

Take a watch! http://www.own3d.tv/live/8624/Riot_Games_High_Definition_Stream

That was a great match. Ninja's made a awesome comeback. Just goes to show not-set-in-stone the match type is.

[Volatar]

That was a great match. Ninja's made a awesome comeback. Just goes to show not-set-in-stone the match type is.

No kidding. Out of all the games of Dominion I have seen (which is only a few of them I'll admit) every single one came down to the wire with seconds on the clock for both teams.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

That was a great match. Ninja's made a awesome comeback. Just goes to show not-set-in-stone the match type is.

How can I see it if I missed the livestream?

[Silverraptor]

Why is there not a mode that allows you to play multiple copies of the same champion? Mundo DPS, Mundo tank, Mundo AP, Mundo support and Mundo jungler.

And for me, Warwick is a tank. Udyr can be a tank. Garen can be a tank. I'm weird.

"Mundo multiplies how he Pleases"

:smalltongue:

[Eldariel]

And for me, Warwick is a tank. Udyr can be a tank. Garen can be a tank. I'm weird.

Far as I'm concerned, the word "tank" has lost all meaning and thus is not worth using. I've begun just talking about "CC bots", "Initiators" and "Bruisers" (solely as a term for anyone hard to kill). Seems to be more accurate than calling this or that a tank and then arguing what we're talking about.

[Copacetic]

How can I see it if I missed the livestream?

One can always try youtube. I have no idea, to be completely honest.

On the whole, I think Dominion is an excellent idea. Smaller play times means less leavers, more dynamic game play makes the game much more friendly on the beginner, and most importantly a minimum of farming means a minimum of frustration.

[Spartacus]

Whenever someone says "We have no tank!" I reply "We don't need a tank, we just need CC".

Sure, most of the best CC is on a tank, but still...

[TechnOkami]

"Mundo multiplies how he Pleases"

:smalltongue:

That sounds like something Mathmage should say. :smallamused:

[toasty]

Whenever someone says "We have no tank!" I reply "We don't need a tank, we just need CC".

Sure, most of the best CC is on a tank, but still...

Meh
AP Alistair, Annie, Ashe, Orianna, Morgana.

But I suppose most "tanks" are CC bots. :smalltongue:

[Spartacus]

Of course, on the tank side we see things like Not-AP Alistar, Amumu, not-AP Cho'Gath, etc.

[Gourtox]

What do you guys predict the Dominion Meta will be? It seems like heavy sustain champs and assasins do farely well, while tanks and support didn't fare as well.

EDIT: Also seems that squishy AP burst champs aren't that great either.

[Spartacus]

I see Warwick being one of those champs that doesn't do anything tricky like Teemo or Gangplank, but instead just walks around 1v1ing things all day. Jax seems similar.

[toasty]

I see Warwick being one of those champs that doesn't do anything tricky like Teemo or Gangplank, but instead just walks around 1v1ing things all day. Jax seems similar.

WW and Morde. My favorite heroes are now stealth OP. :smallbiggrin:

[Eldariel]

Meh
AP Alistair, Annie, Ashe, Orianna, Morgana.

But I suppose most "tanks" are CC bots. :smalltongue:

Janna is the best CC bot in the game. Also the best tank. And best AD. And best AP. And best hybrid. And best jungle (DEM GANKS!). And best looking.

[Daverin]

I daresay that Janna can "blow you away" with her awesomeness! :smalltongue:

(que throwing of rotten tomatoes.)

Back to Garen, how is this for a build idea: CC boots, Atmas, Warmogs, IE, Yomouus, and the most appropriate tank item? Maybe have SV in there during early game, at any rate. I swear, Garen's E needs to become proc on hit, because I now feel like it is his itemization options that are dragging him down right now. He needs lots of AD, I believe CDR is important, being his only limiter to ability use, and he is melee, I don't care how much he naturally has, he needs moar soak. This is not an easy combo to come across right now, but it would be easier if Garen could proc effects on E, which opens up some items, especially ones that have lifesteal.

[Eldariel]

I daresay that Janna can "blow you away" with her awesomeness! :smalltongue:

Her taunt should most definitely be "Make like the wind and blow outta here!"

[Volatar]

On Monday I will be taking a plane ride across the country. I will not be on League for at least 4 months, possibly not for 3 years.

It has been a great year with you all.

Farewell and thanks for all the assists.

[Spartacus]

O.o

Did not expect that.

[Mutant Bunny]

Just did two ranked games, both times loosing (by surrender; I still think we might have pulled out the latter with some effort)... but I'm forcing myself to get over my nervousness about ranked games. Maybe I'll even dig my way into the ELO netherworld before the season ends :smallbiggrin: I'm 1-3 solo queue, but my overall K/D is improving... slightly (though when your first two games are 0-18 together, there's hardly anywhere to go but up)

[balistafreak]

I am a terrible, terrible person.

I realized that Warwick was free this week, so I hopped on my smurf and did some Twisted Treeline. Boots/3 pots start, ending with Wriggles, Ionian Stompers, Chalice of Harmony (no mana runes arrrrrrrrrrrgh), Spirit Visage, Wit's End, Sunfire Cape. I was going to swap Chalice for Banshee's Veil as my last item, but the game always ended first. I max Q first and E second, completely ignoring W - it doesn't help you lane.

They don't know how to last hit, so I get ridiculously farmed, and they have nothing. They don't know how minion aggro works, so they run at me then end up going to 100 health from the minions alone, and then my boots let me kill them... letting me get more freefarm. They don't know the value of lane-time, so I end up getting five or even six levels above them. They go glass cannon with no magic resist, so Warwick percentage-based Qs demolish them. They overextend or attract turret aggro, and suddenly BAAAAAMMMM Warwick ultimate to murder them with the help of my team or said turret. Or sometimes I just ultimate to kill them, no biggie.

It gets to the point where I intentionally leave a champion alive for some time so that he continues giving me my E speed, letting me run ahead of their entire team to triple-kill ace them all.

I played four games. In three of them, I had a leaver on my team. Total deaths for all four games: 2. Total wins: 4.

I am a terrible, terrible person.

[Darth Mario]

On Monday I will be taking a plane ride across the country. I will not be on League for at least 4 months, possibly not for 3 years.

It has been a great year with you all.

Farewell and thanks for all the assists.

On Monday I will be taking a plane ride across the world. I will not be on League for at least 10 hours, possibly not for 7 days.

It will be a welcome reprieve from you all.

Farewell, and stop killstealing Amumu plox. This message entirely in jest, of course. Except for the plane time.

[Math_Mage]

On Monday I will be taking a plane ride across the country. I will not be on League for at least 4 months, possibly not for 3 years.

It has been a great year with you all.

Farewell and thanks for all the assists.

Aw. Have even more fun, then. :smallsmile:

[balistafreak]

troll Warwick smurfing

Quoting myself, because I just manned up and did a standard TT game as my level 30.

Sure, the enemy is more intelligent now, but for some reason having runes and masteries makes my laning even more stupidly easy - more healing off of Q means I can take more risks. I snowball for ridiculous awesome. Again.

And Blood Scent is freakin' OP maphax. Just saying.

[Math_Mage]

Warwick in TT

...is stupidly strong. His only real issue on TT is poor level 1 fight.

[tadrinth]

How are people building Tryndamere now that he's fury-based? He seems to get more benefit from attack speed early on. I've been starting with dagger+pot and building berserker's boots, zeal, vamp scepter, phantom dancer or IE. Stonewall's latest jungle vid for him runs attack speed reds and blues, armor yellows, and armor pen quints. I'm mostly playing 3v3, and I'm debating picking up attack speed runes (running armor pen, armor, and MR runes right now).

[Nargan]

How are people building Tryndamere now that he's fury-based? He seems to get more benefit from attack speed early on. I've been starting with dagger+pot and building berserker's boots, zeal, vamp scepter, phantom dancer or IE. Stonewall's latest jungle vid for him runs attack speed reds and blues, armor yellows, and armor pen quints. I'm mostly playing 3v3, and I'm debating picking up attack speed runes (running armor pen, armor, and MR runes right now).

Since the fury change I find he serves much better as a tanky deeps. Atmogs, Fmallet, I Edge is what I build on him. Expensive as hell, but he usually gets a lot of farm/kills.

[FireJustice]

I'm playing a lot of 3's latelly.
Singed still owns normals like a boss he is. Ofc it's my opponents fault, really.

One thing i noticed is new Trynd, man he's so abusable before level 6.
No more scary crits level 1, no more luck lifesteal early.

with a good lane buddy with a easy cc -target or even Xin tts, we harass and kill him soo easily, specially because ppl still build zeals, avarices and zerkers even when they do badly in lane and cannot get fed.

I don't know how to play him, but i would make boots, divine/ghostblade with some lifestal. and get that quicksilver sash so you dont die for DoT (ignite, singed poison) after your ultimate.

also, last hit. It's a basic and holy cow balls to the wall important that people don't take their time to practice

[Pie Guy]

I'm just de-lurking to say bye Volatar. I hope you can play soon. :smallfrown:

[Adumbration]

CLG vs. Millenium G2 starting. (http://iemgamescom.leagueoflegends.com/)
G1 went to CLG after Anivia got caught out by HotShotJaxGG and they just steamrolled their whole base from there. Quite surprising, considering Millenium had 4-0 kills, 2 dragons and decent farm before that. Can't wait to see G2 picks/bans. Will they ban both Nidalee and Jax?

[Giant Panda]

Second CLG vs Millenium game is pretty intense.

[Dragonus45]

We should all jump on mumble to talk about the streams there. So much fun to do that.

[FireJustice]

Milenium got a comeback.
very exciting in the end.

[Giant Panda]

Very nice comeback there.

[Ziren]

Indeed, I was really happy to see such a major turnabout in a tournament match. In all the other matches I've seen, the team that was ahead at the 25 minute mark was also the oen that ended up winning.

[Moonshadow]

Karmaaaaaaa. No one uses her, they don't realise that she's OP as (censored), that she farms nearly as well as Sivir, and you can build her super tanky and still have amazing damage and utility.

Karma OP, and no one else knows it :3

[FireJustice]

Wow, unnusual lineup

Bans:
Nidalee, Jax, Orianna (milenium)
Gangplank, Lee Sin, Brand (CLG)

MILLENIUM
Allistar
Ashe
Trundle
Irelia
Cassiopeia (!)

vs

CLG
Zilean (!) (First pick)
Nocturne
Sona
Cho'gath
Kog'Maw

Milenium prefered Cassiopeia, they could go Annie, no?
or someone in their team really plays a hell of a cassy



LOL
server crash
good job riot :P

And nope, cassy didnt make a difference

[Dragonus45]

Luckiest zillean ever.

[Adumbration]

Damn, I just missed it due to IRL stuff. Who won?!

[potatocubed]

Are these streams being recorded anywhere, or is it a blink-and-miss-it kind of thing?

[Adumbration]

Are these streams being recorded anywhere, or is it a blink-and-miss-it kind of thing?

They'll be available at iemgamescom.leagueoflegends.com some time later. I think some of the yesterday's games are already up at the match highlights.

[Ziren]

Can anyone share a good Kog'Maw build? Just from looking at his wiki page, it seems to me that building AD seems to be better on him than AP.

I was thinking 21/0/9 with Flash/Ghost

Standard ranged AD runes (with MSpd Quints)

Final Items:

Triforce
CDR Boots
Black Cleaver
BV
Madred's Bloodrazor
Ghostblade

I'm sure that's a totally unoptimized build, how can it be improved? And in what order would one build the items?

[Moonshadow]

21 points in Offence is a bad idea. The damage boost only applies to base damage, so it's effectively useless.

And I think best build is On Hit build, and abuse his super long range to smite thine foes.

[Ziren]

21 points in Offence is a bad idea. The damage boost only applies to base damage, so it's effectively useless.

And I think best build is On Hit build, and abuse his super long range to smite thine foes.

Not according to the wiki (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Havoc)

[Daverin]

Yeah, that got changed a couple of patches ago, from 5% base to 4% total, physical and magical. It actually is pretty noticeable now.

[tadrinth]

The most popular Kog'maw builds seem to be the on-hit builds. Malady, Wit's End, and Bloodrazor. Nashor's also seems like it would be a perfect item, with attack speed and CDR to maximize your bio-arcane barrage uptime.

21 Offense was changed from 5% base damage to 4% total damage at some point, so it's probably worth it now.

I've also seen people build Kog'maw AP with an emphasis on void ooze. 9/0/21, max CDR, stack AP with some attack speed.

I don't think Trinity Force is ideal for him. Get Malady first.

[Eldariel]

OMG, ESM Finals SK vs. TSM G1!!! Who said Poke/Heal is boring? That game was awesome; like 30 minutes of almost constant fighting.

G2 starting (http://www.twitch.tv/esltv_event2_hd)

[ScionoftheVoid]

I would much rather build Kog'Maw AS than AD or AP. Get on-hit effects, including Bloodrazor, Wit's End and Malady. You'll want Void Staff because your damage is mostly magical, despite building AS. Merc Treads, 'Zerkers or Swiftness boots, depending on how well you think you can just stay out of the way of CC (and whether or not you think the tenacity would help if you ever got caught, Kog is very squishy). Might want a Frozen Mallet for the slow and some tankiness (as well as some AD, which goes well with lots of AS).

Masteries are either 21/0/9 or 9/0/21. Runes are probably AS reds, flat armour yellows, CDR or scaling MR blues (for keeping your W active or for a bit of defense) and flat health or movespeed quints, really your preference. You might want MPen reds and AS blues, if you that's easier to access.

Taking Ghost and Flash, because one slow does not count as an escape. You might get away without one or the other if you have a summoner spell that you always take, but generally they'll either be poor (Rally, Clarity, etc.) or poor for Kog (Exhaust and Ignite would be great if they didn't compeletely negate Kog's range advantage, for example).

I don't often play Kog (haven't bought him yet so I have only free week, but he's on my list right after the new Variety Pack bundle) and I'm definitely not a great player, but I think that's fairly solid advice.

[Winthur]

21 points in Offence is a bad idea.

Not according to Westrice. (http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=3153)

[Moonshadow]

Huh. Didn't realise 21 in Offence got changed >_> My bad.

[Ziren]

The most popular Kog'maw builds seem to be the on-hit builds. Malady, Wit's End, and Bloodrazor. Nashor's also seems like it would be a perfect item, with attack speed and CDR to maximize your bio-arcane barrage uptime.

21 Offense was changed from 5% base damage to 4% total damage at some point, so it's probably worth it now.

I've also seen people build Kog'maw AP with an emphasis on void ooze. 9/0/21, max CDR, stack AP with some attack speed.

I don't think Trinity Force is ideal for him. Get Malady first.

The main reason I wanted to put Trinity Force in there is to get the slow for my autoattacks and Mallet seemed like a poor choice on him. It wouldn't be my first item to build, though.

[Eldariel]

SK vs. TSM G2 (http://www.twitch.tv/esltv_event2_hd)

Bans:
TSM: Nid/Orianna/Ashe
SK: Jax/Alistar/Vayne

Picks:
TSM: GP/Cait+Brand/Trundle+Janna
SK: Irelia+Amumu/Soraka+Ezreal/Cassiopeia

I love this. Get to see Wickd on Irelia, there's a Trundle, there's an Ezreal and a Cassiopeia. Will be awesome.

EDIT: OMG OCE!

[Dada]

Kog maw:
From what I've seen in IEM so far, the pros go bloodrazor, zerkers, mallet as core.

EMS:
Cass OP!! Double kill! This will be fun.

[Ziren]

I would much rather build Kog'Maw AS than AD or AP. Get on-hit effects, including Bloodrazor, Wit's End and Malady. You'll want Void Staff because your damage is mostly magical, despite building AS. Merc Treads, 'Zerkers or Swiftness boots, depending on how well you think you can just stay out of the way of CC (and whether or not you think the tenacity would help if you ever got caught, Kog is very squishy). Might want a Frozen Mallet for the slow and some tankiness (as well as some AD, which goes well with lots of AS).


My build brings Kog'Maw to 1,5 attacks per second as well (with the Ghostblade active). I guess I'll just try both.

[Eldariel]

Kog maw:
From what I've seen in IEM so far, the pros go bloodrazor, zerkers, mallet as core.

By "pros" you mean Jiji :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: CandyPanda is so good! Look at those Mystic Shots perfectly between the minions to lasthit or poke Cait. That's unreal!

[Moonshadow]

So, I'm thinking of getting Lee Sin, because I enjoy characters that have more than 4 skills. Apart from Atmogs, what does one build on him?

[Eldariel]

So, I'm thinking of getting Lee Sin, because I enjoy characters that have more than 4 skills. Apart from Atmogs, what does one build on him?

Triforce. Wriggle's. FoN. Wit's End/Hexdrinker. Last Whisper. The usual Tanky Melee suspects.

[toasty]

Triforce. Wriggle's. FoN. Wit's End/Hexdrinker. Last Whisper. The usual Tanky Melee suspects.

You can also get a bloodthirster on Lee Sin

[Eldariel]

Ocelote casting the second Semis; awesome! Someone with competence. It's hilarious how are so clueless and blind these guys are, but getting some commentary that's broadly accurate would be awesome.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Karmaaaaaaa. No one uses her, they don't realise that she's OP as (censored), that she farms nearly as well as Sivir, and you can build her super tanky and still have amazing damage and utility.

Karma OP, and no one else knows it :3

Shush! Don't tell anyone!

Nobody plays her, and that makes me special!

[toasty]

Shush! Don't tell anyone!

Nobody plays her, and that makes me special!

HotshotGG used her once. It kinda failed. :smallbiggrin:

[Maeglin_Dubh]

HotshotGG used her once. It kinda failed. :smallbiggrin:

Logically, I am therefore more pro than he is.

Yep. Gonna stick with that.

[Eldariel]

HotshotGG used her once. It kinda failed. :smallbiggrin:

It bears mentioning this was Regi on a pre-nerf Vlad on toplane that's infinitely harder for Karma than mid :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: I approve of this (http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/news/champion-ip-price-reductions-jax-teemo-and-warwick) (don't have Teemo & Jax) and this (http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/news/champion-pricing-reduction-plan).

[Moonshadow]

Shush! Don't tell anyone!

Nobody plays her, and that makes me special!

I play her, that makes me special too :smalltongue: I particularly like how Deathcap boosts her passive :3

[toasty]

It bears mentioning this was Regi on a pre-nerf Vlad on toplane that's infinitely harder for Karma than mid :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: I approve of this (http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/news/champion-ip-price-reductions-jax-teemo-and-warwick) (don't have Teemo & Jax) and this (http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/news/champion-pricing-reduction-plan).

So far I think I've owned every champion they reduced the price for. But then again, I own pretty much all the champions. 52 owned, 29 not owned. 8 of those 29 I should buy, for one reason or another.

[term1nally s1ck]

That was literally the best thing Riot have ever ever done in terms of both community satisfaction, and maintaining their income.

They can silence the complaints about never seeing more 1350 or 450 champions, and still release every new champ at 6300 and 4800.

Actual business genius.

[Winterwind]

My build brings Kog'Maw to 1,5 attacks per second as well (with the Ghostblade active). I guess I'll just try both.That's sloooow. :smalltongue:
I usually end up with 2.2+ attacks per second with my build, which goes:
Dagger+Health Pot (though I've recently started using Boots+3 Health Pots instead)
Berserker Greaves
Mandred's Bloodrazor
Wit's End
Malady
(some defensive item appropriate for the situation, most commonly Banshee's Veil)
Hextech Gunblade (this one's a bit quirky, but I find it works quite well at this point: The bonus damage is massive thanks to the high attack rate, and the sustain from both attacks and the ultimate is wonderful to have)

It pretty much melts anyone without extremely, extremely high magic resistance within seconds.