i cant think of why this works

[PrimeraEspada09]

Hey playground,

Can someone explain to me what the early entry hack for War Weaver PrC is? i know it takes Dragonsblood Pool + Sanctum Spell which has some way so that you only have to be Sorcerer 3 to get into War Weaver.

i would like an explained reason why this works because i have only heard that it works but have never been told why, so if you could be so kind it would be much appreciated

Thanks Playground

[Wings of Peace]

Hey playground,

Can someone explain to me what the early entry hack for War Weaver PrC is? i know it takes Dragonsblood Pool + Sanctum Spell which has some way so that you only have to be Sorcerer 3 to get into War Weaver.

i would like an explained reason why this works because i have only heard that it works but have never been told why, so if you could be so kind it would be much appreciated

Thanks Playground

Sounds like a third level spell hack. Dragonsblood Pool for a high level slot then Sanctum Spell it up one more level to meet the entry requirements.

[holywhippet]

Sanctum spell metamagic makes a spell effectively one level higher if cast within your sanctum. Dragonsblood pool, if you can find and claim the power from one, provides and extra spell slot for spells of level 1, 2 and 3 provided they are levels you can cast at.

IMO it's a bit dubious. You can argue that sanctum spell lets you cast a spell as though it were level 3. But technically it isn't creating a third level slot which dragonsblood pool can take advantage of. That's assuming you can even find a dragonsblood pool

[PrimeraEspada09]

i can find a dragonsblood pool, my DM already said i could if it was part of creating my character cuz we start at level 8. and the character i have statted out now is Wizard 5 WW 3. but i was looking at the war weaver's handbook black tactica edition and the guy was talking about how Sanctum Spell + Dragonsblood pool lets you enter as a 3rd level sorcerer so i could switch my character from above said wizard and now have it Sorcerer 3 WW 5

[Fouredged Sword]

A sorcerer takeing sanctum spell, heighten spell, versitile spellcaster, and widen spell can enter warweaver as soon as you meet the skill requirements.

- you can sacrifice 2 level 2 spells to cast a 3nd level spell that counts as a t4th level spell in your sanctum.

A wizard needs to use earth spell, heighten, sanctum spell combo to get the same effect.

- you cast a earthspell heightened 1th level spell in a 2nd level slot that counts as a 3rd level spell when you are standing on the ground and a 4th level spell in your sanctum standing on the ground.

- corrected for the spell level req. I am AFB and got it wronge.

[Keld Denar]

You need 3 levels period to meet the skill prereqs. Thats why that is that.

A 1st level Sorcerer can cast 1st level spells. Thus, if he dipped in a Dragonsblood Pool, he'd get an extra 1st level slot. That part is easy.

A 1st level Sorcerer with Sanctum Spell can cast 2nd level spells (in his sanctum). Thus, he has the ability to cast 2nd level spells, and if he were to dip in the Dragonsblood Pool, he would gain a 2nd level spell slot.

With Heighten Spell +1, that same Sorcerer could USE the 2nd level spell slot gained from Dragonsblood Pool to cast a Sanctum Heightened 2nd level spell. This is effectively a 3rd level spell, and thus he would also gain a 3rd level slot, since he can cast 3rd level spells.

With Heighten +2 and Sanctum Spell, this Sorcerer can now cast a 4th level spell (in his sanctum). He thusly qualifies for War Weaver, which requires the ability to cast 4th level spells.

It doesn't matter when or where or how he can cast those spells, only that he has the potential to. Since its all about potential, it all occurs at the same time in the same dip in the pool.

Thats more or less how it works. At least how Doc Roc explained it to me back in the day when he wrote the handbook.

[Amphetryon]

War Weaver's Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5881.0). Note that using the trick with a Favored Soul can get you a ton of versatility as well.

[Pigkappa]

Also explain carefully to your DM how this works, since it is definitely an abuse which works only because those feats were worded in a bad way. Make sure he allows you to do something like this, and you should be honest and just tell him this is a trick to do something the designers didn't want you to do.

[Amphetryon]

Also explain carefully to your DM how this works, since it is definitely an abuse which works only because those feats were worded in a bad way. Make sure he allows you to do something like this, and you should be honest and just tell him this is a trick to do something the designers didn't want you to do.

Do you have a quote to support the part of your statement I bolded?

[Pigkappa]

Do we need a quote for that? This is as cheesy as using Wall of Iron to make infinite money.

[Ernir]

Also explain carefully to your DM how this works, since it is definitely an abuse which works only because those feats were worded in a bad way. Make sure he allows you to do something like this, and you should be honest and just tell him this is a trick to do something the designers didn't want you to do.

The Heighten Spell and Sanctum Spell feats say rather clearly what it is that they do. Further, there is about half a dozen other ways to accomplish the same, so I would consider it being unlikely that this is a complete oversight.

But knowing what the designers "wanted us to do"? Neither of us is a telepath, and the game designers are remarkably silent on what they "intended" to happen in this game.

Do we need a quote for that? This is as cheesy as using Wall of Iron to make infinite money.
Yes, we do.

Also, "cheesy" is a subjective term.

[Quietus]

The Heighten Spell and Sanctum Spell feats say rather clearly what it is that they do. Further, there is about half a dozen other ways to accomplish the same, so I would consider it being unlikely that this is a complete oversight.

But knowing what the designers "wanted us to do"? Neither of us is a telepath, and the game designers are remarkably silent on what they "intended" to happen in this game.

Yes, we do.

Also, "cheesy" is a subjective term.

I don't know, does it seem like it's intended for a combination of poorly worded feats and a puddle of dragon's blood to give a first-level sorcerer third level spell slots, which are then used to cast fourth level spells when he's safe at home? I'd argue that it isn't.

[Pigkappa]

Ok, you guys know you are wrong, so I won't go on with this.

Just remember that many DMs (all the ones I've played with, > 5 recently) are likely to laugh (or worse) at you when you say "...so I can use 3rd level spells and thus join this PrC", so tell him what you're up to instead of just assuming he's ok with it.

[Flickerdart]

It's pretty feat-intensive to do this, though - your need Sanctum Spell, Heighten Spell and Enlarge Spell, and now that you're in War Weaver, you've lost a caster level - so you're a whole spell level behind the Wizard that took Master Specialist or something, entered War Weaver at 6th like a normal person and saved himself two terrible feats and a DMG to the head.