[3.5] Help me make a SoulKnife

[Bladesophar]

So after hours of searching and trying to plan on my own, I have failed miserably at creating a decent single-class Soulknife. So now, I come to you, munchkins and experienced D&D players to help me. Books that are allowed are PHB, PHB II, Complete Series, and EP. Stat points are either the elite array or a 24 point buy. I'll also be playing a small creature, and my race is naturally psionic (if it matters).

I would really like my Soulknife to focus around using Psionic Focus with deep impact/ fell shot. So Giants, I humbly stand before you asking for a 1-20 Soulknife build that uses psionic focus. Help me out here, friends.

[Bladesophar]

Playgrounders, don't let me down here. Every other thread I've looked at on here or found through google has let me down in multiple ways. For clarification, I don't want to go anything with any 3rd party ideas or fixes, homebrew stuff. Just a straight up 1-20 Soulknife with what I asked for. I'm bumping this because after an hour of watching other threads get responded to and this only getting 4 views, I'm losing hope that there even exists a decent 1-20 Souknife build anywhere.

[Greenish]

I'm losing hope that there even exists a decent 1-20 Souknife build anywhere.That's a good start. :smalltongue:


Well, as a straight soulknife, your best offense would probably be charging and two-handing your weapon, but if you do that, it soon becomes evident that a warrior (the NPC class) would do a better job.

Deep Impact/Psionic Shot have the disadvantage of limiting you to single attack per turn (if you want to reload focus), which is inconvenient at higher levels.

[wuwuwu]

Well, it isn't really focus-based, but I like to think it's a clever/solid Soulknife build.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11690600&postcount=21

(Shameless advertisement)

[Person_Man]

Do you allow homebrew fixes?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So after hours of searching and trying to plan on my own, I have failed miserably at creating a decent single-class Soulknife. So now, I come to you, munchkins and experienced D&D players to help me. Books that are allowed are PHB, PHB II, Complete Series, and EP. Stat points are either the elite array or a 24 point buy. I'll also be playing a small creature, and my race is naturally psionic (if it matters).

I would really like my Soulknife to focus around using Psionic Focus with deep impact/ fell shot. So Giants, I humbly stand before you asking for a 1-20 Soulknife build that uses psionic focus. Help me out here, friends.

Here's your problem:

Soulknife sucks. When two-thirds of your class features can be emulated by a single spell (Greater Magic Weapon, and being able to use your soulknife as though it were an actual weapon with GMW applied to it), you know you've got a problem.

The solution? Don't play a Soulknife. Or, if you must, only dip for the soulknife and go into something mechanically viable.

Do keep in mind that I am not offering this advice as a 'cop out', or off the top of my head on a whim. I'm the guy who made CW Samurai have at least a useful trick. I'm the guy who came up with the UPS man who can deliver unresistable negative levels until you die, no save, no SR, as a 1st level character.

So when I say that this class is irredeemable, I want you to understand that, compared to CW Samurai, Healer, and Truenamer... Soulknife comes out on bottom.

[Midnight_v]

Originally Posted by Bladesophar
I'm losing hope that there even exists a decent 1-20 Souknife build anywhere. *ahem* +1


I'll also be playing a small creature, and my race is naturally psionic (if it matters).
Now serously... you don't have enough sources, to make this concept really decent. You're going to be doing a lot of "Magic item, Optimization" overall and thats youre life.

Heres something though.
Take psycrystal affinity (check w/dm to see if you qualify)
Take psionic meditation
Take Psionic Containment.

This allows you to use psionic weapon 2x on 1 attack. or Allows you to use psionic weapon + deep impact on a single turn.
Psiwarriors do it better but me its SOMTIHNG.
Aside from that yeah take a 2 hander and charge.
Use the heck out of your wealth by level.

[Jude_H]

Here's what I've got:
Lennie Lazersord
Orc Soulknife 20
Str>Con>Dex>Int>Cha>Wis

FEATS:
1: Expeditious Dodge
S: Wild Talent
S: Weapon Focus
3: Mobility
6: Leadership
S: Speed of Thought
S: Greater Weapon Focus
9: Evasive Reflexes
12: Improved Toughness
15: Improved Initiative
18: Combat Reflexes

George Getin'izbrane
Synad Transmuter 13/Abjurant Champion 5
Int>Wis>Con>Cha>Dex>Str

FEATS:
1: Combat Casting
W: Scribe Scroll
3: Bastard Sword Proficiency
W: Extend Spell
6: Psionic Meditation
9: Psionic Weapon
W: Quicken Spell
12: Minor Shapeshift
15: Arcane Strike
W: Persist Spell
18: Deep Impact

At low levels, Lennie is going to put as many skill ranks as he can into craft(poison). Poisons are going to be his best friends, and his best way of producing status effects, extra damage and of making combat interesting. He's always going to keep a few poisoned darts at hand, as well as a little something special to rub on his spear head.

By the way, Lennie is going to use a spear until level 6, for its reach, two-handedness and improved base damage. Once he can shape a bastard sword, it might be worth switching to the mind blade, just for the extra wealth.

At level 6, just about the time that Lennie realizes that a high strength and a bit of poison isn't enough to carry him through combats, Lennie meets George. George is going to carry the bundle of buffs, debuffs and BC that Lennie needs in order to kill things. Coincidentally convenient! George also carries around a pet rock that can keep Lennie company when he's scouting around - both to double-up on skill rolls, and to handle poisons that would be dangerous for Lennie to administer himself.

George can probably carry Lennie through to level 11. They will not have an easy time of it, but they just might realize that there's more to their friendship than they initially thought. Or Lennie's just going to **** something up bad. Either way, at level 11, the game's going to get tough, and Lennie might not have a space in the world on his own, so George is going to hit him with Magic Jar.

Suddenly, George is going to be casting spells from a bulky platform of meaningful HP, inflated physical stats and a swath of robust "automatic abilities" (I'm assuming feats count, but I can't recall the term ever being defined). With Lennie's mindblade, strength and his own buffs, George should be able to overcome his low BA in melee, should he need to. Otherwise, he should be able to at least supplement the primary party with Rays, buffs and BC in the beginnings of fights, and efficiently aid in the cleanup.

Meanwhile, Lennie's just going to be chilling in the gemstone of his choice. It may sound harsh, but it's really for the best.

[Bladesophar]

I'm aware of how my focus will limit my attacks. I'm playing more as a party utility. Throwing my weapon as I close the distance, and distracting enemies with Bladewind and whatnot. I'm just a little shaky on how to go about it and would like some help.

[deuxhero]

Using only 3.5 sources, prcing into Soulbow (Cpsi, but free as an excerpt) is the only truely viable way to not make the SK not COMPLETELY suck (and it isn't very good even when you do). For 1-20 builds, you are boned.

[Bladesophar]

Whoa double post. And no one can make a competent one attack/ round Soulknife that uses psionic focus?

[hustlertwo]

You've got the right idea focusing on the ranged aspect, I'd say. A shame the increments are so small, but a properly tuned Soulknife can become a decent ranged character who can easily fall back on melee when needed (just unfortunate that he'll have to rely on increased damage per hit, since multiple attacks will be so difficult). I'd suggest that when you get to your first enhancement, you go with Ectoplasmic, so you have at least that little bit of extra damage that will help with all the enemies who are immune to the mind-affecting bonus damage dice from Psychic Burst.

[Grendus]

The only way I've found to make soulknife decent is to PrC into War Mind, and even then it's the PrC that's good. You basically turn into a Psychic Warrior with a little extra WBL but fewer powers known. But still, better than soulknife.

[Gavinfoxx]

Maybe we are approaching this from the wrong direction.

Why, specifically, do you want to play a soulknife? Did you make a bet with a DM, "I can make something useful out of a class that is down there with the Commoner!"? Or do you simply like the flavor of mind blades? WHAT is your aim in absolutely REQUIRING Soulknife 1-20?

[Bladesophar]

The reason I want to do a Soulknife from 1-20 is because it's the whole flavor of the Soulknife that attracts me, and also being a psionic type character without having to worry about powers. I just want to do a melee/ ranged Soulknife focusing on a per-hit basis, not a lot of hits. So that's why. No bet with the DM or anything, I'm just sick of powergaming other classes, and it seems like with the Soulknife I can make him the best I possibly can with you alls help, and he still won't outshine the party.

[Hirax]

I hate to say it, but charging. Since you're using a crappy class from 1-20 I'm going to hope that flaws are allowed. For race I'd probably take a winged dragonborn water orc. To solve the terrain problems of charging be sure to put as many ranks as possible into jump. As a winged dragonborn you'll also get a racial +10 to jumps.

Feat selection:
Flaw: Power attack
Flaw: Battle jump
1: Improved trip
3: Knock-down
6: Shock trooper
9: Leap attack

[Greenish]

I hate to say it, but charging. Since you're using a crappy class from 1-20 I'm going to hope that flaws are allowed. For race I'd probably take a winged dragonborn water orc. To solve the terrain problems of charging be sure to put as many ranks as possible into jump. As a winged dragonborn you'll also get a racial +10 to jumps.

Feat selection:
Flaw: Power attack
Flaw: Battle jump
1: Improved trip
3: Knock-down
6: Shock trooper
9: Leap attackImp. Trip requires Combat Expertise.

[Jude_H]

Dragonborn, Water Orc, Battle Jump and Knockdown are out and Shock Trooper needs a few levels delay, so there should be space.

Unfortunately, that also removes most of the kick.

[Gavinfoxx]

The reason I want to do a Soulknife from 1-20 is because it's the whole flavor of the Soulknife that attracts me, and also being a psionic type character without having to worry about powers. I just want to do a melee/ ranged Soulknife focusing on a per-hit basis, not a lot of hits. So that's why. No bet with the DM or anything, I'm just sick of powergaming other classes, and it seems like with the Soulknife I can make him the best I possibly can with you alls help, and he still won't outshine the party.

Hmmm. Is there any reason that the Soulbound Weapon ACF for Psychic Warrior would be inappropriate?

[Jude_H]

Can you slap on a template? Phrenic should give you some distinct actions and powers.

If your game's played at a low enough optimization level, there are some feats in Complete Psionic that let Soulknives do their soulknife thing a bit better.

Beyond that, there are a couple thrown weapon feats in Complete Adventurer that could allow you to focus on strength over dexterity, and to power attack with your fell shots.

Soulknife doesn't have a lot of moving parts. If you know you want to put all your levels there and know you want a particular feat chain, there's not a lot of room left to add abilities to make the class work.

[Psyren]

Have you looked at the Pathfinder Soulknife (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife)? It's better in nearly every way without changing the flavor or adding any bookkeeping (e.g. powers.)

It's easy to port back into 3.5 too - just use the 3.5 Soulknife's skill list and you're still better off.

[hustlertwo]

Can you slap on a template? Phrenic should give you some distinct actions and powers.

If your game's played at a low enough optimization level, there are some feats in Complete Psionic that let Soulknives do their soulknife thing a bit better.

Beyond that, there are a couple thrown weapon feats in Complete Adventurer that could allow you to focus on strength over dexterity, and to power attack with your fell shots.

Soulknife doesn't have a lot of moving parts. If you know you want to put all your levels there and know you want a particular feat chain, there's not a lot of room left to add abilities to make the class work.

That's true, that feat that allows you to apply Strength to thrown weapon attack mods (Brutal Throw?) would be a boon.

I've actually been tempted by this class recently as well. Not sure if I would go pure, or throw in a couple levels of Monk too.

[Frosty]

So when I say that this class is irredeemable, I want you to understand that, compared to CW Samurai, Healer, and Truenamer... Soulknife comes out on bottom.

Wait...there are PC classes MORE horrible than CW Samurai? :smallconfused:

[Midnight_v]

Wait...there are PC classes MORE horrible than CW Samurai? :smallconfused:

Yeah the soulknife is actually one of them. The CW samurai can get his "Mr.Scary" on, he can also fall, and become a Ronin 10/exsamurai 1 with the abilities of both classes.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Whoa double post. And no one can make a competent one attack/ round Soulknife that uses psionic focus?

One attack/round inherently sucks, because Soulknife doesn't have access to damage multipliers that will make that one attack worth bothering with, even at low levels.

With a dip in... something else to get Pounce (either PsiWar or Lion Totem Barbarian), TWFing might not be the worst thing, assuming you can get a Bard to IC/DFI you. Or if you find some method of damage multiplication (Valorous enhancement for your mind blades, for example).

Psychic Strike isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Why? Simple:


provided they are living, nonmindless creatures not immune to mind-affecting effects. As you level, you will rapidly find that none of your opponents meet these criteria.

And even if you did, your problem is that it takes a STANDARD ACTION to ready a psychic strike. Even a Rogue can beat that. And at least a rogue has methods of bypassing immunities to his sneak attack (Swift Hunter, Wands of Gravestrike/Golemstrike/Vinestrike...), the soulknife has nothing.

Look, I'm right there with ya. I love the flavor. Every time I see the class, the image of Zeratul dueling with Kerrigan from SC2 pops into my head. But mechanically... it just doesn't measure up.


Wait...there are PC classes MORE horrible than CW Samurai? :smallconfused:
Take a look in my sig. Mass Staredown + Imperious Command + Frightful armor enchantment (from DotUD) = lockdown everything in a 30' radius that isn't mindless or immune to fear.

[Psyren]

Psychic Strike isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Why? Simple:

. As you level, you will rapidly find that none of your opponents meet these criteria.

The PF Soulknife's Psychic Strike even works on baddies that are immune or mind blanked so long as they have an Int score. Only mindless enemies are safe. It also increases the enhancements you have access to (e.g. giving you Holy baseline instead of requiring you to go Illumine Soul or take Kalashtar subs for it.)


And even if you did, your problem is that it takes a STANDARD ACTION to ready a psychic strike. Even a Rogue can beat that.

It's a move action actually. But then you need another full-round action to charge up your psionic feats, unless you pay a feat tax. Without both of those, your damage will be subpar, but a PF Soulknife has more options as to how his actions are spent.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The PF Soulknife's Psychic Strike even works on baddies that are immune or mind blanked so long as they have an Int score. Only mindless enemies are safe. It also increases the enhancements you have access to (e.g. giving you Holy baseline instead of requiring you to go Illumine Soul or take Kalashtar subs for it.) sorry, but it states 'mind-affecting' not 'mindless'. So Mind Blank makes you immune to it.

EDIT: Sorry, you were talking PF not bog-standard SRD soulknife... my bad.


It's a move action actually. But then you need another full-round action to charge up your psionic feats, unless you pay a feat tax. Without both of those, your damage will be subpar, but a PF Soulknife has more options as to how his actions are spent.

Yea, but a move action to charge up an ability which is inferior to a Rogue's sneak attack is still made of failure.

[Psyren]

sorry, but it states 'mind-affecting' not 'mindless'. So Mind Blank makes you immune to it.

You misread me - I was suggesting that the OP ask to use the Pathfinder Soulknife (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife) instead. Note the differences with their psychic strike:


As a move action, a soulknife of 3rd level or higher can imbue her mind blade with destructive psychic energy. This effect deals an extra 1d8 points of damage on any attack she wishes to activate it on (as long as the attack is made with her mind blade). A soulknife may hold the charge as long as she likes without discharging. It does not go off on any attack unless she chooses to use it, and the charge is not wasted if an attack misses. Mindless creatures are immune to this damage, although non-mindless creatures immune to mind-affecting effects are affected by this damage as normal. (Unlike the rogue's sneak attack, the psychic strike is not precision damage and can affect creatures otherwise immune to extra damage from critical hits or more than 30 feet away.) A mind blade deals this extra damage only once when this ability is called upon, but a soulknife can imbue her mind blade with psychic energy again by taking another move action. Additionally, she may recharge it as a swift action by expending her psionic focus.

Improvements in blue.


Yea, but a move action to charge up an ability which is inferior to a Rogue's sneak attack is still made of failure.

I already know the Soulknife is bad, you don't need to convince me. The PF Soulknife has an alternate charging method though, and if you grab Mind Cleave (either the feat or bladeskill) you can keep your blade charged without spending actions.

It's no ToB by any means, but T4 is perfectly playable in most games.

[Kaje]

Isn't there a neat thing you can do with chucking unarmed strikes around, or do you need a monk level for that?

[Psyren]

Isn't there a neat thing you can do with chucking unarmed strikes around, or do you need a monk level for that?

If you want Monk unarmed progression, you need a Dragon feat (Shape Mind Blade.) From there you have a few options, two of which need Eberron and one of which needs Pathfinder:

1) Tashalatora, which allows levels in a psionic class to progress your unarmed strike progression - this means that soulknife levels will stack with your monk levels to boost your unarmed strike, and you can then turn your mind blade into an unarmed strike.

2) Atavist, a Kalashtar-only PrC from Races of Eberron, which progresses your mind blade and unarmed strike at the same time. Again, with the Dragon feat this effectively makes your blade and fists the same thing.

3) Pathfinder Psychic Fist, whose "+1 manifesting class" progresses your mind blade, and the rest of the class progresses your fist. This again allows you to double-dip.

If Dragon isn't allowed and you just want the flurry, Eberron has a feat that turns your mind blade into a Monk's Spade instead.

[Drelua]

I'm not sure if this is too high of a feat tax, but I've been wanting to know what someone with some real system knowledge (aka, not me) thinks of these mind blade feats (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/mind-blade-feats). Basically, you can take a bunch of different feats to give you a mind blade and some special abilities, and every feat you take increases the enhancement bonus by 1, to a max a half your character level, rounded down. They're made by Dreamscarred Press, who I've heard good things about.

[Jude_H]

I'm not sure if this is too high of a feat tax, but I've been wanting to know what someone with some real system knowledge (aka, not me) thinks of these mind blade feats (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/mind-blade-feats). Basically, you can take a bunch of different feats to give you a mind blade and some special abilities, and every feat you take increases the enhancement bonus by 1, to a max a half your character level, rounded down. They're made by Dreamscarred Press, who I've heard good things about.
They're not fantastic, but they provide enough benefits (a nerfed shock trooper, a wisdom ability sub for attacks and damage, DR workarounds) that classes with meaningful features (psychic warriors, battle sorcs, duskblades, warblades) can take them without losing much. The bit of extra WBL might not outweigh the opportunity cost of the feat slots, but they aren't terrible.

Pretty much all of the Resonant Blade feats (the Mind Strike equivalent) feats are rubbish, even with the Mind Affecting limitations removed. The only times they might be useful is with classes that focus on a single attack per round, like Duskblades, Crusaders or Lurks.

They basically require a class-based damage bonus at low levels, though. Without skirmish, sneak attack or maneuvers, using a short sword is a hefty limitation on low-level melee. My biggest complaint is the level restriction on Shape Mind Blade: it's positioned to be put off until the level 6 feat slot (PsyWars excluded), which is typically one of the most important - it's where a melee character can pick up their first tactical feat and get their main combat shticks running.

[Slii Arhem]

The reason I want to do a Soulknife from 1-20 is because it's the whole flavor of the Soulknife that attracts me, and also being a psionic type character without having to worry about powers. I just want to do a melee/ ranged Soulknife focusing on a per-hit basis, not a lot of hits. So that's why. No bet with the DM or anything, I'm just sick of powergaming other classes, and it seems like with the Soulknife I can make him the best I possibly can with you alls help, and he still won't outshine the party.

There's a neat mind blade feat from dsp d20 (which someone else already linked to) called exotic mind-blade, which could let you make a spiked chain out of your dinky toy. On top of that if you aren't totally against prcs so long as they're psionic and non-casting, there's always the much begrudged pyrokineticist. Combining bladewind with your new 10ft range and ability to light your weapon aflame, you could do fairly consistent damage against large groups. In my opinion a soulknife is a fairly decent whirlwind attacker with the right feats, and in one build I've seen (that leaned heavily on dsp) you could end up hurling a flaming bastard sword for decent, if not amazing, damage every turn.

[MammonAzrael]

The reason I want to do a Soulknife from 1-20 is because it's the whole flavor of the Soulknife that attracts me, and also being a psionic type character without having to worry about powers. I just want to do a melee/ ranged Soulknife focusing on a per-hit basis, not a lot of hits. So that's why. No bet with the DM or anything, I'm just sick of powergaming other classes, and it seems like with the Soulknife I can make him the best I possibly can with you alls help, and he still won't outshine the party.

This seems like a perfect opportunity to pimp my Ascetic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199227), assuming you and your DM are open to homebrew. :smallbiggrin:

[Psyren]

I'm not sure if this is too high of a feat tax, but I've been wanting to know what someone with some real system knowledge (aka, not me) thinks of these mind blade feats (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/mind-blade-feats). Basically, you can take a bunch of different feats to give you a mind blade and some special abilities, and every feat you take increases the enhancement bonus by 1, to a max a half your character level, rounded down. They're made by Dreamscarred Press, who I've heard good things about.

In 3.5 they don't do enough to fix the soulknife's underlying problems, especially since they compete with other feats you could be taking.

In Pathfinder, many of them were made baseline or otherwise irrelevant. The ones that weren't are worth a look

Here's a rundown if you're interested. I may end up porting these into my SK handbook.


Foreword: Mantra feats (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/mantra-feats)
Some of these are Mantra feats, which have special rules. Mantra feats are activated when you gain psionic focus, and last for a set time (typically 1 minute i.e. 10 rounds) or until you expend/lose focus, whichever is shorter. The bad news is that you lose their benefit even if you expend your psicrystal's focus instead of your own. You can also typically only benefit from one mantra at a time. Lastly, all Mantra feats are also psionic feats, so keep that in mind for things that care (like NPF, or Psionic Body.) I'll note which ones are Mantra feats below.

Onward:-

Aligned Blade
3.5: Not worth a precious feat, there are several easier ways you can get the alignment properties if you want them (including spells, consumables, PrCs and ACFs.)
PF: The alignment properties are all baseline for the PF Soulknife, making this feat useless.

Blade of Fury:
3.P: Vorpal is subpar in both systems, but at least the Soulknife can put it on for a fight where it might be useful and take it off when it's not, all for free. Sure you have to do it a day in advance, but that'still better than needing a totally different +6 or higher weapon when you run into those oozes or constructs.
(NOTE: You MUST use the DSP/PF Soulknife to use this! the WotC Soulknife's highest property is +4, and Vorpal is +5. If you're branching out to 3rd party, you may as well just use the PF Soulknife and call it a day.)
I'm not keen on the rage part - Soulknife is ill-suited to multiclasing and there isn't a lot of synergy between it and barb - but if you have a Barbarian dip for whatever reason (fast movement?) you can give your rage a try with this.

Blade of Silence
3.5: The SA part is mediocre at best. The CDG property is nice but, like Vorpal, you can't actually use it with the WotC SK because it's a +5 enhancement.
PF: CDG is baseline, so there's even less reason to use it here.

Champion's Blade (Mantra)
3.P: This one isn't bad - you keep your psychic strike charged after each hit, but it loses one die every time it would have been discharged. This lets you do neat things like use psychic strike on iteratives. PF benefits more because you keep your psychic strike even if you miss, or hit an invalid target, preventing the charge from decreasing until you want it to. It also has interesting synergy with things like the Dual Imbue bladeskill. Give this one a look.

Blade of the Slayer
You need some kind of smite ability to make this work, and it's pretty weak even if you do. (+1 damage per feat isn't great.) The threat range increase is always nice though, but again only applies when smiting.

Bladestorm/Bladewind
These are for martial classes that use feats to make their own mindblade, not for you. Worse, by the time you meet the prereqs (in both systems) you should already have these for free without burning any feats. Skip.

Cognizance Mind Blade
Ugh! store 1PP per mind blade feat in your mind blade. Per feat! And it doesn't even count any other psionic feats! Skip.

Deceptive Mind Blade
Now we're talking. Gives you Bluff, and you can feint at the same time that you create your mind blade. This means you can feint as a free action once you have Free/Quick Draw. On top of that, two more decent feats let you charge your psychic strike while you draw your blade, saving you a move or swift action at the start of combat (though Resonant Blade is a bit of a turkey.) Recommended.

Dedication of the Hunter
Ranger is a slightly better multiclass for Soulknife than most, but the benefits here aren't really worthy of a feat. On top of that, it's a Mantra, so turning this one on rules out your other ones.

Defender's Blade
The defending property isn't the best one in the world, but being able to double it's effectiveness isn't a terrible deal, especially if you're dual-wielding and get it on both blades. Unfortunately, it's focus-dependent. Expending focus for the dodge bonus is nice at low levels but doesn't scale at all. Personally, I'd pass on this but it could be decent for more of a front-line 'knife.

Dual Wielder
3.5: Mandatory if you're dual-wielding, get this if you can. Pity it's so late.
PF: It's baseline for you, as a bladeskill! And you can get it much earlier (2nd level instead of 9th!) Skip.

Dueling Blade
3.5: Not great, but if you like Combat Expertise this synergizes okay with it I guess.
PF: This is also a bladeskill, though is a bit more limited there, so you can consider this feat if you want to increase your tanking options.

Energy Blade
3.5: One feat per energy type? Not worth it at all.
PF: You get all of these baseline, so skip.

Enlightened Warrior
Wis to attack and damage with your mind blade! Fantastic for Monk/SK builds, and best of all makes you less MAD (you can dump Str with this, and use your high Wis to grab things like Psionic Meditation). If the requirements weren't so steep I'd give it a purple rating.

Entwining Blade
3.5: Terrible for the WotC Soulknife, because your blades are likely to be too small to get much of a bonus on the trip check.
PF: You can get this as a bladeskill - skip.

Executioner's Blade
3.P: Situational, but more crits are always welcome, especially if you went with the Vorpal enhancement. I guess it could be worth a feat...

Extended Throw
3.P: Boosts the range increment on your mind blade to 100 feet, over 3x as much. Yikes! If you want a throwing build (and don't want Soulbow/Soulbolt for whatever reason) take this.

Fill the Resonant Blade
3.P: Gives you another charge option for the Psychic Strike wannabe (:smalltongue:) Resonant Blade. Requires way too many feats to be worthwhile though, even in PF.

Focused Shield
3.P: Sword and board makes a comeback? This is the "Dual Wielder" feat for Shield of Thought; If you go with the Mind Shield ability at all you will want this. For PF, you may want to hold out until Psionics Expanded releases a bladeskill for this.

Ghost Hunter
3.5: Much better - three properties for a feat, and all can be great if you're in that kind of campaign.
PF: You get one of these baseline so it's not quite as useful, but you also have the option of switching your damage type on the fly which is great when dealing with undead.
Obviously, if there aren't many undead in your campaign (when aren't there though?) you can skip this.

Hunter's Blade
3.P:Pretty much requires you to be a ranger/SK, and the "warning rattle" has way too small a range to be truly useful. Bane is nice but not worth a feat on its own.

Improved Material Harmonics
3.P: See Material Harmonics below. This one doesn't add enough to make it worthwhile for a feat, but Material Harmonics is excellent.

Improved Shape Mind Blade
3.P: Reshape as a swift instead of a full. Useful, but the prereqs are terrible since this is designed for non-soulknives. Less necessary for PF since your mindblade doesn't need reshaping every time you summon it.




Material Harmonics Lets you emulate any special material in your mind blade that you have come into contact with. Great for fighting material-based DR creatures.

I'll edit the rest in later, just don't want to lose what I have now.

[Drelua]

In 3.5 they don't do enough to fix the soulknife's underlying problems, especially since they compete with other feats you could be taking.

In Pathfinder, many of them were made baseline or otherwise irrelevant. The ones that weren't are worth a look

Here's a rundown if you're interested. I may end up porting these into my SK handbook.


Foreword: Mantra feats (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/mantra-feats)
Some of these are Mantra feats, which have special rules. Mantra feats are activated when you gain psionic focus, and last for a set time (typically 1 minute i.e. 10 rounds) or until you expend/lose focus, whichever is shorter. The bad news is that you lose their benefit even if you expend your psicrystal's focus instead of your own. You can also typically only benefit from one mantra at a time. Lastly, all Mantra feats are also psionic feats, so keep that in mind for things that care (like NPF, or Psionic Body.) I'll note which ones are Mantra feats below.

Onward:-

Aligned Blade
3.5: Not worth a precious feat, there are several easier ways you can get the alignment properties if you want them (including spells, consumables, PrCs and ACFs.)
PF: The alignment properties are all baseline for the PF Soulknife, making this feat useless.

Blade of Fury:
3.P: Vorpal is subpar in both systems, but at least the Soulknife can put it on for a fight where it might be useful and take it off when it's not, all for free. Sure you have to do it a day in advance, but that'still better than needing a totally different +6 or higher weapon when you run into those oozes or constructs.
(NOTE: You MUST use the DSP/PF Soulknife to use this! the WotC Soulknife's highest property is +4, and Vorpal is +5. If you're branching out to 3rd party, you may as well just use the PF Soulknife and call it a day.)
I'm not keen on the rage part - Soulknife is ill-suited to multiclasing and there isn't a lot of synergy between it and barb - but if you have a Barbarian dip for whatever reason (fast movement?) you can give your rage a try with this.

Blade of Silence
3.5: The SA part is mediocre at best. The CDG property is nice but, like Vorpal, you can't actually use it with the WotC SK because it's a +5 enhancement.
PF: CDG is baseline, so there's even less reason to use it here.

Champion's Blade (Mantra)
3.P: This one isn't bad - you keep your psychic strike charged after each hit, but it loses one die every time it would have been discharged. This lets you do neat things like use psychic strike on iteratives. PF benefits more because you keep your psychic strike even if you miss, or hit an invalid target, preventing the charge from decreasing until you want it to. It also has interesting synergy with things like the Dual Imbue bladeskill. Give this one a look.

Blade of the Slayer
You need some kind of smite ability to make this work, and it's pretty weak even if you do. (+1 damage per feat isn't great.) The threat range increase is always nice though, but again only applies when smiting.

Bladestorm/Bladewind
These are for martial classes that use feats to make their own mindblade, not for you. Worse, by the time you meet the prereqs (in both systems) you should already have these for free without burning any feats. Skip.

Cognizance Mind Blade
Ugh! store 1PP per mind blade feat in your mind blade. Per feat! And it doesn't even count any other psionic feats! Skip.

Deceptive Mind Blade
Now we're talking. Gives you Bluff, and you can feint at the same time that you create your mind blade. This means you can feint as a free action once you have Free/Quick Draw. On top of that, two more decent feats let you charge your psychic strike while you draw your blade, saving you a move or swift action at the start of combat (though Resonant Blade is a bit of a turkey.) Recommended.

Dedication of the Hunter
Ranger is a slightly better multiclass for Soulknife than most, but the benefits here aren't really worthy of a feat. On top of that, it's a Mantra, so turning this one on rules out your other ones.

Defender's Blade
The defending property isn't the best one in the world, but being able to double it's effectiveness isn't a terrible deal, especially if you're dual-wielding and get it on both blades. Unfortunately, it's focus-dependent. Expending focus for the dodge bonus is nice at low levels but doesn't scale at all. Personally, I'd pass on this but it could be decent for more of a front-line 'knife.

Dual Wielder
3.5: Mandatory if you're dual-wielding, get this if you can. Pity it's so late.
PF: It's baseline for you, as a bladeskill! And you can get it much earlier (2nd level instead of 9th!) Skip.

Dueling Blade
3.5: Not great, but if you like Combat Expertise this synergizes okay with it I guess.
PF: This is also a bladeskill, though is a bit more limited there, so you can consider this feat if you want to increase your tanking options.

Energy Blade
3.5: One feat per energy type? Not worth it at all.
PF: You get all of these baseline, so skip.

Enlightened Warrior
Wis to attack and damage with your mind blade! Fantastic for Monk/SK builds, and best of all makes you less MAD (you can dump Str with this, and use your high Wis to grab things like Psionic Meditation). If the requirements weren't so steep I'd give it a purple rating.

Entwining Blade
3.5: Terrible for the WotC Soulknife, because your blades are likely to be too small to get much of a bonus on the trip check.
PF: You can get this as a bladeskill - skip.

Executioner's Blade
3.P: Situational, but more crits are always welcome, especially if you went with the Vorpal enhancement. I guess it could be worth a feat...

Extended Throw
3.P: Boosts the range increment on your mind blade to 100 feet, over 3x as much. Yikes! If you want a throwing build (and don't want Soulbow/Soulbolt for whatever reason) take this.

Fill the Resonant Blade
3.P: Gives you another charge option for the Psychic Strike wannabe (:smalltongue:) Resonant Blade. Requires way too many feats to be worthwhile though, even in PF.

Focused Shield
3.P: Sword and board makes a comeback? This is the "Dual Wielder" feat for Shield of Thought; If you go with the Mind Shield ability at all you will want this. For PF, you may want to hold out until Psionics Expanded releases a bladeskill for this.

Ghost Hunter
3.5: Much better - three properties for a feat, and all can be great if you're in that kind of campaign.
PF: You get one of these baseline so it's not quite as useful, but you also have the option of switching your damage type on the fly which is great when dealing with undead.
Obviously, if there aren't many undead in your campaign (when aren't there though?) you can skip this.

Hunter's Blade
3.P:Pretty much requires you to be a ranger/SK, and the "warning rattle" has way too small a range to be truly useful. Bane is nice but not worth a feat on its own.

Improved Material Harmonics
3.P: See Material Harmonics below. This one doesn't add enough to make it worthwhile for a feat, but Material Harmonics is excellent.

Improved Shape Mind Blade
3.P: Reshape as a swift instead of a full. Useful, but the prereqs are terrible since this is designed for non-soulknives. Less necessary for PF since your mindblade doesn't need reshaping every time you summon it.




Material Harmonics Lets you emulate any special material in your mind blade that you have come into contact with. Great for fighting material-based DR creatures.

I'll edit the rest in later, just don't want to lose what I have now.


Wow, thanks. I managed to completely miss deceptive mind blade, and I love using bluff. The main thing I was thinking about, though, was whether or not the feats would be a worthwhile investment for a PF monk or fighter, maybe gestalt, maybe multiclassed between the two. One thing though - wouldn't material harmonics be kinda useless in PF with the rule for enhancement bonuses bypassing material based DR with a +3?

[Grendus]

Could still be useful for things like sundering, though.

I imagine that using a SK with a sneak attack build, Quick Draw, and Deceptive Blade could be pretty awesome. Dual wield mind blades, and at the start of each round you drop the blades (a free action), manifest them again (swift action), feint the enemy (a free action), and rip them apart with a flurry of sneak attacks. Not as familiar with PF though, so I couldn't come up with a decent build.