Question about Gestalt.

[Mystic Muse]

Alright. I'm currently joining a Gestalt game and I was wondering something. If I were playing a level 30 gestalt character, could I make my build like this,

Cleric 10/Sorcerer10/Wizard 10
Sorcerer10/Wizard10/Cleric 10

and have it come out as Cleric 20, Wizard 20 and Sorcerer 20, or do all levels of a class have to be taken on the same side of a gestalt? Naturally, you couldn't take the two at the exact same time to get Cleric 20 in 10 levels, but I'm looking through the SRD and there doesn't seem to be an answer.

I may have explained things poorly. What I'm looking to do is attempt to get all the benefits of a class, but have the levels spread out on two different sides of the gestalt. I don't see any particular rule against this, but I was wondering if I was missing something.

EDITED: In the hopes that it might make more sense.

[Flickerdart]

You are effectively taking Cleric 20//Rogue 5/Fighter 10/Rogue 5. So there is no possible conflict with such a rule even if it existed.

Dammit, you changed the classes.

[Randomguy]

I can't find anything against it in the gestalt rules, but you should probably ask your DM just in case.

[mootoall]

This is "Oh, we didn't actually think all of Gestalt through" rules territory. I've seen it ruled that it works (in the case of a Warblade 10/Crusader 10/Swordsage 10//Crusader 10/Swordsage 10/Warblade 10), but there is no RAW to it.

[AmberVael]

Yes you can, because there are no "sides" to a gestalt. That's merely a construct people tend to use to make sense of gestalt builds.

[Mystic Muse]

You are effectively taking Cleric 20//Rogue 5/Fighter 10/Rogue 5. So there is no possible conflict with such a rule even if it existed.

Dammit, you changed the classes.

Sorry. I was hoping to make my question clearer.

[Jude_H]

Gestalt isn't a complete ruleset.

I'd allow it.

[GoatBoy]

I'd allow it, if for no other reason that it makes notoriously flavourful-yet-weak prestige classes (Acolyte of the Skin, Green Star Adept, I'm looking at you) playable because you can just pick up the lost caster levels on the other side of your progression.

[Woodzyowl]

Oh, what was the build I came up with...

Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge4/Wizard 6/Cerebremancer 6
//
Wizard 3/Psion 4/Psychic Theurge 6/Cleric 6

You have 19th level divine and arcane casting and 18th level psionics at level 20. Which goes to show how broken Gestalt can get. Don't even get me started on substituting in prestige classes (Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, I'm looking at you). With how vague the rules are, that build very effectively works, as far as I know, by the RAW.

[2xMachina]

Oh, what was the build I came up with...

Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge4/Wizard 6/Cerebremancer 6
//
Wizard 3/Psion 4/Psychic Theurge 6/Cleric 6

You have 19th level divine and arcane casting and 18th level psionics at level 20. Which goes to show how broken Gestalt can get. Don't even get me started on substituting in prestige classes (Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, I'm looking at you). With how vague the rules are, that build very effectively works, as far as I know, by the RAW.

RAW, maybe, but there's a line saying Double Progression PrCs shouldn't be allowed. Most DM's will follow that 'suggestion', so no MT or CBM or PT.

EDIT: RE: OP
I don't think there's sides.
Rather, you're taking 10 lvls of Cleric+Sorc gestalt class, 10 lvls of Sorc+Wiz class, and 10 lvls of Wix+Cleric class.

Cleric 10/Sorcerer10/Wizard 10
Sorcerer10/Wizard10/Cleric 10

[Vladislav]

It's not a rule, but it's customary to ban dual-progressing PrCs (prestige classes that progress more than one kind of spellcasting) in Gestalt. Precisely for those reasons.

[Retech]

Doesn't the Omnimancer have level 20 casting in a buncha things without even being gestalt?

[Mystic Muse]

Doesn't the Omnimancer have level 20 casting in a buncha things without even being gestalt?

Possibly. I've never heard of that though, which means it probably isn't official.

[herrhauptmann]

Possibly. I've never heard of that though, which means it probably isn't official.
It's probably a nickname for a semi-legit very questionable build, like Pun Pun. Or that antipunpun that uses Craft: Basketweaving to kill Pun Pun (somehow).

Vladislav:
I think gestalt might say you can take the dual progression prestige class if you meet the prereqs on one side of the build. Say: Wiz5/Clr5/MT10//Factotum20 And if it doesn't, it seems like it'd be an effective houserule.

My question, instead of doing 3 base classes for 20 levels, why not do:
Cleric 10/Sorc PrC 10/Wizard 10
Sorcerer10/Wizard10/Cleric PrC 10

Hmmm, wouldn't you be prevented from using 6th level wizard spells with that type of progression? I always get a little mixed up by epic+casters: Pretty sure that once you hit 20th level, you don't actually gain new spell levels when you level up. Which is why an epic swiftblade character would wait until level 21 or later to finish the swiftblade PrC.

Sorry for the slight derailment.

[tonberrian]

Yes you can, because there are no "sides" to a gestalt. That's merely a construct people tend to use to make sense of gestalt builds.

This.

Like, exactly. I've even been meaning to use this exact phrasing before.

[Metahuman1]

Huh. it's rules as written. It's almost certainly not rules as intended.

I'd do it if the DM allows.

Course if I was the DM, I'd beat you over the head with a book, then allow it on a trial bases because I hate to use "Because I said no" as an answer if I can possibly help it.

Most DM's I've played with probably wouldn't be comfortable with it unless you tempered your spell selection though. I.E., healbotting with the cleric, Buffing with Sorcerer or wizard and blasting with the remaining Arcane class.

[tonberrian]

Huh. it's rules as written. It's almost certainly not rules as intended.

I'd do it if the DM allows.

Course if I was the DM, I'd beat you over the head with a book, then allow it on a trial bases because I hate to use "Because I said no" as an answer if I can possibly help it.

Most DM's I've played with probably wouldn't be comfortable with it unless you tempered your spell selection though. I.E., healbotting with the cleric, Buffing with Sorcerer or wizard and blasting with the remaining Arcane class.

So you'd hit the player of a Cleric 2//Sorcerer 1/Wizard 1 for trying to take Sorcerer//Wizard as his next level? Because that's what this works out to in its simplest form.

[HunterOfJello]

You can via the RAW rules. I'd allow it as a DM as long as you aren't trying to use ToB base classes. That would be way too freaking complicated. (I've already set a rule that PCs can only go into 2 ToB classes per character in my current game.)

[Metahuman1]

So you'd hit the player of a Cleric 2//Sorcerer 1/Wizard 1 for trying to take Sorcerer//Wizard as his next level? Because that's what this works out to in its simplest form.

No, I would however hit them for trying too get full casting out of all three classes so that all three classes are progressing as though they had just taken straight levels in them. This is not a Tristalt game.

And it's also worth noting I can't DM for crap anyway.

[Greenish]

You can via the RAW rules. I'd allow it as a DM as long as you aren't trying to use ToB base classes. That would be way too freaking complicated.How so? :smallconfused:

[Edit]:
No, I would however hit them for trying too get full casting out of all three classes so that all three classes are progressing as though they had just taken straight levels in them.20 levels of casting out of 30 levels isn't full casting, it's 2/3 casting. :smallamused:

[Xtomjames]

It should be noted that for the purpose of Gestalt building there is no favored class penalty and no continuation penalty with multiclassing (except for such classes that demand rigid affirmation, as per say a Monk or Knight that can't become an Ex-monk or ex-knight if they wish to retain their abilities). Thus the build is perfectly fine.

You may also do parallel racial classes and standard classes to avoid LA using gestalt builds (so long as the HD for an LA creature is given in whole, such as the Archon Hound.)

[herrhauptmann]

No, I would however hit them for trying too get full casting out of all three classes so that all three classes are progressing as though they had just taken straight levels in them. This is not a Tristalt game.


The build would normally be written as:
Cleric 10/Sorcerer 11-20/Wizard 11-20//Sorcerer10/Wizard10/Cleric +10

The OP did mention a 30th level gestalt, not a 20th level triple gestalt.