Speeding the session along?

[WarKitty]

So, this is some reflections on last night's skype D&D session. I had a sort of mystery find-the-attacker thing going. Admittedly there were some issues with my communication - I realized they weren't picking up clues, but I didn't realize my players were interpreting some of my clues to dig deeper as signs I didn't want them to look there!

But seriously, the session just seemed to slow to a crawl. Players taking a long time to make decisions. Players spending a lot of time in plans that weren't really necessary. On occasion, players spending a lot of time on unrelated roleplaying - I don't normally object but it does get irritating after a while. It was taking like an hour to get a single step further in the plot. Or just literally standing around waiting for someone else to take the initiative.

Does anyone know how to speed this up in the future?

[Temet Nosce]

Does anyone know how to speed this up in the future?

Two things, first don't play sessions or campaigns which rely on player motivation/knowledge of where to go with players who are either uninterested in or incapable of maintaining their own momentum.

Second, have at least one player in the group who's willing to break up distractions or slow parts by blatantly RPing moving onwards, thus giving you an excuse to proceed.

[WarKitty]

Two things, first don't play sessions or campaigns which rely on player motivation/knowledge of where to go with players who are either uninterested in or incapable of maintaining their own momentum.

Second, have at least one player in the group who's willing to break up distractions or slow parts by blatantly RPing moving onwards, thus giving you an excuse to proceed.

Unfortunately due to the setup I don't have a lot of control over the players I get. As for the second bit - unfortunately that was tried, it ended up with the party splitting apart as one character went forward and the other two stayed and argued. Something I'd rather avoid in the future.

Oddly, the problem didn't seem to be a lack of motivation. It seemed to be more along the lines of player indecisiveness or uncertainty - given incomplete knowledge, they seemed to become paralyzed trying to cover all possibilities, or trying to protect from any conceivable threat.

[Temet Nosce]

Unfortunately due to the setup I don't have a lot of control over the players I get. As for the second bit - unfortunately that was tried, it ended up with the party splitting apart as one character went forward and the other two stayed and argued. Something I'd rather avoid in the future.

Ugh, yeah it sounds like this is pretty much purely your players fault, not just their fault in fact, but based on what you're saying they're digging in their heels, and actively unwilling to participate in D&D as a communal activity for all of you. All I can suggest is the other side of the coin, don't run games that rely on them. If they can't handle it, stick to the rails and resign yourself to using plots that will move things along unless or until you get new players.

I do presume you've already had talks with them and explained the problem without it helping? Communicating clearly what's wrong can sometimes solve the entire issue if it's something that hasn't been talked over blatantly.

[Quellian-dyrae]

I'd give them more ways to mechanically gain information. I'm not saying reduce everything to an Int/Wis/Skill check, but when they find a clue, give them a check that allows them to realize it's important. If they beat the DC by a higher amount, give them the deduction you're hoping they'll make about that particular clue. If you don't want them to figure it out just yet, don't give them the info immediately, but make a note of their success and when they find the clues that are supposed to tie it together, reveal the relevance of the previous puzzle piece.

What it does is throws a bone to the "why can't my 18 Int/Wis character figure this out?" crowd by letting high scores or skills get past the "players fumble around trying to figure out what the DM expects us to figure out" stage, so they can solve the puzzle on the actual clues rather than the players' assumptions of what the clues are.

Similar with strategy. You don't want to give them the winning strategy off the bat, but let them propose ideas and make ability or skill checks to anticipate how the enemy might respond. Combo Knowledge checks to get detailed information. Knowledge (Local) + Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) might give them the layout of a certain building. Add Knowledge (Arcana) and maybe they can learn about wards that might be in place. Let them roll Sense Motive to figure out how their suspect might respond to a direct interrogation before they actually ask the questions.

You never want to straight-up solve the puzzle or make the plan for them, but if you give them relevant information whenever they spend time trying to figure something out, they'll be able to make informed decisions (which should keep things moving along), and you'll encourage investing in information-based capabilities and strategic planning. Basically, give them the tools to pull a Holmes-like deduction or a Batman Gambit, but still have them actually come up with the solution or strategy themselves.

[Tyndmyr]

Unfortunately due to the setup I don't have a lot of control over the players I get. As for the second bit - unfortunately that was tried, it ended up with the party splitting apart as one character went forward and the other two stayed and argued. Something I'd rather avoid in the future.

Oddly, the problem didn't seem to be a lack of motivation. It seemed to be more along the lines of player indecisiveness or uncertainty - given incomplete knowledge, they seemed to become paralyzed trying to cover all possibilities, or trying to protect from any conceivable threat.

I've seen this before...the big problem is that D&D doesn't handle investigative situations terribly well. There's a lack of rules covering the situation, and there's no real way for the players to gauge how they're doing. The social rules of 3.5 are light at best, and it's often unclear if you're winning or not.

And, in 3.5, fortunate tends to favor the cautious/prepared. So...people get indecisive.

I tend to soft-pedal any investigative elements in 3.5, making them fairly easy. It mostly bypasses the issue, as players are fairly confident of success in anything they actually need to figure out(though more subtle clues may be included rarely, they are essentially never obviously clues).

[Leon]

Have a Egg timer.
Once a players turn starts they have the egg timer to act or they miss the turn.

[valadil]

Run several plots at once. Use plots that can interrupt each other. When the players take too long, throw an interruption out there. This was really easy in my Song of Ice and Fire game. I wrote out a half dozen raven messages for each session, usually one per player, and those happened to arrive when players were taking too long or someone got bored.

Let them bypass stuff they're good at. If you have a social chameleon, don't make him roll gather information unless it's really hard information to find. You won't let him find the culprit without rolling dice. But you can let him know which races favor which taverns in the new city. Just give it to him without getting mechanics involved. That example I threw out is an extreme understatement btw. Since my PCs hit level 10, I've let the doppelganger murder and replace unnamed NPCs without rolling. It's the entire essence of his character. It's what he was made to do. Why would I slow that down by making him look up his bluff check?

[WarKitty]

Have a Egg timer.
Once a players turn starts they have the egg timer to act or they miss the turn.

What turn?


Run several plots at once. Use plots that can interrupt each other. When the players take too long, throw an interruption out there. This was really easy in my Song of Ice and Fire game. I wrote out a half dozen raven messages for each session, usually one per player, and those happened to arrive when players were taking too long or someone got bored.

Let them bypass stuff they're good at. If you have a social chameleon, don't make him roll gather information unless it's really hard information to find. You won't let him find the culprit without rolling dice. But you can let him know which races favor which taverns in the new city. Just give it to him without getting mechanics involved. That example I threw out is an extreme understatement btw. Since my PCs hit level 10, I've let the doppelganger murder and replace unnamed NPCs without rolling. It's the entire essence of his character. It's what he was made to do. Why would I slow that down by making him look up his bluff check?

I think part of the issue was I had what I thought was a nice easy mystery...and absolutely no one invested in any sort of social skills or had any sort of decent charisma. It wasn't even supposed to be the mystery at the center, just your basic sort of "find out where the attacks are coming from" deal.

This was supposed to be a single-session plot...it's taken up two sessions so far and isn't resolved.

[Leon]

Their turn to act.

[WarKitty]

Their turn to act.

I know what you meant. The point was none of the situations that came up are they acting in turns, everyone's supposed to be acting together. Unless you're suggesting that I make them take turns to talk or decide which lead to follow...they weren't having problems slowing down in combat, they were having problems spending endless time trying to figure out what to do or simply not doing anything relevant - including in some cases provoking completely unnecessary combats.

[Leon]

even if its a out of turn slowness still impose a time limit if you need to. If you have something that will not sit and wait then let them know answers need to be prompt or they will lose out on what ever they are mulling over.

[WarKitty]

even if its a out of turn slowness still impose a time limit if you need to. If you have something that will not sit and wait then let them know answers need to be prompt or they will lose out on what ever they are mulling over.

I'm just not really sure how this would help. I mean, I'm just not sure what I'd make them lose out on or what would happen if they don't act, unless I want them to lose the entire plot. The attempts I have used only serve to make the game drag on even longer, as they miss their chance at catching that clue and have to go around hunting some more information, which takes up even more time...

[LansXero]

Id say relent and let them pass checks they would fail and let them make Int checks for clues / hunches, if you really dont want them to spend too much time figuring out basic things.