2d6 Beta! PEACH : )

[lothofkalroth]

For any interested parties, the 2d6 Beta is out on the website (http://2d6game.wordpress.com/)!

If you're not into visiting the website (though more traffic never hurts, and there's an html version of the rules, as well as content for the first setting, Fantasy) you can download the pdf here (http://www.pdfhost.net/index.php?Action=DownloadFile&id=dc5f9d9e1710e31d4234ba6155609c58)!

Any critiques, reviews, playtesting, or other help is much appreciated, and if you like i can include anyone that helps in the credits section of the final release : )

And if there's enough interest, i might just run a play-by-post using the fantasy setting. 3 players. Let me know if anyone's interested (i know this should really go in the recruiting thread for PbP, but i figure it's relevant).

Thanks!

[wiimanclassic]

I'll look it over, maybe see if some people at this other forum want to try it out, see how easy it is to play and what not.

[Howler Dagger]

Im interested.

[lothofkalroth]

I'll look it over, maybe see if some people at this other forum want to try it out, see how easy it is to play and what not.

Thanks! I appreciate you taking the time to check it out!

[lothofkalroth]

Im interested.

Cool beans, did you still want to run the other game, or no? I kind of realized that if anyone was going to run a play by post with 2d6, I should probably do it, just because I have the best grasp of the rules, having written them, and I have the setting in my head. : )

[Howler Dagger]

Cool beans, did you still want to run the other game, or no? I kind of realized that if anyone was going to run a play by post with 2d6, I should probably do it, just because I have the best grasp of the rules, having written them, and I have the setting in my head. : )

no, you probably would be the best for the job.

[Vonwalt]

I'm interested in giving it a try...

[lothofkalroth]

I'm interested in giving it a try...

cool! I'd like to try and get one more person on board, so if you want you can read up on the setting from what's posted on the website. It's under the content tab in the menu bar: Content>Settings>Fantasy

[Vonwalt]

Seems pretty cool.

[Howler Dagger]

Im making my character sheet, what stat do you guys think Rapier fighting woulld be based on?

[Vonwalt]

Im making my character sheet, what stat do you guys think Rapier fighting woulld be based on?

Agility, most def. There's very little strength involved, but a lot of maneuvering and quick movements.

[Groverfield]

Initial impression: Is this supposed to be a reworking off of the D20 system, using 4e base?

Stats initially looked like a certain infamous game that shall remain nameless, until I noticed that there were only two overarching catagories... perhaps add a "Spirit" or other fourth mental catagory if you plan on having spellcasting not directly linked to studiousness?

If you're also not going to have a stat representing someone's personal persuasion powers (Charisma in most systems) then why measure the other mental attributes? Some characters might not be living up to, or down to their character's relative mental attribute.

"Notice" skill being used in proportion to Attention? It's usually the people who are not focusing their attention on the path before them that notice perifrial occurances

The loose mentions of magic somewhat remind me of a BESM supplement that used skill checks in place of casting, then followed by a will and fortitude save, and exhaustion rules.

Examples are a bit wonky...
"Will to Live" would instinctually apply to (almost) every living creature, real, or assumably fantasy.
Culture: American... this is kinda prejudiced, -1 brains to the country that contributed a lot to the industrial age, and started the industrial age? "Rich" as a bonus feat... err... talent? Considering it hasn't been the economic leader for a while, and a common tradition is to kick the kids out at 18 with no resources(money) to "toughen them up" in some parts? -1 survival checks, and yet the mountain zone provides quite a number of survivalists... of course calling "American" a single unified culture is in itself, hopefully in jest.

Skill points are strange... Can people only train up skills they use? Can they straight train their combat and survival skills up to 5, then just go around with superior staying alive skills facing challenges to rack up more advancement points?

I could continue, but I've got to get to preparing lunch.

[lothofkalroth]

Im making my character sheet, what stat do you guys think Rapier fighting woulld be based on?

Yes, definitely Agility.

[lothofkalroth]

Initial impression: Is this supposed to be a reworking off of the D20 system, using 4e base?

Stats initially looked like a certain infamous game that shall remain nameless, until I noticed that there were only two overarching catagories... perhaps add a "Spirit" or other fourth mental catagory if you plan on having spellcasting not directly linked to studiousness?

If you're also not going to have a stat representing someone's personal persuasion powers (Charisma in most systems) then why measure the other mental attributes? Some characters might not be living up to, or down to their character's relative mental attribute.

"Notice" skill being used in proportion to Attention? It's usually the people who are not focusing their attention on the path before them that notice perifrial occurances

The loose mentions of magic somewhat remind me of a BESM supplement that used skill checks in place of casting, then followed by a will and fortitude save, and exhaustion rules.

Examples are a bit wonky...
"Will to Live" would instinctually apply to (almost) every living creature, real, or assumably fantasy.
Culture: American... this is kinda prejudiced, -1 brains to the country that contributed a lot to the industrial age, and started the industrial age? "Rich" as a bonus feat... err... talent? Considering it hasn't been the economic leader for a while, and a common tradition is to kick the kids out at 18 with no resources(money) to "toughen them up" in some parts? -1 survival checks, and yet the mountain zone provides quite a number of survivalists... of course calling "American" a single unified culture is in itself, hopefully in jest.

Skill points are strange... Can people only train up skills they use? Can they straight train their combat and survival skills up to 5, then just go around with superior staying alive skills facing challenges to rack up more advancement points?

I could continue, but I've got to get to preparing lunch.

First off: this system was born out of a distaste for 4e, not to copy it, and I have to say the mechanics are really nothing like DnD.

As far as stats go: I don't know what infamous game you're talking about, so if you could let me know i'd appreciate it. The reason there are only three mental stats is that Toughness isn't used to modify any attacks, making for three physical and three mental stats you can use for combat. Attention, Brains, and Will can all be used for magic after all, depending on what kind of magic you use. Will is effectively spirit.

Which brings me to: Will is Charisma. Will is used for social rolls like Speech and Intimidate (sometimes). Will is meant to represent both a character's force of personality (often called charisma) and their desire to live. I think that perhaps I may allow Brains to modify Speech in later versions, but for now things have been fairly balanced in playtesting.

What other stat could possibly be better to modify Notice than Attention? Attention is both active and passive, so I don't really see the dilemma here...

I've never really used BESM, but a friend who does told me the same thing, though i don't know about the exhaustion part, because I didn't include energy or anything (though I thought about it for a while).

As far as the examples go, the will to live was really just a judgement call. I thought it would be an interesting bit of fluff that humans are, as a general rule, less willing to lay down and die than other races, and that this tenacity is part of what led them to survive as long as they have in a world full of creatures that are obviously their physical superiors (mostly). The -1 to brains was a bit of a joke towards America (I am American for the record) because our educational system is not as up to par as a lot of the rest of the First World (Europe and First World Asia have much more efficient and rigorous educational standards than we do). Also, this was meant to represent the average, not the exceptions, and while America certainly has amazing exceptions, the average person isn't terribly brilliant. The "Rich" Talent (and yes I call them talents not feats, because I feel it's a more appropriate term, the same way I changed DM/GM to Narrator), is absolutely appropriate, because in comparison to the rest of the world, Americans, even many of the poorest Americans, are in the top 1% when it comes to Per Capita Income.

I don't really understand what you mean when you say this, because any skill you use can be trained. There are no skill restrictions or classes, so any character can train any skill any time they have the points to do so. And as far as characters being indestructable with combat/survival skills: that's up to the Narrator. The most powerful warrior in the world can be brought to their knees by a simple moral dilemma or logic puzzle. The trick to good Narrating is to hit players from the side with challenges rather than head on.

I do appreciate the criticism, even though it was a bit more snarky than was entirely necessary, so thanks :smallsmile:

[SlashRunner]

First off: this system was born out of a distaste for 4e, not to copy it, and I have to say the mechanics are really nothing like DnD.

As far as stats go: I don't know what infamous game you're talking about, so if you could let me know i'd appreciate it. The reason there are only three mental stats is that Toughness isn't used to modify any attacks, making for three physical and three mental stats you can use for combat. Attention, Brains, and Will can all be used for magic after all, depending on what kind of magic you use. Will is effectively spirit.

Which brings me to: Will is Charisma. Will is used for social rolls like Speech and Intimidate (sometimes). Will is meant to represent both a character's force of personality (often called charisma) and their desire to live. I think that perhaps I may allow Brains to modify Speech in later versions, but for now things have been fairly balanced in playtesting.

What other stat could possibly be better to modify Notice than Attention? Attention is both active and passive, so I don't really see the dilemma here...

I've never really used BESM, but a friend who does told me the same thing, though i don't know about the exhaustion part, because I didn't include energy or anything (though I thought about it for a while).

As far as the examples go, the will to live was really just a judgement call. I thought it would be an interesting bit of fluff that humans are, as a general rule, less willing to lay down and die than other races, and that this tenacity is part of what led them to survive as long as they have in a world full of creatures that are obviously their physical superiors (mostly). The -1 to brains was a bit of a joke towards America (I am American for the record) because our educational system is not as up to par as a lot of the rest of the First World (Europe and First World Asia have much more efficient and rigorous educational standards than we do). Also, this was meant to represent the average, not the exceptions, and while America certainly has amazing exceptions, the average person isn't terribly brilliant. The "Rich" Talent (and yes I call them talents not feats, because I feel it's a more appropriate term, the same way I changed DM/GM to Narrator), is absolutely appropriate, because in comparison to the rest of the world, Americans, even many of the poorest Americans, are in the top 1% when it comes to Per Capita Income.

I don't really understand what you mean when you say this, because any skill you use can be trained. There are no skill restrictions or classes, so any character can train any skill any time they have the points to do so. And as far as characters being indestructable with combat/survival skills: that's up to the Narrator. The most powerful warrior in the world can be brought to their knees by a simple moral dilemma or logic puzzle. The trick to good Narrating is to hit players from the side with challenges rather than head on.

I do appreciate the criticism, even though it was a bit more snarky than was entirely necessary, so thanks :smallsmile:

Personally, I think that you should remove the cultural modifications, or if you want to keep them in, restrain them to personality traits and acquired characteristics rather than inborn traits like strength and intelligence. Using American for an example, by your system, the smartest Americans are stupider than the smartest Asians. No matter how intelligent they are, they can NEVER be as smart as the smartest Asians. I, who am of above average intelligence (I'd say about a 15-16 in D&D terms), can never be as smart as the similarly above average Asian guy. It just doesn't make sense...

[lothofkalroth]

Personally, I think that you should remove the cultural modifications, or if you want to keep them in, restrain them to personality traits and acquired characteristics rather than inborn traits like strength and intelligence. Using American for an example, by your system, the smartest Americans are stupider than the smartest Asians. No matter how intelligent they are, they can NEVER be as smart as the smartest Asians. I, who am of above average intelligence (I'd say about a 15-16 in D&D terms), can never be as smart as the similarly above average Asian guy. It just doesn't make sense...

Yes, well to be perfectly honest I was thinking of taking cultures out entirely, since it's really as bit racist. I initially created it for games where racism was prevalent (1800s eastern European vampire hunts), but to use it in a modern system is actually pretty offensive the more I look at it. Perhaps race would be best relegated to actual different species.

Thanks for the insight!

[lothofkalroth]

I'll post the opening for the Play by Post over in the recruiting threads, and I'll link to it here when it's done, just so everyone knows.

[lothofkalroth]

Here's the link to the PbP recruitment thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11738565#post11738565

[SlashRunner]

Yes, well to be perfectly honest I was thinking of taking cultures out entirely, since it's really as bit racist. I initially created it for games where racism was prevalent (1800s eastern European vampire hunts), but to use it in a modern system is actually pretty offensive the more I look at it. Perhaps race would be best relegated to actual different species.

Thanks for the insight!

I'd suggest removing actual stat boosts and penalties for cultures and just make it a suggestion. For example, instead of saying "All Americans get +1 Will and -1 Brains", say "Americans are often strong-willed, even for humans, and as such often have high Will scores. However, they tend to neglect education and learning, and as such, often have lower Brains scores than humans from other parts of the world". There. You've just established differentiation between races without making it a straitjacket.

[lothofkalroth]

I'd suggest removing actual stat boosts and penalties for cultures and just make it a suggestion. For example, instead of saying "All Americans get +1 Will and -1 Brains", say "Americans are often strong-willed, even for humans, and as such often have high Will scores. However, they tend to neglect education and learning, and as such, often have lower Brains scores than humans from other parts of the world". There. You've just established differentiation between races without making it a straitjacket.

Yeah, that's a very good idea. That way it'll be less restrictive, which is the whole point after all. Thanks!

[SlashRunner]

In any case, looks good. I might join the PbP. Would be my first time on a PbP, though...

EDIT: Nevermind, it's full/already started.

[lothofkalroth]

In any case, looks good. I might join the PbP. Would be my first time on a PbP, though...

EDIT: Nevermind, it's full/already started.

I'd be more than happy to make an extra space for you. just post your character sheet on the PbP thread in the next week if you could. : )

[Groverfield]

First off: this system was born out of a distaste for 4e, not to copy it, and I have to say the mechanics are really nothing like DnD.

As far as stats go: I don't know what infamous game you're talking about, so if you could let me know i'd appreciate it. The reason there are only three mental stats is that Toughness isn't used to modify any attacks, making for three physical and three mental stats you can use for combat. Attention, Brains, and Will can all be used for magic after all, depending on what kind of magic you use. Will is effectively spirit.

Which brings me to: Will is Charisma. Will is used for social rolls like Speech and Intimidate (sometimes). Will is meant to represent both a character's force of personality (often called charisma) and their desire to live. I think that perhaps I may allow Brains to modify Speech in later versions, but for now things have been fairly balanced in playtesting.

What other stat could possibly be better to modify Notice than Attention? Attention is both active and passive, so I don't really see the dilemma here...

I've never really used BESM, but a friend who does told me the same thing, though i don't know about the exhaustion part, because I didn't include energy or anything (though I thought about it for a while).

As far as the examples go, the will to live was really just a judgement call. I thought it would be an interesting bit of fluff that humans are, as a general rule, less willing to lay down and die than other races, and that this tenacity is part of what led them to survive as long as they have in a world full of creatures that are obviously their physical superiors (mostly). The -1 to brains was a bit of a joke towards America (I am American for the record) because our educational system is not as up to par as a lot of the rest of the First World (Europe and First World Asia have much more efficient and rigorous educational standards than we do). Also, this was meant to represent the average, not the exceptions, and while America certainly has amazing exceptions, the average person isn't terribly brilliant. The "Rich" Talent (and yes I call them talents not feats, because I feel it's a more appropriate term, the same way I changed DM/GM to Narrator), is absolutely appropriate, because in comparison to the rest of the world, Americans, even many of the poorest Americans, are in the top 1% when it comes to Per Capita Income.

I don't really understand what you mean when you say this, because any skill you use can be trained. There are no skill restrictions or classes, so any character can train any skill any time they have the points to do so. And as far as characters being indestructable with combat/survival skills: that's up to the Narrator. The most powerful warrior in the world can be brought to their knees by a simple moral dilemma or logic puzzle. The trick to good Narrating is to hit players from the side with challenges rather than head on.

I do appreciate the criticism, even though it was a bit more snarky than was entirely necessary, so thanks :smallsmile:

Still tastes a bit like D20 with a sampling of the bit of Whitewolf I've played...
It wasn't the "core" BESM magic system, it was in a BESM D20 alternate magic rules supplement.
I also was holding back on the snark, for politeness sake. Any snark you may have perceived was unintentional.
If you're going to make cultural modifiers, then have them be negatives to skills (making them -2 by default) that can be trained back to maximum, thus cultural deficiencies can be overcome, if there are any, and also use fantasy examples to avoid any perceivable pitfalls.
I'm not going to address the per capita versus standard of living or unemployment due to not needing an supplementary discussions.

[lothofkalroth]

Still tastes a bit like D20 with a sampling of the bit of Whitewolf I've played...
It wasn't the "core" BESM magic system, it was in a BESM D20 alternate magic rules supplement.
I also was holding back on the snark, for politeness sake. Any snark you may have perceived was unintentional.
If you're going to make cultural modifiers, then have them be negatives to skills (making them -2 by default) that can be trained back to maximum, thus cultural deficiencies can be overcome, if there are any, and also use fantasy examples to avoid any perceivable pitfalls.
I'm not going to address the per capita versus standard of living or unemployment due to not needing an supplementary discussions.

Thanks, and I apologize for perceiving snark, your post was the last I read in a long day of answering questions, and while that's no excuse, it may offer a bit of explanation.

After hearing from some other people about similar problems, I think I may eliminate Cultures altogether, and just save race for games where it's appropriate, since cultures are actually just a bit racist.

Also pointed out to me in another thread elsewhere is the fact that I didn't mention Skills start at 0, not -1 like stats.

I am curious to know, however, what particular elements of 2d6 remind you of DnD, because I'm not entirely sure.

Thanks for the help, it's appreciated, trust me. : )

[Groverfield]

Thanks, and I apologize for perceiving snark, your post was the last I read in a long day of answering questions, and while that's no excuse, it may offer a bit of explanation.

After hearing from some other people about similar problems, I think I may eliminate Cultures altogether, and just save race for games where it's appropriate, since cultures are actually just a bit racist.

Also pointed out to me in another thread elsewhere is the fact that I didn't mention Skills start at 0, not -1 like stats.

I am curious to know, however, what particular elements of 2d6 remind you of DnD, because I'm not entirely sure.

Thanks for the help, it's appreciated, trust me. : )

Mostly it's the straight DC and skill checks system of Skill Ranks + Modifier + Dice Roll versus a set number for the challenge rating, not that there's anything wrong with that, and the use of 2d6 instead of a D20 creates a bit of a bell curve that was missing in D20, especially if the DM is using N1F rules in skills. The sampling of Whitewolf, if you're interested, is the skill pool and advancement system.

[lothofkalroth]

Mostly it's the straight DC and skill checks system of Skill Ranks + Modifier + Dice Roll versus a set number for the challenge rating, not that there's anything wrong with that, and the use of 2d6 instead of a D20 creates a bit of a bell curve that was missing in D20, especially if the DM is using N1F rules in skills. The sampling of Whitewolf, if you're interested, is the skill pool and advancement system.

As far as the skill checks: I suppose that is true. I think it's the simplest kind of mechanic for skill checks, and one that would be easily grasped by a ten-year-old who can do basic addition, which is the level of simplicity I'd like to get out of this game. Dice pools or roll-unders are sort of convoluted.

I've never played white wolf, so I can't attest to that, but I'll take your word for it. Honestly, with all the feedback and all of the critiques I've been getting, I think I'm going to majorly rework how the mechanics fit together for the next edition.

[Howler Dagger]

Dice pools or roll-unders are sort of convoluted.
i mastered both when i was 10. I think it would help people if you had mroe skills and talents listed.

[lothofkalroth]

i mastered both when i was 10. I think it would help people if you had mroe skills and talents listed.

You may have mastered them, but how long did it take you, and did you have any help? I'm not trying to be argumentative, and I may be wrong, but any mechanic that involves multiplication/division is automatically more complicated than one that just involves addition and subtraction. I don't doubt that you may have been a particularly intelligent ten year old, but there are a lot of people out there who wouldn't be able to catch on that quickly.

I'm trying to make 2d6 as appealing as possible to new gamers. I'd like to try and act as an envoy of sorts between the gaming world and the rest of the world by offering a rules and math lite system that non-nerds can understand.

I'm saying all of this as a total nerd myself, I'm studying to get a Biology degree at the moment with a focus on Plant Pathology, so please don't take offense.

[Tesla_pasta]

I really like the simplicity of the system, because is allows for the most customization, and for the players to truly create their own characters abilities. I really like 4e dnd as well, but the whole ability system makes it hard to make a completely personal character, so they freedom from set classes really looks fun. It would be great if there was a webpage where people could post lists of talents, skills, and build ideas that fall into various settings (i.e. DnD like fantasy, steampunk adventure, space horror story)