Divine gish - the good stuff without Archivist

[Flickerdart]

Of all the rapid progression PrCs, Divine Crusader (CDiv) gets mentioned least often. While it gets 9th level spells in 9 levels, and is super easy to qualify for (2 ranks in Knowledge Religion, Weapon Focus and +7 BAB) its main problem is the tiny spell list - a Divine Crusader gets only a single domain to pick its spells from. Sure, you can use it to get into PrCs that grant domains, but doing this one at a time gets tedious.

SUDDENLY:

Unique Spells
The bard, paladin, and ranger spell lists contain a number of spells that don't appear on other classes' spell lists. In general, any character who enters one of these prestige classes should gain access to spells unique to that class's spell list, at the same levels indicated for the standard class.

The two divine PrCs, Ranger and Paladin, are all kinds of easy to enter. All you need is four feats, a pittance in skill ranks, Turn Undead and two spells - Calm Animals and Protection from Evil. Since we have seven levels to play with before heading into Divine Crusader, it's not so hard to get them. If your DM waives alignment restrictions, Soldier of Light (D&DG) gets you both Turn Undead and Protection from Evil. If not, Complete Divine has a ton of PrCs that are easy to enter and give Protection from Evil, like Pious Templar. If none of these are your speed, enter Contemplative at level 11 and grab the Good domain. You can get Calm Animals from the Animal domain (acquired in a similar fashion). You only have to jump through hoops to get one of these, because you get the other one with Divine Crusader at level 8. At level 9, take Prestige Paladin, and at level 10 Prestige Ranger. Congratulations, now you have all the Ranger spells, all the Paladin spells, a full base attack bonus and 9th level spell slots for metamagicking them or what have you. Oh, and 8 or 9 levels of whatever classes you want.

So, what can we do with all the Paladin and Ranger spells on a robust frontliner chassis?

How to get what you need:

Ways to get Calm Animals

Animal Domain
Beloved of Valarian, ECL8


Ways to get Protection from Evil

Good Domain
Pious Templar, ECL6


Ways to get Turn Undead

Sacred Exorcist, ECL12 or 13, depending on domain used to qualify
Soldier of Light, ECL6

[Olo Demonsbane]

Well, off-hand, I'd definitely grab Battle Blessing. Quicken all of your Paladin spells.

On the other hand, exactly what are you planning to do with your 9th level slots? Paladin and Ranger spells aren't exactly the ones that you'd want to foster metamagic on...I'd recommend grabbing that Ebberon prestige class that gives you a domain at each level, at the cost of 2 caster levels.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

This is rather beautiful. I've always liked the idea of a Divine Crusader having some more breathing room in so far as spells known!:smallsmile:

[Coidzor]

I think it depends upon some fiddly interpretations and the whole nature of acquiring domains, but Sovereign Speaker(The aforementioned Eberron PrC, ties you to a specific pantheon, though is fairly readily adapted to any other pantheon due to the way it lays things out) is another way of expanding the spell list, as is dipping Contemplative, IIRC.

[NecroRick]

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Let me rephrase it in the form of two other classes.

Are you saying that you believe the following would work:

Attain 9th level spells as a Druid. Take a single level of cleric. Now you can cast cleric spells with all your Druid slots?

Obviously it doesn't work that way. If you're not saying this, then please explain.

Oh wait, this is the prestige class thing isn't it. So you're saying take a single level of Divine Crusader, then take levels of 'super prestige' Paladin, which grant +1 existing/divine class and then additionally 'super prestige' Paladin has something about over-writing your class list with its own?

Ah... okay... the problem then for you is that the whole point of taking the accelerated casting schemes is to get to ninth level spells faster. But by ju-jitsuing the spell list... all that you gain access to is 4th level pally spells. At the DMs discretion, which means you actually need to bring this to his or her attention, and he or she will decide on a case by case basis.

Now then the additional problem for you is that last bit of your quote, "at the same levels indicated for the standard class".

A paladin doesn't get access to 4th level spells until level 14 at the earliest. So a perfectly reasonable interpretation of this is that after taking Divine Crusader at level 8 (assuming only Full BAB classes prior to that, and obviously not including any spell-casting classes, since normal Paladin is unavailable if Prestige Paladin is in), you need 14 more levels of Prestige Paladin before you unlock the 4th level spells.

At level 22 you would have 3 spells per day for levels 1-4 from the combination of a single domain and the paladin spell list. One more level 1 spell per day from Pious Templar, and 2 spell slots for the level 5 domain spell, 1 spell slot for the level 6 domain spell and 0 slots for the level 7 domain spell (you can use it if you bump your wisdom up to 24 I think). And no 8 or 9 casting. Also, you have spent 3 feats on Mounted Combat, Weapon Focus (deities favoured weapon) and True Believer (hope you pick a Deity with both a good melee weapon and a semi-decent relic!!!)

I'm no expert, but it seems like you're giving up an awful lot in order to gain full BAB.

[NecroRick]

I'd recommend grabbing that Ebberon prestige class that gives you a domain at each level, at the cost of 2 caster levels.

This is super-cute. However, strictly speaking it doesn't work.

Sovereign Speaker specifies that you MUST NOT favour one god above others.
Divine Crusader specifies that you MUST favour one god above others.

Other than that... yes. If you can trick your DM into letting you take a level of Divine Crusader (Sovereign host in general), then BLAMMO! You're set up to lay the smack down big time.

[sreservoir]

nope. it's just that divine crusader's spell list tends to suck (just one domain). you're adding spells to it. now it doesn't suck. as much.

[Psyren]

They cast from Cha, actually, not Wis (and in fact are Cha-SAD.)

This is a neat class to combine with Eldritch Disciple if you want 9ths and Darks without being a bastard :smallsmile:

[Coidzor]

Now then the additional problem for you is that last bit of your quote, "at the same levels indicated for the standard class".

That's referring to spell levels.


So a perfectly reasonable interpretation of this is that after taking Divine Crusader at level 8 (assuming only Full BAB classes prior to that, and obviously not including any spell-casting classes, since normal Paladin is unavailable if Prestige Paladin is in), you need 14 more levels of Prestige Paladin before you unlock the 4th level spells.

No, that would be a "I hate this idea, but rather than simply disallow it, I'm going to be disingenuous" interpretation.


Other than that... yes. If you can trick your DM into letting you take a level of Divine Crusader (Sovereign host in general), then BLAMMO! You're set up to lay the smack down big time.

Yes, because if you can worship a pantheon as your patron at all, obviously it's tricking your DM into something to have that decision be ok'd.

[Flickerdart]

Well, off-hand, I'd definitely grab Battle Blessing. Quicken all of your Paladin spells.

On the other hand, exactly what are you planning to do with your 9th level slots? Paladin and Ranger spells aren't exactly the ones that you'd want to foster metamagic on...I'd recommend grabbing that Ebberon prestige class that gives you a domain at each level, at the cost of 2 caster levels.
That's the main problem with this, yeah. Lots of fantastic spells up to 4th level, and nothing much to do with them afterwards. You could always stop at that point (Pious Templar 1/Divine Crusader 1/Prestige Paladin 1/Prestige Ranger 1/Divine Crusader 2) and get 4th level spells in 6 levels, filling the other 14 with something handy like a Crusader progression. 9th level maneuvers and full Paladin and Ranger casting to boot? Sounds like a good deal to me, and then you can take Ruby Knight Vindicator to advance Divine Crusader for even more spellcasting awesomeness. All those extra swift actions, use them to spam your Paladin auto-quickened spells and your Ranger swifts, and then maneuver it up for +lots to stuff.

[Saintheart]

This is super-cute. However, strictly speaking it doesn't work.

Sovereign Speaker specifies that you MUST NOT favour one god above others.
Divine Crusader specifies that you MUST favour one god above others.

Other than that... yes. If you can trick your DM into letting you take a level of Divine Crusader (Sovereign host in general), then BLAMMO! You're set up to lay the smack down big time

Just a quick note here, not sure if it helps: in Forgotten Realms there's Angharradh, who is known as the elven "Triune God" because he actually has three aspects that make him up: Aendrie Faenya and two others I can't remember. The argument being that, worshipping Angharradh, you are favouring one god above others, but you also are not because the god is a three-in-one.

[Coidzor]

What are the most versatile/desirable domains for a Divine Crusader anyway?

[Flickerdart]

Spell domain is very good, obviously, because it grants Anyspell, Greater Anyspell, Limited Wish and Wish. The Shadow domain grants both Shadow Conjuration and Evocation, and their Greater versions.

[NecroRick]

That's referring to spell levels.

But it doesn't say spell level. I'm not saying it can't be interpreted the way you're interpreting it, just don't be surprised if your DM interprets it a little more literally or indeed unfavourably.



No, that would be a "I hate this idea, but rather than simply disallow it, I'm going to be disingenuous" interpretation.


I didn't say that. Neither did I say that the interpretation I gave was my favoured interpretation, or the only possible interpretation.

In fact, that whole section of the SRD is liberally sprinkled with caveats about how the DM might not allow it, and/or that it is up to his discretion.


What are the most versatile/desirable domains for a Divine Crusader anyway?

Well, you have the Weapon Focus (deities favoured weapon) problem to consider.

If the weapon is martial, then you also need proficiency with it in order to qualify for the focus.

If you take the war domain, you get the focus and the proficiency for free. But you need the focus to enter the divine crusader... kind of a chicken and egg problem. If the DM is nice, perhaps you can go war domain divine crusader and use the domain power to qualify for the class. Otherwise war domain is kind of pointless.

Failing that, unless you want to waste a second feat on the weapon, the best domains would be ones for deities with simple weapons as their favoured weapon.



Spell domain is very good, obviously, because it grants Anyspell, Greater Anyspell, Limited Wish and Wish. The Shadow domain grants both Shadow Conjuration and Evocation, and their Greater versions.

Oooh, I like it :D

Magic Domain is worth mentioning as well. Then you'd be a divine caster who was unable to use almost any divine item, but had free reign with arcane ones. *twitch*

[Flickerdart]

Actually, proficiency with a martial weapon is trivial to get - since we don't care about the levels before Divine Crusader as long as they grant full BAB, a 1-level dip into Ruathar gives us proficiency with a martial weapon even if we managed not to get any beforehand.

Amusingly enough, we don't have to go full BAB if we don't want to. 3/4 BAB classes gain +7 at 10th, meaning that we'd still get 9s if we wanted them. So you could always grab Swordsage, get Weapon Focus that way.

[Coidzor]

I didn't say that. Neither did I say that the interpretation I gave was my favoured interpretation, or the only possible interpretation.

In fact, that whole section of the SRD is liberally sprinkled with caveats about how the DM might not allow it, and/or that it is up to his discretion.

Because it's excerpted from Unearthed Arcana, a book full of variant rules.

Using a variant rule but neutering it because you don't want to allow it is disingenuous.