Infinite free XP: Smooch a Succubus

[Cruiser1]

Item crafting is fun and powerful, however having to spend XP during the process is annoying. Similarly, some of the best spells have XP costs, which would be nice to be able to avoid. Even the overpowered Thought Bottle (CA) item costs 500 XP to use. Costs like this can be avoided by restoring XP after it's spent, by casting (Greater) Restoration. To do this:

Intentionally gain a negative level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#energyDrainAndNegativeLevels) . For example, cast Summon Undead V (SpC) to bring in a Wight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/wight.htm) and have it hit you, or for extra fun Lesser Planar Bind a Succubus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#succubus). :smallwink: Wait 24 hours, and choose to fail the saving throw so you lose a level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#levelLoss). This sets your XP to the middle of the previous level. You now have a bunch of XP to use in crafting and such, until you run out of XP in that lower level. For example, if you're level 20 (190K XP), losing a level sets your XP to the middle of level 19 (180.5K XP). That gives you 9.5K XP to use in crafting, until you reach the beginning of level 19. When you're ready to adventure again, just cast Restoration. That will return you to your previous level. It will be as if you never spent any XP on crafting, making that XP free!

Restoration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/restoration.htm) only works if the level was lost within 1 day/CL ago, so the process may need to be repeated for long crafting times. It also costs 100 gp, which can be avoided at higher levels if Restoration is duplicated with Miracle. Greater Restoration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/restorationGreater.htm) restores all levels at once and works up to 1 week/CL, enough to cover almost any item. It also costs 500 XP to cast, however since this cost is paid before the spell resolves, if you cast it on yourself it's effectively free.

Note the text of Restoration doesn't merely restore the amount of XP lost. It sets your XP to the exactly the minimum number necessary to be your previous level. It doesn't care how much XP you've gained (or lost in our case) within the lower level before Restoration is cast. (Similarly, it doesn't care how far you were into your old level when the level was lost, which is why it's best to use this technique only when you've recently reached a new level.)

To avoid abuse, a reasonable house rule when you lose a level is to have Restoration only restore 1/2 a level's worth of XP, or enough to just raise you a level, whichever is lower. For example, if I go from level 20 to 19, spend 1000 XP crafting, then cast Greater Restoration (500 XP cost), I'm still 1500 XP short of 20th, and no longer considered to have lost a level.

[Alleran]

And as a bonus, you get to make out with the personification of lust and hedonism?

[Cruiser1]

And as a bonus, you get to make out with the personification of lust and hedonism?It depends on your character's alignment whether the thought of being with a Succubus is appealing. :smallamused: Note using Planar Binding to call an evil creature makes it an [Evil] spell, and similarly Summon Undead is [Evil] too, so good characters should avoid those methods. Non-evil ways of reliably getting negative levels include casting Energy Drain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/energyDrain.htm) on yourself, and plane shifting to the Negative Energy Plane for a round.

[Gettles]

And as a bonus, you get to make out with the personification of lust and hedonism?

You mean you get to make out with

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2011/08/01/1226105/894681-hedonism-bot.gif

[kabreras]

PHB page 174 noticed the "such as" witch means as "not limited to" but used as an exemple :

"XP Cost (XP): Some powerful spells (such as wish, commune, and miracle) entail an experience point cost to you. No spell, not even restoration, can restore the XP lost in this manner. You cannot spend so much XP that you lose a level, so you cannot cast the spell unless you have enough XP to spare. However, you may, on gaining enough XP to attain a new level, use those XP for casting a spell rather than keeping them and advancing a level. The XP are treated just like a material component—expended when you cast the spell, whether or not the casting succeeds. "


So you canot intentionally loose a level with a spell as resto doesnt take care of that kind of way of loosing a level.
Plus noticed the "You cannot spend so much XP that you lose a level" witch definitly end the discution on that.

Alright i totally missed the point where you summoned a wright to drain your xp.

[Zerter]

It depends on your character's alignment whether the thought of being with a Succubus is appealing

With a minimum charisma of 26 there is no alignment involved, even (especially?) a Paladin probably buys Succubi magazines.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

This would be a great counterpart to a Warlock12/Chameleon2 item shop build...

[Yuki Akuma]

It depends on your character's alignment whether the thought of being with a Succubus is appealing. :smallamused:

No, it doesn't matter what your alignment is, succubi are attractive to everyone. That's the entire point. Many succubi take the Demon of Corruption PrC for a reason.

[The Dark Fiddler]

No, it doesn't matter what your alignment is, succubi are attractive to everyone. That's the entire point. Many succubi take the Demon of Corruption PrC for a reason.

Well, yes, succubi themselves are attractive to everybody (except people exclusively attracted to men, I guess, since they have incubi... and where does that leave asexuals?), but the thought of being with one is a different thing entirely which could very well be revolting to many people.

[Yuki Akuma]

Pretty sure incubi are the same thing as succubi - they can shapeshift at will.

Also, being asexual does not make you aromantic. Not all the time, anyway. They only need 'intimate contact' to level drain - a hug would count, in some situations.

[Jack_Simth]

You know, I think I've seen this trick somewhere before....

You can actually do it without a thought bottle (although this method always truncates your XP, putting you at the minimum for the level you started the cycle in).

The XP yo-yo (alternate title: Do the Wight thing):Minimum level: 12th (although a Ring of Spell Storing, under Transparency, can bring this down to 11th)
You need: Psionic Restoration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/restorationPsionic.htm), and a critter under your control that can apply one negative level (such as a Wight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/wight.htm), but anything that can apply one negative level at a time, with a type of negative level that will convert to real level loss, will do).

Method:
Step 0: If using the Ring of Spell Storing method, store Psionic Restoration in the Ring.
Step 1: Have the critter hit you for one negative level.
Step 2: Wait until the time rolls around for the Fort save on that negative level, and voluntarily fail it, converting it to real level loss (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#levelLoss), setting your XP to halfway between the level you were and the level before (e.g., if you were level 12, and got drained to 11th, you're halfway between 11th and 12th - 60,500 xp, which is 5,500 xp in excess of 11th).
Step 3: Spend your newly-unlocked XP however you like (5,500 xp, for the character who starts this as a 12th level Egoist) - but watch the time limit!
Step 4: Before the time limit expires (1 day per manifester level), use Psionic Restoration to wipe away the level loss, which brings you "up to the minimum number of experience points necessary to advance it to the next higher level".

Congrats - By RAW, you just spent XP without having to actually pay for it.

Note: This can also be done by a Cleric at a lower level with the regular version of Restoration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/restoration.htm), but that costs 100 gp per iteration in material components by default. The higher-level Greater Restoration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/restorationGreater.htm) trades it for an XP component, which the method itself can pay for. Plus an evil cleric has a better chance of having the wight kind of minion to pull it off, too.


Now, if we can just figure out how to truly give away XP....

[2xMachina]

Heh. If intimate in defined by the victim, some would be easy victims, if they feel something like a handshake is intimate.

On the other hand, ...

[Yuki Akuma]

Heh. If intimate in defined by the victim, some would be easy victims, if they feel something like a handshake is intimate.

On the other hand, ...

I do like the idea that 'intimate' is defined by the victim, yes. Gives succubi a bit more dignity if they're not all "sex sex sex". :smalltongue:

[darksolitaire]

This succubus trick is actually pretty brilliant. And I didn't even read the xp part.

[Coidzor]

I do like the idea that 'intimate' is defined by the victim, yes. Gives succubi a bit more dignity if they're not all "sex sex sex". :smalltongue:

Dig...nity...?

For a creature that's an embodiment of lust and is literally made out of evil? :smallconfused:

[The Dark Fiddler]

Dig...nity...?

For a creature that's an embodiment of lust and is literally made out of evil? :smallconfused:

That'd be the Equality of Evil Outsiders Act of 1124. "No being, no matter how literally composed of evil they may be, shall be denied the basic right to dignity."

[Munchkin-Masher]

Dig...nity...?

For a creature that's an embodiment of lust and is literally made out of evil? :smallconfused:

Tsk, tsk, so judgemental you are, who's to say that a succubus couldn't be a nice gal?

[Rogue Shadows]

I hope we're all thinking of Fall-From-Grace, here.

[Yuki Akuma]

Dig...nity...?

For a creature that's an embodiment of lust and is literally made out of evil? :smallconfused:

Succubi are sapient creatures and are able to make their own decisions, no matter what they happen to be made of.

There's a succubus paladin on the WotC website!

[Urpriest]

Pretty sure incubi are the same thing as succubi - they can shapeshift at will.

Also, being asexual does not make you aromantic. Not all the time, anyway. They only need 'intimate contact' to level drain - a hug would count, in some situations.

Originally they were the same thing as Succubi. However, they got updated (in a Dragon and/or Fiendish Codex I) as rapist-soldier-demons in service of Malcanthet. So much for gender equality.

[Prime32]

You know, I think I've seen this trick somewhere before....

*snip*Meh, I prefer the succubus route to being touched by an albino scotsman. :smalltongue:

Also, incubi are a separate race who focus on rape rather than seduction. Succubi can assume male forms though.
EDIT: Swordsaged.

[Coidzor]

That'd be the Equality of Evil Outsiders Act of 1124. "No being, no matter how literally composed of evil they may be, shall be denied the basic right to dignity."

You just don't get it, do you Scott? It's the idea of wanting to make something dignified that is by its construction inherently undignified.


Tsk, tsk, so judgemental you are, who's to say that a succubus couldn't be a nice gal?

The being made out of evil and indignity part. :smalltongue: If you make it a nice gal or "dignified" then you've lost the essential succubusness of it.

[Yuki Akuma]

You never played Planescape: Torment, did you?

[Coidzor]

You never played Planescape: Torment, did you?

Of course I have. :smalltongue: My point still stands. It's rather silly to insist upon dignity for something that is in and of itself inherently undignified.

[Drelua]

Am I the only one that finds it ridiculous that it's evil to summon an evil creature? Somehow it's good to command, say, an angel to do your bidding, but to command an evil creature to destroy other evil creatures is evil? If anything, shouldn't it be the other way around? Sure, it's fine if the angel agrees that whoever you tell it to attack, but what if it doesn't for whatever reason? Then you're forcing a being composed of pure goodness to do as you command, and that's a good thing to do. But if you force a demon to kill a demon, that's evil. I can understand it with planar binding, when you're making a deal, but if I was DMing I would definitely houserule away the the evil descriptor on the summon line of spells.

[Jack_Simth]

Am I the only one that finds it ridiculous that it's evil to summon an evil creature? Somehow it's good to command, say, an angel to do your bidding, but to command an evil creature to destroy other evil creatures is evil? If anything, shouldn't it be the other way around? Sure, it's fine if the angel agrees that whoever you tell it to attack, but what if it doesn't for whatever reason? Then you're forcing a being composed of pure goodness to do as you command, and that's a good thing to do. But if you force a demon to kill a demon, that's evil. I can understand it with planar binding, when you're making a deal, but if I was DMing I would definitely houserule away the the evil descriptor on the summon line of spells.A good chunk of that depends on the reason that critters answer summons.

If, for instance, it's safe XP for them (a Summoned critter can't really die while Summoned - it just goes home if "slain", although with a bit of a delay, per RAW... and they're facing off against critters significantly higher in CR than them, usually), then any time you're Summoning an aligned critter, you're strengthening that critter a bit - and thus, it's side. Summoning an Efreeti then becomes a Lawful, Evil, Fiery act (you're strengthening a lawful, evil, fire creature). Can the beast be put to Chaotic, Good, or Watery use? Sure. You may also be capable of feeding orphans by stealing from the local grocery store ... but while feeding the orphans may be a good thing, you're still putting the grocery store down in doing so (which either raises prices for everyone else slightly to make up for the loss, or risks going out of business and not feeding anybody), and you're also showing the kids that it's OK to steal.

[Coidzor]

But Jack, NPCs can't gain XP!

[Prime32]

Am I the only one that finds it ridiculous that it's evil to summon an evil creature? Somehow it's good to command, say, an angel to do your bidding, but to command an evil creature to destroy other evil creatures is evil? If anything, shouldn't it be the other way around? Sure, it's fine if the angel agrees that whoever you tell it to attack, but what if it doesn't for whatever reason? Then you're forcing a being composed of pure goodness to do as you command, and that's a good thing to do. But if you force a demon to kill a demon, that's evil. I can understand it with planar binding, when you're making a deal, but if I was DMing I would definitely houserule away the the evil descriptor on the summon line of spells.It's because to summon something made of pure evil, you channel pure evil through your soul.

[The Glyphstone]

A good chunk of that depends on the reason that critters answer summons.

If, for instance, it's safe XP for them (a Summoned critter can't really die while Summoned - it just goes home if "slain", although with a bit of a delay, per RAW... and they're facing off against critters significantly higher in CR than them, usually), then any time you're Summoning an aligned critter, you're strengthening that critter a bit - and thus, it's side. Summoning an Efreeti then becomes a Lawful, Evil, Fiery act (you're strengthening a lawful, evil, fire creature). Can the beast be put to Chaotic, Good, or Watery use? Sure. You may also be capable of feeding orphans by stealing from the local grocery store ... but while feeding the orphans may be a good thing, you're still putting the grocery store down in doing so (which either raises prices for everyone else slightly to make up for the loss, or risks going out of business and not feeding anybody), and you're also showing the kids that it's OK to steal.

I want to play a character whose alignment is Lawful Watery now.

[Arbane]

Am I the only one that finds it ridiculous that it's evil to summon an evil creature? Somehow it's good to command, say, an angel to do your bidding, but to command an evil creature to destroy other evil creatures is evil? If anything, shouldn't it be the other way around?

See also: Malconvokers.

[tonberrian]

I want to play a character whose alignment is Lawful Watery now.

Perfect match for someone who's Aquatic Good.

[Morph Bark]

I'm still just gonna hold out for a Lawful Alcohol character.

[Jack_Simth]

I'm still just gonna hold out for a Lawful Alcohol character.
Isn't that just the traditional dwarven cleric of Moradain?

[Cruiser1]

This trick has serious ramifications. Infinite XP means infinite wealth! Most arcane casters avoid casting Wish (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm), because of its huge 5000 XP cost. However when that cost is effectively no longer present, you have what amounts to infinite wishes! :smallbiggrin:

For example, assuming you're level 20, you temporarily revert to level 19.5, giving you 9.5K XP to use. Cast Wish (using 5K of it) and wish for a diamond worth 25000 gp, or a block of platinum worth 25K gp (which can be converted to 2500 spendable platinum pieces with Fabricate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fabricate.htm)). This is a valid use of Wish, so has zero chance of being partially fulfilled or twisted. This is actually creating new wealth, as opposed to tricks like selling Walls of Iron (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfIron.htm) for their iron content, which can affect local economies.

Better yet, outfit yourself (followed by an entire army) with powerful magic items (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/magicItems.htm)! Given 9.5K XP to use, you can Wish to create a magic item that normally costs 2250 XP to craft. (9.5K starting XP minus 5K XP for casting wish minus up to 4.5K for double magic item creation cost, because "when a wish creates or improves a magic item, you must pay twice the normal XP cost for crafting or improving the item, plus an additional 5000 XP".)

2250 XP means a magic item worth up to 25 times that amount in gold, or any magic item up to 56250 gold. For example, create yourself for free any number of: Rings of Protection +5, Pearls of Power up to 7th level, +7 armor and shields, +5 weapons, Metamagic Rods of Maximize, and fun items like Instant Fortresses. This gets even more extreme given that Wish can improve an existing magic item, so items costing more than 56K gold can be created in steps. That allows quickly creating any number of +10 weapons and armor, and most any non-epic magic item.

[Fiery Diamond]

This trick has serious ramifications. Infinite XP means infinite wealth! Most arcane casters avoid casting Wish (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm), because of its huge 5000 XP cost. However when that cost is effectively no longer present, you have what amounts to infinite wishes! :smallbiggrin:

For example, assuming you're level 20, you temporarily revert to level 19.5, giving you 9.5K XP to use. Cast Wish (using 5K of it) and wish for a diamond worth 25000 gp, or a block of platinum worth 25K gp (which can be converted to 2500 spendable platinum pieces with Fabricate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fabricate.htm)). This is a valid use of Wish, so has zero chance of being partially fulfilled or twisted. This is actually creating new wealth, as opposed to tricks like selling Walls of Iron (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfIron.htm) for their iron content, which can affect local economies.

Better yet, outfit yourself (followed by an entire army) with powerful magic items (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/magicItems.htm)! Given 9.5K XP to use, you can Wish to create a magic item that normally costs 2250 XP to craft. (9.5K starting XP minus 5K XP for casting wish minus up to 4.5K for double magic item creation cost, because "when a wish creates or improves a magic item, you must pay twice the normal XP cost for crafting or improving the item, plus an additional 5000 XP".)

2250 XP means a magic item worth up to 25 times that amount in gold, or any magic item up to 56250 gold. For example, create yourself for free any number of: Rings of Protection +5, Pearls of Power up to 7th level, +7 armor and shields, +5 weapons, Metamagic Rods of Maximize, and fun items like Instant Fortresses. This gets even more extreme given that Wish can improve an existing magic item, so items costing more than 56K gold can be created in steps. That allows quickly creating any number of +10 weapons and armor, and most any non-epic magic item.

Just remember to save enough XP or enough bonus cash to cast/pay for your restoration.:smallbiggrin:

[Tyndmyr]

You know, I think I've seen this trick somewhere before....


Give away xp, you say?

There's spells for that(web supplement for phb 2 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a)). They're intended for crafting, so this basically lets you channel xp into anyone, giving even the youngest of characters a leg up.

I suppose the whole "towards creation of a magic item" is a limitation, but hey, it's a start.

I note that the duration is "permanent". I wonder what the implications of a dispel are...

[Lonely Tylenol]

I want to play a character whose alignment is Lawful Watery now.

Said the Succubus: "Oh no, now I'm all wet!"

[Alleran]

Should I have expected my momentary de-rail to have gone this far? :smallconfused:

[Morph Bark]

Should I have expected my momentary de-rail to have gone this far? :smallconfused:

This is Giant in the Playground. Our de-rails go through the fourth dimension, break the light speed barrier and the Fourth Wall, travels back in time to the future and warps the minds of our children.

So, yes.

[Psyren]

Also, incubi are a separate race who focus on rape rather than seduction.

At the risk of mod aggro, some of us like it rough :smallamused:

And say what you want about Pathfinder but it did nip this silliness in the bud.

[Frosty]

Thank God that in Pathfinder, crafting requires no exp! You can craft as much as you want as long as you have the gold and resources. Unfortunately, that also means I can't do this trick to my DM to make him go all ':smalleek:' then ':smallmad:' then ':smallsigh:'