(3.5) I need your help here (Rogue/duskblade)

[Mezmote]

Hey there playground. In a few weeks I'm gonna start playing in a longer campaign, starting at level 2. We expect to reach level 18 someday. Emphasis will be on roleplaying first and foremost, but we will do a fair deal of fighting as well. I'm gonna play a young man (16 years) and I would like your advice on feats and such. Future build hasn't been decided yet, but I'll try to reach Master of Masks (a reworked version that IS worth it) when hitting level 6.

So far my plan was to get 3 rogue levels (for the skills, sneak attack and evasion) and 2 levels of duskblade (cuz I like duskblade and it'll fit this character).

But I'm not quite sure on which feats to pursue. I was thinking Power Attack and Combat Expertise, for a more generic combat oriented guy that can trade BAB for different bonuses, but I'm still not settled. Something that goes with his personality would be prefered.

Allowed material is: All completes (except champion and classes from mage), PHB 1+2, MIC, and DMG 1+2. If it isn't on this list, it is not allowed =)
Stats are 18/16/16/14/12/13 (good rolls)

A little info on this boy FYI: He is a young and strong man, living in a small farming village. While most of the children his age only cares about gossip, work and love interests, his own mind wonders to other worlds where he slays dragons and rescue princesses. So he doesn't fit into this village at all, daydreaming most of the time or poking to the live stock with a wooden stick to play around. His old father was once a captain in a city guard and has survived several sieges on the city, and has now retired to the country. He brought his old chainshirt and a longsword with him, and his wife and children ofc. Once in a while, at night, the boy "borrows" his fathers sword and go outside to practice with it (even though he just swings it around cluelessly). One night he hears his fathers voice while practicing: "Why don't you stop swinging that sword around and give it to me before you poke more holes in the cows or yourself." Dramatic pause. "Here, let me show you how it is done." And so his father started to train him in the use of martial weaponry. After months of practice, something supernatural happens. The boy suddenly shoots colorful sparks from his hands while practicing alone with his father (Color Spray). Both are astounded and after thinking for a few days, they both decide that it is time the boy left the village to travel the world and seek adventure. He got his fathers longsword and chainshirt as a gift on his journey. He picked up part of a tight fence and strapped it to make a light wooden shield. He picked up a branch for a club and took a fishermans spear before leaving. So that is all he owns from the start.

That is basically where my character is standing. I'd like some advice on feats and skills to pick up when leveling. Don't expect an overabundency of magical items to be looted, nor normal magical items. The DM (and Co-DM) will make their own stuff that they find more fun and intriguing.

Ty for your time and energy.

[Vladislav]

Any particular reason you're leaving the Duskblade class one level before reaching the only ability that makes that class worth playing?

[Boogaloo Shiest]

I'm confused. At present, you're only a 2nd level Rouge right?

[Mezmote]

Because I'd rather have more skill points than getting Arcane Channeling. All I wanted from Duskblade was a few spells, the base attack and Armored Mage. I failed to mention that it'll be a low magic campaign, and magic is "frowned upon" in the world. People distrust mages and the few that perform services for the public is kept on a short leash. So no fancy "sprawling lightning or vampiric magic from the blade" every now and then. I'll try to pick spells that aren't too fancy or sparkly. Most important bit: I'll have to make him playable at all levels. And he is starting with 1 level of each class. Any comments on the feats?

[Fouredged Sword]

If you are willing to sacrifice BaB you could take a spellthief dip, a wizard dip, and then get masterspellthief for wizard spellcasting in light armor.

Then you advance wizard casting with unseen seer and other sneak attack / casting PRC's

[Mezmote]

If you are willing to sacrifice BaB you could take a spellthief dip, a wizard dip, and then get masterspellthief for wizard spellcasting in light armor.

Then you advance wizard casting with unseen seer and other sneak attack / casting PRC's





Allowed material is: All completes (except champion and classes from mage),



Not looking for build advice and I know it isn't optimized. Wasn't aiming for optimized. Was aiming for master of masks.

[Fouredged Sword]

If you are going sneak attack then stick to that. If you are going off duskblade you will not have a large amount of bab to play with for power attack.

Instead I would suggest you try to be a mini tripper. Improved trip and an triping weapon (spiked chain is a good one, worth EWP, retrain it once you get masks).

Drop foes to the ground from outside their reach and pound them with yout sneak attacks.

Then consider power attack to hit hard once they are triped.

[Vladislav]

You need to read the Duskblade class more carefully.

Armored Mage only applies to spells gained from the Duskblade class - therefore, on higher levels, becomes practically useless. Yay, you can cast a 1st level spell while wearing a chain shirt... uhm, so what?

Arcane channeling , on the other hand, applies to any spell you know. Even those gained from another class. Therefore, stopping at Duskblade 2 is, on the long term, basically two wasted levels.


So no fancy "sprawling lightning or vampiric magic from the blade" every now and then. I'll try to pick spells that aren't too fancy or sparkly.

The Invisible Spell (http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-1684-invisible-spell.html) feat may be just what the doctor ordered for you.

[Keld Denar]

So, if you aren't looking for optimization advise, why are you here asking for optimization advise? Just grab a bunch of feats like Weapon Focus and Power Attack and I think you'll be happy. Most of what people are going to tell you is probably not going to be allowed or not gonna fit what you seem to have in mind.

[Mezmote]

I think you are right Keld.

[Keld Denar]

I didn't mean offense by what I said. It was just an observation. You seem to have dismissed every point presented to you with little justification other than "that doesn't feel right to me". If we don't know what you want, we're pretty much just shooting in the dark. Us shooting in the dark is no different from you doing the same, and ultimately, I think you'll be much more satisfied with something you come up with than anything we suggest anyway.

So, Good Luck, Viel Gluck, Bon Chance, and all that jazz.

[Leon]

So, if you aren't looking for optimization advise, why are you here asking for optimization advise? .

Because not all advice has anything to do with optimization. In fact the board would be a better place if there was less focus on "optimal" and more helping people create interesting Characters.

[dextercorvia]

Look, you said no build advice, but I can't help it. Did you look at the Beguiler? One level there will get you the same spell slots as Duskblade2, Armored Casting, better skill points, and all you lose is that point of BAB and I suppose Combat Casting. The neat thing about Beguiler is that it doesn't lock you into the 2 spells known of the Duskblade. That means that when your Color Spray (back story) stops being useful (soon), you still have options.

As far as feats go, consider a pet. Obtain Familiar (If you get more casting) is a fun and flavorful way to abuse the action economy provide you with role play opportunities.

[Randomguy]

If you take practiced spellcaster (increases caster level by 4, but not above your HD, found in complete divine and complete arcane) or bump you caster level up to 5 using master of the masks PrC you would qualify for razing strike, which lets you sneak attack constructs and gain a small insight bonus to your attack roll and extra sneak attack damage constructs, but you have to spend a spell slot. This would be good flavour-wise for a rogue/duskblade.

There are also ambush feats, which let you trade sneak attack damage for other things, but you need minimum sneak attack damage to select those feats, and with only two levels of rogue you won't meet many of the prerequisites (unless you get the assassin's mask and your DM lets that count). None of them seem very worth taking though.

If you plan on dual wielding your club and your sword some two weapon fighting feats would be a good idea.

If you plan on casting offensive spells and not just buffs, battlecaster offence would be o.k. If you plan on casting a lot of touch spells, battlecaster defence should also be a good choice. (Both from complete mage)

A reserve feat might be a good choice if you don't want to spend spell slots, if you can find one that you qualify for and that will be useful.

Arcane strike would let you sacrifice spells for bonus damage, if you don't want to be seen casting spells but want to make use of the slots. (complete warrior)

Vexing flanker and adaptable flanker are both useful, if there are other melee characters in you party. (PHB2)

Telling blow would be useful if you have a very high crit. range.

Combat expertise will give you the chance to say "i'll hold 'em off" and actually survive.
Improved combat expertise even more so.

Combat reflexes is often useful, if you have high enough dex to make it worthwhile.

I'm pretty sure there's an obtain familiar feat, and if you get it there are tons of other feats to make your familiar useful in combat.

[Bovine Colonel]

Because not all advice has anything to do with optimization. In fact the board would be a better place if there was less focus on "optimal" and more helping people create interesting Characters.

But...he wasn't looking for advice for his character concept. He was looking for optimization advice. :smallconfused:

[Leon]

But...he wasn't looking for advice for his character concept. He was looking for optimization advice. :smallconfused:

Do tell where he says that.

From my reading of it



I'd like some advice on feats and skills to pick up when leveling


Is what he wanted. That is not asking for optimization help its asking for advice on feats and skills.

[Gwendol]

I really don't understand why you don't play a rogue/bard/Master of Masks instead of duskblade? You'll get plenty of skillpoints and the inspire courage ability easily offsets the BAB-loss. The spells of the bard are less lightning-in-your face and with all those skill points you can acquire the skill tricks needed for subtle spell-casting.

[Bovine Colonel]

Do tell where he says that.

From my reading of it



Is what he wanted. That is not asking for optimization help its asking for advice on feats and skills.

But...feats and skills are part of character optimization. :smallconfused:

[candycorn]

I'd like some advice on feats and skills to pick up when leveling.


So, if you aren't looking for optimization advise, why are you here asking for optimization advise?


Because not all advice has anything to do with optimization. In fact the board would be a better place if there was less focus on "optimal" and more helping people create interesting Characters.

"Helping people create interesting characters" isn't what the OP asked for. He asked for feat selection and skill point advice. The board can be many things to many people, but, in my humble opinion, it would be a better place if people helped answer the question.

And Keld has a point. The OP wants feat and skill advice, but then rejects that advice when given. This is largely because the OP has not fully defined what it is he's looking for. That would enable the feat/skill advice to have more relevance to his needs.

That said, feat and skill selection have squat to do with whether a character is interesting. You can do that, regardless of what feats you have. That's a function of how the character is PLAYED, not what's written on the sheet.

Character building is like choosing an instrument. Some may choose a piano, some a violin, some a flute. But all are capable of playing that instrument well, provided they practice. And all are capable of playing that instrument with emotion and feeling, provided they practice that also.

[Leon]

But...feats and skills are part of character optimization. :smallconfused:

Feats and Skills are part of Character creation of which optimization is a choice that the creating player will make in relation to those choices.
It is not a absolute given that occurs when someone asks help, most will simply want some help with a creation that they have not much experience with as is the result here.


As to interesting - how its interesting to them is how they make it, we should be helping with advice to make it so not dictating how you would see it interesting.
You could suggest 5 feats that you think would make for a good addition to the PC and the person receiving may make use of 2 of them as they decide that the others are not useful or fit with what they want it do.

[Mezmote]

I'd like to close off the debate as I've spent a few hours going over this thread, forum and my books at home and decided on a path take.

I'll heed the advice of taking at least 3 duskblade levels. It seems to make sense from every angle I look at it. Then maybe a 2nd level of rogue or a 4th level of duskblade at the end before going into MoM.

As for the feats, I've come to like some of the feats from Races of Destiny, and so I'll go with Able Learner and Heroic Destiny, grabbing Protected Destiny at level 3. Not the best feats out there, not the worst, but I like the idea of having feats that says he is destined for greater things =P

Able learner will also help me out in accumelating the right skills ranks at level 5, without having to use the last level as a rogue, thus advancing duskblade more. The first level in rogue doesn't feel wasted in my mind, as trapfinding and a buttload of skills never hurt anyone.

And I'll change some of the ability scores around so I can get a 16 in intelligence as well. More skills and languages =)

You were of course right when you said I wasn't clear enough in the OP. I'm sorry for that, and will strive to be more precise in the future =)

Thx for your time an energy.