Vassal of Bahamut

[NOhara24]

Hello playground,

I was looking through the book of Exalted Deeds and I found a pretty interesting PrC, one that I thought about immediately dropping my one level in Gray Guard for and starting on, until I read one specific requirement:

PC must have slain a juvenile (or older) red dragon single-handedly.

All of the other pre-reqs are easy, I daresay even negligible (BAB of 7, for one.) except that one. How is a PC supposed to slay a Red Dragon by himself with a BAB of 7?! (I know someone in the playground could find out how it could be done, but I'm not willing to whip out the cheese, I like my DM and my group too much.)

But let's say with my current character:

Paladin 6/Grey Guard 1

STR:20
CON: 18
DEX: 12
INT:13
WIS: 14
CHA: 16

AC: 19
HP: 75

How long would it be until I even stood a chance in a one-on-one with a dragon?!

[Diarmuid]

Well, a Juvenile Red is CR10...which means a party of 4 7th level PC's should have a difficult time of it....so probably not for a while. And you'd likely have to spend almost all of your WBL on preparing yourself for that one fight.

Now, if you were able to catch it unawares or otherwise gain a significant advantage during the battle it could happen sooner. Your biggest problem is going to be the dragon's mobility.

[Drachasor]

Have your DM lower the requirement to something reasonable, imho.

[Diarmuid]

Why isnt that reasonable? Just because not all of them are easily met at the absolute minimum PC level doesnt make it unreasonable.

[Piggy Knowles]

You probably have a pretty good Charisma, so spending some cross-class ranks into UMD to activate a wand of Shivering Touch is probably the easiest way.

Of course, that requires you to get close enough to touch the dragon, which presents its own problems. Since you're UMDing anyhow, Spectral Touch could help.

Still pretty risky, and you're more than likely going to end up a pile of cinders. But it's probably easier for you than trying to one-shot him with some Spirited Charge/Shock Trooper/Leap Attack shenanigans at such a low level.

[Vandicus]

Arrows of slaying might be worth considering. It'd cost a bit, but is definitely doable. There are probably a number of more efficient magic items that could also help you. Eggshell grenades from OA can be used to blind the dragon if you decide to melee him instead.

[Drachasor]

Why isnt that reasonable? Just because not all of them are easily met at the absolute minimum PC level doesnt make it unreasonable.

Because the feat required doesn't line up with any of the other requirements at all.

[Diarmuid]

Do you mean the feat of having slain a red dragon, or the actual "feat" requirements?

Either way, I dont really see your point. Vows sworn to Bahamut make sense, and proving your devotion and worthiness of being one of his vassals by killing one of his most hated foes makes both seem in line with the PrC.

[Fouredged Sword]

I would drop the age catagory requirement by one bracket. Non-statistical requirements should stay as fluff unless there is a good reason to restrict the character. I see no need to prevent a character from entering the class once they meet the startistical reqs.

[Drachasor]

Do you mean the feat of having slain a red dragon, or the actual "feat" requirements?

Either way, I dont really see your point. Vows sworn to Bahamut make sense, and proving your devotion and worthiness of being one of his vassals by killing one of his most hated foes makes both seem in line with the PrC.

I mean having to slay a CR 10 dragon by yourself is a horrible requirement that also doesn't line up with the other requirements. CR10 would not be trivial at level 10, which means it would actually be really, really hard to even take all the levels of this PrC without going epic. It's madness.

Also having to kill a dragon by yourself is a pretty bad requirement given that it is a group game.

I have no problem with a requirement about killing red dragons, generally speaking, but this particular one is poorly constructed.


I would drop the age catagory requirement by one bracket. Non-statistical requirements should stay as fluff unless there is a good reason to restrict the character. I see no need to prevent a character from entering the class once they meet the startistical reqs.

And/or drop the "by yourself" requirement. That's pretty restrictive on group play.

[wuwuwu]

I would drop the age catagory requirement by one bracket. Non-statistical requirements should stay as fluff unless there is a good reason to restrict the character. I see no need to prevent a character from entering the class once they meet the startistical reqs.

So you want them to slay a Young Red Dragon? That's like the equivalent of pre-teen. That doesn't sound very exalted to me. Juvenile also doesn't sound pretty exalted, so it seems like they may have already dropped the requirement by an age category.

It really is a fluff requirement, though. Nothing says that the Juvenile (or older) Red Dragon has to use the same stat-block as given in the Monster Manual. You could tailor a custom monster to be an interesting fight for the would-be Vassal. You could use a Young Red Dragon and say it's a scrawny Juvenile.

[Drachasor]

So you want them to slay a Young Red Dragon? That's like the equivalent of pre-teen. That doesn't sound very exalted to me. Juvenile also doesn't sound pretty exalted, so it seems like they may have already dropped the requirement by an age category.

It really is a fluff requirement, though. Nothing says that the Juvenile (or older) Red Dragon has to use the same stat-block as given in the Monster Manual. You could tailor a custom monster to be an interesting fight for the would-be Vassal. You could use a Young Red Dragon and say it's a scrawny Juvenile.

Because a tough fight against a young red dragon capable of killing most people indiscriminately isn't "good" enough for you...however killing a SICKLY teenager red dragon ALSO capable of killing most people indiscriminately is truly "good?"

Seems like you're making a big deal out of what amounts to a semantic difference.

[Vandicus]

Drachasor, as tough as a CR 10 encounter normally is, when its a single creature of a type that he knows in advance, its not so difficult to adequately prepare to defeat it. Arrows of slaying, while expensive, are a more than adequate way to defeat this creature.

[Cieyrin]

It's a one off error as far as I can tell. A young red is CR 7, meaning it's a tough fight for a group, tougher by yourself at party level 7. I'm sure the designers probably just misread the table or forgot the power discrepancy in the Chromatics between Reds and the rest, who are around CR 6-8 for the juvenile category.


Drachasor, as tough as a CR 10 encounter normally is, when its a single creature of a type that he knows in advance, its not so difficult to adequately prepare to defeat it. Arrows of slaying, while expensive, are a more than adequate way to defeat this creature.

Even with planning, a dragon is a tough customer. Without planning makes it much, MUCH harder. That's just how dragons are designed.

[WinWin]

Not going to happen unless your DM makes it easy on you.

Dragons are notoriously under-CRed.

You're going to want flight, immunity to grappling (Freedom of movement), probably some fire resistance and hefty damage.

A flying mount could help, but may also prove to be a liability if it gets taken out too quickly. You don't want to turtle up, as the dragon will quickly overpower your paladin in a war of attrition.

Largely depends on what resources you have available (book resources and magical items). Certain Paladin spells can make a smiting charge from a hippogriff mount very effective, but unless you're geared for a 170 damage charge, it will likely take you down with 2 rounds of full attacks.

I'll tentatively suggest 9th or 10th level. Much of your success depends on your DM and the style of game they are running.

[Drachasor]

Drachasor, as tough as a CR 10 encounter normally is, when its a single creature of a type that he knows in advance, its not so difficult to adequately prepare to defeat it. Arrows of slaying, while expensive, are a more than adequate way to defeat this creature.

To make th save, the dragon just needs to roll a 6, unless the Paladin is going to be tossing the equivalent of +2 magical weapons that get destroyed on use around, then it's still a 9 or better to make the save.

[Fouredged Sword]

Dragons are under CRed, and are more powerful than would be suggested.

I would say that takeing on a CR10 dragon is a 50%/50% encouter for a level 10 character. Expecialy so if the character is a paladin based class. Full casters would have no problem, but a character that basicly is a horse and a lance holder will have serious problems.

Mix that in with the paladin code of honor preventing some of the better ways to kill it (Paralyse with magic and kill without mercy).

Really this is a unfortunate entery requirement that is very off the level of the rest of the abilities.

If you did keep the requirement of killing a juvinile red dragon I would make the requierment that you deal the final blow, rather than take the whole thing alone. That should be doable, if hard, as a 6-7th level group if you are smart.

[TwylyghT]

Well i guess you could get some potions to help you sneak, then catch it sleeping and cdg it with power attack and a heavy pic. That should make a fairly difficult dc even for a dragon. That certainly seems like unexalted behavior though.

[Cieyrin]

Dragons are under CRed, and are more powerful than would be suggested.

I would say that takeing on a CR10 dragon is a 50%/50% encouter for a level 10 character. Expecialy so if the character is a paladin based class. Full casters would have no problem, but a character that basicly is a horse and a lance holder will have serious problems.

Mix that in with the paladin code of honor preventing some of the better ways to kill it (Paralyse with magic and kill without mercy).

Really this is a unfortunate entery requirement that is very off the level of the rest of the abilities.

If you did keep the requirement of killing a juvinile red dragon I would make the requierment that you deal the final blow, rather than take the whole thing alone. That should be doable, if hard, as a 6-7th level group if you are smart.

I think you're mixing the Knight's and Paladin's codes now, actually.

As for the single combat bit, nothing says the party can't buff you till you twinkle like a Christmas tree, does it? :smallwink:

[wuwuwu]

Because a tough fight against a young red dragon capable of killing most people indiscriminately isn't "good" enough for you...however killing a SICKLY teenager red dragon ALSO capable of killing most people indiscriminately is truly "good?"

Seems like you're making a big deal out of what amounts to a semantic difference.

Well, as a real life example, I would be less morally opposed to fighting a scrawny (not sickly, just thin/under-muscled) high schooler than a healthy middle schooler, even if they were both huge bullies capable of beating me/everyone else up.

As I implied, I'd still be morally opposed to fighting the high schooler but less so than the middle schooler.

This is all ignoring, I guess, the fact that Red Dragon's probably mature differently than humans and who knows? A Young Red Dragon may be entirely capable of making decisions and looking at things the same way an adult human would. I wouldn't know, I've never read the Draconomicon ( which I figure would say whether they would or not)

[Zaq]

Either way, you're going to have to get lucky with a solid alpha strike if you want to actually pull this off, which pretty much means either writing it into your backstory or asking the GM to give you a nice stupid dragon to kill (really, you think you're the first one to find them and try to slay them?). And since a well-played dragon is unlikely to fall for your tricks unless you're really good at this (especially on the assumed Paladin chassis, though I freely acknowledge that you don't HAVE to be a Paladin . . . Paladins don't get a lot of tricks that are especially good for this), like I said, you're basically asking the GM to give you a stupid dragon. Since you explicitly have to do it single-handedly, the rest of the party really can't help you much, depending on just how strictly you interpret that wording . . . meaning that you're going to be dropping an anvil on a stupid dragon while the rest of the party watches (or, more likely, goes off to play Smash Brothers).

Yup. That's some gooooood game design right there.

[RedWarrior0]

More like there were two people that were separately working on the PrC.

First guy: "Okay, we need a tough dragon to be killed, for a class to be entered at level 7. How about something three CR over? That should work."

Second guy: "Okay, we need a tough dragon to be killed, for a class to be entered at level 7. How about a one-on-one fight? That should work."

WotC's amazing editing: "Herp derp let's just do both."

[darksolitaire]

Becouse of the requirement, we made a mental exercise of killing juvenile Red Dragon on my group, actually. It can be done early, permitting some of the following:

1) Spell-storing weapons.
2) Buffs from party wizard and party cleric.
3) Divinations from said party members, so that paladin can charge the dragon, which is flat-footed.

So basically, paladin uses magic. Yes, sad but true.

Oh, and if you roll poorly, you'll die.


Well, as a real life example,


No, no! No real life in my game! Hss!:smallfurious:

[Cieyrin]

Well, as a real life example, I would be less morally opposed to fighting a scrawny (not sickly, just thin/under-muscled) high schooler than a healthy middle schooler, even if they were both huge bullies capable of beating me/everyone else up.

As I implied, I'd still be morally opposed to fighting the high schooler but less so than the middle schooler.

This is all ignoring, I guess, the fact that Red Dragon's probably mature differently than humans and who knows? A Young Red Dragon may be entirely capable of making decisions and looking at things the same way an adult human would. I wouldn't know, I've never read the Draconomicon ( which I figure would say whether they would or not)

Dragon age categories do kinda mean different things than they do for anyone else. I mean, a Juvenile Red (going by the MM/SRD) 16 HD and 14s and 15s in mental stats, as well as being large. They're also between 26 and 50 years of age. None of this implies innocence and naivete to me. Dragons be nasty gentlefolk, who've been honing their talents for violence and mayhem since they hatched, given that a Red Wyrmling is CR 4 and probably give a 5th level party a hard time regardless. It may be different for the metalics, gems and the rest of the motley collection of types but the chromatics seem pretty hellbent on grabbing power and seeking methods of acquiring more through any and all methods that their draconic cunning can muster.

[darksolitaire]

There are example red dragon in draconomicon, starting from page 254. A juvenile red dragon will kill and devour a sentient being without aftertought. Young red dragon spends hours in given day imagining him torturing his nemesis. Very young red dragon extorts tribute from travelers and attacks if it is not given. A wyrmling red dragon burns houses and measures town for future domination.

[NOhara24]

Thanks for the advice, all. I'm pretty sure it's something that I won't be doing until much later anyway, unless I can convince the DM to drop the age bracket of the dragon. On the bright side, I do need to level a few times to get the skill points to meet the other requirements, but I'll make a note to have my character fleshed out to make an attempt at the matter at about level 10-12.

[wuwuwu]

There are example red dragon in draconomicon, starting from page 254. A juvenile red dragon will kill and devour a sentient being without aftertought. Young red dragon spends hours in given day imagining him torturing his nemesis. Very young red dragon extorts tribute from travelers and attacks if it is not given. A wyrmling red dragon burns houses and measures town for future domination.

In that case, I fully agree that dropping it to Young (or older) instead of Juvenile is an appropriate tweak.

[Vemynal]

imo more if not all the PrC's should have had those types of requirements instead of "take this feat, know this rank of these skills" etc.

Would have made people actually stick to the base classes more and made havign a PrC more of a status thing. Like a difficult achievement in those damnable videogames all u young kids play now adays ;)
(thats meant with humor, I'm 23 and on my 8th run through of oblivion lol)

[NOhara24]

In that case, I fully agree that dropping it to Young (or older) instead of Juvenile is an appropriate tweak.

If I hadn't already taken the Gray Guard PrC, I would be on the phone with the DM right now. But unfortunately, I've still got to take Sacred Vow and Vow of Obedience until I can even think about slaying a dragon. So by that time I'll be level 12, I'll be ready by then, I hope.

After reading more about the class though, I can see why WotC specified juvenile. The Dragonwrack ability (unlocked at level 4) is sick. If any evil dragon attacks and sucessfully hits, they take 2d6 normal damage, and 1d6 PERMANENT HP DAMAGE. Then at level 7 it goes to 3d6 normal damage, and level 10 it's 4d6 and 2d6 PERMANENT damage that can only be restored by a miracle/wish spell.

Between that, the Platinum Armor, Dragon Senses and all the other bonuses, I can see why it's a juvenile dragon must be slain. Why the BAB for the class itself is so low, I'll never understand.

[Vandicus]

To make th save, the dragon just needs to roll a 6, unless the Paladin is going to be tossing the equivalent of +2 magical weapons that get destroyed on use around, then it's still a 9 or better to make the save.

Which is why I recommend he use multiple. Hardly the most efficient method to deal with the creature(in terms of using magic items to do so), odds are the dragon fails a save with three of those arrows. Yes its an expensive cash tax on the player(which we can undoubtedly make cheaper with proper iteming), but it is certainly within the realm of a level 7 character, should they choose to take the PRC. He could also consider getting a holy/holy surge weapon to do a bunch of extra damage per attack. I believe that's within his price range and adds +5d6 damage to his strikes or so. The real problem I think is that we've got a paladin here rather than some other LG character. Besides the power level of a paladin, he's got some issues with some of the plans we could come up with to beat a dragon thanks to his code.


*EDIT
Really you want to net a sudden stunning weapon.

The DC at level 7 with your stats would be 15. If you tried at level 8 to beat the dragon it would be DC16 reflex. If the dragon fails he's really in trouble, because it has a stun time of 1d4+1 rounds.

[Drachasor]

he's got some issues with some of the plans we could come up with to beat a dragon thanks to his code.

No he doesn't.

[Vandicus]

No he doesn't.

Well I'd consider poison usage one of the possible plans, and as he can't use poison per the RAW.... Our options are therefore more limited by his code. Everything that increases his odds helps, and normally I'd recommend a dab of drow poison on his weapon to give the dragon another chance to fail a save.

*EDIT

Also any plans that involve decieving the dragon, and of course the DM's interpretation of what acting with honor means.

[JaronK]

Get a Wand of Shivering Touch. Then get'er'done!

JaronK

[Drachasor]

Well I'd consider poison usage one of the possible plans, and as he can't use poison per the RAW.... Our options are therefore more limited by his code. Everything that increases his odds helps, and normally I'd recommend a dab of drow poison on his weapon to give the dragon another chance to fail a save.

Agreed on poison...well, poison out of combat is definitely bad. The rules seem unclear on poison in combat. The two are quite different, imho.


Also any plans that involve decieving the dragon, and of course the DM's interpretation of what acting with honor means.

The DM is being an idiot if he doesn't let paladins use subterfuge in battle. That means not only can a Paladin never lead an army with any competency, but also he can't participate in armed conflict led by anyone who is competent. It's insane and requires that Paladin must be Lawful Stupid.

[wuwuwu]

I've got your plan.

Step 1) Cut down a big old tree, sharpen one end to a fine point.

Step 2) Bury/shrink/do whatever to conceal you huge spike. Make sure you have a way to make the spike suddenly appear (mechanisms that lift it out of the ground, magic way to unshrink it, etc)

Step 3) Buy potions of fire resist/get your fire resist high enough to make a red dragon HAVE to melee on you.

Step 4) Annoy a dragon enough that it chases you to your big spike, stand on/near spike until it dives you.

Step 5) At the very last second of it's dive, unshrink/lift/whatever the spike out of the dirt/your pocket/whatever

Step 6) Your dragon has been slain. If your DM says it wasn't slain "single-handedly" by you, while technically valid, he's kind of a mean guy.

I feel like that is a pretty heroic way to handle the thing. Not stupid heroic like ACTUALLY facing it in 1v1 combat, but classic heroic like [I can't think of any examples right now so maybe I'm wrong].

[NOhara24]

Well I'd consider poison usage one of the possible plans, and as he can't use poison per the RAW.... Our options are therefore more limited by his code. Everything that increases his odds helps, and normally I'd recommend a dab of drow poison on his weapon to give the dragon another chance to fail a save.

*EDIT

Also any plans that involve decieving the dragon, and of course the DM's interpretation of what acting with honor means.

Don't forget that I DO have one level in Gray Guard...so I can use poison and regain my paladin abilities after a cleric uses Atonement (Free of the usual XP cost.)

[Drachasor]

Don't forget that I DO have one level in Gray Guard...so I can use poison and regain my paladin abilities after a cleric uses Atonement (Free of the usual XP cost.)

First...
"Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents. "

That's technically not part of the list of things that immediately revokes your paladin-status. So you're fine in any case.

Further, poison is listed with lying and cheating. Seems like they are talking about poisoning someone outside of combat. This is a general behavioral guideline, not a straight-jacket about how you can handle the big bad when you are fighting him.

[Metahuman1]

Poison is good, make for additional chances to fail saves and go for Dex and Con Damage. The former to try and render it paralyzed (and it shouldn't have much Dex so that's Viable.), the latter to cut it's HP total.

It's a pity you can't retrain some of those Pally levels for Crusader levels, Warblade levels, or a dip into Crusader followed by Warblade. (If the DM will allow this, I recommend Crusader 1/Warblade 3/ Pally 2 Grey Guard 1, or Crusader 4/Pally 2/Grey Guard 1 or Pally 2/Warblade 4/Grey Guard 1. )

In the interests of getting into the class in time to take all 10 levels, ask your DM to wave the 1x1. This is 3.5 DnD, Not Pendragon or Conan the Barbarian.

[Cieyrin]

imo more if not all the PrC's should have had those types of requirements instead of "take this feat, know this rank of these skills" etc.

Would have made people actually stick to the base classes more and made havign a PrC more of a status thing. Like a difficult achievement in those damnable videogames all u young kids play now adays ;)
(thats meant with humor, I'm 23 and on my 8th run through of oblivion lol)

Pah, in my day, we had kits and racial level limits and we liked it! :smallwink:

[Archetype-]

Just to remind everyone, dragons are immune to Sleep and Paralysis. I wonder how that interacts with the application of the paralyzed condition at Dex 0... Any thoughts?

As far as I know, paralysis from Dex and/or Str damage/drain still paralyzes dragons despite their immunity to it. Shivering Touch on something with spell storing would be a good way to go.

I've actually gone through this process as well... but I was ECL 16 and facing a Very Old Red... alone. On top of that, I was half-dragon (silver) and primarily a Bard (DM house-ruled that I could ignore the "bards can't be lawful" deal) who blew a feat on Bastard Sword proficiency. I still managed to solo the bugger by playing smart and getting quite lucky (I mean very lucky). I've credited it to doing (most) the following:

1. Having a miss chance really helped. I cast Displacement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/displacement.htm) on myself as soon as I could. As you probably know, Dragons really don't care too much about your high AC because they can likely hit you anyways. A good miss chance is worth much more than its weight in gold.
2. High fire resistance or immunity. If Big Red can't hit you because you're not where you appear to be, he'll try to take advantage of your relatively low Reflex save and roast you.
3. Limit the dude's mobility. Fighting him in his lair is probably not a good idea as he's likely fortified the ever-living hell out of it. Keeping him on the ground outside is probably a better way to go. There's a couple spells in the Spell Compendium called Earthbind and Wingbind, the former being a 2nd level Sorc/Wizard/Druid spell and the latter being just Sorc/Wiz4. Getting an item that can one-shot one of those could help. Some creative manipulation of terrain might also be prudent.
4. Big healing items. With my Bard magic I was going through my 4th and 3rd level slots on healing like no tomorrow even with displacement. I did get very lucky with the numbers I was rolling for heals, but it helped swing the fight in my favor.
5. A good package of offensive buffs will go a long way. Weapon of Energy (cold), Dolorous Blow, and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful from Spell Compendium are a nice start. However you can get access to these, do it. Aside from that, the old stand-bys of Bulls Strength and Divine Favor will also help nicely. Blast him/her with every Smite Evil and Divine Might you have.

Just what I can think of off the top of my head. Is it the best? Probably a mix of yes and no, but it's what I would have done differently if I had the opportunity. Hope it helps.

[Person_Man]

FYI, it's a garbage PrC. It requires 2 pointless Feats (Sacred Vow and Vow of Obedience), and one semi-useful class feature (Platinum Armor) which can be replicated with normal enchanted armor. I would skip it.

[NOhara24]

FYI, it's a garbage PrC. It requires 2 pointless Feats (Sacred Vow and Vow of Obedience), and one semi-useful class feature (Platinum Armor) which can be replicated with normal enchanted armor. I would skip it.

Hm. Spend some stupid amount of gold points on enchanted full plate that not only only has -1 Armor check penalty AND still allows a +4 dex bonus, or slay a dragon and make it myself for free. The latter seems easier, to be honest.

[Vandicus]

Don't forget that I DO have one level in Gray Guard...so I can use poison and regain my paladin abilities after a cleric uses Atonement (Free of the usual XP cost.)

I stand corrected. Poison is not necessarily the best way to use the 1st level Gray Guard ability however, as it'll cost you your class features for the remainder of the battle. Deception to lead the dragon into an unsurvivable trap is not a bad idea, though naturally you'll need to set up the trap and use bluff(which you most likely do not have) or illusions.

[Cieyrin]

I've actually gone through this process as well... but I was ECL 16 and facing a Very Old Red... alone. On top of that, I was half-dragon (silver) and primarily a Bard (DM house-ruled that I could ignore the "bards can't be lawful" deal) who blew a feat on Bastard Sword proficiency.

There is a solution that works alright at least on the Bard/Paladin front, namely Devoted Performer from Complete Adventurer. Also comes with some nice toys for your trouble, like advancing smite and music.

[Archetype-]

There is a solution that works alright at least on the Bard/Paladin front, namely Devoted Performer from Complete Adventurer. Also comes with some nice toys for your trouble, like advancing smite and music.

Yes, that would have been very nice for me.... provided I had taken it. I completely spaced its existence out. In hindsight, I would have taken that as well. I was at an incredible disadvantage, and yet I somehow lucked out in the biggest ways. I wish I could recall the exact build and equipment layout, but all I remember was the sword (+1 Holy Frost) and a mithril shirt whose enhancements I cannot recall.

Oh, also I wasted money on a Ring of Evasion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#evasion). Rolled well on every single breath attack and took no fire damage. Luckiest. Half-dragon. Palibard. Ever.

[Cieyrin]

Yes, that would have been very nice for me.... provided I had taken it. I completely spaced its existence out. In hindsight, I would have taken that as well. I was at an incredible disadvantage, and yet I somehow lucked out in the biggest ways. I wish I could recall the exact build and equipment layout, but all I remember was the sword (+1 Holy Frost) and a mithril shirt whose enhancements I cannot recall.

Oh, also I wasted money on a Ring of Evasion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#evasion). Rolled well on every single breath attack and took no fire damage. Luckiest. Half-dragon. Palibard. Ever.

I wouldn't call Evasion a wasted investment, provided you had a half-decent Ref save. With Divine Grace, it could serve you well since then.

[Archetype-]

I wouldn't call Evasion a wasted investment, provided you had a half-decent Ref save. With Divine Grace, it could serve you well since then.

I was using "waste" as a figure of speech. That ring earned its money back and then some. Thanks to those ten levels in Bard, I had a nice Reflex save indeed. Think I also had a Cloak of Charisma. I recommend that one to anyone who has Divine Grace over the Resistance Cloaks, and just have the wizard/sorcerer cast Superior Resistance on the whole party somehow.

Now this has got me wanting to bring my Palibard back into a game. 'Tween work, other hobbies, and running my own game IRL, it's probably not gonna happen anytime soon. Oh, well.