Absorption: Never run out of spells again!

[Cruiser1]

While contemplating "magic is powerful", I was trying to figure out just how many spells can break the game. :smallamused: I decided to go through the Spell Compendium until I found an overpowered spell. Sure enough, the second spell printed in that book can be exploited. The spell Absorption (SpC) can easily be used to give you infinite spells!

Not running out of spells is of course very powerful. You can nova at will, face many encounters per day without private demiplane cheese, and so on. For example, my character wants to build a castle as a base of operations, e.g. I want this 10 floor castle (http://www.astrolog.org/labyrnth/daedalus/castle.jpg). However I don't want to spend the large fees in the Stronghold Builder's Guide. Instead I want to spam Wall of Stone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfStone.htm) and construct most of my castle for free with magic. Unfortunately, even at caster level 20, it will take about 20000 castings of Wall of Stone to create the volume of stone needed. Spending all level 5+ slots on casting Wall of Stone every day will take about two years, where I want to create my castle in just a day or so. :smalltongue:

Absorption is a spell that absorbs spells or spell-like abilities targeted at you, giving you a separate set of what amounts to psionic power points to use to cast your own spells. Each spell absorbed gives you one point per spell level, and spells can be cast using one point per level. For example, if you absorb a Disintegrate (level 6), you can cast Fireball (level 3) twice for free.

One casting of Absorption will absorb 6+1d4 levels of spells. What you want to do is Maximize it when cast, which will absorb 10 spell levels. Once 10 levels are absorbed and you have 10 points, use 9 of them to cast Absorption again and continually repeat the process. Each time through gives you another free point which can be used in casting other spells for free. For extra speed, apply additional metamagic if possible such as Empower, Twin, and/or Repeat spell. With psionics it's easy to see infinite power point loops, however techniques for infinite arcane spells don't seem to be as well known.

Absorption is a 9th level spell, and Maximize is +3 level, so casting it Maximized many times in a row requires certain class features. For example, take the feat Arcane Thesis (Absorption), and two +0 slot metamagic feats (such as Invisible spell and Sanctum spell), to cast it Maximized in a 9th level slot. Alternatively you can take one level in the Spelldancer PrC (which annoyingly has a four feat entry tax) along with a means to be immune to exhaustion and ability damage.

To absorb spells, you need to have a class feature, item, or ally that can spam a spell or spell-like ability on you, to charge your spell points. For example with the Half Fey template you can Charm Person yourself 10 times in a row, or with a Ring of Telekinesis you can do violent thrust on yourself twice. My favorite way is to cast Call Faithful Servants (BoED) to bring in Musteval Guardinals that stay with you for a year. Once you have 10 of them, have them all ready actions to cast their at will Magic Missile on you the moment you cast Absorption, so you get your spell points with no delay. Repeating the process gives you one spell point per round, or a free 9th level spell every 54 seconds.

The Red Wizard's Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9309.0) has the good idea of putting Absorption inside a casting of Energy Transformation Field (SpC). That has the downside of costing 5000 gold and 250 XP, however once set up you effectively get Absorption cast (and hence another 9 spell points) for free. If Absorption is cast for free, you also don't need to Maximize it. However the Maximized Absorption route has the benefit of being completely portable with no gold/XP costs.

[tyckspoon]

I just wanted to note that Empowered Absorption alone also has this effect (minimum rolled result is 7, adding half of that with Empower gets you to 10), with potential for a greater upper bound- if you roll that 4, for a total result of 10, you get 15 spell levels off the Empowered version. Which is enough absorbed magic to cast your next Absorption and a Wall of Stone.. so, yeah, just work with Empowered Absorption as the base. Better results and requires a lower initial investment because of only having +2 levels to mitigate away.

[ericgrau]

There are some at-will magic items for unlimited spells, though I dunno off the top of my head if any of them target creatures.

EDIT: Aha, helm of telepathy, 27,000 gp, read your own thoughts at will then absorb the spells. I'm sure there's a cheaper option somewhere but now I know at least one option exists. I also saw many others that were cheaper but merely work "like the spell". In particular a hat of disguise is only 1800.

[Cruiser1]

I just wanted to note that Empowered Absorption alone also has this effect (minimum rolled result is 7, adding half of that with Empower gets you to 10).Unfortunately that's now how Empower spell works. Empower spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#empowerSpell) only multiplies by 1.5 the randomly rolled part of a spell. With Absorption, only the variable 1d4 part gets multiplied, not the flat 6. In other words, rolls of 1,2,3,4 go to 1.5,3,4.5,6 rounding to 1,3,4,6. Adding the 6 gives average Empowered absorption levels of 7,9,10,12 which sometimes breaks even, but other times doesn't.

Also, the Absorption result is "rolled secretly by the DM". It works much better if you know exactly how many spell levels you need to cast on yourself. Otherwise (for example with my Magic Missile casting allies) you may take unexpected damage.

EDIT: Aha, helm of telepathy, 27,000 gp, read your own thoughts at will then absorb the spells. I'm sure there's a cheaper option somewhere but now I know at least one option exists. I also saw many others that were cheaper but merely work "like the spell". In particular a hat of disguise is only 1800.Absorption only absorbs ranged spells that are targeted at you (e.g. touch spells are specifically said as not working). I'm not sure if Hat of Disguise would work for this, because that item emulates the Disguise Self (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disguiseSelf.htm) spell, which is range "personal". Helm of Telepathy definitely doesn't work unfortunately, because that item emulates Detect Thoughts (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectThoughts.htm), which is an cone shaped emanation instead of a targetted spell.

[tyckspoon]

Unfortunately that's now how Empower spell works. Empower spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#empowerSpell) only multiplies by 1.5 the randomly rolled part of a spell. With Absorption, only the variable 1d4 part gets multiplied, not the flat 6. In other words, rolls of 1,2,3,4 go to 1.5,3,4.5,6 rounding to 1,3,4,6. Adding the 6 gives average Empowered absorption levels of 7,9,10,12 which sometimes breaks even, but other times doesn't.


Find your physical copy of the PHB. Check Empower. Specifically, make a note of the spell it uses as the example (it's Magic Missile.) I don't think it's coincidental that they used a spell that's Droll + static number as the example, and it's quite clear that the entire sum gets empowered... and I rather wish they'd included that example in the SRD text, as it's an important rules clarification.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Find your physical copy of the PHB. Check Empower. Specifically, make a note of the spell it uses as the example (it's Magic Missile.) I don't think it's coincidental that they used a spell that's Droll + static number as the example, and it's quite clear that the entire sum gets empowered... and I rather wish they'd included that example in the SRD text, as it's an important rules clarification.

Magic Missle adds 1 per 1d4, Absorbtion doesn't add 6 for every 1d4.

[tyckspoon]

Magic Missle adds 1 per 1d4, Absorbtion doesn't add 6 for every 1d4.

gggg.. no, the point is that Magic Missile's normal result is not (1d4)+1, it's (1d4+1); that is, the spell generates a range from 2-5, and those are the numbers you base the Empower on. Similarly, Absorption gives you from 7-10 levels worth of absorption, and the Empowered range is thus (7x1.5) to (10x1.5), not 6 + (1d4x1.5).

[Weezer]

I'm away from my books right now but would the reserve feats work? If they did then all you'd need was to sacrifice one spell slot and a feat for infinite spells, sounds like a pretty good tradeoff to me. Or failing that take a dip into warlock to absorb eldrich blast.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I'm away from my books right now but would the reserve feats work? If they did then all you'd need was to sacrifice one spell slot and a feat for infinite spells, sounds like a pretty good tradeoff to me. Or failing that take a dip into warlock to absorb eldrich blast.

How do reserve feats give you infinite spells? Also, not finding anything that replicates Wall of Stone as a reserve feat.

[tyckspoon]

Pretty sure he meant for charging the Absorptions. And no, that doesn't work- Absorption specifies Spells and Spell-Likes, Reserve feats are Supernatural. It also has to be a targeted effect, so Eldritch Blast won't work; you have to find a Least invocation that you can target yourself with. I'm not sure there *are* any, actually..

[Metahuman1]

Hmmmmmmm,

I've got this idea to trap a Rod/Staff/Other Nifty Magic item with 2 spell traps, one that set's off a casting of Empowered or Maximized (Which ever the thread ultimately agrees works best.) Absorption, and then the other one set's off the predicted number of Magic Missiles that you need to get the most out of the set up of the trap!

Now, for a simple Free action to grab the traps trigger and let go, you get 10 or more spell points to use to cast extra spells, meaning that you should be able to do it at least once if not twice (Or more depending on the DM.) a round. Thus, you get more a round then you should need till your WAY the hell into epic levels, and thus, you can never run out of spells.

You know, I may have to do that in a game at some point.

[Weezer]

Pretty sure he meant for charging the Absorptions. And no, that doesn't work- Absorption specifies Spells and Spell-Likes, Reserve feats are Supernatural. It also has to be a targeted effect, so Eldritch Blast won't work; you have to find a Least invocation that you can target yourself with. I'm not sure there *are* any, actually..

Yup, that's what I meant, I had a feeling it wouldn't quite workd. Darn.

[Jack_Simth]

One casting of Absorption will absorb 6+1d4 levels of spells. What you want to do is Maximize it when cast, which will absorb 10 spell levels. Once 10 levels are absorbed and you have 10 points, use 9 of them to cast Absorption again and continually repeat the process. Each time through gives you another free point which can be used in casting other spells for free.
There is an assumption in the above: The pool of spell energy stacks with itself.

You cast the maximized Absorption, putting yourself at 10 points of absorption available to fill. You then absorb ten levels of spell-like abilities, getting you ten points of absorption to spend. You then use nine of those points to cast Absorption again, and have ten points to fill, and one point to spend. This is not in argument.

The question becomes: What happens when you absorb more spells?

The assumption underlying this strategy is that the non-expended points all stack; after you've absorbed ten more levels of spells, you have 11 points to expend. This may not be the case. If you check out the stacking effects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#stackingEffects) portion of the magic overview, you've got
In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies. - so you may have two pools: One of ten points, one of one point... but only the best pool applies, so you've only got ten points you can actually use. Not all DM's will rule this way... but it's definitely something to think about.

Oh, and you can burn a ninth level spell slot (and four feats, although Silent Spell, Still Spell, and Quicken Spell are all quite useful...) to get a 1st level spell usable at-will as a spell-like ability (Innate Spell, from Complete Arcane). Pick something simple that's not going to hurt you when targeted on yourself if you lose count (like, say, Feather Fall or Reduce Person), and you're set.

[dextercorvia]

There is an assumption in the above: The pool of spell energy stacks with itself.

You cast the maximized Absorption, putting yourself at 10 points of absorption available to fill. You then absorb ten levels of spell-like abilities, getting you ten points of absorption to spend. You then use nine of those points to cast Absorption again, and have ten points to fill, and one point to spend. This is not in argument.

The question becomes: What happens when you absorb more spells?

The assumption underlying this strategy is that the non-expended points all stack; after you've absorbed ten more levels of spells, you have 11 points to expend. This may not be the case. If you check out the stacking effects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#stackingEffects) portion of the magic overview, you've got - so you may have two pools: One of ten points, one of one point... but only the best pool applies, so you've only got ten points you can actually use. Not all DM's will rule this way... but it's definitely something to think about.

Oh, and you can burn a ninth level spell slot (and four feats, although Silent Spell, Still Spell, and Quicken Spell are all quite useful...) to get a 1st level spell usable at-will as a spell-like ability (Innate Spell, from Complete Arcane). Pick something simple that's not going to hurt you when targeted on yourself if you lose count (like, say, Feather Fall or Reduce Person), and you're set.

This. However, if you have the Empowered version, you will have better pools. It will always give you enough to replicate itself, and then often enough to cast your Wall of Stone (or whatever). I'm sure there are other spells worth spamming.

[Randomguy]

:smallsigh: This isn't infinite spells. You'd need to cast another maximized absorption, not another regular absorption. And arcane thesis can't reduce metamagic spells to having an adjustment of less than +1, so your trick with maximize, sanctum spell and invisible spell wouldn't work. You'd need a bunch of other things, like 10 levels of the incantrix PRC and the practical metamagic feat, which only works for dragonbloods.

Twin spell would work, but only if twinning the spell twins the absorption pool, since twinned absorption absorbs at least 14 levels of spells and uses up a 13th level slot. Empowered would work as well, but only if you didn't roll a 1.

To avoid the staking pools problem (with enhance, not twinned) just spend your extra points BEFORE casting absorption.

[tyckspoon]

:smallsigh: This isn't infinite spells. You'd need to cast another maximized absorption, not another regular absorption. And arcane thesis can't reduce metamagic spells to having an adjustment of less than +1, so your trick with maximize, sanctum spell and invisible spell wouldn't work. You'd need a bunch of other things, like 10 levels of the incantrix PRC and the practical metamagic feat, which only works for dragonbloods.


..read the things you're talking about. Please. Arcane Thesis is limited to the spell's original level. Many *other* metamagic reducers are limited to that +1, but Arcane Thesis only cares that you are not taking the spell below what it originally was. The spell itself, mind, not the individual metamagics- it's unique in this regard, AFAIK, and is the reason it usually shows up in this kind of shenanigannery.

And Twin Spell has the same stacking issues; it doesn't double the spell effect. It casts the spell twice, which is usually the same thing..unless you're casting variable buffs on yourself, or doubling up a single target with Ray of Enfeeblement or similar, in which case you get the same spell, different strengths overlap.

[Cruiser1]

Find your physical copy of the PHB. Check Empower. Specifically, make a note of the spell it uses as the example (it's Magic Missile.) I don't think it's coincidental that they used a spell that's Droll + static number as the example, and it's quite clear that the entire sum gets empowered... and I rather wish they'd included that example in the SRD text, as it's an important rules clarification.

For example, an empowered magic missile deals 1-1/2 times its normal damage (roll 1d4+1 and multiply the result by 1-1/2 for each missile).
Wow, you're right! :smallbiggrin: It looks like Magic Missile (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicMissile.htm) indeed multiplies the total (numeric formula containing a variable result) by 1.5, instead of just the (variable component within a numeric formula) by 1.5. Note that means Empowered Magic Missile (doing 3,4,6,7 damage) has the exact same average damage as Maximized Magic Missile (5 damage always).

Applying this to Absorption's 6+1d4 levels, Empowered gives 10,12,13,15 levels, while Maximize gives 10 levels always, making Empowered Absorption strictly better than Maximized Absorption in all cases, and for a lower level spell slot! :smalleek:

Does Empower multiply the whole formula by 1.5 for a spell like Fire Trap (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fireTrap.htm) that does (1d4 + caster level) in damage? Assuming level 20, Fire Trap normally does 21-24 damage, Maximized Fire Trap does 24 damage always, but Empowered Fire Trap does 31-36 damage, which is always much better than Maximize!

This isn't infinite spells. You'd need to cast another maximized absorption, not another regular absorption. And arcane thesis can't reduce metamagic spells to having an adjustment of less than +1.Actually, the Arcane Thesis feat can reduce Metamagic level adjustment costs to 0. The only limitation with Arcane Thesis is that it can't reduce costs below 0. (Other Metamagic adjustment feats such as Easy Metamagic and Practical Metamagic do have a limitation of not being able to reduce below a +1 adjustment, but we're not using them here.) See the Metamagic Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207382) for details. Therefore, we can continually cast Maximized Absorptions from 9th level spell slots indefinitely, to get infinite spells! :smallcool:

[sreservoir]

empower and maximize's edge cases weren't really properly thought over when they were written.

[Cruiser1]

so you may have two pools: One of ten points, one of one point... but only the best pool applies, so you've only got ten points you can actually use. Not all DM's will rule this way... but it's definitely something to think about.That's a good ruling, if for no other reason that it helps make infinite spells a little more challenging to pull off. You can still loop it, if you cast Absorption, cast a spell or two, cast Absorption, cast a spell or two, etc. However you can't cycle Absorption 100 times in a row at the beginning of the day and end up with a stack of hundreds of free points allowing you to ultra-nova dozens of 9th level spells all at once later.

However, the spell not stacking does raise interesting issues of what the "best" version of spell to consider active is. Suppose I cast Twinned Absorption. I now have (assuming a low random roll) two pools of 7 points, with only one visible and active. A Disintegrate spell is aimed at me, which is absorbed. The first casting now has 6 usable points, and 1 spell level left to absorb. Which spell is now active? In one case (e.g. I'm in combat and out of normal spells) I really want the version with 6 usable points to cast something. However, if another Disintegrate spell hits me, I really want the version of Absorption that hasn't absorbed anything yet to be active.

Does the answer change if I use say 3 of those 6 usable points to cast Fireball? The first casting now has 3 usable points and 1 spell level left to absorb, and the second has 7 levels left to absorb. Also, when exactly and how fast does a switchover to a different instance happen? Suppose a Power Word Stun (8th level) comes in (and we assume Absorption instances prefer absorbing spells to allowing you to cast spells). Can the instance with 7 levels absorb part of it and the instance with 1 level absorb the rest of it?

This. However, if you have the Empowered version, you will have better pools. It will always give you enough to replicate itself, and then often enough to cast your Wall of Stone (or whatever). I'm sure there are other spells worth spamming.Indeed, Empowered gives you up to 15 points, enough for a free 6th level spell. If you get fewer points, just try again since you can indeed always still repeat the Absorption. Note at epic levels if you apply Intensify Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#intensifySpell), you'll always get a pool of 20 points, enough to spam an arbitrary 9th level spell forever (11 free points to use before you cast Absorption again).

[Tyndmyr]

:smallsigh: This isn't infinite spells. You'd need to cast another maximized absorption, not another regular absorption. And arcane thesis can't reduce metamagic spells to having an adjustment of less than +1, so your trick with maximize, sanctum spell and invisible spell wouldn't work. You'd need a bunch of other things, like 10 levels of the incantrix PRC and the practical metamagic feat, which only works for dragonbloods.

Twin spell would work, but only if twinning the spell twins the absorption pool, since twinned absorption absorbs at least 14 levels of spells and uses up a 13th level slot. Empowered would work as well, but only if you didn't roll a 1.

To avoid the staking pools problem (with enhance, not twinned) just spend your extra points BEFORE casting absorption.

Sanctum Spell DOES work for all absorptions cast without being prepared. See, Sanctum Spell will(if not cast in sanctum), flat out lower it by a level by itself. This is separate from the Arcane Thesis effect.

Therefore, each new Absorption costs only 8 points to cast.

More interesting than empowering, what are the effects of Twin or Echo? Echo in particular seems hard to rule out, provided you entirely use the first Absorption before the second one is cast.

So, standard action, cast maximized, sanctum spelled echoing absorption with whatever other cost reducing options are necessary. Your minions expend held actions to target you with ten first level spells.

You then fire off a quickened level six spell.

Next round, the echoed Absorption takes effect. Minions rinse and repeat.

You utilize the points to cast another Absorption, as per step one.

Now, combine with Empower, and giggle with glee. All stacking rules have been bypassed.

Bam. Infinite 9th level spells forever.

[dextercorvia]

If you cast an Absorption, and absorbed 10 levels of spells (say that was all you got out of it), then cast a second which allowed you to absorb 15 levels, they would stack overlap in the following way.

You could use the pool from the first (for now) to cast spells.
You could use the 2nd casting to absorb new spells into a 2nd pool.

When the second pool has more levels in it than the first (either from casting or absorbing or a combination) it becomes dominant and you may only cast spells from that pool.

In other words, you could have pools from multiple castings running at once, but you may only use the current largest one to cast spells. Provided the duration hasn't run out in the interim, you should be able to exhaust all pools.

Of course Arcane Thesis busts this open, but all this really needs is one reducer -- say Easy Metamagic Empower (practical works fine too) -- and a Warlock handy. Now an Empowerd Absorption costs 10 levels, but provides you with at least that much, meaning you may repeat it as many times as you want (within the duration). So you have an incredible number of 1st-5th level spells, and as the duration of your oldest Absorption runs dry, you can cast new ones to take their place.

[Metahuman1]

Would adding the Versitial Spell caster feat break the above open for 6th and above level spells?

[dextercorvia]

Would adding the Versitial Spell caster feat break the above open for 6th and above level spells?

No. That requires honest to goodness slots -- unless you are talking about abusing Sanctum Mage's Lucubration.

You can extend the duration in limited fashion by using your excess pool to cast Mnemonic Enhancer which has a 24 hour duration instead of 10min/level. Long casting time and 3rd level maximum make that not the best choice.

Don't forget that you can use this in conjunction with Pearls of Power or Memento Magicka to "reclaim" the spell you cast for free.

[TurkeyBlizzard]

You then fire off a quickened level six spell.

Next round, the echoed Absorption takes effect. Minions rinse and repeat.

You utilize the points to cast another Absorption, as per step one.
Now, combine with Empower, and giggle with glee. All stacking rules have been bypassed.

Bam. Infinite 9th level spells forever.

For clarification, you mean to repeat each step, using a minion (such as a warlock) as fuel constantly while you are casting your own spells? Or am I missing something here?

[Tyndmyr]

For clarification, you mean to repeat each step, using a minion (such as a warlock) as fuel constantly while you are casting your own spells? Or am I missing something here?

Correct. You have minions with some form of at-will SLA. The exact type is mostly irrelevant, so long as it triggers the absorption.

In practice, you'll probably use some of your first free spells every so often to layer up defenses over yourself and your minions. After all, it's not like you have a shortage of slots.

[TurkeyBlizzard]

You then fire off a quickened level six spell.

Next round, the echoed Absorption takes effect. Minions rinse and repeat.

You utilize the points to cast another Absorption, as per step one.

Now, combine with Empower, and giggle with glee. All stacking rules have been bypassed.

Bam. Infinite 9th level spells forever.

So how do you acquire infinite 9th spells? Quicken adds +4, so that's a max of 5th spells infinite- you're not going to Arcane Thesis your whole spellbook.

[Tyndmyr]

So how do you acquire infinite 9th spells? Quicken adds +4, so that's a max of 5th spells infinite- you're not going to Arcane Thesis your whole spellbook.

Maximized, Empowered Absorption is a total of 15 points, so you could technically blow off very high level slots.

If you were worried about this, though, you could shuffle a maximized absorption into the quickened slot with reduction, and use the standard action casting for the other spell per action. After all, there's no required order.

[TurkeyBlizzard]

Maximized, Empowered Absorption is a total of 15 points, so you could technically blow off very high level slots.

If you were worried about this, though, you could shuffle a maximized absorption into the quickened slot with reduction, and use the standard action casting for the other spell per action. After all, there's no required order.

Ah, okay, that makes sense. I was considering you second solution, to quicken the absorption instead. Perfect. That sounds absolutely doable.