who's the best finder?

[big teej]

-note- this OP is subject to be edited when I have access to my books to make sure I don't forget anything


greetings playgrounders, fairly recently I created a Warforged Ranger named "Finder" because his created purpose was to find people and kill them

I am currently making a few similar characters as baddies for my next session, now, I am not looking for advice on builds or anything, but I have just now become curious...

what is the best "find them" class?

current contestants
The Wilderness Ranger
The Urban Ranger
The Bloodhound
The Crimson Scourge

(for the record, the only classes allowed in the competetion are ones I have access to, and these are the only 4 springing to mind)

so...

in your opinion, of these 4 classes, who is the best "finder"?

[Lord Ruby34]

Wizard, Cleric, Sorcerer, and Psion. There are probably a few others that work better than the classes you pointed out but I can't remember them at the moment.

[big teej]

Wizard, Cleric, Sorcerer, and Psion. There are probably a few others that work better than the classes you pointed out but I can't remember them at the moment.

tier 1s and 2s hardly have a place in this discussion, as any 'who's the best question" can be answered with them.

the classes I listed, tracking/finding things/people is what they do

[Big Fau]

Factotum. Because you can use Wands of Sudden Search, or whatever that spell is called, to make it easier on you. And you are a versatile character outside of looking for traps too.


Edit: it would help if you told us what books you have access to for this.

[Lord Ruby34]

Well, you didn't say not to include them. :smallbiggrin:

I usually don't play trackers so I can't really help. Although if I think about it quite a lot of my builds have a couple of levels in ranger. Huh. The bonus feat and skill points are rather nice.

[big teej]

Edit: it would help if you told us what books you have access to for this.

I intend to as soon as I'm back in my dorm, currently at the library doing some reading for psyche.



Well, you didn't say not to include them. :smallbiggrin:


well..... TECHNICALLY, I kinda did

I said best "finder" not "game breaker" :smalltongue:

a wizard is indeed, an excellent finder. but a wizard who is JUST a finder, is a laughingstock amongst his peers.

I'm aiming for classes whose schtick is to find people/things.

like the bloodhound

[Crasical]

The Bloodhound

Justiciar has some 'finder' elements to it, but it's more about finding and bringing 'em back alive rather than seek and destroy.

[Tyndmyr]

Right. A wizard is an excellent finder AND game breaker! Multipurpose.

The answer to your question is Wizard, thanks to Scry, Legend Lore, etc.

Or thanks to locate city, teleport, and your choice of gather information or interrogation. Rinse and repeat as needed.

[Big Fau]

Forgot something.


The Bloodhound
The Crimson Scourge

I assume you mean the PrCs, right? They aren't worth it.


Really, a Ranger is good at it. Not the best (Druid is), but good enough to get the job done.

[Crasical]

There's a spelltouched feat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/spelltouchedFeats.htm#omniscientWhispers) that lets you use Commune once a week. That'd be helpful for tracking, I suppose.

Edit: Good luck phrasing 'Where is Uther the White Bull' as a yes/no question, though. At least you don't have to spend exp.

[Prime32]

well..... TECHNICALLY, I kinda did

I said best "finder" not "game breaker" :smalltongue:

a wizard is indeed, an excellent finder. but a wizard who is JUST a finder, is a laughingstock amongst his peers.Why would every NPC have spells suited to adventuring? I doubt the town scribe prepares fireball very often.

True, a wizard could choose to learn different spells, but a sorcerer's powers are instinctive so he might end up with mostly "finding things" powers.

[Crasical]

True, a wizard could choose to learn different spells, but a sorcerer's powers are instinctive so he might end up with mostly "finding things" powers.

NPC wizards are so intelligent it doesn't make sense for them not to be optimized, as if they're so intelligent they'd have figured out what spells are the most game-breaking. :smallyuk:

[Psyren]

Psion beats Wizard at this actually, because Wizards can't bypass Mind Blank pre-epic. (StP Erudite beats them both of course.)

A Cleric could potentially win too, it depends on how much his 40HD Outsider buddy is willing to help him look.

[Gavinfoxx]

Okay, you DID say 'of these four', but you mentioned classes you have access to... uhm, I suppose you could say, "what is the best class at finding people who doesn't have spellcasting as their primary thing"?

[big teej]

alright, back in my dorm. so here's the source list. and then the list of contestants drawn therefrom.


Monster Manual II
Dungeon Master's Guide
Song and Silence
Sword and Fist
Deities and Demigods
Tome and Blood
Enemies and Allies
Masters of the wild
Defenders of the faith
Races of Stone
Player's Handbook
Psionics Handbook
Magic of Incarnum
Dungeon Master's Guide II
Oriental Adventures
Cityscape
Book of Exalted Deeds
Monster Manual III
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Book of Vile Darkness
Arms and Equipment Guide
Monster Manual
Player's Handbook II
Unearthed Arcana


now, from these sources, I've drawn these classes which are to some degree based on finding people/things

Mortal Hunter
Crimson Scourge
Stalker of Kharash
Witch Hunter
Ranger
Urban Ranger
Bloodhound
Foe Hunter
Watch Detective
Ghostwalker
Spymaster
Vigilante


soo....

who's the best finder?

[Talentless]

alright, back in my dorm. so here's the source list. and then the list of contestants drawn therefrom.


Monster Manual II
Dungeon Master's Guide
Song and Silence
Sword and Fist
Deities and Demigods
Tome and Blood
Enemies and Allies
Masters of the wild
Defenders of the faith
Races of Stone
Player's Handbook
Psionics Handbook
Magic of Incarnum
Dungeon Master's Guide II
Oriental Adventures
Cityscape
Book of Exalted Deeds
Monster Manual III
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Book of Vile Darkness
Arms and Equipment Guide
Monster Manual
Player's Handbook II
Unearthed Arcana


now, from these sources, I've drawn these classes which are to some degree based on finding people/things

Mortal Hunter
Crimson Scourge
Stalker of Kharash
Witch Hunter
Ranger
Urban Ranger
Bloodhound
Foe Hunter
Watch Detective
Ghostwalker
Spymaster
Vigilante


soo....

who's the best finder?

Well, I'm a little iffy on most of those classes, but I think we still need just a tad more information.

Are you looking for best "finder" in general, or for a specific purpose?

Because I'm pretty sure an Urban Ranger SHOULD(maybe doesn't, i don't have all those books) outclass all the other "finders" in a city, but get obliterated in the wilderness.

[Psyren]

Okay, if T1 and T2 are out, I'd say Factotum and Binder win.

Factotum was already mentioned, but Binders can get obscenely high Knowledge/Gather Information checks (including gems like Local, History, Nobility etc. - and they can even reroll them), Divination at will, Bardic Knowledge, Track, Blindsight, Mindsight, True Seeing, a scouting pet, stealth/invisibility, flight, teleportation, Incorporeality/Etherealness... you want to find someone, a Binder can do it. Not as easily as a Seer perhaps, but they'll definitely succeed.

Also, he functions equally well in the city or wilderness.

[big teej]

Well, I'm a little iffy on most of those classes, but I think we still need just a tad more information.

Are you looking for best "finder" in general, or for a specific purpose?

Because I'm pretty sure an Urban Ranger SHOULD(maybe doesn't, i don't have all those books) outclass all the other "finders" in a city, but get obliterated in the wilderness.

Finder in general.

for an example situation.


A dwarf noble approaches you, he explains that an individual must be found, he gives a fairly decent description, and says "he was last spotted in this general area, go find him, and bring him back"

the general area encompasses a small mountian range, 3 towns (one large one) and an extensive forest.


hopefully that clarifies the situation a bit.
-for the record, it's just an example-

oh. one last tidbit. the person you are seeking knows people are looking for him, and has taken steps to disguise himself and blend a bit.

[dextercorvia]

Finder in general.

for an example situation.


A dwarf noble approaches you, he explains that an individual must be found, he gives a fairly decent description, and says "he was last spotted in this general area, go find him, and bring him back"

the general area encompasses a small mountian range, 3 towns (one large one) and an extensive forest.


hopefully that clarifies the situation a bit.
-for the record, it's just an example-

oh. one last tidbit. the person you are seeking knows people are looking for him, and has taken steps to disguise himself and blend a bit.

Honestly you want spellcasting for that. If you want to eliminate classes that do everything -- that's fine, but you want casting. Ardent or Chameleon would make a good choice here. Ardent gets a fairly narrow focus on powers, but if you take advantage of the power swap ACF in the Mind's Eye articles, then you can get him to be a fairly effective scry and port kind of guy. Chameleon relies on lower level spells, but you can find plenty to work with, and you can pair it with the Binder to use some of the other advice.

If you stick with a Ranger style chassis, you will be saddling up your horse at about the same time as a caster is porting to your target's location.

[big teej]

Honestly you want spellcasting for that. If you want to eliminate classes that do everything -- that's fine, but you want casting. Ardent or Chameleon would make a good choice here. Ardent gets a fairly narrow focus on powers, but if you take advantage of the power swap ACF in the Mind's Eye articles, then you can get him to be a fairly effective scry and port kind of guy. Chameleon relies on lower level spells, but you can find plenty to work with, and you can pair it with the Binder to use some of the other advice.

If you stick with a Ranger style chassis, you will be saddling up your horse at about the same time as a caster is porting to your target's location.

well.... as I've stated repeatedly.

the purpose of this is to find the best finder off the list I gave.

which does not include wizards/binders/clerics/etc.

[dextercorvia]

well.... as I've stated repeatedly.

the purpose of this is to find the best finder off the list I gave.

which does not include wizards/binders/clerics/etc.

Why have you left out things like Rogue?

[Psyren]

well.... as I've stated repeatedly.

the purpose of this is to find the best finder off the list I gave.

which does not include wizards/binders/clerics/etc.



Expanded Psionics Handbook


It's Psion. Unless you mean something totally different when you say "best..."

EDIT: Ranger/Seer/Slayer if you want to throw in more mundane tracking.

[Groverfield]

Ok, you're going to want both Tracking and Urban Tracking (whichever one you don't get, take the other with your level 1 feat.) Unfortunately, no class I can find, except Factotem have both of those as class skills...

Looking stuff up, there's this option: Play any class with Gather Info OR Survival as a class skill. Be human, maybe with a (flaw.) 1st and Human feats are Apprentice:Criminal (if you have survival) or Apprentice:Woodsman (If you have gather information), and the opposite tracking feat. 3rd or flaw feat: take the last tracking feat. All skill points go into these.

Personally, I recommend using Rogue, or Scout for trapfinding, add points into search (because you don't always need to track down beings, and because TRAPFINDING,) disable device and open lock, (because traps and doors may impede your searching,) survival and gather info are a must.

Edit: Most of the time, spells are better and quicker, but sometimes they don't work, due to epic nondetection fiats from DMs

[BIGMamaSloth]

Okay, if T1 and T2 are out, I'd say Factotum and Binder win.

Factotum was already mentioned, but Binders can get obscenely high Knowledge/Gather Information checks (including gems like Local, History, Nobility etc. - and they can even reroll them), Divination at will, Bardic Knowledge, Track, Blindsight, Mindsight, True Seeing, a scouting pet, stealth/invisibility, flight, teleportation, Incorporeality/Etherealness... you want to find someone, a Binder can do it. Not as easily as a Seer perhaps, but they'll definitely succeed.

Also, he functions equally well in the city or wilderness.

yea I support binder for finder. Finder Binder. But make sure to find and bind good finding binds. Binder Finder.

[Feytalist]

I love the fact that, even though OP has repeatedly stated no wizard/cleric/binder etc, people are still going all "omg just caster, noob".

Willful disregard of an honest question much?

Now, to make this a constructive post, I must say I like Stalker of Kharash a lot, even though mostly for its flavour. It does advance ranger casting (which is almost unheard of), but it will obviously work best on evil "marks". So, for an anti-evil bounty hunter, it's not a bad choice.

Bloodhound is perhaps the PrC most obvious for what you're trying to make, even if it is a bit bad. If you can manage to go with the 3.0 one, do that instead. Once you have your mark, you get some decent bonuses. It's really probably your best bet out of the list you gave.

Someone also mentioned the Justiciar, but that's more a "subduer" than a "finder".

[deuxhero]

Of course, pretty much everything here is a trap, as they all come down to "does the DM want you to find something?"

[Angry Bob]

If you're creating them as bad guys, it's not like you need to give them more than a token ability to find things. Just have them show up one day(depending on how paranoid your character has been about their disguise), say "you're a hard man to find" and roll initiative.