The Other Knowledge Skills

[Zaq]

So, we all know and love the Knowledge skills that tell us about critters we're trying to kill (The big four being Arcana/Nature/Religion/Planes, with Local/Dungeoneering filling in the back). However, there are other Knowledge skills out there: in case you've forgotten, they're Architecture & Engineering, History, Nobility & Royalty, and Geography, as well as Psionics (I'm not sure when Psionics is used for a monster knowledge check and when whatever else the monster would fall under is used, so I'm mostly leaving it out).

My question, then, is twofold, though the two tie into each other rather strongly:

1) How have these other checks come up in your personal experience? What kinds of cool things have you done with them? What are some times when you've said "man, I'm really glad I trained K: Geography!" or whatever?

2) What other kinds of uses can we give these skills to make them more attractive?

I do know that there are a few RAW uses of these skills beyond just "you know stuff about stuff" . . . K: Geography, for instance, is used in navigating a ship (see It's Wet Outside), but mostly, they're either just there for flavor or for plot hook detection. Both flavor and plot hook detection are respectable causes, of course, but with skill points as tight as they are, it's often hard to justify putting more than a couple token ranks (usually just enough to snag a synergy bonus, if that) in K: Nobility and Royalty, you know? So, how can we jazz them up a little bit and make them more interesting? Any thoughts?

[Prime32]

Some homebrew martial disciplines use them...

[tyckspoon]

Engineering sometimes comes up as the key skill in operating big machines (siege engines, mostly), and both Architecture and Engineering have applications in constructing and more often deconstructing things, which is something adventurers end up doing semi-regularly ("Ok, I've got a Move Earth/Disintegrate/Earthquake prepped, but it's only 10-20-40 feet. How do I use this to most effectively damage the bridge/castle/whatever?" -> Engineering check!) I'd love to take Engineering in particular more often on my characters, but there's rarely skill points left after covering the essentials.

[Greenish]

Well, they can have situational uses as is, should the DM go out of his way to provide those. Say, for Know (Architecture & Engineering): "that there's the load bearing boss pillar, should someone Mountain Hammer it, it would bring the whole cave down".

History has some use as "Know (War)", I seem to recall, from HoB.


[Edit]:
there's rarely skill points left after covering the essentials.That's the bigger problem behind the skill system. If you had more skill points (way more), you could burn them on stuff that's occasionally useful, even if it doesn't always relate to combat.

[LaughingRogue]

History is my favorite, it tends to come up in games where the DM or the Mod has put a decently amount of time into a nice backstory and I tend to like games with a good story and background so I guess it's natural that I like this one.

[KillianHawkeye]

Engineering sometimes comes up as the key skill in operating big machines (siege engines, mostly), and both Architecture and Engineering have applications in constructing and more often deconstructing things, which is something adventurers end up doing semi-regularly ("Ok, I've got a Move Earth/Disintegrate/Earthquake prepped, but it's only 10-20-40 feet. How do I use this to most effectively damage the bridge/castle/whatever?" -> Engineering check!) I'd love to take Engineering in particular more often on my characters, but there's rarely skill points left after covering the essentials.

NOTE: Knowledge (Architecture and engineering) is a single skill.

[JaronK]

Architecture and Engineering is the skill to design castles, ships, and other large scale constructions. So that's useful. History comes up when using Heroes of Battle rules for battle. Nobility and Royalty gives a bonus to Diplomacy (5 ranks is all you need).

But that's all I've seen them used for.

JaronK

[FMArthur]

Nobility and Royalty is the least-used one. You might "use" it to improve your Diplomacy, but there is almost no reason to ever actually make the check itself in a game. It's not going to give you spy-like information on people and their current activities/agendas, so it falls short of simple Gather Information and actual spying, and there is no reason whatsoever that important information about past rulership could avoid just being a subset of History.

History and Archetecture/Engineering are both really nice for learning the lore and function of the world around you. I'm absolutely delighted whenever I make a character with Knowledge (History) and the DM lets me make checks to know stuff about the world. I know from personal experience that DMs usually create a far more detailed world than the players ever see, either out of their own interest in it or as a plan in case asked. One time my Barbarian was killed in a perfectly ordinary save-the-village dungeon crawl campaign and the next character I brought in had tons of Knowledge (History). The world turned out to be on the moon of a dead planet that survivors in hiding settled after the Great Cataclysm which involved the Good gods being slain and the Forces of Evil running unchecked, who still roamed the planet's surface in search of the escaped civilizations. :smalleek:

[Greyfeld]

Just recently, I was playing a Wizard who had ranks in Knowledge (History). Having run into an odd supernatural effect that I couldn't pin down with my Knowledge (Arcana), I made a history roll to see if my character recalled reading any similar supernatural happenings in the area's local history.

Granted, I rolled a natural 1, so I got jack-all. But my point is that it would have proven to be useful had I not rolled like garbage.

[Talbot]

Local comes up all the time both in games I run and games I play. Like, nearly constantly. If you wanna know about any meaningful NPC who isn't nobility or royalty, this is usually the skill that counts. It also helps to find local black markets, figure out political/cultural/philosophical leanings of a given area, etc.

Also, it is the go-to skill if you take Knowledge Devotion. Pumping it gives you +5 Attack and Damage vs. humanoids, which in most campaign is damned useful.

[Greenish]

Local comes up all the time both in games I run and games I play. Like, nearly constantly. If you wanna know about any meaningful NPC who isn't nobility or royalty, this is usually the skill that counts. It also helps to find local black markets, figure out political/cultural/philosophical leanings of a given area, etc.Couldn't Gather Information do most of those things, in addition to helping you to track down people who don't want to be found?

[Greyfeld]

Couldn't Gather Information do most of those things, in addition to helping you to track down people who don't want to be found?

Yeah see, that's one of the reasons why I usually don't bother with Local. It overlaps too much with Gather Information, and taking both would just be overkill. Though admittedly, each one may be better or worse for a specific character, depending on their class list and primary ability scores (since GI is based on CHA and Knowledge is based on INT).

[Talbot]

Couldn't Gather Information do most of those things, in addition to helping you to track down people who don't want to be found?

Ginfo checks take hours. Knowledge checks take seconds. It makes a difference. Also, if you take Knowledge Devotion....

[Greenish]

Ginfo checks take hours.Not if you're changeling rogue. :smalltongue:

[Greyfeld]

Ginfo checks take hours. Knowledge checks take seconds. It makes a difference. Also, if you take Knowledge Devotion....

I don't think I've ever come across a situation where the difference in time taken really mattered.

Not to say there aren't situations like that, but in my roleplaying experience, they come up very rarely.

[LaughingRogue]

I don't think I've ever come across a situation where the difference in time taken really mattered.

Not to say there aren't situations like that, but in my roleplaying experience, they come up very rarely.

I guess it depends on games --- time sensitive situations come up non-stop in most games I play.

[Ernir]

I'm playing in a game where Knowledge: Nob&Roy feels like the most common knowledge check we make. Who does the noble with that flag pay allegiance to? Do we recognize this guy on sight? Do we really have to pay this dumbass of a knight a toll to travel through his lands? What do we know about the father of the last king of the Riverlands?

The second most common roll would be Knowledge: Local. To get the same information about people who don't have noble blood in them.


It's the kind of campaign where we have met more lords/kings/rulers than magical beasts. :smalltongue:

[Eldariel]

In-game, knowing the noble families, their histories and such can be exceedingly useful in a game of urban intrigues. In the game I'm journalling we've had more than our share of K: Nob/Roy rolls for various scenarios, everything from detective work to finding allies.

[Waker]

Knowledge (Local) is also used to know the local laws and traditions of an area. Gather Information is great if you have a specific thing you are looking for, but Local is gonna be the one to tell you that this city has laws against carrying weapons or that elves are equated with the bogeyman.
Knowledge (Nobility) for me also includes courtly manners (helps diplomacy if you know this you are supposed to bow three times).