Gearless Builds?

[Chilingsworth]

Hey playgrounders!

One of my characters seems likely to dies soon, so I'm trying to prepare for that eventuality.

Specifically, the campaign features low resale value for most treasure, and no place to buy/sell magic items nearby anyway. (Also, teleportation magic where we are has unspecified "bad effects" so, we'll be hesitant to try that when we gain the ability.)

As a result, I'd like a build that is as gear-independant as possible. Vow of Poverty is not an option. We're currently 6th level, but will be starting with 1st level gear (This is to prevent spawn spaming for more treasure.)

Any suggestions?

EDIT:

OK, maybe I should clarify abit, I was kinda distracted when I first posted the thread.

Anyway, The problem isn't that we get ~no~ treasure, it's that we have next to no control over what we get, and have to use whatever we find. So, I'd like some ideas for builds that aren't gear-dependant. Any useful gear I find would then be a bonus.

[Zonugal]

You could try building an Incarnate?

Being a ghost is also an option.

[The Glyphstone]

"Spawn spamming"? Does your DM run the world like an MMO/FPS or something? Seems like an odd group dynamic that has to pick between purposefully dying to get extra gear and horribly crippling replacement characters.

[Talbot]

Druid. Or anything from MoI. IF UA unarmored AC rules are in effect, widen that list to include ToB and maybe Barb.

[CTrees]

If you can pull from Pathfinder, there's my perpetual call of synthesist summoner. Else, i'd go druid, all the way. If you're not likely to have access to tons of wilding clasps anyway, you lose little from having worse gear.

Or you could play a monk :smalltongue:

[Chilingsworth]

OK, maybe I should clarify abit, I was kinda distracted when I first posted the thread.

Anyway, The problem isn't that we get ~no~ treasure, it's that we have next to no control over what we get, and have to use whatever we find. So, I'd like some ideas for builds that aren't gear-dependant. Any useful gear I find would then be a bonus.

[Arundel]

May I submit the humble Binder?

Good power, crazy utility, and while mildly gear dependent you can change your focus daily to better fit the gear you end up getting.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Get one level of OA Samurai, you now have two weapons (Katana and Wakizashi typically) which you can sacrifice wealth into to upgrade as you wish. Note that even if the party can only sell loot for 25% of its face value, you can put 100% of its face value toward upgrading your weapons, so buy that loot from the party pool at 25%!

Take Ancestral Relic from BoED, and designate your armor as your relic. Talk to your DM about starting out with some decent armor, and explain that it's been in the character's family for generations and that if he were ever to die another family member would show up to collect it, rather than it going toward the rest of the party. You can sacrifice wealth and items into your armor now too, to upgrade it as you please. Again, buy loot from the party pool at a fraction of its value and sacrifice its full value into your armor.

Note that for both of those, there's a limit on how powerful its magical properties can be, but no limit to how much value can be stored in each item ahead of time. Also, you can put properties into the weapons that are priced as flat gp costs instead of +X equivalent, such as Sudden Stunning (DMG2), Illuminating (MIC), Balance (OA), and Displacement (OA), regardless of the +X limit given by your character level. Also note that the limit for upgrading your daisho is based on your character level, not your class level, so you could take one or two Samurai levels and then multiclass into something else. I'd go OA Samurai 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8 for the final build.

[Chilingsworth]

Tragically, Binder isn't available, neither are non-3.5 sources and the BOED.

Basically, I've got Core, ToB, The Completes (Minus Lion-totem Barbarian) Incarnum, Psionics, Races of Stone, Destiny, and the Wild. Oh, and Heroes of Horror and Heroes of Battle

I considered Incarnum, but I'm not sure how to play one effectively. Could someone link me to handbooks for the various incarnum classes?

Thanks.

[Greenish]

Totemist handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2943.0) and Incarnate handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6920.20). There's no 3rd class.

[Edit]: If spirit lion totem barbarian is banned, I wouldn't get my hopes up for totemist either. Melee, you know.

[Talentless]

Tragically, Binder isn't available, neither are non-3.5 sources and the BOED.

Basically, I've got Core, ToB, The Completes (Minus Lion-totem Barbarian) Incarnum, Psionics, Races of Stone, Destiny, and the Wild.

I considered Incarnum, but I'm not sure how to play one effectively. Could someone link me to handbooks for the various incarnum classes?

Thanks.

Well, you have core, so you could be a bear riding a bear summoning more bears while giving all the bears magic fangs.

druids don't require to much in the way of gear to actually be effective

[HappyBlanket]

[Edit]: If spirit lion totem barbarian is banned, I wouldn't get my hopes up for totemist either. Melee, you know.

I wouldn't worry about that. They permitted Tome of Battle, which I think says more about the group's stance on melee than banning SLT does.

[JaronK]

Some classes are so strong they don't need gear: Druids, for example. Some are really flexible so they can change roles to suit their gear: Binders, for example. And some just remake the gear into something awesome: Artificers.

JaronK

[Gnaeus]

Basically, I've got Core, ToB, The Completes (Minus Lion-totem Barbarian) Incarnum, Psionics, Races of Stone, Destiny, and the Wild. Oh, and Heroes of Horror and Heroes of Battle


With that list, I second Druid. With a couple of item crafting feats to help your friends.

Alternately, Chameleon is in RoD and is pretty flexible, and (with the right entry, like bard or trickery cleric) can craft needed gear with floating feat.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Nonpsionic Thri-Kreen (MM2, Shining South, lose the Naturally Psionic and Psi-Like Ability traits and LA is only +1), LA +1/ HD 2/ Monk 1/ Soulknife 2/ Soulbow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2) 1, with LA buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm). Get Multiweapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#multiweaponFighting) and the Improved (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedMultiweaponFighting) and Greater (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#greaterMultiweaponFighting) versions, Zen Archery, and go Wis > Dex > Con. Monk bonus feat should be Stunning Fist. Fire four Mind Arrows per round, at Soulbow 2 put the Lucky property on them so every arrow that initially misses gets a reroll. Be sure to take Woodland Archer from Races of the Wild.

[Arundel]

Nonpsionic Thri-Kreen (MM2, Shining South, lose the Naturally Psionic and Psi-Like Ability traits and LA is only +1), LA +1/ HD 2/ Monk 1/ Soulknife 2/ Soulbow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2) 1, with LA buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm). Get Multiweapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#multiweaponFighting) and the Improved (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedMultiweaponFighting) and Greater (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#greaterMultiweaponFighting) versions, Zen Archery, and go Wis > Dex > Con. Monk bonus feat should be Stunning Fist. Fire four Mind Arrows per round, at Soulbow 2 put the Lucky property on them so every arrow that initially misses gets a reroll. Be sure to take Woodland Archer from Races of the Wild.

Aren't two of those three classes panned as terrible? I am not too familiar with soulbow.

[HappyBlanket]

Aren't two of those three classes panned as terrible? I am not too familiar with soulbow.The Fighter is panned as terrible too, but some of the strongest melee builds in the game have a two level dip in it. So, really they're only terrible on their own :D

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Aren't two of those three classes panned as terrible? I am not too familiar with soulbow.

Soulbow fires mind bullets that get your Wis bonus to damage, it requires Soulknife 2 and 5th level to enter, and Monk 1 adds your Wis bonus to AC and fills in that one level before you qualify for Soulbow. With Zen Archery the character is SAD for Wis, though Dex is necessary for the Multiweapon Fighting feats later on.

An alternative would be something like Whisper Gnome, Swordsage 1/ Soulknife 2/ Swordsage 2/ Soulbow 1+, and pick up more Swordsage later on. Use TWF with Mind Arrows and use your maneuvers for tricks and versatility instead of strikes.

[mabriss lethe]

well, warlocks and DFAs are relatively independent of gear.

If you want melee mayhem, go TOB. Maneuvers make melee types much less dependent upon equipment for certain effects. Swordsage (especially the Unarmed Swordsage variant) can effective with anything or nothing at hand.

[The_Jackal]

Craft Item Feats. Problem solved.

[Psyren]

Psion/Ardent; go anywhere, do anything

Incarnum/Binding are good too

[TwylyghT]

Bards are pretty good, and while easy access to gear helps them like it would anyone else I think they can do good enough in a low gear setting. If you can get Song of the Heart from Eberron and toss in Inspirational Boost inspire courage can ramp up real fast, and that's like getting the entire party magic weapons in one swoop.

It should all work out well as long as the DM remembers hes running a low gear/wealth setting. I had one run a world with no magic weapons at all once (to the point the spell magic weapon was banned), but 9/10 encounters seemed to DR 20+/Magic...

[Person_Man]

I agree with the idea that any Tier 1 or 2 class can get by fine with minimal grear.

You probably won't be able to use it, but I have a homebrew class that does exactly what you're looking for without using Vow of Poverty, called the Forsaker Totemist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172094). I've play tested it, as have a few othe Playgrounders, with good results. It's about the same power level as a normal Totemist with regular Wealth by level, and would be superior to a normal Totemist in a low gear/wealth setting.

If you feel like going down into the normal Totemist, optimization is actually fairly simple once you figure out the slightly wonky Incarnum rules. Just look at all the ways you can get extra attacks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7066595), and stack Unarmed Strike with a bunch of natural weapons from different efficient sources (primarily soulmelds, but also a various cheap magic items). Pick up Pounce and damage boosts (also offered by soulmelds) and your choice of mobility, breath weapon, and Skill based soulmelds, and you're set.

In my opinion the Incarnate is actually stronger then the Totemist, but it's much more difficult to optimize. Incarnate soulmelds are good at some levels but useless at others, and so you really need to know what you're doing. The Incarnate also benefits greatly from multi-classing in the short run, but often needs to go strait Incarnate or Incarnate/PrC in the long run. It all depends very heavily on your level, books allowed, and play style.