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Pyromancer999
2011-08-21, 09:19 PM
Basically, here's the idea:

Say you chose to focus your character on around 2-6 skills of your choosing, and maybe aim to do decently in a few other skills. How high could you make your bonuses to skill checks for the skills your character is focused around?

erikun
2011-08-21, 09:31 PM
4 skill ranks = +4
20 Ability = +5
Skill Focus = +3
additional feat (i.e. Alertness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#alertness)) = +2
Masterwork Item = +2
Aid Another = +2

For a total of +18 at first level. By 2nd level, you can increase the skill rank by 1 and frequently gain a skill synergy for another +2, for a +21 total. There are also (mid-level) magic items that can grant +10 to +20 to a skill check.

This is hardly a lot of optimization, at that. Any specific skill you were looking at?

Pyromancer999
2011-08-21, 09:51 PM
4 skill ranks = +4
20 Ability = +5
Skill Focus = +3
additional feat (i.e. Alertness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#alertness)) = +2
Masterwork Item = +2
Aid Another = +2

For a total of +18 at first level. By 2nd level, you can increase the skill rank by 1 and frequently gain a skill synergy for another +2, for a +21 total. There are also (mid-level) magic items that can grant +10 to +20 to a skill check.

This is hardly a lot of optimization, at that. Any specific skill you were looking at?

I suppose that Knowledge(Arcana), Spellcraft, and similar skills would be the primary concern for the reason I have in mind.

erikun
2011-08-21, 10:07 PM
If you don't care about your physical ability scores, then an old Gray Elf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#grayElf) can get up to 22 INT at first level. The Magical Aptitude (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#magicalAptitude) feat gives you +2 to Spellcraft (and Use Magic Device), as does 5 ranks in Knowledge: Arcana. I seem to recall a similar regional feat from Forgotten Realms that gives +2 to Kno: Arcana and perhaps Decipher Script.

Assuming two flaws for two extra feats (both Skill Focuses) and the two mentioned above, at 3rd level we are looking at:

Knowledge: Arcana
+5 skill ranks
+6 INT
+3 Skill Focus (Knowledge: Arcana)
+2 regional feat
+2 Masterwork tool (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#toolMasterwork)
= +18 total (not counting Aid Another)

Spellcraft
+5 skill ranks
+6 INT
+3 Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
+2 Magical Aptitude
+2 Masterwork tool
+2 synergy (Knowledge: Arcana)
= +20 total (not counting Aid Another)

There are also spells and effects that can grant a bonus; the Bard's Inspire Competence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm#inspireCompetence) comes to mind as an easy +2. Unless you absolutely must have the highest skill bonuses as early as possible, though, you might be better off saving the feats and see if your DM will allow a single [+2 Knowledge: Arcana and Spellcraft] feat for your character to take.

Fiery Diamond
2011-08-21, 10:10 PM
If you don't care about your physical ability scores, then an old Gray Elf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#grayElf) can get up to 22 INT at first level. The Magical Aptitude (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#magicalAptitude) feat gives you +2 to Spellcraft (and Use Magic Device), as does 5 ranks in Knowledge: Arcana. I seem to recall a similar regional feat from Forgotten Realms that gives +2 to Kno: Arcana and perhaps Decipher Script.

Assuming two flaws for two extra feats (both Skill Focuses) and the two mentioned above, at 3rd level we are looking at:

Knowledge: Arcana
+5 skill ranks
+6 INT
+3 Skill Focus (Knowledge: Arcana)
+2 regional feat
+2 Masterwork tool (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#toolMasterwork)
= +18 total (not counting Aid Another)

Spellcraft
+5 skill ranks
+6 INT
+3 Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
+2 Magical Aptitude
+2 Masterwork tool
+2 synergy (Knowledge: Arcana)
= +20 total (not counting Aid Another)

There are also spells and effects that can grant a bonus; the Bard's Inspire Competence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm#inspireCompetence) comes to mind as an easy +2. Unless you absolutely must have the highest skill bonuses as early as possible, though, you might be better off saving the feats and see if your DM will allow a single [+2 Knowledge: Arcana and Spellcraft] feat for your character to take.

Question: If you're doing third level, why do you only have 5 skill ranks? The max is lvl+3, or in this case, 6.

erikun
2011-08-21, 10:11 PM
Question: If you're doing third level, why do you only have 5 skill ranks? The max is lvl+3, or in this case, 6.
Mind-slippage. I was originally thinking 2nd level, but upped it to 3rd to get all four feats in there easily.

ZombiePunch
2011-08-21, 10:28 PM
One level dip in Exemplar gives you skill artistry(+4 on any one skill) and skill mastery(take 10 on 3+int mod skills). Also a prerequisite is skill focus, so that's another +4 on one of your skills.

sreservoir
2011-08-21, 10:30 PM
focus! +arb to anything (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870890/Updated_Nanobots_Conquer_D38;D_(AC,_Attack,_and_Sk ill_Records)) isn't that hard to do, really.

Greenish
2011-08-22, 12:55 AM
Assuming two flaws for two extra featsShouldn't forget traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#illiterate), either.

Also, Shape Soulmeld is probably better than Skill Focus or Alertness-style two-in-ones, if you can reach the 13 Con required.

Elboxo
2011-08-22, 04:43 AM
Speaking of Skill boosting items, anyone know any cheap bluff boosting items?

prufock
2011-08-22, 07:20 AM
focus! +arb to anything (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870890/Updated_Nanobots_Conquer_D38;D_(AC,_Attack,_and_Sk ill_Records)) isn't that hard to do, really.

We mustn't forget the clause in Aid Another, though: "In many cases, a character’s help won’t be beneficial, or only a limited number of characters can help at once." Basically DM prerogative to limit your aid bonus.

EDIT

What level are you looking to build at? By 20 you can fairly simply have checks above 100, even without game-breaking stuff.
23 - Max ranks
23 - Item Familiar (Invest Skill Ranks)
12 - Ability Modifier
10 - Marshall 1 for minor aura with high Cha (circumstance - much more efficient if you're going for cha-based skills; essentially 2xCha to each)
01 - Helm of Tactics (improves marshall aura by 1, limited use)
02 - synergy (untyped)
03 - skill focus (untyped)
02 - two-skill feat (untyped)
02 - MW tool (circumstance)
10 - Competence item (ie Ring of X +10)
02 - Heroism (morale)
01 - Luckstone (luck)
02 - Illumian sigils (untyped, I think)
01 - Enhanced Power Sigil (feat improves Illumian sigils by 1)
10 - Membership in the Paragnostic Assembly (only applies to certain skills - knowledges, spellcraft, etc - but this is just an example)
15/20 - Divine Insight/Moment of Prescience (insight)
05 - Truenamer 1 (Universal Aptitude utterance, untyped)
Total = 121/126

I don't think I've done anything illegal there, but feel free to correct me.

Of course, depending on your build and what skills you're aiming at, there are other things you can bring in. IE for Social skills - Warlock 1 for Least Invocation: Beguiling Influence, Bard Spell: Glibness for bluff, Dread Witch for Intimidate. Spellscale (race) Blood-Quickening ability grants +1/2 HD to various skills (that you can change each day) as a racial bonus.

Of course this doesn't necessarily mean you'll be an effective character, but you'll definitely be effective at certain things.

CTrees
2011-08-22, 07:43 AM
We mustn't forget the clause in Aid Another, though: "In many cases, a character’s help won’t be beneficial, or only a limited number of characters can help at once." Basically DM prerogative to limit your aid bonus.

Remember - that's a theoretical optimization build. I'd argue that, given the nature of that nanobot swarm, you could fluff it as being reasonable to have them all aid another, but it's a build like pun-pun, and was never designed to see actual play.

Still sets the upper bar for the "what's possible" thought experiment, though.

prufock
2011-08-22, 08:08 AM
Remember - that's a theoretical optimization build. I'd argue that, given the nature of that nanobot swarm, you could fluff it as being reasonable to have them all aid another, but it's a build like pun-pun, and was never designed to see actual play.

Still sets the upper bar for the "what's possible" thought experiment, though.

Agreed. I have no problem with theoretical optimized builds, just pointing out the disparity between optimization and practical play.

Really, the highest set epic skill DC (ignoring opposed checks and variable DCs) is 150 for turning a hostile creature to a fanatic with Diplomacy or Perform. Granted, DCs for opposed checks and things like Spellcraft for epic spells (though most of the listed ones still fall below 100) can get ridiculous, but once you've got a skill bonus of +100-150, you're able to succeed on close to absolutely anything you do regarding that check.