Best Martial Study Maneuvers/General Feat Advice

[Kobold-Bard]

I'm making a Wild Shape Ranger/Warshaper/MoMF, focussing on melee.

I have a lot of Feats free atm & Martial Study seems like a good idea.

1. Is it?

2. If yes, what maneuvers/stances would you recommend?

3. What other Feats would you recommend (I normally play mages so I'm a bit clueless here).

Thanks,
K-B

[poignant123]

Martial Study (Shadow Jaunt) if you can, 50 ft teleport is something wildshape won't cover.

Martial Study (Burning Blade), because 1d6+IL Damage on each of your natural attacks is awesome.

Martial Study (Mountain Hammer), overcome DR and has out of combat use with overcoming hardness.

[HunterOfJello]

First of all, what level are you taking the feat at?

If you're only taking the feat once, then you can only get maneuvers that don't have a prerequisite of other maneuvers from a specific school.


Burning Blade
Burning Brand (requires level 6)

Shield Block (requires level 6 and is good if you use a shield)

Action Before Thought (requires level 6)
Mind Over Body (requires level 10)
Moment of Perfect Mind
Rapid Counter (requires level 18)

Disarming Strike (requires level 6)
Wall of Blades (requires level 6)

Clever Positioning (req. lvl 6)
Mighty Throw

Cloak of Deception (req. lvl 6)
Hand of Death (req. lvl 14)
Shadow Jaunt (req. lvl 6)
Shadow Strike (req. lvl 18)

Mountain Hammer (req. lvl 6)
There are several other Stone Dragon maneuvers you may wish to check out. Mountain Hammer is the big one that people favor though since it can overcome DR and hardness no matter how high they are.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Depending on how reliably you think you can get your foes to be flat-footed, perhaps martial stance (assassin's stance) for 2d6 sneak attack? Would also let you get shadow blade on the off chance you want it.

[Feytalist]

As mentioned, Mountain Hammer (and the rest of that line, really) is the big one, as it has no prerequisites (other than IL, of course).

Another one that is hugely beneficial is also White Raven Tactics. I'm not sure what it's prerequisites are though. You might need to pick up more White Raven maneuvres for it.

[poignant123]

For WRT, you need at least another WR maneuver/stance. IMO, just take what you need.

Forgot all about Mighty Throw. With all the High Str/Dex forms you can take, it can really be quite effective.

[Kobold-Bard]

Thanks for the advice guys, will start looking through the ones mentioned (loving for the online maneuver cards).

Two sub questions:

1. Was Shadow Jaunt ever errata'd to be an Su ability rather than Ex?

2. Just to confirm, can non-Swordages use Maneuvers with unarmed strikes/natural attacks?

[Yuki Akuma]

Anyone can use martial maneuvers with any melee attack.

I'm sure the case could be made for the use of maneuvers with spell touch attacks.

[poignant123]

Actually maneuvers are mostly standard actions in themselves that allow a melee attack as part of the standard action.

A spell touch attack is a standard action. So you can't use a maneuver since they are separate standard actions.

[Yuki Akuma]

Actually maneuvers are mostly standard actions in themselves that allow a melee attack as part of the standard action.

A spell touch attack is a standard action. So you can't use a maneuver since they are separate standard actions.

Really now?

Well you can deliver touch spells as an unarmed strike, which is an attack action, so you can still supplement your maneuvers with touch spells if you're feeling like being weird.

>.>

[Feytalist]

Actually maneuvers are mostly standard actions in themselves that allow a melee attack as part of the standard action.

A spell touch attack is a standard action. So you can't use a maneuver since they are separate standard actions.

I suppose you could cast a touch spell, hold the charge, then execute a maneuvre to gain the benefit of the spell. It seems a waste of actions though.

[Eldan]

I always liked Sudden Leap. A bit of free movement is never wrong.

[HunterOfJello]

1. Was Shadow Jaunt ever errata'd to be an Su ability rather than Ex?

2. Just to confirm, can non-Swordages use Maneuvers with unarmed strikes/natural attacks?


1. ToB really doesn't have any errata. The official errata on the WotC website doesn't even have anything to do with the book. So, Shadow Jaunt is a teleportation extraordinary ability by RAW, but it still is a [Teleportation] maneuver and obviously should be a supernatural ability. You can argue it with your DM.

2. You can deliver a maneuver with any kind of attack. I'm a bit too lazy to look up specific text, but the Unarmed Swordsage is a recommended alternative class feature and the Bloodclaw Master is a prestige class that grows natural weapons that they then use with Tiger Claw maneuvers and others. Therefore, the creators obviously intended for the maneuvers to be available for use with both unarmed strikes and natural weapons.

~

I left out a few different maneuvers because I thought that they were too high of a level to be valuable. For instance, you would have to be level 18 to obtain Elder Mountain Hammer, which does only 4d6 more damage than Mountain Hammer which can be obtained at level 6.
I also left out a few maneuvers that only do a bit of extra damage as a standard action. The ones I listed are useful on their own and would be useful to use a single time during a fight. (Remember that if you don't have a level in one of the ToB classes then you can only use a maneuver once per encounter.)


I always liked Sudden Leap. A bit of free movement is never wrong.

Unfortunately, Sudden Leap requires you to already have One Tiger Claw maneuver. Tiger Claw is a somewhat sad discipline to get in to since the only three maneuvers you can take in it that don't require knowledge of another tiger claw maneuver are Claw at the Moon, Rabid Wolf Strike, and Wolf Fang Strike. The Wolf Fang Strike maneuver is a decent strike, but could be replaced by another feat to be used whenever you like instead of once per encounter.

[poignant123]

I suppose you could cast a touch spell, hold the charge, then execute a maneuvre to gain the benefit of the spell. It seems a waste of actions though.

At that point, just get a spell storing weapon.

But what does work is Burning Blade, swift action add fire damage. But if you're a caster, might as well cast Scorching Ray from afar.

As for Sudden Leap, yes, it's awesome. You need another Tiger Claw Maneuver to get that, so unless you really need it, Travel Devotion is a better alternative.

[Draz74]

If you can use Tome of Battle Items (3k gp each) to count towards prerequisites, it lets you fudge a lot of things.

For example, borrow a 3k Tiger Claw Bracers item before you level up; use it to learn e.g. Rabid Wolf Strike; then when you level up, take Martial Study (Sudden Leap), then sell the Bracers back to whomever you bought them from.

Or instead, take Martial Stance (Hunter's Sense) as a feat, then keep the Bracers but switch them to giving you Sudden Leap, using your feat-based Stance as the prerequisite.

You can pull that same trick with a Crown of the White Raven. Use it to learn some lame maneuver like Douse the Flames, then take Martial Stance (Leading the Charge). That gives you an all your allies a damage bonus on all charge attacks equal to half your character level -- nice. Then take off your Crown and put it back on, use your stance as the prerequisite, and learn White Raven Tactics.

[Essence_of_War]

If you can afford two uses of martial study, I like Moment of Perfect Mind, and Emerald Razor + Power Attack is amazing.

It's also tough to go wrong with any WR maneuver + WRT OR any IH maneuver + IHSurge.