Ranged fighter build help?

[maximus25]

I know I'll need really good dex and strength for it to work, well maybe not so much strength as I plan on using crossbows.


What kind of feats should I grab? Is there something better then a fighter for ranged build? It's a low magic campaign, so not many sorcs or wizards. I mostly want a ranged build because everyone else will be melee. We have a rogue, a paladin of slaughter, a monk, and a bard. Really low optimized party, so I don't want to outshine anyone, or be the guy who is better then everyone. I just want to do some good damage and get us through encounters.

I'm pretty sure it's any book not to do with magic, since again, low magic campaign.

Help?

[Randomguy]

I'm pretty sure regular bows are better than crossbows, because of the reload time. You can get a greatbow with the exotic weapon proficiency feat.

Take all of the feats with point blank shot as a prerequisite. Ranged weapon mastery and penetrating shot, from PHB2 are also pretty good.

Complete warrior has sharpshooting, which reduces the bonuses your targets get from cover, as well as ranged disarm, sunder, and pin, which give you some neat things you can do with your bow.

Monted archery and improved mounted archery might be worth getting if you expect to spend lots of time outdoors and on mounts.

You could take the thug alternate class feature from UA which gives you more skill points at the cost of proficiency with some of the heavier armour, which isn't that bad since most heavy armour won't be worth getting since it'll lower your dex bonus to defense.

Get mithral armour, or some other material that'll let you keep as big a dex bonus as possible.

If you feel like you don't need that many feats, you can take the sneak attack fighter ACF and trade your bonus feats for the rogue sneak attack progression.

[gorfnab]

A Swift Hunter (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=103.0) is usually one of the best low magic archery options.

Here are two Swift Hunter builds I've used before

Human Swift Hunter
1. Scout - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2. Scout
3. Scout - Alertness (prereq for SoK)
4. Ranger - (Arcane Hunter ACF), B: Track
5. Scout - B: Swift Hunter
6. Scout - Favored of the Champions (prereq for SoK)
7. Ranger - B: Rapid Shot
8. Stalker of Kharash
9. Stalker of Kharash - Nemesis: Evil
10. Ranger - B: Endurance
11. Ranger - (Distracting Attack ACF)
12. Ranger - Improved Skirmish
13. Ranger - B: Manyshot
14. Ranger
15. Ranger - Greater Manyshot
16. Ranger - (Spell Reflection ACF)
17. Ranger
18. Ranger - Darkstalker, B: Improved Precise Shot
19. Ranger
20. Ranger


Human Swift Hunter
1. Scout - Point Blank Shot, Education
2. Scout
3. Scout - Precise Shot
4. Ranger - (Arcane Hunter ACF), B: Track
5. Scout - B: Swift Hunter
6. Scout - Improved Skirmish
7. Ranger - B: Rapid Shot
8. Ranger - B: Endurance
9. Ranger - (Distracting Attack ACF), Knowledge Devotion
10. Ranger
11. Ranger - B: Manyshot
12. Ranger - Greater Manyshot
13. Ranger
14. Ranger - (Spell Reflection ACF)
15. Ranger - Darkstalker
16. Ranger - B: Improved Precise Shot
17. Ranger
18. Ranger - *Open Feat*
19. Ranger
20. Ranger

*Penetrating Shot, Nemesis: Arcanist, Dead Eye (Drg#304), Deadly Aim (Pathfinder SRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deadly-aim-combat)), or some other appropriate feat. If you're playing in Forgotten Realms take Sword of the Arcane Order at 15th and Darkstalker or Nemesis: Arcanist at 18th.

[TurtleKing]

Well Ranged can be done in a few ways. This also dependent on what race you want to play or can play. Some races are better at certain types of ranged than others. Elves and especially Wood Elves are great with the archery by using Composite Longbows firing a lot of arrows dealing upto on average 5 damage per arrow. Others like a Halfling are better at some of the throwing ranged such as with the Halfling Skiprock. Size even matters since if you are medium you can do just fine with a bow, but if you are small you might need a crossbow to keep up since they deal higher damage with a dice step up.

Since you didn't specify as to whether this is Pathfinder or not you are missing out on a few feats. The ones in question are Deadly Aim which is a ranged Power Attack. The other is Vital Strike that lets you give up an attack to increase the damage dice of another attack. Such as you could either full attack with two attacks dealing 1d8+X from a longbow standing in one spot, or you could give up one to deal 2d8+X and be able to move. This sounds like a benefit with a Scout since they get bonuses on their attack, damage, and AC from moving.

Another ranged option is the Halfling racial substitution for Rogue from RotW. That has you progressing your ranged sneak attack by one step while decreasing you melee sneak attack by one step. So at 1st level you deal +2d6 on a ranged SA, and +0d6 aka no damage on a melee SA.

Another option is to probably be a Gnome and be a flask thrower. Great thing for Gnomes is the Gnome Calculus-larger sling capable of slinging flasks along with the normal ammo- in A&EG is martial to them. So instead of a 10ft range increment you now have a 50ft range increment to lob a Tanglefoot Bag. In that regard might as well go all the way and be an alchemist (not necessarily the PF class). Complete Adventurer or Complete Warrior might have a few feats about alchemy that might help. If you can find a link with the CrystalKeep list of all the alchemical items you can pull off a little "magic". It might be in one of my older threads so take a look through them. Granted this works if alchemy doesn't require you to be able to cast. It is kind of silly to use alchemy you have to be a caster since you do the same and more with the spells.

So just what kind of ranged combat were you looking for? Is it using bows, xbows, or thrown which can be further broken down.

[rexreg]

use Strength adjusted composite longbows...best bang for your buck

[TurtleKing]

This true for putting out the most damage overall without cheese or whatnot. The only thing that can make this ineffective is damage reduction. Using bows is to hit as many times as possible dealing some damage each time. Because of this it doesn't even take all that much in damage reduction to make you ineffective. One way as I put earlier with say a Halfling Rogue doing ranged SAs is dealing alot of damage if you can pull it off. The Flask launcher is not so much as worried about that as he is looking to deal some kind debuff or battlefield control like with a tanglefoot bag. If going Dr. Strangelob might as well use poison while your at it for extra umph.

So do you want to machine gun with a bow, artillery by throwing boulders, trick shots with various thrown and even archery, debuff/aoe/bc with the alchemy, hit and run, or strike from long range dealing alot of damage (hard to do but safer...)?

Edit: Hit and Run includes both the Scout and Mounted as the means.

[maximus25]

It's 3.5 D&D, sorry I always miss something. I can play whatever race, so long as it's core or not too steeped in magic. I was thinking longbows, but I heard there was a good katana throwing build somewhere? I'm really open to anything.

[TurtleKing]

Well all of the options except maybe the Dr. Strangelob are non magical. Just so you know Ranged did not get much love in 3.5. Because of this it is actually going to be you that is have to try to keep up with the rest. So if if you gauge your contributions by damage output then know you might not be keeping up. The way to circumvent this is to instead focus on another way like debuffing or battlefield control.

Here is the link for the Archery Handbook. http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0

I looked for a handbook for thrown weapons, but no one as made one yet. Actually kind of strange why isn't there a thrown weapons handbook? It does get a good bit of love in 3.5.

[Darrin]

I know I'll need really good dex and strength for it to work, well maybe not so much strength as I plan on using crossbows.


Most archery builds don't need anything higher than Dex 17 for Manyshot/Greater Manyshot. Where you get boned is on damage (particularly vs. DR), so the Str bonus on a mighty composite longbow tends to be more important than your attack bonus (which with full BAB is probably already pretty decent).

Crossbow builds tend to focus on sneak attack or skirmish damage, which is a good way to rack up some bonus damage on your ranged attacks. Fighter isn't quite so popular for that (unless you're using the Simple Fighter from UA, which gets sneak attack as a rogue). I think most crossbow builds use Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 16 (via Daring Outlaw) or the various Scout/Ranger Swift Hunter builds. Two feats you'll want to take a look at: Crossbow Sniper (PHBII), which allows precision damage out to 60', and Hand Crossbow Focus (Drow of the Underdark) which folds Rapid Reload and Weapon Focus into one feat.

If you want a "pure archery, no magic" build, then there's an ACF in Complete Champion that lets you trade Ranger spellcasting for a limited selection of bonus feats. My recommendation, a straight-up longbow swift hunter (Manyshot won't work with crossbows):

Race: Human, Silverbrow Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, or Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Scout 1. Feat: Point Blank Shot. Bonus: Travel Devotion. Skirmish +1d6.
2) Ranger 1. Bonus: Track.
3) Ranger 2. Feat: Precise Shot. Bonus: Rapid Shot.
4) Scout 2.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish +1d6+1AC
6) Ranger 3. Feat: Swift Hunter. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish +2d6+1AC.
7) Ranger 4. Bonus: Improved Rapid Shot (Champion of the Wild ACF in CChamp). Skirmish +2d6+2AC
8) Ranger 5.
9) Ranger 6. Bonus: Manyshot, Feat: Greater Manyshot. Skirmish +3d6+2AC.
10) Scout 4. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish +3d6+2AC/+5d6+3AC.
11) Ranger 7. Skirmish +3d6+3AC/+5d6+5AC.
12) Ranger 8. Feat: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bone Bow). Bonus: Far Shot (Champion of the Wild ACF)
13) Ranger 9. Skirmish +4d6+3AC/+6d6+5AC.
14) Ranger 10.
15) Ranger 11. Feat: Dead-Eye (Dragon Compendium), Bonus: Ranged Pin (Champion of the Wild ACF). Skirmish +4d6+4AC/+6d6+6AC.
16) Ranger 12.
17) Ranger 13. Skirmish +5d6+4AC/+7d6+6AC.
18) Highland Stalker 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (can be taken more than once)
19) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish +6d6+4AC/+8d6+6AC.
20) Ranger 14. Bonus: Sharpshooting.

The feats after ECL 10/Improved Skirmish are fungible... the remaining feats available via Champion of the Wild are kinda lousy... but Ranged Pin might come in handy once or twice, and Sharpshooting might help if you're firing at a lot of REMFs hiding behind meatshields. Dead-Eye is pretty obscure, but be aware the BAB +19 requirement is a typo, the errata says it should be BAB +1, and don't confuse it with the craptastic Dead-Eye Shot from PHBII. More Travel Devotion is always good.

For a crossbow build... I'd have to fiddle around with that a lot more, not quite sure how to fit everything in yet... Manyshot is no use, but with Simple Fighter 1/Ranger 4/Highland Stalker 10 can we get Craven in there... hmm.

[gorfnab]

but I heard there was a good katana throwing build somewhere?
Iajustu Katana Chucker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134276)

[ericgrau]

A Swift Hunter (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=103.0) is usually one of the best low magic archery options.

Here are two Swift Hunter builds I've used before

Human Swift Hunter
1. Scout - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2. Scout
3. Scout - Alertness (prereq for SoK)
4. Ranger - (Arcane Hunter ACF), B: Track
5. Scout - B: Swift Hunter
6. Scout - Favored of the Champions (prereq for SoK)
7. Ranger - B: Rapid Shot
8. Stalker of Kharash
9. Stalker of Kharash - Nemesis: Evil
10. Ranger - B: Endurance
11. Ranger - (Distracting Attack ACF)
12. Ranger - Improved Skirmish
13. Ranger - B: Manyshot
14. Ranger
15. Ranger - Greater Manyshot
16. Ranger - (Spell Reflection ACF)
17. Ranger
18. Ranger - Darkstalker, B: Improved Precise Shot
19. Ranger
20. Ranger


Human Swift Hunter
1. Scout - Point Blank Shot, Education
2. Scout
3. Scout - Precise Shot
4. Ranger - (Arcane Hunter ACF), B: Track
5. Scout - B: Swift Hunter
6. Scout - Improved Skirmish
7. Ranger - B: Rapid Shot
8. Ranger - B: Endurance
9. Ranger - (Distracting Attack ACF), Knowledge Devotion
10. Ranger
11. Ranger - B: Manyshot
12. Ranger - Greater Manyshot
13. Ranger
14. Ranger - (Spell Reflection ACF)
15. Ranger - Darkstalker
16. Ranger - B: Improved Precise Shot
17. Ranger
18. Ranger - *Open Feat*
19. Ranger
20. Ranger

*Penetrating Shot, Nemesis: Arcanist, Dead Eye (Drg#304), Deadly Aim (Pathfinder SRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deadly-aim-combat)), or some other appropriate feat. If you're playing in Forgotten Realms take Sword of the Arcane Order at 15th and Darkstalker or Nemesis: Arcanist at 18th.
Not without some sort of swift action teleport/move. Full attacks are nice. The cloistered cleric travel devotion is a nice trick. Eating a -8 to all attacks on greater manyshot not so much. For that matter not making full attacks until level 12 is a bit :smalleek:.

Generally you want rapid shot asap, then precise shot since your'e in a melee party. After that comes the fighter tree feats. The tree is especially nice with your extra attack(s) and low damage per hit. Improved precise shot and improved critical are kind of nice too, if you're not using a lot of books and don't have other feat choices. I'd say ranged weapon mastery and improved rapid shot too but a stackable +2 with almost no pre-reqs for only 1 feat is too good in a low power group.

Don't forget to carry arrows of every metal type and bane arrows of the more common monster types (usually undead). Get +1d6 damage enchantments on your bow rather than enhancement bonuses (except for the required +1). Get boots of speed for haste asap and then lesser bracers of archery. If a certain monster type is common then a 1 level dip into ranger for favored enemy is nice, otherwise for combat a fighter can get all the feats a ranger can get and more. Beg the bard for heroisms for another +2 to hit. At low levels if he gets haste that'll be extremely nice for the whole party; at high levels everyone gets the boots.