bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?

[Qwertystop]

How do I do it? I want to make an Enchantment Sorc, using a homebrew I found that lets a sorc know all spells in one school if they ban 4 others, but I can't figure out how to get past immunity.

[Keld Denar]

That's...pretty much the reason why Enchantment is considered the worst school of magic.

Psionics DOES have routes for penetrating Mind Blank, but unfortunately conventional magic does not. You could Lim Wish to replicate the power maybe?

Also, things that have inherant immunity to Mind Affecting, such as Undead, Constructs, and Vermin are impossible to overcome by any means.

[Lapak]

Sadly, the most efficient route for 'bypassing immunity to Mind-Affecting' involves Charming and/or Dominating something that doesn't have immunity and making it beat down/persuade/bypass whatever it is that's giving you trouble.

[Yuki Akuma]

You can't bypass immunity to Mind-Affecting.

[Lapak]

You can't bypass immunity to Mind-Affecting.Which is pretty amazing considering that you can bypass Immunity to Fire, Magic Immunity, and just about every other kind of Immunity. It's nice that there's one thing where the rules-writers understood what 'immunity' means. :smallwink:

[MammonAzrael]

As the others have said, you're pretty much boned. Unless you're reaching out to homebrew material.

That said you can focus on enchantment, while having a back-up focus to deal with things immune to your charms (minions, dispeling, explosions, party buffs, etc).

[sreservoir]

for specific creatures, it's not necessarily difficult to bypass the source of their immunity, though.

will need some spell-emulation magic items, though.

it's probably easier to just not focus on enchantment, though.

[sreservoir]

for specific creatures, it's not necessarily difficult to bypass the source of their immunity, though.

will need some spell-emulation magic items, though.

it's probably easier to just not focus on enchantment, though.

[Piggy Knowles]

The best way, using enchantment, to stop someone who has Mind Blank up? Charm the troll standing next to him and ask him to smash his head in.

That's a little bit flippant, and of course it's never that easy, but unless your DM lets you research a spell version of Shatter Mind Blank (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shatterMindBlank.htm), it's pretty much your only option.

That being said, the most effective Enchanters generally should look at taking a leaf out of the Necromancer's book. Use most of your Charm/Dominate style spells outside of combat (or immediately after), to give yourself minions that will fight for you. During combat, your spells should primarily be buffs and debuffs.

[mootoall]

Well, Dread Witch allows you to bypass immunity to fear, and ... wasn't there something like Nightmare Spinner that does something like that?

[Drachasor]

How does this homebrew work?

You give up access to 4 schools (of your choice?), and get access to all spells of one school. Do you then get the normal allotment of spells known from the remaining 3 schools? Do you get all spells of the school in question from all books?

If so, you could certainly use your remaining spells known to find spells to handle creatures immune to mind-affecting.

[dextercorvia]

How does this homebrew work?

You give up access to 4 schools (of your choice?), and get access to all spells of one school. Do you then get the normal allotment of spells known from the remaining 3 schools? Do you get all spells of the school in question from all books?

If so, you could certainly use your remaining spells known to find spells to handle creatures immune to mind-affecting.

Or, you know, pick a better school to focus on.

[Drachasor]

Or, you know, pick a better school to focus on.

Granted, transmutation or conjuration would be best, of course, but the OP seems to like the mind-sorc theme.

Min-maxing, going with all Transmutation or Conjuration/Summoning spells, and then banning Necromancy, Evocation, Illusion, and then Abjuration or Divination would allow a lot of enchantment spells to be selected. I don't think that's what the OP wants though.

[Zonugal]

Well, Dread Witch allows you to bypass immunity to fear, and ... wasn't there something like Nightmare Spinner that does something like that?

I think one of those has an adaptation which switched the focus from Illusion to Enchantment.

[Silva Stormrage]

There actually is one way, though its semi homebrew. The nightmare spinner class. In the adaptation section it mentions how it could be switched into a class that lets you bypass mind affecting immunity for dominate and charm spells. You would need to switch the class around a bit though.

[DeAnno]

Song of the Dead metamagic out of Dragon Magazine bypasses the immunity granted by being an intelligent undead, but that is obscure, specific, and also changes the spell to Necromancy.

[Ravens_cry]

Pathfinder undead bloodline sorcerers can affect corporal undead that were once humanoid (a broader category in Pathfinder that includes giants) with spells they are normally immune to. In the right campaign, that is very sweet.

[Claudius Maximus]

If psions can break the immunity, all you need to do is dominate a psion and make them dominate the enemy.

The old Psychic Double Reacharound.

[Jack_Simth]

How do I do it? I want to make an Enchantment Sorc, using a homebrew I found that lets a sorc know all spells in one school if they ban 4 others, but I can't figure out how to get past immunity.
Wish, Limited Wish, and Miracle.

How it works:
Wish, Limited Wish, and Miracle all have their own school and descriptor line. They all duplicate other spells.

By the standard inheritance rules, anything specified in the spell you're actually casting overrides the stuff that the spell text says it acts like. So Polymorph (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorph.htm) is still a Sor/Wiz 4, has a material component, is touch range, requires the subject be living, and lasts minutes/level, even though the spell it refrences (Alter Self) is Sor/Wiz 2, has no material component, is personal range, has no restriction on the subject's creature type, and lasts ten minutes/level.

So when Limited Wish inherits from Charm Monster, the school and descriptor line of Limited Wish overrides the school and descriptor line of Charm Monster... thus, that duplicated casting of Charm Monster is no longer mind-affecting. Have fun Charming constructs and undead.

Edit: Probably not helpful for you, though.
How's this: Pick up:
Dispel Ward (Spell Compendium - Sor/Wiz 1).
(Greater) Dispel Magic.
Rapid Metamagic (feat from Complete Mage)
Quicken Spell (Rapid Metamagic permits you to use it effectively)

You can now use Dispel Ward as a swift action on items likely to generate mind-affecting immunity effects (most are abjurations, and items usually don't have a very high caster level), and then your standard action to do the deed to the target. At higher levels, you'll be wanting to do this with (Greater) Dispel Magic.

You may also want to invest in metamagic reducers, or maybe Rods of Quicken Spell.

[Qwertystop]

Thanks, everyone!
Here's the link to the homebrew: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3456364&postcount=10

I was trying to figure out the sorts of spells a 6-or-so-year-old would use (that's most of the character idea, a permanently innocent, naive, trusting, mildly suggestible 6-year-old), and I figured that Enchantment would work the best.

Do any of you have ideas for easier specializations to work with that would still fit the idea? I was thinking maybe Illusion, for imaginary friends.

[Drachasor]

Thanks, everyone!
Here's the link to the homebrew: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3456364&postcount=10

I was trying to figure out the sorts of spells a 6-or-so-year-old would use (that's most of the character idea, a permanently innocent, naive, trusting, mildly suggestible 6-year-old), and I figured that Enchantment would work the best.

Do any of you have ideas for easier specializations to work with that would still fit the idea? I was thinking maybe Illusion, for imaginary friends.

Conjuration/Summoning is totally 6 year-old magic. Summon friends! Kaboomies of various sorts. Lots of stuff. Transmutation I don't think works quite as well, but I figure you could actually flavor almost anything to a little kid, really. Sorcerous magic is powered by the imagination.

[Arundel]

Refluff the Shadow [School] line of spells as your nightmares made manifest. Isn't every six year old afraid of the dark?

[LaughingRogue]

That's...pretty much the reason why Enchantment is considered the worst school of magic.

Psionics DOES have routes for penetrating Mind Blank, but unfortunately conventional magic does not. You could Lim Wish to replicate the power maybe?

Also, things that have inherant immunity to Mind Affecting, such as Undead, Constructs, and Vermin are impossible to overcome by any means.

There is song of the dead for bypassing Undead immunity -- out of the Dragon Compendium.

[Psyren]

Why would you want a ton of enchantment spells anyway, even if you could somehow overcome the immunity? There's only so many ways you need to cast "do what I say" and the rest are so much wasted potential.

[Kansaschaser]

I thought I saw an epic feat that allows you to bypass Mindblank? Or was I mistaken? That might have been the only way without homebrew.

[Tenno Seremel]

Shatter Mind Blank isn't quite good either.

[Piggy Knowles]

Shatter Mind Blank's sole saving grace is the fact that it is an area burst, which is really quite nice when you’re at high levels and 60% of what you fight has a Mind Blank effect up. But yeah, Will negates + PR + caster level check required means that they have a pretty good chance of keeping their Mind Blank up.

[Tenno Seremel]

Shatter Mind Blank's sole saving grace is the fact that it is an area burst

Unless your comrades are right beside you as well. I don't think SMB says that only foes are affected.

[Kansaschaser]

Well, I saw a feat that allows the Bard's music to affect things that are immune to mind effecting. So you could use the Fascinate or Suggestion ability as a Bard on things like Constructs, Plants, and creatures with Mindblank.

They do however receive a +10 bonus on their Will save.

[candycorn]

Polymorph Any Object allows you to change a creature's type, which can remove inherent mind-affecting immunity (for many things), and give it an intelligence score, which bypasses most other inherent immunities.

From there, a solid Dispel can usually eliminate spell protections, leaving only items.

There are ways to get rid of items, but they rely on either Chaining dispel or chaining lightning.

[imperatorprime]

How do I do it? I want to make an Enchantment Sorc, using a homebrew I found that lets a sorc know all spells in one school if they ban 4 others, but I can't figure out how to get past immunity.

I've been thinking about this myself and the best I can come up with so far is to first use Polymorph Any Object (a Transmutation) on your target to change them from whatever they are that's immune to Enchantments into something that isn't-- ie. from a half-fey template creature into a human, which lacks the template's immunity-- and then hit 'em with the Enchantment. But that's a level 8 Sor/Wiz spell to "soften them up," so... :-/

[Malphegor]

This might be a bit ridiculous, but ask your DM if you can slam a headband of intellect on them. 9/10 they’re too stupid for your powers to get a grip. Smarten them up and...

Oh no. The zombies can think now.

[PunBlake]

I think one of those has an adaptation which switched the focus from Illusion to Enchantment.

Nightmare Spinner (CM) has the adaptation text. Search on Google or DuckDuckGo for "D&D 3.5 nightmare spinner adaptation" for homebrew. I have a version of this that I've written myself for personal use for an NPC in one of my campaigns (because I didn't like the homebrew), but I'd have to format it for the boards to post it. Maybe later.

[Mordaedil]

Dispel magic to suppress the magic also works. Quicken it if necessary.