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Midnight_v
2011-08-21, 09:07 PM
I normally start players higher than first but I'm thinking of doing a "start at level 1" campaign. I know the people aren't going anywhere for a while so the group will hold together for a signifigant time. I keep thiking though... level 1 seems like either I they get killed or get a cake walk. I don't wanna deux ex it. I'm not even trying to make it 4 combat day etc. . . I'm just thinking is that a level where you just let them smoke the opposition? Shuold It just be skipped.
Thanks for any consideration you can give the matter.

gbprime
2011-08-21, 09:11 PM
I normally start players higher than first but I'm thinking of doing a "start at level 1" campaign. I know the people aren't going anywhere for a while so the group will hold together for a signifigant time. I keep thiking though... level 1 seems like either I they get killed or get a cake walk. I don't wanna deux ex it. I'm not even trying to make it 4 combat day etc. . . I'm just thinking is that a level where you just let them smoke the opposition? Shuold It just be skipped.
Thanks for any consideration you can give the matter.

Focus on problem solving or a mystery. Save the "beat them up" focus for a level or two when you think they can survive it.

Malimar
2011-08-21, 09:13 PM
Well, first: I start my first-level adventurers off with 1,000gp. That's enough for, say, a wand of CLW, or some pretty hefty armor. Increases survivability drastically.

Second: make sure you realize that, by RAW, a PC's first hit die is maxed.

Third: throw mostly ECL1 encounters at them. Using even-CR encounters is good advice in general (it helps to forestall the 15-minute adventuring day, among other things), but level 1 has the additional problem that they're so delicate they can't usually handle CR+2 or +3 encounters like higher-level groups can.

erikun
2011-08-21, 09:14 PM
If we're talking about 3.P, I prefer starting out at 2nd level. Twice the survivability, and you can reasonably have "multiclass" characters who actually have abilities from both of their talents.

Other than that, first level is good at setting characters up. Give them challanges that the character is good at, go into their backstories, hand out RP experience, and that kind of thing.

Flickerdart
2011-08-21, 09:16 PM
Level 1 is tough, because like you say, a lucky hit from a big bruiser can end someone. The important thing is making sure your players understand that levels 1-3 are a different ball game from everything else. ToB, Druids and Barbarians are really good here, so anyone playing one of these classes is going to be the linchpin of the party, and tactics should be planned around them. A couple of orc warriors are now a good reason to sneak by, rather than charge in, etc. There's a reason that everyone in the world isn't an adventurer, and that's because level 1 is tough.

The enemies you throw at them can be a reasonable challenge without being overwhelming. As long as you make sure that they can't ice a party member with one shot - so if the Fighter has 12 hit points, send in a guy that does maybe 1d4+4 damage (the lower the random factor, the better). To compensate, make sure they have a good to-hit modifier. Weapon Focus on 1st level NPCs actually makes sense. Lots of Tiny creatures that deal 1 point of damage also work - after a few battles, your party will realize that the singular points of damage really add up. Just make sure they don't have Vigor wands before doing this.

Vangor
2011-08-21, 09:21 PM
My favorite levels are the lowest. Not only does the story and personality of the character factor in more, in my opinion, but solutions often come from without. Those are the levels upon which the P&P experience is based around because you cannot simply outperform everything mechanically, giving options for roleplaying and puzzle solving and world interaction and such. This is what I would focus on for the earliest campaigns: provide other solutions.

Make sure to let the party catch enemies unaware or divided or near environmental assistance. overhangs, rough terrain, pits, braziers, chokepoints, patrols, loud and informative conversations, additional supplies, empowering wards, etc.. All can be useful to assuring the party faces a challenging encounter and lives to tell without removing any of the glory from the players. I find bribery, maps, and so forth work well to avoid or reduce encounters through alternate means, as well.

But, no, players should not simply brush off combat. Those are the levels of real danger.

ZombiePunch
2011-08-21, 09:23 PM
Personally I always prefer starting at level 1 instead of mid-level and the first couple of levels can be really fun.

Fighting animals and small time bad guys, doing some investigations and rp heavy quests.

Getting those first three levels back to back, a new level every session just about is pretty cool beans.

Midnight_v
2011-08-21, 09:38 PM
WOW! Wow. Okay thats a lot to digest. I'll sort through and give some itemized responses to what I can, in the morning. Thank for the advice I really appreciate it.
M_v

Kenneth
2011-08-21, 09:41 PM
making a 1st levle adventure is the same as any type of adventure. Its just sinetad of starting out at a higher level you start off at teh 'classic' way i.e fighting goblins and skeletons.

This may be a bad example becuase I DM a totally different way that what you are supposed to for 3rd ed. but In a 1st level party for me conisting of 5 people Ranger, shaman, Spirit Master (think necromancer from EQ), paladin, and priest they have the following combat encoutners
A 4 Kobolds
B 3 orcs
C giant frog
D 3 orcs
E gelatinous cube
F Gnoll with Wolf pet ( boss fight)
G spear trap
H pit fall trap

The party got through there easily enough, other than the shaman charging in an rolling a 1 on the loose debris reflex and falling in a hole. all teh fights were easy enough. The Paladin got knocked unconsious once and the ranger once. but nobody ever dropped below -3 HP ( the paladin dropped to -3 whne the wolf got a sucesfult rip and the gnoll PA him for max damage.)

Calimehter
2011-08-21, 10:18 PM
1st level can be great fun. The PCs are quite fragile compared to what they will (hopefully) eventually become, but they can still handle level-appropriate encounters with the best of them.

Dice *are* a big factor, since the modifier totals to things like skill checks, attack rolls, and the like are smaller relative to the actual dice roll of a d20 than they will be at any other level. That level of randomness can be frustrating for DMs and players alike, and downright deadly for the latter if things go too badly.

On the other hand, the max hit die has its biggest effect at this level, and few EL-appropriate foes can knock a PC all the way past -10 with a single blow. That makes it a good level to have more than one melee combatant, even if one or more of them is "just" somebody's animal companion or the like. Having just one can be a real problem if a few die rolls go bad, but it usually takes a whole lot of bad luck to take down two or more.

Amphetryon
2011-08-21, 10:25 PM
One quick houserule can aid survivability a bit: Let death occur at NEGATIVE CON, rather than NEGATIVE 10, except in cases where the poor PC in question has a CON penalty. It evens out the randomness of a solid hit by enough to let a comrade get to the fallen PC's aid, assuming your bad guys don't CdG as a habit.

Infernalbargain
2011-08-21, 11:36 PM
Oh yes, and use PF's friendlier stabilization rules.

Savannah
2011-08-22, 01:23 AM
Honestly, just make sure to use almost entirely CR = party level or CR < party level encounters (and make sure that you take a look at the monsters' stats, as the CR may not be accurate). You don't really need any house rules; I've run many level 1 adventures like that.

Greenish
2011-08-22, 01:26 AM
and make sure that you take a look at the monsters' stats, as the CR may not be accurateI was just about to invoke the Dreaded Antediluvian Monkey!

Saintheart
2011-08-22, 03:45 AM
Also consider anti-housecat measures: a common houserule is to give the players triple their starting hitpoints at level 1. Enhances survivability somewhat.