Wait a tick?

[Doomboy911]

We've all been led to believe that with the ring of three wishes we couldn't wish more more rings because they're outside the price range. Why don't we wish they cost less and wish for more?

[Tyndmyr]

We've all been led to believe that with the ring of three wishes we couldn't wish more more rings because they're outside the price range. Why don't we wish they cost less and wish for more?

Why do that when you can wish for a candle of invocation to summon a genie?

[tyckspoon]

Because you're stepping outside the 'safe' list of Wish to do so (you're attempting to alter a fundamental property of one of the most powerful spells in the game.. good luck with that), which means what actually happens is entirely up to your DM. If you're in a game that doesn't already have free/cheap Wishes, making such a blatant attempt to get them probably isn't going to go well.

[Adamantrue]

Because you're stepping outside the 'safe' list of Wish to do so (you're attempting to alter a fundamental property of one of the most powerful spells in the game.. good luck with that), which means what actually happens is entirely up to your DM. If you're in a game that doesn't already have free/cheap Wishes, making such a blatant attempt to get them probably isn't going to go well. Suddenly I see a situation where the price of the ring numerically goes down by half, but the PC's Wealth suddenly gets recognized as being impure (say, two-thirds lead), and he can only sell it off for 1/4 the price.

[Tyndmyr]

Looks like the value of the gold coin is climbin', boys...because of the scarcity. Laws of economics.

It's a damned shame you can't make any money now...if only we could find out what started all the gold disappearing though, we'd take revenge on those rascals!

[Doomboy911]

Suddenly I see a situation where the price of the ring numerically goes down by half, but the PC's Wealth suddenly gets recognized as being impure (say, two-thirds lead), and he can only sell it off for 1/4 the price.

Yes but the ring says I can only wish for something below a certain price and now the ring is cheap but still powerful.

[Drachasor]

We've all been led to believe that with the ring of three wishes we couldn't wish more more rings because they're outside the price range. Why don't we wish they cost less and wish for more?

Err, you CAN wish for a Ring of Wishes.

It'll cost you around 36k experience, but you can do it (you must pay twice the experience cost of a magic item). There's no price range limit on the magical items a wish can create, but you do have to pay a hefty experience fee.

[Tyndmyr]

Yes but the ring says I can only wish for something below a certain price and now the ring is cheap but still powerful.

How I'd play it.

Sadly, what wish can do is summon a certain amount of value into the world.

Playing with numbers does not change that, any more than cutting gold pieces in half means you now have twice as much money.

Congrats on causing setting wide deflation.

[BillyBobJoe]

We've all been led to believe that with the ring of three wishes we couldn't wish more more rings because they're outside the price range. Why don't we wish they cost less and wish for more?

All right, since that isn't a safe wish, it now costs 1 CP less.

[tyckspoon]

Yes but the ring says I can only wish for something below a certain price and now the ring is cheap but still powerful.

Wish actually doesn't have a price limit for making magic items. The main limiter on it is XP; it takes absurd amounts of XP to Wish for magic stuff- double the normal crafting cost, +5000 for the Wish itself. Most of the market price of the Ring of Three Wishes is in fact paying for the 15,000 XP it takes to imbue it with 3 Wishes.

So- assume you use the Ring to Wish for another Ring. The Ring expends its imbued XP to power that Wish. It takes 5,000 to Wish, plus 10,000 to craft a Wish item with a Wish, and that's enough XP to Wish into existence a Ring with 1 Wish. Congratulations, you just wished for more Wishes.. at a 3-1 ratio.

Edit: Of course, there's always the old standby- the Wish searches the world for the location of another fully-charged Ring of Three Wishes and sends you there. It's in the hoard of a Great Wyrm/on the finger of an epic Arch-Lich/whatever. How you acquire it from there is up to you, good luck.

[noparlpf]

Wish 1: Knowledge of the metagame. (If I could Wish, I would Wish for this just on the off chance it worked. More wizards should be gamers.)
Wish 2: DM can't mess up your wishes like DMs are supposed to.
Wish 3: You gain an inherent ability to Wish with no XP cost and no other negative effects.

It's worth a shot. I think if a character wished for knowledge of the metagame I would give it to them just because it would be amusing.

[tyckspoon]

Wish 1: Knowledge of the metagame. (If I could Wish, I would Wish for this just on the off chance it worked. More wizards should be gamers.)
Wish 2: DM can't mess up your wishes like DMs are supposed to.
Wish 3: You gain an inherent ability to Wish with no XP cost and no other negative effects.

It's worth a shot. I think if a character wished for knowledge of the metagame I would give it to them just because it would be amusing.

And this is tantamount to 'I Wish to be the DM.' Which is probably going to result in "Granted, here's my notes, I've been wanting a chance to be a player for forever. Let me know when you've had enough."

[Keld Denar]

Same problem with anything else with a GP value on it. How much is it worth?

5000gp worth of diamond dust is not a fixed amount. Is that 1 karet weight worth? 2? 7? 1/2? Most of a diamond's value is related to it's cut. If I reduce the diamond to dust, its cut is now worthless, and diamond isn't really worth nearly as much, so in theory I should need a ton of the stuff to get to 5000g. Also, a single diamond may be worth a ton to one person due to being an heirloom or similar, and yet to another its just another shiney rock.

How much is something really worth to someone? Maybe your wish teleports a person in front of you who has EVERYTHING, and thus, more wishes are tired and boring. To him, the wishes aren't worth anything because he already has everything he could ever wish for, and two of everything else. That shouldn't change the actual market value of the ring though, which is what the price is based off of.

[noparlpf]

And this is tantamount to 'I Wish to be the DM.' Which is probably going to result in "Granted, here's my notes, I've been wanting a chance to be a player for forever. Let me know when you've had enough."

Well, yeah.
Or the DM might start poking at the miniature and freak out the character who now realizes that he's a small figurine made of lead.

[Flickerdart]

Well, yeah.
Or the DM might start poking at the miniature and freak out the character who now realizes that he's a small figurine made of lead.
If he's lucky. He might be made of plastic, or just an eraser with a smiley face drawn on it.

[Tyndmyr]

Wish 1: Knowledge of the metagame. (If I could Wish, I would Wish for this just on the off chance it worked. More wizards should be gamers.)
Wish 2: DM can't mess up your wishes like DMs are supposed to.
Wish 3: You gain an inherent ability to Wish with no XP cost and no other negative effects.

It's worth a shot. I think if a character wished for knowledge of the metagame I would give it to them just because it would be amusing.

You are aware that those are explicitly beyond the power of wish, right? The listed things are the safe things. Wishing for something other than the safe things is questionable...and subject to DM interpretation.

Wishing for MORE of the things listed than is allowed is...not going to work. It's not only inconsistent with the description of the power, it's not going to work with the game.

It's a poor plan, really. You can expect just about any DM to smack it down.

[Kansaschaser]

There is a way to get some really cheap wishes/miracles. Play a Cleric/Runecaster.

Here is how they can make runes:
Rune Craft
One Charge Rune = Spell level X caster level X 50gp
Multiple Charge Rune = Spell level X caster level X charges X 50gp
Charges Per Day = Spell level X caster level X charges X 400gp
Permanent = Spell level X caster level X 2000gp

Modifiers
Works when touched = Base cost
Works when read of passed (within 30ft) = Base cost X2

So, with these rules, you make this:

"Something" of Miracles
Cost to Create: 306,000 gold
Caster Level: 17
Spell Level: 9th
XP Cost: 37,240 xp
Activation: Touch
Abilities: Miracle (as the spell) when touched.

The more times you use the magic item, the cheaper each Miracle gets. After you have used this item to cast Miracle 306,000 time, that would basically come to 1 gold per Miracle. Now that's a deal!

[Tyndmyr]

Dweomerkeeper can get you a free Ex wish, no?

[Drachasor]

You can get as many wishes as you want much easier than trying to do this.

"I wish for a bit of an Efreet"
"I wish for the simulacrum spell to be cast on this bit as though I cast the spell"
"I wish the simulacrum had the same alignment as me and its only goals were to further my own needs and desires." (This is just an additional safety clause).

All that seems to be within the reasonable power of a wish.

[noparlpf]

If he's lucky. He might be made of plastic, or just an eraser with a smiley face drawn on it.

Yeah, back home we usually use d12s because otherwise the d12s all feel lonely and unloved and conspire to kill us in our sleep. That's how we lost Jim.


You are aware that those are explicitly beyond the power of wish, right? The listed things are the safe things. Wishing for something other than the safe things is questionable...and subject to DM interpretation.

Wishing for MORE of the things listed than is allowed is...not going to work. It's not only inconsistent with the description of the power, it's not going to work with the game.

It's a poor plan, really. You can expect just about any DM to smack it down.

Well, it does say you can try to wish for more things than the examples provided. Try being the operative word. For example, the party mage once Wished away all marijuana in any plane ever because the stoned cleric kept trying to smoke pieces of the woodling swashbuckler and we wanted a sober, useful cleric in the party.

[Ravens_cry]

True, but the DM has free license then to screw around with the wish. Sure, if you assume a DM who would allow anything, you can get crazy, but you don't even need a wish for that. Bestow Curse also has an open to alternate effects clause.

[enderlord99]

I think it would be awesome if someone tried to wish for a ring of 3 wishes with another Ro3W, and got a psychic warning from the first ring that he would summon his brother, but that neither of them would summon a third, because rings aren't supposed to summon each other. The warning should end with "...so please don't tell Charlie."

Plot hook: Find out who "Charlie" is and why the rings of three wishes are scared of him.

[Flickerdart]

True, but the DM has free license then to screw around with the wish. Sure, if you assume a DM who would allow anything, you can get crazy, but you don't even need a wish for that. Bestow Curse also has an open to alternate effects clause.

I don't think you can curse a Ring of Three Wishes to be cheaper.

[Ravens_cry]

I don't think you can curse a Ring of Three Wishes to be cheaper.
No, but you could curse a MagicMart owner to have an absurdly low Sense Motive score.

[Doomboy911]

Hmm alternate path. Lets just say for the sake of argument the rings cost 26k and the spell only allows 25k.

Wish 1 I wish for 25k

Wish 2 I wish for 25k

Wish 3 I wish for 25k

buy more rings

[KillianHawkeye]

Hmm alternate path. Lets just say for the sake of argument the rings cost 26k and the spell only allows 25k.

Wish 1 I wish for 25k

Wish 2 I wish for 25k

Wish 3 I wish for 25k

buy more rings

Except that the ring costs just under 100k gold, not 26k. Nice try, though.

[Drachasor]

Again, simulacrum an Efreet and you get 3 wishes each day.

[Hiro Protagonest]

If you wish for a ring of three wishes, you get one with all the wishes already used.

[Drachasor]

If you wish for a ring of three wishes, you get one with all the wishes already used.

I'd not be a jerk about it. I'd give them a ring with all but one of the wishes used.

[Flickerdart]

You could also use a deaf genie. Amuse yourself as the PCs receive, in order:

A ring of three quiches
A ring of free dishes
A ring of tree fishes

[Tetrasodium]

Well, yeah.
Or the DM might start poking at the miniature and freak out the character who now realizes that he's a small figurine made of lead.

Nah... even better:
Wish granted!. This figurine is your character rather than a simply a representation. It knows anything it sees or overhears here at the table. Any legal action it communicates to me that it wishes to take as a result of that knowledge will be taken in game It must also roll dice itself for any in game actions it takes and do so without outside interference.

[noparlpf]

You could also use a deaf genie. Amuse yourself as the PCs receive, in order:

A ring of three quiches
A ring of free dishes
A ring of tree fishes


I would love a ring of free dishes and a ring of tree fishes. I would open up a seafood restaurant somewhere in the middle of a continent hundreds of miles from the sea. Out back would be the fish orchard.

[Doomboy911]

Yeah the deaf genie sounds a little awesome

Also why not write down your wish for the genie?

You could always wish the ring was more powerful than make your wish.

[Flickerdart]

Yeah the deaf genie sounds a little awesome

Also why not write down your wish for the genie?

He's illiterate, too. I'm afraid you're going to have to bust out the Perform (Charades) skill.

[RedWarrior0]

He's illiterate, too. I'm afraid you're going to have to bust out the Perform (Charades) skill.
And immune to telepathy, for good measure.

Oh my God, that would be the most awesome session. You get three wishes from the most powerful genie in the world... but you need to Charades the wishes.

[Lady Serpentine]

I would love a ring of free dishes and a ring of tree fishes. I would open up a seafood restaurant somewhere in the middle of a continent hundreds of miles from the sea. Out back would be the fish orchard.

According to Ponder Stibbons, all you'd get is bananas.

[Doomboy911]

Hmm what about wishing for something with multiple prices.Like if I wished for a map that led me to a treasure exceeding the ring's price. Technically the wish is worth like 10 gold for the paper and the ink but the knowledge is worth more than what the ring would allow.

[LaughingRogue]

Hmm what about wishing for something with multiple prices.Like if I wished for a map that led me to a treasure exceeding the ring's price. Technically the wish is worth like 10 gold for the paper and the ink but the knowledge is worth more than what the ring would allow.

Any smart PC would mark that as a place you would never ever want to go.

[Glimbur]

Hmm what about wishing for something with multiple prices.Like if I wished for a map that led me to a treasure exceeding the ring's price. Technically the wish is worth like 10 gold for the paper and the ink but the knowledge is worth more than what the ring would allow.

Sounds like an expensive way to get an adventure hook. I hear that old men in hooded cloaks just hand those out in the corners of taverns. Of course, at that level of treasure it might be angels/devils appearing before you with an important quest. Still, I'd allow it via Wish's ability to cast lower level spells to do some Divination spell.

[Doomboy911]

Sounds like an expensive way to get an adventure hook. I hear that old men in hooded cloaks just hand those out in the corners of taverns. Of course, at that level of treasure it might be angels/devils appearing before you with an important quest. Still, I'd allow it via Wish's ability to cast lower level spells to do some Divination spell.

Crap so I could easily use a lower level spell to get the result. That almost defeats the purpose of the ring. Granted it's fine if I don't even have that spell but if I could've done it levels ago than the ring just made a big monkey out of me.

[Keld Denar]

Also why not write down your wish for the genie?

What if the genie was dyslexic? That could result in some very unfortunate wishes...

[LaughingRogue]

What if the genie was dyslexic? That could result in some very unfortunate wishes...

Maybe he grants wishes by sense of smell?

[Doomboy911]

Hmm so we have a blind, deaf, genie who can only make wishes by sense of smell. If I were to smack him he'd smack me back. Well at least I can use him as a shield.

[QuidEst]

And this is tantamount to 'I Wish to be the DM.' Which is probably going to result in "Granted, here's my notes, I've been wanting a chance to be a player for forever. Let me know when you've had enough."

Heh… I've always wanted to have a character wish to be the DM, and then DM in character. XP


He's illiterate, too. I'm afraid you're going to have to bust out the Perform (Charades) skill.

Any chance to throw the Bard a bone…


Anyways, if I were to DM this (and they really deserved it), I would let them wish for a Ring of Three Wishes through whatever whacky methodology they come up with. They get it, put it on, and suddenly find that they wish to be content with what they have, to retire to a pleasant countryside cottage, and to become a peaceful farmer. Roll up a new character.

[Doomboy911]

If I had to play this I'd probably give them the ring but have it be worn by someone. A fair way to handle the issue.