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Yora
2011-08-24, 03:30 AM
I'm planning a campaign for 1st to 8th level characters, in which the worlds most strongest NPCs are 10th or 11th level, with a very few unique individuals in history that made 12th or 13th level. I noticed that this means that spells used by PCs and NPCs are usually limited to 4th level, with only a very few occasions in which 5th level spells might be cast. And that removes really a large number of spells that could become problematic.

Usually, it seems that the most infamous spells are those that have a lot of uses that are not immediately obvious when looking over them. Teleport, Planar Binding, True Seeing, Contingency, and such are among the notorious ones.

But what spells are there at low levels that one has to really watch out for?
Alter Self and Polymorph are the obvious candidates. While Glitterdust and Grease also have doubious reputation, they are simply very good, but won't cause any completely unexpected results.
Anything I should watch out for?

Feytalist
2011-08-24, 03:48 AM
Sort of like an Epic 10? Cool.

I'm thinking of telekinesis, but that's a high level spell on its own. Maybe something like greater mage hand?

Enchantment/illusion spells might have a greater impact than in high-level games. The few E6 games I played, much use was made of a simple charm person.

ShneekeyTheLost
2011-08-24, 03:53 AM
Alter Self. One of the most versatile 2nd level spells in the game.

Polycheese is also possible, since Polymorph is a 4th level spell.

And, of course, nothing is stopping a UPS Man build. Mailman, at least, is hampered by the fact that he uses a minimum of 4th level spells. UPS man uses a 1st level spell. Or, with more feat investment, any area-effect spell.

In fact, I think UPS man can be done as a 1st level character, if you use a flaw...

The feats you need are: Fell Drain, Easy Metamagic, and Arcane Thesis. Everything else is fluff.

NNescio
2011-08-24, 03:54 AM
Silent Image. And that's without shadowcrafting factored in.

ShneekeyTheLost
2011-08-24, 03:55 AM
Silent Image. And that's without shadowcrafting factored in.

Shadowcrafting is what makes it completely broken, and I'm not sure if you can get the over-100% trick to work this low level, although you can at least duplicate just about any spell in the game.

NNescio
2011-08-24, 03:58 AM
Let me amend my previous statement:

"And that's without shadowcrafting factored in yet."

Still very open-ended, but not broken as it relies heavily on DM adjudication.

Thiyr
2011-08-24, 04:00 AM
Stone shape. Notice that it is a standard action, instantaneous duration spell which has no save and can potentially encase a person in stone such that they are incapable of movement, more or less escape. Even without abusing its...lack of wording, though, it's a wonderful problem-solver when stone is around.

Shrink item gets some mention for its use in transporting large numbers of boulders over your enemies heads.

ShneekeyTheLost
2011-08-24, 04:17 AM
Also, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability becomes *FAR* more powerful if no other caster is chucking around spells higher than 3rd level.

Teleport can flat out break your campaign if it requires your party to go somewhere on a time limit. DimDoor can also trivialize many challenges.

Shadow Conjuration is a 4th level spell.

Enervation = negative levels. Trust me, you can break this spell fairly easily with Arcane Thesis and various metamagic feats. Having access to a Slaymate and Easy Metamagic feats trivializes it.

gomipile
2011-08-24, 04:57 AM
Bestow Curse

Ravens_cry
2011-08-24, 05:04 AM
Prestidigitation hasn't been mentioned yet? How is this possible?
I agree with Feytalist, enchantment spells are really worth a lot more as their traditional counter, Mind Blank, will not be available, leaving only creatures with innate resistances. Making a creature your friend or slave is practically the definition of open-ended.

WinWin
2011-08-24, 05:39 AM
pyrotechnics can be pretty effective. Especially if you set enemies ablaze with alchemists fire first. Very situational though.

Jair Barik
2011-08-24, 05:46 AM
Steel bands from SC is pretty horrific. Pretty much the lowest level SoD/SoS spell in the game except for sleep. Ignores SR (if I remember correctly) and on a failed save the enemy is helpless (and so vulnerable to a coup de grace). Even on a succesful save they are entangled which will ruin the day of many monsters/characters.

Elboxo
2011-08-24, 05:53 AM
How experienced are the players? Are you allowing Spell Compendium?
What casters are they? How many of them are casters?

deuxhero
2011-08-24, 06:48 AM
Prestidigitation hasn't been mentioned yet? How is this possible?


It's open, but impossible to make broken without breaking the rules. This is primarily due to the fact that it lists 1 (plus 1 or so other in a splatbook) use with a mechanical existance, and another cantrip does the use far better.

Tyndmyr
2011-08-24, 09:37 AM
Also, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability becomes *FAR* more powerful if no other caster is chucking around spells higher than 3rd level.

It's hilariously powerful in E6.

ShneekeyTheLost
2011-08-24, 09:59 AM
It's hilariously powerful in E6.

How can you get access to a 4th level spell as a 6th level caster?

Cespenar
2011-08-24, 11:03 AM
How can you get access to a 4th level spell as a 6th level caster?

Well, you see, Improved Sigil (Krau) on an Illumi-

BLAARGH! *wipes mouth*

Sorry. Never mind me. :smalltongue:

ShneekeyTheLost
2011-08-24, 11:35 AM
Well, you see, Improved Sigil (Krau) on an Illumi-

BLAARGH! *wipes mouth*

Sorry. Never mind me. :smalltongue:

Ahh yes, the reason I ban Illumians from any game I run...

wuwuwu
2011-08-24, 11:55 AM
Aren't there also E6 feats that allow you to get 4th level spells?

Yora
2011-08-24, 04:04 PM
Not in "E6 core".

Wouldn't it be more correct to say, that lesser globe starts really good, but also stays very good in a low and mid-level campaign? When you're 7th level, you won't have many encounters in which enemies can throw more than two or three 4th level spells.