[3.5]Anti-Archer Build

[Sudain]

Hello,

I'm looking for ideas on an anti-archer build. The idea is a raptorian archer(set for story reasons) that can give another raptorian archer(rapid shot, shooting while flying, etc...) a very good run for it's money. I plan on having monster cohorts through Handle Animal(any suggestions there would be helpful! :)). This build doesn't have to win, just make the competition challenging.

I've been thinking Arcane Archer(mmm... protection from arrows...) or Eldrich Knight. I do have access to a lot of books(not complete warrior) but I need to be able to present the book in the event I get asked to explain the paperwork.

Thank you guys in advance! :)

Sudain,

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

You might want to go divine for this. The Wind Wall spell is a level 2 spell for clerics with the Air domain, and it completely negates arrows and bolts. And after you've cast that, you're a cleric.

Alternately, you could do the same trick as a druid.

Really, the only thing you need to do to lock down an archer is get to melee range and keep him in your reach. Enlarging or using shapeshifting to make your reach bigger will help a lot.

[Saintheart]

Ring of Entropic Deflection's a useful item for this build.

There's also an Exemplars of Evil spell (I think Friendly Fire) which allows you to reflect ranged attacks back at the shooter or one of their buddies.

[Claudius Maximus]

There are a few items that just make archers absolutely cry. I don't think you need much else beyond these two:

In Magic of Eberron there is an air elemental graft called the Buffeting Fists. For 13000 gold and 4 hp you can deflect a number of arrows per round equal to 1 + your dex bonus. Good luck overcoming that without high levels and/or Splitting. Bonus points in this case for air elemental flavor on a raptoran.

In the Magic Item Compendium there is a shield crystal of Arrow Deflection. Get a buckler and buy the Lesser variety (2500 gp) for a +5 untyped bonus to AC vs. ranged attacks. The Greater variety (5000 gp) adds Deflect Arrows, which I think stacks with the Buffeting Fists up there.

[Groverfield]

Well placed Walls of Wind shut down archers quite well...

[ericgrau]

Two in 4 posts haven't read that the OP is also an archer? Try the deflect arrows feat or gloves of arrow snatching. Protection from arrows doesn't work on magic arrows, but it doesn't hurt just in case you get lucky. Ranged disarm can also be handy, probably even a bit OP in a duel scenario. I mean the 2nd fight you'll both have locking gauntlets, but there's only one fight. Improved rapid shot and ranged weapon mastery are fairly standard for a powerful archer.

Ok, tangent time. For that matter wind wall might be something if you could spontaneously cast it as an immediate action. As it stands even if you know ahead of time that you'll be fighting an archer, you need ideal range and terrain to keep you from spending a turn to make your opponent spend a turn to run through the wind wall; rare in games that fit on a battle mat. It is one of the worst spells in D&D and seems to only be good for saying "nya nya wizards can shut down archer builds too." I don't think any sane wizard ever actually prepares it unless he's level 11 and doesn't care what he puts in his 3rd level slots anymore. Even then it's a maybe, as it's only a hair better than leaving the slot empty. I think in an epic campaign I was so rich I put it on a scroll. Never used it the entire campaign.

[HunterOfJello]

Buffeting Fists [Air] Elemental Graft from Magic of Eberron costs only 13,000gp and allows, "the ability to deflect ranged attacks as if you had the Deflect Arrows feat" up to 1 + Dexterity modifier times per round. If you have 18 Dexterity, then you can deflect 5 arrows per round making archery an almost completely worthless tactic against you.

*edit*
The graft comes at the cost of a permanent 4 hp loss, but it doesn't take up an item slot, so you can still wear gloves and bracers over your arms while deflecting arrows like crazy.

[Baroncognito]

You might want to go divine for this. The Wind Wall spell is a level 2 spell for clerics with the Air domain, and it completely negates arrows and bolts. And after you've cast that, you're a cleric.

Alternately, you could do the same trick as a druid.

Really, the only thing you need to do to lock down an archer is get to melee range and keep him in your reach. Enlarging or using shapeshifting to make your reach bigger will help a lot.

Yeah, but none of that makes him an archer. In fact, I think if s/he uses Wind Wall, it also negates his/her arrows.

I vote going for the sniper route. Get ranged sneak attacks and Greater Invisibility.

[molten_dragon]

Not sure what your table's rules on homebrew are, but check out the link to the Hunter in my sig. You might like it.

[ILM]

Two in 4 posts haven't read that the OP is also an archer?
So? There's no archer class, and Cleric is widely recognized as one of the best ways to make an archer. Put up a Wind Wall or three, take Flyby Attack and Manyshot/Greater Manyshot, pop up from behind the wall, shoot, pop back in.

[mucco]

I always disliked Wind Wall. One can just pass through it, as it is a true wall and not something that moves with you.

The best way to protect from arrows, in my opinion, is the Wind Cloak soulmeld from Magic of Incarnum, but it's very feat intensive. With three feats you would be able to freely deflect two arrows per round and have DR 4/magic against the others (need to be level 12 though). Optionally, a single level Incarnate dip pushes the arrow deflected up to 4 per round (!) and gives you DR 8/magic against the others.

Or you could go Incarnate all the way. Chaotic Incarnates aren't half bad archers, but it's a messy mechanic to learn at first.

[Fouredged Sword]

I would prefer to just drop the whole archer thing and be a swordsage. Take the desert wind counter that lets you teleport next to anyone who shoots at you.

Disarm them with your first attack.

Beat them to death with thier own bow.

[ILM]

I would prefer to just drop the whole archer thing and be a swordsage. Take the desert wind counter that lets you teleport next to anyone who shoots at you.
Might not be such a smart move if said archer is flying though...

[Fouredged Sword]

There are lots of good ways to get flying yourself. Raptorians make good swordsages. No need to fall.

I think this build meets the requirements of "Anti archer" and "Kills people with a bow" requirement.

[Piggy Knowles]

Gust of Wind is also an effective way of dealing with flying creatures. You'll blow the opposing Raptoran back and give it a -4 penalty on all ranged attacks. If you're also an archer, then it will allow you to mess around without cutting off your own attacks.

That being said...

Look at anything that reduces movement. A Raptoran only has Average maneuverability, meaning that it must maintain at least half its speed as forward movement, or it drops out of the sky like a feathery rock. Whoops!

A Ranger/Psion/Slayer would make an excellent archer, and you'd have a lot of tools at your disposal to make an opposing Raptoran's life miserable. Entangling Ectoplasm? Control Air? Ectoplasmic Cocoon? Control Body? They all sound good to me! Not to mention the fact that you'd have access to a lot of excellent buffs to keep you excelling at the archery game.

[Keld Denar]

Pshhhhawww, Gust of Wind is for pansies. Real manly men use Boreal Wind from Frostburn. Multiple rounds of wind that does 1d4/CL and blows people back.

[Piggy Knowles]

Boreal Winds is a great lockdown against aerial creatures... but as a fifth level spell, it had darn well better be!

[The Dark Fiddler]

I think this build meets the requirements of "Anti archer" and "Kills people with a bow" requirement.

Except the swordsage part, since they don't have proficiency in bows, IIRC.

[Fouredged Sword]

The point isn't that you shoot the bow, but rather that you use the Fool's Grip (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67879) to beat them to death useing thier bow as an improvised melee weapon.

[The Dark Fiddler]

The point isn't that you shoot the bow, but rather that you use the Fool's Grip (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67879) to beat them to death useing thier bow as an improvised melee weapon.

But how's that an archer? :smallconfused:

[Silva Stormrage]

I still suggest going cleric. They make pretty good archers with divine metamagic persist for buffs and zen archery for + to hit.

Also wind walk is STILL incredibly useful due to this item.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a298/animefunkmaster/EnergyBow.jpg

It allows you not only to power attack with a bow (Super useful) but it ALSO allows you to fire arrows of pure force which I am pretty sure wind wall does not negate.

Get some nice persisted buffs (divine power, divine favor etc) a splitting bow and go to town :smallbiggrin:.

[Fouredged Sword]

I didn't say archer, I said "Kills people with a bow" I am being diliberatly cross concept to the idea with the goal of humor and thinking outside the box.

[Keld Denar]

FWIW, I approve of Fouredged's approach. It just screams "MacGuyver". It is still technically "killing someone with a bow", and the irony is, its their own bow, and the double irony is that he's NOT shooting the foe.

Its like, double plus irony, which as we all know, is quadratically greater than just plain irony.

[Glimbur]

The Wind Cloak soulmeld from Magic of Incarnum gives DR 2/magic versus ranged weapons, and it increases by 2 for each point of essentia in it. DR/magic is pretty pants at mid to high levels. The real money is in the shoulder bind: it deflects 1 arrow/round, and an additional arrow for each point of essentia in it. Access to the shoulder bind requires level 12 and a feat, or a 9th level Incarnate. A Chaos incarnate has some unique buffs to archery.. in addition to the Sighting Gloves soulmeld which are straight +damage to ranged attacks, insight typed. Consider a dip in Ranger or something to get bow proficiency. What level is this character supposed to be?

[Psyren]

Skypledged! It's a Raptoran-only, divine MotAO. If it's wind you want to play with, you really can't beat this thing; access to nearly every cleric and druid spell, control wind speed and direction as an SLA, summon air elementals, turn into one yourself, and at the capstone you get to summon a cyclone that surrounds and moves with you, which solves the issue of stationary wind walls. On top of that, it's full-casting and peanuts to qualify for.

[Yorrin]

Gust of Wind is also an effective way of dealing with flying creatures. You'll blow the opposing Raptoran back and give it a -4 penalty on all ranged attacks. If you're also an archer, then it will allow you to mess around without cutting off your own attacks.

In case you like this idea, it should be pointed out that Dragonfire Adpets can get Gust of Wind as an invocation at lvl1, meaning unlimited uses per day. The invocation adds a couple points of fire damage too, but it's too small to really be relevant.

[Sudain]

Wind Wall/Gust of Air/Air Domain

Maybe Druid/SkyPledged

* Get inside melee range and keep it there (Flying)
* Air Elemental grafts(Eberton) - 13k (Completely locks down arrows). :(
* Sheild Crystal of Arrow Deflection - 2.5k-5k
* Hover/WingOver
* Cut manuverabilty(look up air manuverabilty)



Try the deflect arrows feat or gloves of arrow snatching. Protection from arrows doesn't work on magic arrows
Thank you, I didn't realize that. You saved me from a large mistake.


I don't think any sane wizard ever actually prepares it unless he's level 11 and doesn't care what he puts in his 3rd level slots anymore. Even then it's a maybe, as it's only a hair better than leaving the slot empty.
Or battle field control wizards who had an arrow crit on them and leaving them in a near death state. True story. :)


I vote going for the sniper route. Get ranged sneak attacks and Greater Invisibility. Humm... I'll think about that, that's interesting.


There's no archer class, and Cleric is widely recognized as one of the best ways to make an archer. Put up a Wind Wall or three, take Flyby Attack and Manyshot/Greater Manyshot, pop up from behind the wall, shoot, pop back in.

Okay now I see the use use of the windwalls. Not sure I can use the cleric class, but it may work out. I'll have to put some pen to paper, thank you.


Look at anything that reduces movement. A Raptoran only has Average maneuverability, meaning that it must maintain at least half its speed as forward movement, or it drops out of the sky like a feathery rock. Whoops! Thank you! :)


Skypledged! It's a Raptoran-only, divine MotAO.... Really... Now I'm going to have to look at up... *Grin* Now I'm torn on the Skypledged and the Stormtalon, they both work quite well. Skypledged just keeps the other guy down, and the stormtalon just gets in their face and stays there.


What level is this character supposed to be? Currently 5th level - scaling as time goes on.

Great ideas, thank you all.

[Greenish]

Now I'm torn on the Skypledged and the Stormtalon, they both work quite well.Stormtalon is, well, not good at all. 10 levels of fighter is better than 10 levels of Stormtalon, and that right there should tell you all you need to know about the PrC.

[Sudain]

Stormtalon is, well, not good at all. 10 levels of fighter is better than 10 levels of Stormtalon

Why do you say that? Not saying your wrong; but I don't understand your reasoning.