Idea for a Paragon Spear fighter

[Chambers]

Hey all, I've been thinking Paragon levels lately and interesting things for Defenders to do. I've never actually played in a Paragon level game before, so I don't know if this is a good idea or a bad idea, but I've worked out an 11th level Half-Elf Knight (Iron Vanguard) and I'd like some critique.

Note: Technically the magic items are a little off, as Farslayer is a level 13 weapon enhancement, but I'm not concerned about that so much as it's the idea I'm working with.
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Shield and Spear Knight, level 11
Half-Elf, Fighter (Knight), Iron Vanguard
Eldritch Strike Option: Eldritch Strike Constitution
Knight Option: Shield Finesse
Knight Weapon Specialization Option: Bladed Step
Half-Elf Power Selection Option: Dilettante


FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 12, CON 21, DEX 17, INT 12, WIS 17, CHA 9

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 16, DEX 16, INT 11, WIS 12, CHA 8


AC: 30 Fort: 27 Ref: 23 Will: 26
HP: 96 Surges: 14 Surge Value: 24

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +9, Endurance +13, Heal +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +6, Arcana +6, Bluff +4, Diplomacy +6, Dungeoneering +8, History +6, Insight +10, Intimidate +4, Nature +8, Perception +8, Religion +6, Stealth +6, Streetwise +4, Thievery +6

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Fighter Attack: Battle Guardian
Multiple Class Utility: Defender Aura
Fighter Utility: Defend the Line
Fighter Utility: Hammer Hands
Multiple Class Attack: Power Strike
Fighter Utility: Measured Cut
Warlock Attack 1: Eldritch Strike
Fighter Utility 2: Push Forward
Fighter Utility 6: Dauntless Endurance
Fighter Utility 8: Shield Block
Fighter Utility 10: Iron Defiance
Iron Vanguard Attack 11: Frontline Surge

FEATS
Shield Finesse
Level 2: Battering Shield
Level 4: Spear Expertise
Level 6: Polearm Momentum
Level 8: Encouraging Shield
Level 10: Stout Shield
Level 11: Versatile Master
Level 11: Superior Will (retrained lvl 1 Melee Training: Con)

ITEMS
Farslayer Spear +3 x1
Magic Plate Armor +3 x1
Heavy Shield x1
Rushing Cleats (heroic tier) x1
Amulet of Protection +3 x1
====== End ======

The basic idea is to use Dilettante to pick up Eldritch Strike. Versatile Master makes it At-Will at 11th level, and now you have a Knight (which are all about Melee Basic Attacks) with a MBA that uses Constitution for Attack & Damage and has a Slide 1. Use a Spear so you can also use a Shield, because the Battering Shield feat extends the slide by +1. Rushing Cleats add another +1. Encouraging Shield and Stout Shield are defense boosters.

The net effect is that you have a MBA that does a Slide 3, which triggers Polearm Momentum to knock them prone. Defend the Line should be active, so they are also Slowed. When you get another paragon feat, take Shield Push, which adds +1 to the forced movement. This is important because now it's Slide 4 (prone and slowed). When they get back up they are out of charge range (slowed making their speed 2, charge adding +1, putting them 1 square out of charge range from you).

Edit: Though I guess the enemy could run, but they'd just be hurting their own attacks and defenses.

Farslaying is neat because on your turn you can reach out to 5 squares to attack, then slide them 4.

If you want to instead use a two-handed spear, you can drop all the shield feats and use a Staggering Glaive (losing a +1 square from Battering Shield, but picking it back up from Staggering, which is +1 square of slide per enhancement bonus). Also if you go two-handed you should go Polearm Master PP. Polearm Master isn't that great for a one-handed polearm fighter.

Thoughts? Would this hold up well at this level? I don't have experience playing or DM'ing in Paragon so I'm not sure what the benchmarks are.

[NecroRebel]

It works, and is viable; there's several builds similar to the one you've outlined here. Although I'm pretty sure you don't actually need Shield Push; creatures don't get +1 speed while charging AFAIK, so getting them 3 squares away from their target is sufficient to prevent a charge while they're slowed.

The problem with using a spear is that you can't then use the incomparable Polearm Gamble feat, which allows you to take an opportunity attack, and hence your sliding basic attack, when an enemy comes adjacent to you. Using the forced-movement MBA trick, or a forced-movement power with Heavy Blade Opporunity, with Polearm Gamble essentially makes the user immune to melee from creatures without reach, which even in paragon and epic tier many enemies don't.

The use of a spear instead of a reach weapon means that either your weapon choices are severely limited or your trick doesn't really work against enemies with reach, which even though many enemies don't have it, as you level up more and more enemies do. Limiting weapon choices is not always bad, but is worse than the alternative.

[Chambers]

I wasn't sure if charge gave you an extra square of speed or not. Thanks for the clarification.

And wow, Polearm Gamble is sweet. It looks like Glaive and no shield is the better option. Your defenses all go down by 2, but you get to make opportunity attacks versus people coming adjacent to you, and you have reach. That seems pretty solid.

[MeeposFire]

If you multiclass into an arcane class you can get white lotus feats including lotus defense and master defense which will grant you an attack every time you are attacked. This also opens other paragon paths that can be as much help or greater help than iron vanguard. Acadamy master would give you nearly as good extra damage but would give you a usable daily and encounter powers. You could also pick up feats like quicken which can be used with eldritch strike.

As far as polearm gamble it is great but it will be very hard to fit as it requires str and wisdom.

[Hidden Sanity]

I personally prefer the greatspeat over the Glaive as you can pick up impaelling spear to attack reflex instead of AC with eldrich strike.

[Mando Knight]

Plus, Greatspear has a +3 proficiency bonus. Then take the Hafted Defense feat to get your AC back up.

[Master_Rahl22]

Ah, but I like the Spear over a Glaive because of the Swift Spear feat from Dragon 378. When you hit with an OA, you can slide that enemy 1 square to a space adjacent to you. This combined with Mobile Challenge from the same issue (After you hit with your MBA granted by Combat Challenge, you can shift 1 square) means nothing ever can get away from you unless you miss. If they try to shift away, you Combat Challenge then shift with them. If they try to just move, you whack them, slide them back and knock them prone.

I'm playing an Elf Fighter (original PHB version, whatever they're calling it these days) with those feats right now and he is just devastating when he can hit. I chose Elf for help with getting those tasty feats that require DEX and/or WIS and Wild Step because it's really nice to always be able to shift then Footwork Lure. Elven Accuracy helps when I absolutely need to trip somebody, or make sure they can't shift+charge one of my squishies. My DM has told me that when I get into melee with an enemy he just writes them off as being unable to do anything but damage me a bit before it dies. If they get away from me then it's a pleasant surprise. :smallbiggrin:

[Chambers]

Master Rahl

That sounds like a good strategy as well. I'm staying away from Swift Spear with this idea because this guy is more Casey at the bat than keeping enemies near him. He hits them & they go far away and fall down. The idea is to anchor himself next to the Casters and keep knocking the enemies away.

Going with a reach weapon & Polearm Gambit, they only way an enemy could close with him would be if the enemy had reach or readied an action to charge on my turn (thereby denying me the chance to use polearm gambit). Ranged attackers are a problem, but that's what the Wizards for.

[MeeposFire]

Besides you are using eldritch strike so more slides are not really needed at this point (you are what at 3 or 4 square slide already).

[cupkeyk]

I personally prefer the greatspeat over the Glaive as you can pick up impaelling spear to attack reflex instead of AC with eldrich strike.

Impaling spear affects only basic attacks, not your at wills. It is still very good because opportunity attacks and combat challenge attacks are a fighters bread and butter (except for the heavy blade opportunist who have a wider and better array of options).

A really nice addition though is pinning challenge. if they make a mistake of triggering n OA or IA from Combat challenge (or if you spent feats/items/powers on minor/out of turn/free attacks) then you'd have an opponent that is immobilized very far away from you, rendering most mobs useless for a turn.


Master Rahl

That sounds like a good strategy as well. I'm staying away from Swift Spear with this idea because this guy is more Casey at the bat than keeping enemies near him. He hits them & they go far away and fall down. The idea is to anchor himself next to the Casters and keep knocking the enemies away.

Going with a reach weapon & Polearm Gambit, they only way an enemy could close with him would be if the enemy had reach or readied an action to charge on my turn (thereby denying me the chance to use polearm gambit). Ranged attackers are a problem, but that's what the Wizards for.

What you want is Forceful Opportunist.

[Fortuna]

Eldritch strike is a basic attack, though.

[cupkeyk]

Eldritch strike is a basic attack, though.


Nope, you may use it it in place of a melee basic attack but it is not your melee basic attack.

[MeeposFire]

Nope, you may use it it in place of a melee basic attack but it is not your melee basic attack.

No you are incorrect. Eldritch strike says "this power is a melee basic attack". What you are thinking of are powers like howling strike which say "you can use this power instead of a melee basic attack".

There are a number of powers like that.

[Hidden Sanity]

Indeed, you got to watch it, there are powers can can be used 'in place of' and powers that can "As a". Powers that can be used as a melee basic attack get feats and items that affect melee basic attacks; powers used 'in place of' a MBA do not.