Master of Many Forms

[Ardantis]

I've got a friend who's jumping into 3.5, and he's a smart enough chap that after his first game (as an Elven Ranger), I introduced him to the Tier system. He decided, after taking a look, that he wants his next character to be a Wildshape Variant Ranger moving into Master of Many Forms.

So, we've been exploring the character, marveling at how much more complicated the character is than a normal Ranger, and how much less complicated the character is than, say, a Druid.

I showed him Pun-Pun, as an example of what to avoid, and we built up a lvl 6 Ranger (Wildshape Variant) 5/MoMS 1, and I realized that, RP wise, MoMF are extremely eerie- weird, even.

I mean, imagine you are the party fighter (Dungeoncrasher if you want to imagine the party fighter in the same party as the Wildshape Ranger).

You're in a party with this Elven Ranger. He's a good scout, moves quickly, and can track and survive in the wilderness. You don't understand it, but he contributes to the party. Suddenly, you're in a fight, and he turns into a bear. Certainly unexpected, but he was a little off to begin with, and you never understood all that nature stuff anyways. During the course of your level 5 adventures, he turns into a fox to go scouting, a badger to get under a wall, and a falcon to cross a chasm. OK, you can roll with this- I mean, the wizard can shoot fire from his hands and the cleric can turn undead, why is this so different?

Then you hit level 6. You're busy with 2 new feats (or possibly Dungeoncrasher) and a second attack, but you notice that the Ranger is different. He's sacrificed his second attack for the ability to 1) transform into other humanoid creatures, and, more alarmingly, 2) talk when he's an animal.

The creepiest thing is when he turns into a human. You swear he's doing it just to freak you out.

Now, at next level, he'll be turning into big smelly giants and outclassing you in combat (again), but for that one level, he's just the creepiest companion going.

What does the playground think? Ever play with a creepy cohort?

[Greenish]

All player characters are creepy. :smalltongue:

[TurtleKing]

True true. My creepiest was a Deathless Fleshgrafter (necromantic wizard) who focused on the debuffing. He was the Blacksmith/Mortician for a small small place like a thorpe. So when they met me I am an Undead guy in black robes carrying around a ruby skull that is the Ruby Skull of Wee Jas and yes I could use it. Along with an Iron Defender, Clockwork Steed, Clockwork Mender, and a Clockroach as my minions. He became one of the most loved characters there, which was no surprise most of the others were just stats while he felt organic.

Some of my fun characters include a mentally cracked Doppleganger Factotum and a baby Black Dragon Duskblade.
I am not going to mention the Prinny Adept who became a Diety of Legend. He was great.

[TehLivingDeath]

That's the great thing about the MoMF's flavor imo. Once you get enough Wildshape uses, it's like you don't have a "true form" anymore. You're a bear, a dinossaur, a troll, basically anything your level allows.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Think of turning into other humanoid forms as more of a disguise, or to add versatility since different individuals are good at different things. He can turn into an orc and scout around the enemy encampment. He can turn into a human and gain max ranks in a skill of his choice along with a bonus feat (Skill Focus, or use it to gain a class skill), since racial bonus feats and racial skill bonuses are gained via Wild Shape. If you need to gain and use a different skill, turn into a different human.

You should get Power Attack, Leap Attack, Frozen Wild Shape (Frostburn), and Robilar's Gambit on a Ranger/MoMF. Take Master of Many Forms to the 7th level and pick up War Shaper 4, then finish MoMF. Take another level in Ranger or one in Nature's Warrior by 18th to get the BAB to qualify for Defensive Sweep (PH2). You'll want to go Human or Strongheart (Water) Halfling or use flaws to also get Combat Reflexes and Alertness, and keep the Ranger spellcasting to use Rhino's Rush and even pick up a pile of 1st level Pearls of Power.

Your strongest Wild Shape forms will be a Fleshraker dinosaur (MM3), Cave Troll (MM3), Cyrohydra (via Frozen Wild Shape), and War Troll (MM3). The Cryohydra with Robilar's Gambit can make a 12-bite AoO every time it's attacked. At MoMF 7 the War Troll form grants you all of its special qualities, because they're all extraordinary abilities.

[Randomguy]

You want creepy? Monks can talk to any living creature at lvl 17. THIS INCLUDES PLANTS. The carrot that the party druid just ate could have been his lifelong friend.

[huttj509]

You want creepy? Monks can talk to any living creature at lvl 17. THIS INCLUDES PLANTS. The carrot that the party druid just ate could have been his lifelong friend.

Wait...plants are creatures?

Living, yes. creatures? For normal plants?

[darksolitaire]

...but do the plants answer?

[Greenish]

...but do the plants answer?Every character can speak to whatever they please. Tongue of Sun and Moon says the monk can speak with any living creature. :smallamused:

[Luckmann]

You want creepy? Monks can talk to any living creature at lvl 17. THIS INCLUDES PLANTS. The carrot that the party druid just ate could have been his lifelong friend.

That's it. I'm swearing off eating.

[Ardantis]

I've always been more wigged out by the nature stuff than by the arcane stuff. I guess I'm just more at home with gibbering mouthers than walking fungi.

[Greyfeld]

If you use the Plant Companion ACF from Dragon Magazine, you'll notice while you're creating your companion that they have regular sight, and low-light vision out to 30 feet.

So, my real question is, where the hell are the eyes on these plants???

[The Dark Fiddler]

Wait...plants are creatures?

Living, yes. creatures? For normal plants?

Nope, they're objects.

[Randomguy]

The DM i'm with now said "we'll treat you as though your under a permanent tongues, speak with animals and speak with plants effect."

Is there an SRD definition of creatures?

[The Dark Fiddler]

The DM i'm with now said "we'll treat you as though your under a permanent tongues, speak with animals and speak with plants effect."

Well that's nice, but that makes it a quirk with your game, not the game :smalltongue:


Is there an SRD definition of creatures?

I don't know if it's outright stated, but the quotes below more or less tell you what you need to know:


This type comprises vegetable creatures. Note that regular plants, such as one finds growing in gardens and fields, lack Wisdom and Charisma scores (see Nonabilities) and are not creatures, but objects, even though they are alive.

Every creature has a Wisdom score.
...
Every creature has a Charisma score.

[Zaq]

Any character who delves into summoning/calling creatures (Planar Binding, anyone?) could get damned creepy to be around, I think.

Also, while they're relatively rare, any of the transformative or semi-transformative PrCs (Green Star Adept and Primeval leap to mind, though there are others) could be creepy in a different way from MoMF. It's obvious that the MoMF is consciously doing something. When the Primeval goes into primeval form, that's one thing, but even when they're not in primeval form, they're getting measurably stronger and measurably dumber. Rapidly. That's gotta be weird to see.

Oh, and in-character, I would have a very hard time being comfortable with an Enchanter or other Enchantment-focused character (Beguiler, certain flavors of Bard, etc.) in the party. As they get better and better at sculpting the minds of others, how can you ever really be sure that you're free from their grasp? Sure, you FEEL normal, and they TELL you that they'd never do that to you, but they WOULD say that, wouldn't they? Where's my tinfoil hat (which has a permanent Protection From Evil on it, don'cha know) . . .?

[Greenish]

Also, while they're relatively rare, any of the transformative or semi-transformative PrCs (Green Star Adept and Primeval leap to mind, though there are others) could be creepy in a different way from MoMF. It's obvious that the MoMF is consciously doing something. When the Primeval goes into primeval form, that's one thing, but even when they're not in primeval form, they're getting measurably stronger and measurably dumber. Rapidly. That's gotta be weird to see.Renegade Mastermaker: "why yes, I am cutting off pieces of myself and replacing them with machine parts, glad you noticed!"

There's also that grafter PrC, where you sew dead parts of other creatures on yourself (and your adorable kitten familiar).

[Tvtyrant]

How could you trust a lot of classes? Binders let something that effects their cognitive processes merge with their soul, Clerics worship gods that care more about garnering followers then making life/afterlife better places, Dragon Shamans/DFA/Dragon-thingys in general kow-tow to the living embodiements of greed, and Druids/Nature folk worship the only truly unapproachable form of power in existence. You can plane shift over to see how Thor is doing, but how can you be sure what your worshiping when it comes to nature? It could be the Abyss and you would be none the wiser.

[Randomguy]

Some races/templates can also get creepy. One play by post campaign whose thread I read had a dragonborn warforged (Robot dragon :smallsmile: ) and a talking plant as PC's.

[Zaq]

Some races/templates can also get creepy. One play by post campaign whose thread I read had a dragonborn warforged (Robot dragon :smallsmile: ) and a talking plant as PC's.

My group currently has a much-beloved singing tree as a key (NPC) party member. Definitely not talking. Only singing.

(She started out as a buomman, but she got reincarnated as a wood woad thanks to some fun rolls on an expanded Reincarnate table. A lifetime of vows doesn't just go away, though, so she only speaks in Buommi. Since none of the current party members were there before she turned into a wood woad, as far as we know, she's just our awesome singing tree with a badass unicorn.)

[darksolitaire]

Every character can speak to whatever they please. Tongue of Sun and Moon says the monk can speak with any living creature. :smallamused:

Aah, it must be magic, then.

...hey wait...

..it's just extraordinary :smallconfused:

[Andorax]

My group currently has a much-beloved singing tree as a key (NPC) party member. Definitely not talking. Only singing.

(She started out as a buomman, but she got reincarnated as a wood woad thanks to some fun rolls on an expanded Reincarnate table. A lifetime of vows doesn't just go away, though, so she only speaks in Buommi. Since none of the current party members were there before she turned into a wood woad, as far as we know, she's just our awesome singing tree with a badass unicorn.)

Go east for 3 days, until you find the singing bush.

Fire your guns in the air while speaking the magical words to summon the invisible swordsman. He will point the way to El Guapo's lair.

[Grendus]

I expect in any moderately high magic world most adventurers would be so jaded they wouldn't notice. Sure, Steve the Master of Many forms can turn into a talking bear. That's nothing, Fred the Sorcerer can fly all day with no wings and turn his enemies into squirrels because his great-great-great-grandfather was a dragon, and Carl the Dragonfire Adept can breath fire that ties people up. Turning into a talking animal is nothing.

[TwylyghT]

Go east for 3 days, until you find the singing bush.

Fire your guns in the air while speaking the magical words to summon the invisible swordsman. He will point the way to El Guapo's lair.

I literally just finished watching that. Forget the wild shaping, your spying is whats really creepy around here! lol.