Improved Lycanthrope?

[Rossebay]

Whenever I think about taking the Lycanthrope template, I cringe. It just hurts to think about.

So, I have a question. Do you guys know of any way to mimic the effects of the Lycanthrope template without all of the build-killing hit dice and other junk?
And I mean mimic with any animal.

Let's use a Brown Bear as an example in the thread, shall we?

[Coidzor]

Well, there's this fix (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9175)which makes the HD less craptastic by making them magical beast HD instead of animal HD and makes it so that there's no level adjustment. And there are certain ways to get some utility out of RHD, but beyond things like totemist mitigating the impact of them, I'm coming up blank on specifics at the moment.

Here's a custom monster class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8183188&postcount=306)version of the werebear from our homebrew section. It's even multiclass friendly to a degree. There's a number of lycanthrope class/savage progression homebrews around as well.

For something a bit less, there's the Quasilycanthrope (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a)template(scroll to the bottom, pretty much) combined with levels in totemist.

Wildshape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) will let you turn into a bear, though would need Master of Many Forms (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19528526/updated_Master_of_Many_Forms_Bible__official_wild_ shape_rules) to get brown bear.

Also, Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) of either Geb, Osiris, or Set will get you infinite brown bear. Set's got a fairly versatile selection of forms too.

[poignant123]

Shifter/Weretouched Master, from Eberron Campaign Setting. Check if your DM wants to use the errata for its capstone. IMO, it turns from great to really really bad (and you might as well have play a MoMF instead).

[Z3ro]

Maybe I'm in the minority on this, but the fix my group has always used was to just drop the RHD. Do that, but keep the LA+2, and you've got something that is significantly more balanced. Not sure if you're looking for a homebrew solution, but that's one option that's simple to implement.

[Fouredged Sword]

The above with LA buy off.

[Rossebay]

I'd be alright with getting rid of the LA and keeping the HD as Magical Beast HD or whatever, if you guys think that's balanced. The extra abilities would act as the class features, in a way.

[Urpriest]

Shifters with the appropriate feats can mimic most lycanthropes.

[Rossebay]

Shifters with the appropriate feats can mimic most lycanthropes.

They can, but not at will... Due to the limited number of shifts per day, it doesn't seem like something that's viable.

[Urpriest]

They can, but not at will... Due to the limited number of shifts per day, it doesn't seem like something that's viable.

Sure, but if you're going thematically rather than mechanically that doesn't matter, and if you're going mechanically then the mechanics include LA and RHD.

[Fouredged Sword]

The issue is that both mechanics fail to achive what he desires. If the DM is willing to play ball with allowing him to deviate from the rules to allow for the character he wants to play, then he should be encuraged rather than dicouraged.

The is all pending the DM allowing for him to alter the rules. Prey he does not alter them any further.:smallwink:

Though a DM may allow the shapeshifter ACF for a druid to work for a wildshape ranger. Even if he removes some of the later forms, this would make an interesting character who turns into a wolf bear at will.

Even a dip into shapeshifer druid would grant at will transformation into a beastial form all day every day, and at less of a cost than a 2 LA template. Take the spontanious regenerator ACF as well for werebeast like fast healing in bursts. The druidic avenger could net you rage on top of all that as well.

[Rossebay]

The issue is that both mechanics fail to achive what he desires. If the DM is willing to play ball with allowing him to deviate from the rules to allow for the character he wants to play, then he should be encuraged rather than dicouraged.

The is all pending the DM allowing for him to alter the rules. Prey he does not alter them any further.:smallwink:

Though a DM may allow the shapeshifter ACF for a druid to work for a wildshape ranger. Even if he removes some of the later forms, this would make an interesting character who turns into a wolf bear at will.

Even a dip into shapeshifer druid would grant at will transformation into a beastial form all day every day, and at less of a cost than a 2 LA template. Take the spontanious regenerator ACF as well for werebeast like fast healing in bursts. The druidic avenger could net you rage on top of all that as well.

Ah, thanks. I was hoping for something more mechanically... 'Hybrid', I guess, but it appears that the only way to do it is through using the actual template, or something mechanically inconvenient.

I'll try what I can, haha. Thanks.

[Coidzor]

Totemist or Incarnate levels/Shape Soulmeld (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=551.0)+ Enlarge Person - Hybrid form is fairly well mimicked.

[pilvento]

The best option i know so far and the one im using now :smallwink:

WEREWOLF http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a

WERETIGER http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031212a

WEREBEAR http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031114a

Hope it helps, in our campaing we are lvl 5 now, my friends got 5 lvls in clases and i got 2LA/werewolf2/barbarian1 its balanced exept when u go hybrid but in mid/late lvls it gets balanced again since stats dont matter that much as u advance in lvl.

[HunterOfJello]

How come no one has mentioned the Bear Warrior yet? For shame people! For Shame!


Okay, there's a class called the Bear Warrior that turns into a bear every time that they rage. Their strength gets boosted by quite a bit and they're a freaking bear for that duration.

Granted, this class doesn't let you be a true lycanthrope, but it gives you a strong boost any time you shapechange into bear form and gives you full BAB progression along with a d12 hit die. The only real prerequisite is Power Attack, which any real hard hitting melee build will have anyway. A barbarian 1 with the Extra Rage feat will already have 3 rages per day and you can go up to Barbarian 4 for another few good abilities along with 1 more rage/day. You can take the Extra Rage feat multiple times, but having 3 or 4 rages should be good for a normal day of fighting if you use other dipping options. There are probably other good ways to improve the rage uses and get more per day, but i'm not too familiar with barbarian PrCs.

[poignant123]

If it's permitted, then take Primeval and pick your Primal Form as Brown Bear to stack another +16 Bonus to your Str :D

[Glimbur]

What happens when one loses levels to level drain? Do the pesky RHD go away? If so, what happens when you gain a level after that?

[Coidzor]

What happens when one loses levels to level drain? Do the pesky RHD go away? If so, what happens when you gain a level after that?

That is one, well, not popular, but a way of dealing with that. Predicated on either A. the idea that one can lose RHD 1st, especially if one is an afflicted lycanthrope and the LA+RHD are enough to keep your character from leveling up again that campaign, or B. that one can drain down to 1 and then trade that sole RHD for one's first class level and be halfway to level 2. I think, I might be misremembering it slightly.

[Fouredged Sword]

A shapeshifting druidic avenger 1 / whirling frenzy barbarian x / bear warrior x / warshaper x.

shapeshift into a bear, rage, frenzy, turn into more of a bear, and then increase the size of your bear claws EVEN BIGGER.

Bernard Barington, Bear Berington's less somewhat less bear like but more unbearably angry brother.

[Rossebay]

A shapeshifting druidic avenger 1 / whirling frenzy barbarian x / bear warrior x / warshaper x.

shapeshift into a bear, rage, frenzy, turn into more of a bear, and then increase the size of your bear claws EVEN BIGGER.

Bernard Barington, Bear Berington's less somewhat less bear like but more unbearably angry brother.

Hahaha. Yeah, that build should work. Thanks!

[Fouredged Sword]

The build is strongest compared to it's level at 3rd or so level. Extra rage taken at 3rd level grants extra uses of both druid based rage and barbarian based whirling frenzy.

Shapeshifting into a bear grants +4 to str (I think AFB right now). Rage grants +4 untyped. Whirling frenzy grants another +4 untyped.

When going all out you get +12 str and two attacks, far out powering anything else at your level for damage.

Bear warrior stacks even more strength onto the build, as well as some size increased (AFB, may be wrong)

Once you get into bear warrior you have basically 3 forms of lacanthropy. Human, little bear, and big bear form.

VOP may serve you well as you will have a hard time with items and the shapeshifter druid varrient.

Warshaper will grant you self healing.

[AngelisBlack]

There's always the Bite of the Were- line of spells. It won't give you the templete, but it will give you the massive ability score boosts and in some cases a feat. If you could find a way to persist them all day, it would be great.

[Melayl]

If you didn't have a specific class you wanted to use with the lycanthrope, you could try my Beast Warrior class (in my sig). It was designed to mimic much of what a lycanthrope could do, and be versitile enough to mimic any animal.

I had an old lycanthrope class, too, but I think that was on WotC's boards, and I think it needed work...