Clone + lichdom - how would this work?

[holywhippet]

Say you have a wizard who decides to set up a "get out of death free" contingency and casts the clone spell to prepare a backup body.

Now, later on, the wizard becomes a lich in order to keep themself alive longer than their lifespan would normally allow. Then somehow the lich is killed and their phylactory is destroyed.

Does the clone spell then kick in and restore the wizard to being a living person? Or are they treated as "slain" as soon as they become an undead lich?

For that matter, the clone spell says to treat the person as though they had been brought back using raise dead. Does that mean their body will be as old as the caster was when they died or are they as old as they were when the spell was cast? If the former, what if they outlive their normal lifespan while a lich, does that mean they die of old age upon being raised in their cloned body?

[SowZ]

Say you have a wizard who decides to set up a "get out of death free" contingency and casts the clone spell to prepare a backup body.

Now, later on, the wizard becomes a lich in order to keep themself alive longer than their lifespan would normally allow. Then somehow the lich is killed and their phylactory is destroyed.

Does the clone spell then kick in and restore the wizard to being a living person? Or are they treated as "slain" as soon as they become an undead lich?

For that matter, the clone spell says to treat the person as though they had been brought back using raise dead. Does that mean their body will be as old as the caster was when they died or are they as old as they were when the spell was cast? If the former, what if they outlive their normal lifespan while a lich, does that mean they die of old age upon being raised in their cloned body?

No. Clone only works 'provided the soul is free.' A liches soul is not free.

[Crasical]

Souls is complicated. If I'm following....

Wizard casts Clone on himself.
"A duplicate can be grown while the original still lives, or when the original soul is unavailable, but the resulting body is merely a soulless bit of inert flesh, which rots if not preserved."

Okay, no problem. Gentle Repose, coat it in residuum, or something.

Wizard creates phylactary, becomes Lich. Soul now resides in phylactary (Says 'life force' in the SRD, but for now I'll assume it's the same thing).
Clone still chilling out somewhere

Lich is destroyed, soul still safe in phylactary, no change
Phylactary destroyed, soul now 'free', returns to clone and animates it.

Is how I'd guess it works.

[Shinizak]

No. Clone only works 'provided the soul is free.' A liches soul is not free.

Actually we don't know what happens to a liches soul upon creation of a phylactery. what we know is that a lich's soul is housed and kept in the phylactery upon destruction of it's undead body, but there is no mention of the nuances of where the lich's soul is before the destruction of the body. I would definately say that the clone spell might work if the soul was in the phylactery pre-body destruction and only released upon destruction of the phylactery, but if the phylactery was only a receptacle for post body destruction then the clone would probably get first dibs since it's a pre-made body made specifically for your soul.

[SowZ]

Actually we don't know what happens to a liches soul upon creation of a phylactery. what we know is that a lich's soul is housed and kept in the phylactery upon destruction of it's undead body, but there is no mention of the nuances of where the lich's soul is before the destruction of the body. I would definately say that the clone spell might work if the soul was in the phylactery pre-body destruction and only released upon destruction of the phylactery, but if the phylactery was only a receptacle for post body destruction then the clone would probably get first dibs since it's a pre-made body made specifically for your soul.

Eh, I guess it depends on your interpretation of what happens to the soul once the phylactery is destroyed. I always figured destroying a phylactery destroyed the soul but that may not be. Of course, the clone couldn't work while the Phylactery was around. Playability wise, there is no reason every intelligent lich with access to 8th level wizard spells wouldn't have clone if this works which causes some problems. Mainly, find th lich AND find his clone AND find his phylactery...

[Crasical]

Playability wise, there is no reason every intelligent lich with access to 8th level wizard spells wouldn't have clone if this works which causes some problems. Mainly, find th lich AND find his clone AND find his phylactery...

If the lich was so intelligent he'd also have contingencied teleports set up, Divination spells to scry on the party, and all the stuff that makes wizard PCs so powerful, too..

[SowZ]

If the lich was so intelligent he'd also have contingencied teleports set up, Divination spells to scry on the party, and all the stuff that makes wizard PCs so powerful, too..

Well, sure, as well as a decoy and back up dungeon. But these are all a given. The Clone thing just seems like another item find quest, which may be tiring after the already nearly impossible to find phylactery.

[Eurus]

Eh, I guess it depends on your interpretation of what happens to the soul once the phylactery is destroyed. I always figured destroying a phylactery destroyed the soul but that may not be. Of course, the clone couldn't work while the Phylactery was around. Playability wise, there is no reason every intelligent lich with access to 8th level wizard spells wouldn't have clone if this works which causes some problems. Mainly, find th lich AND find his clone AND find his phylactery...

And of course, there's no reason you can only have one clone...

Honestly, clone is the poor man's lichdom anyway. You still lose the level, sadly, but there's always a thought bottle (lol) to fix that.

[Feytalist]

For that matter, the clone spell says to treat the person as though they had been brought back using raise dead. Does that mean their body will be as old as the caster was when they died or are they as old as they were when the spell was cast? If the former, what if they outlive their normal lifespan while a lich, does that mean they die of old age upon being raised in their cloned body?

If a wizard with a clone dies of old age, I assume the clone also dies. Probably the same for the lich. No point in having a clone as a lich in any case then.

[Fouredged Sword]

Nope, die of old age - go straight to preserved non-ageing clone, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Now, can one PAO your clone into another form and still enter it? One could in therory PAO a human clone body into a pixi clone body and the duration would be permanant. - same kingdom, class and related +9 total

one lost level could be worth the dex boost and pixi natural abilities like invisability.

[2xMachina]

Permanent is kinda... meh.

Dispel magic! Poof, you're human again. (And nothing stops you from PaOing yourself rather than the clone)

[Prime32]

I assume that when you create a phylactery you put about half your soul in it. This explains why you don't die when your phylactery is destroyed, why you can't create another one afterwards, and why it is able to draw in your soul.

As such, there wouldn't be enough of your soul left to animate the clone.

EDIT: A smart lich would just use the clone as his phylactery. :smalltongue:

[2xMachina]

Is it said they can't make another Phylactery? I thought they could, so long their real body is alive to make another. So long either the body or the phylactery exists, both can be remade.

RE: Clone phylactery. Cool idea.

[BlackestOfMages]

better yet, clone the PCs and make those clones your phalacatry - it's the perfect plan!

On the OPs question, I'd assume if the phalacatry and lich are destroyed, they'd return to their clone body (so long as they can still be raised from the dead) since clone is just delayed action raise dead with a fancy name.

[GodGoblin]

If the Wizard had the Clone before becoming a Lich when he started the proccess of Lichdom wouldnt he then convert into the Clone?

You have to die to become a Lich so your soul goes to the phylactery and you become undead, I would say if you have a clone around then your soul will be transported to that instead of the phylactery.

That way you have to be cloneless to become a Lich and should stop the headaches caused by this discussion coming up in game, but imagine starting this complex ritual, chanting, building the phylactery and finally stabbing yourself in the heart as the ritual comes to fruition only to wake up in your old Wizards tower under a sheet because you forgot all about the one of many random experiments...

[Eurus]

I assume that when you create a phylactery you put about half your soul in it. This explains why you don't die when your phylactery is destroyed, why you can't create another one afterwards, and why it is able to draw in your soul.

As such, there wouldn't be enough of your soul left to animate the clone.

That makes sense; presumably when the lich dies, the part of his soul that's in his body is attracted to the part in the phylactery and returns to it. I might use that as my fluff-explanation-of-choice.