METAMAGIC Feats

[dkist]

Is it possible to use;

Sudden Maximize (F) + Sudden Quicken (F) + Twin (+4)+ Sonic(F) Fireball (3)

with easy - arcane thesis + searing spell + celerity = 1000~1500damage in a round

[0nimaru]

Sudden Quicken has six prerequisite feats. I see you adding four more with Easy Meta, Thesis, Twin, and Searing Spell. This is a total of 11 feats.

So yes, this is possible with a human wizard, but seems ill advised to sink all of your feats into it.

[dkist]

Sudden Quicken has six prerequisite feats. I see you adding four more with Easy Meta, Thesis, Twin, and Searing Spell. This is a total of 11 feats.

So yes, this is possible with a human wizard, but seems ill advised to sink all of your feats into it.


I am not asking it is logical or not ... I am asking is it RAW or NOT :smallcool:

[dextercorvia]

Is it possible to use;

Sudden Maximize (F) + Sudden Quicken (F) + Twin (+4)+ Sonic(F) Fireball (3)

with easy - arcane thesis + searing spell + celerity = 1000~1500damage in a round

I presume Sonic refers to Energy Substitution. That is not one of the choices. In addition, searing spell will not work the way you hope. If you energy sub to Acid first you can't apply Searing since it no longer has the Fire descriptor. If you apply Searing first it will deal half damage to fire immune creatures, only useful if a critter has both Fire and Acid immunity.

You don't need Easy Metamagic, you already have a +0 adjustment without it.

You are tossing out 6 (2 as each of a Swift, Standard, Immediate) [Energy]balls at 60 damage each during your round. You won't be able to do it again. How are you getting 1000 damage?

[Fouredged Sword]

You can use the metamagic tactiacl feat to apply some of your metamagic to a second or third casting imidiatly after so long as you keep it up with all the same spells.

It actualy wouldn't be a bad way to keep up a set of quickened spells on continuous fire. Sudden quicken to start off the chain and then residual metamagic to keep having no level adjustment quickens.

If only it didn't require so many prereq feats.

you are better off with a normal quickened magic missile starting a chain of quickened status effect (fell drain, fell weaken, fell freighten) magic misiles every round. It would be a good way to use all those 1-3rd level spell slots at high level.

[Devronq]

I just wanted to note that I'm fairly certain in 3.5 there is raw that does not allow a metmagic feat to be decreased to 0 that the minimum is +1. however in3.0 I'd does allow it to become 0 as well ad it specifically says for incantrix it can become 0 with his easy meta ability. I as a dm with 14yrs exp I would never allow it to become +0, sudden and divine metamagic are fine but if you could cast any of your spells all quicken, max, empower, twin etc etc all at the same time t absolutely no cost it become quite dumb and I so simple add the +1 limit. Again I am fairly certain it says raw somewhere that it can't but I'm
Not 100% sure

[Flickerdart]

I just wanted to note that I'm fairly certain in 3.5 there is raw that does not allow a metmagic feat to be decreased to 0 that the minimum is +1.
That always depends on the individual reducer.

[dextercorvia]

I just wanted to note that I'm fairly certain in 3.5 there is raw that does not allow a metmagic feat to be decreased to 0 that the minimum is +1. however in3.0 I'd does allow it to become 0 as well ad it specifically says for incantrix it can become 0 with his easy meta ability. I as a dm with 14yrs exp I would never allow it to become +0, sudden and divine metamagic are fine but if you could cast any of your spells all quicken, max, empower, twin etc etc all at the same time t absolutely no cost it become quite dumb and I so simple add the +1 limit. Again I am fairly certain it says raw somewhere that it can't but I'm
Not 100% sure

You could read the PHBII errata file. Look at Arcane Thesis. Also, check out Metamagic School Focus from CMage.

[Saintheart]

Just putting a note in here that Node Magic reduces the higher level spell slot load for metamagic considerably. Worth looking into if you're a BBEG.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Sorcerer/Incantatrix
Relevant feats: Arcane Thesis: Wings of Flurry, Twin Spell, Invisible Spell, Empower Spell, Maximize Spell
Relevant spells: Wings of Flurry, Arcane Spellsurge
Relevant class features: Metamagic Specialist ACF

Twinned (+2) Maximized (+1) Empowered (0) Invisible (-2) Wings of Flurry as a swift action (meta spec)
Then a Twinned (+2) Maximized (+1) Empowered (0) Invisible (-2) Wings of Flurry as a standard action (no meta spec)
Then celerity into another Twinned (+2) Maximized (+1) Empowered (0) Invisible (-2) Wings of Flurry in a standard action (no meta spec)

Each casting does CL*18 damage, for a total of CL*54 damage. For a level 16 Sorcerer with two +1 CL boosts (Ioun Stone + Ring of Arcane Might, perhaps) that's 1080 damage without trying.

[dextercorvia]

Sorcerer/Incantatrix
Relevant feats: Arcane Thesis: Wings of Flurry, Twin Spell, Invisible Spell, Empower Spell, Maximize Spell
Relevant spells: Wings of Flurry, Arcane Spellsurge
Relevant class features: Metamagic Specialist ACF

Twinned (+2) Maximized (+1) Invisible (-2) Wings of Flurry as a swift action (meta spec)
Then a Twinned (+2) Maximized (+1) Invisible (-2) Wings of Flurry as a standard action (no meta spec)
Then celerity into another Twinned (+2) Maximized (+1) Invisible (-2) Wings of Flurry in a standard action (no meta spec)

Each casting does CL*18 damage, for a total of CL*54 damage. For a level 16 Sorcerer with two +1 CL boosts (Ioun Stone + Ring of Arcane Might, perhaps) that's 1080 damage without trying.

Just two nitpicks: Invisible will apply a -1 instead of a -2, the Incantatrix ability can't reduce it below 1, so it doesn't. This represents three actions, it isn't really fair to call it one casting.

[dkist]

SUDDEN spells are SWIFT or STANDART action? or none of them??

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Outside of Sudden Quicken, the Sudden metamagic feats don't change the casting time of the spell.

Dexter: Eh, 6th level spell slots instead of 5th. The OP had three castings in one round, so I did the same.

[dkist]

Than correct me if I am wrong;

Dragonblooded "Arcane" Spellcaster 20

Round "1"

(swift ac.) Arcane Spellsurge

(full round ac. now STANDART) Sudden Maximize (F) + Sudden Quicken (F) + Twin etc... damaging spell

(immediate action) Celerity, Greater

(swift ac.) normal damaging spell

(standart action) metamagic damaging spell

(free or unnamed action) Action Surge with metamagic damaging spell

So in just 6 seconds, without using time stop CASTER will be able to fire 3 metamagic + 1 Normal damaging spell in a round?


Any possible way to cast more??

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Swift actions are separate from full round actions, so you don't gain another one with Greater Celerity. Why not use Time Stop, again? I was specifically avoiding 9ths because of Time Stop (and, well, Shapechange and Gate and Genesis and...)

[dextercorvia]

Than correct me if I am wrong;

Dragonblooded "Arcane" Spellcaster 20

Round "1"

(swift ac.) Arcane Spellsurge

(full round ac. now STANDART) Sudden Maximize (F) + Sudden Quicken (F) + Twin etc... damaging spell

(immediate action) Celerity, Greater

(swift ac.) normal damaging spell

(standart action) metamagic damaging spell

(free or unnamed action) Action Surge with metamagic damaging spell

So in just 6 seconds, without using time stop CASTER will be able to fire 3 metamagic + 1 Normal damaging spell in a round?


Any possible way to cast more??

Yeah, this doesn't work. Also, action points.


Swift actions are separate from full round actions, so you don't gain another one with Greater Celerity. Why not use Time Stop, again? I was specifically avoiding 9ths because of Time Stop (and, well, Shapechange and Gate and Genesis and...)

Probably the whole you can't affect any creatures during Time Stop thing. He's still thinking about blasting.

[Tyndmyr]

I am not asking it is logical or not ... I am asking is it RAW or NOT :smallcool:

Yes, the sudden metamagics are one of the more creative ways to abuse Arcane Thesis...I've used them in the past as well. I prefer Sudden Maximize + Sudden Empower over Sudden Quicken for prereq reasons, though. Vastly more efficient. Use a regular quick instead of a sudden quicken, and spent the extra feats on low cost metamagics instead.

If you're looking at sorc, metamagics are tighter than wizard. Be aware of that.

And seriously, just use a belt of battle instead. And Arcane Fusion/Greater Arcane Fusion.