Any good Healer fixes out there?

[Malimar]

I'm thinking of rejiggering the Healer base class slightly, despite my usual "magic doesn't need nice things" policy. Are there any precedents or posts where people have worked out the best way to bump it up to tier 3 or so?

Alternately, if there aren't such threads: I'm specifically thinking of the following two changes:

A healer may spontaneously cast any spell on the healer spell list.
All Conjuration [Healing] spells are added to the healer's spell list at the same level a cleric could cast them.


The former seems like the most common house rule and doesn't seem particularly problematic. The latter fixes what seems to be the most common complaint ("No vigor!"), but I don't know how it would actually affect balance, if at all. Are either of these two things a bad idea? Is the class in dire need of anything beyond these two changes?

[Ravens_cry]

For fairly low optimization, it sounds great. It allows them to do their niche better, healing people, without the "Anything you can do, I can do better" of clerics.

[faceroll]

the "Anything you can do, I can do better" of clerics.

Honestly, that only becomes apparent with DMM cheese, namely quicken or persist. Otherwise, it's "anything you can do, it takes me ten rounds of casting spells to do, and then I can only do it for a minute or two."

At higher levels when you can burn 7th and 8th level spell slots to quicken 3rd and 4ths, it gets a little better.

[Gnaeus]

Also, add some defensive buffs so that they can do something in the first part of combat other than wait around for someone to get hurt. Nothing world shaking, stuff like bears endurance or prayer.

[noparlpf]

What I did last time I wanted an NPC healer (because the party of two consisted of a paladin and a ranger) was to take the healer (rather than looking through all the cleric spells), stick on the UA spontaneous divine caster variant, and give her the cure spells & the like for free where the 0s are on the spontaneous divine caster table.
I'm considering making Heal a level lower when it becomes pertinent, and possibly adding a few other healing sorts of spells. We're only level three right now, and I'm going away to school today, so that game is on hold for a while.

As for basic mechanics, I used Augment Healing and Magic of the Land to boost healing. A friend of mine who played a Healer a few times dipped one level of Hierophant for the 30-foot reach on touch spells; I might do that later for the NPC healer.

[Gnaeus]

Oh, and maybe give it a domain related to its deity so that it can use imbued healing.

[Daedroth]

Look for the healer of T.G.Oskar, its really good!:smallbiggrin:

[noparlpf]

I like the idea of adding a domain. It gives a tiny bit more customization than just going with the tiny spell list they currently have.
Adding all of the Conjuration [Healing] spells would be a formidable task, considering all the books out there, but it's a reasonable idea too. I forgot to say that before.

Buffs I'm not so sure about. Healers heal. They're not general support. If you add buffs to their spell list you have to change the name of the class to buffhealer and that sounds rather odd.

[ryzouken]

Fix for the Healer: the Cleric.

...

Just remove the limitation on the Healer's spell pool. Give them the whole cleric suite. Instant 'fix.'

But then, I completely miss the point of the Healer's existence in the first place. (wait, you're optimizing a character to focus in healing, one of the most inefficient things a character can do in combat? Something that cheap magic items can replicate? And that's the whole focus of your character? Oh, you can also throw some buff spells from time to time? Why are we letting you have a portion of xp again?)

[Greenish]

Fix for the Healer: the Cleric.That's like fixing a flat tyre on your car by buying a tank.

[noparlpf]

Fix for the Healer: the Cleric.

...

Just remove the limitation on the Healer's spell pool. Give them the whole cleric suite. Instant 'fix.'

But then, I completely miss the point of the Healer's existence in the first place. (wait, you're optimizing a character to focus in healing, one of the most inefficient things a character can do in combat? Something that cheap magic items can replicate? And that's the whole focus of your character? Oh, you can also throw some buff spells from time to time? Why are we letting you have a portion of xp again?)

"Well, you can keep your XP. And your unhealed damage. Later."
And then the healer leaves the party. You buy a Wand of Cure Critical Wounds and pump UMD, but you have no way of bringing back the dead short of hiking all the way back to a major city with big fancy temples.

[ryzouken]

"Well, you can keep your XP. And your unhealed damage. Later."
And then the healer leaves the party. You buy a Wand of Cure Critical Wounds and pump UMD, but you have no way of bringing back the dead short of hiking all the way back to a major city with big fancy temples.

Or a Staff of Life. Or a Druid. Or a (real) Cleric. Or I could take levels in Ur-Priest later. Or take Leadership and attract an Adept cohort (gets Heal and Raise Dead!) Or cast some variant of Planar Ally and negotiate with extraplanar beings. Or pop a Candle of Invocation for similar effect.

Or I could bury the honorable dead and recruit some other hopeful adventurer since apparently the world is lousy with them. Seriously, it's like every time we lose someone and can't get them raised, some new weirdo is just sitting around town, twiddling their thumbs, looking for adventure. That or we come across some random prisoner somewhere, or a random druid wanders over the top of us and chooses to join our noble quest... don't these people have better things to do than go looking for trouble?!

Seriously, I've been in parties with healers. I would've rather been with any other class (other than Truenamer. Geez those guys are total garbage...) and that was WITH an optimizer and a sympathetic GM that was massaging extra spells into the spell list. Still not useful.

And what's wrong with fixing a flat tire by buying a tank? Tanks are cool, and I won't have to deal with flat tires anymore! (unless it's got road wheels... then I might have to deal with flats... hmm... do tank road wheels have air in them? I suppose I could just roll on the tracks regardless of terrain...)

[Gnaeus]

Buffs I'm not so sure about. Healers heal. They're not general support. If you add buffs to their spell list you have to change the name of the class to buffhealer and that sounds rather odd.

The problems with the class are basically as follows:
1. As written, the cleric is actually better at healing (easily fixed)
2. In combat healing is rarely a good idea. You are usually better doing something to hurt the enemy.
3. There are lots of situations where healing just doesn't help! Social encounters. Obstacles. Information gathering. Fights where your buddy hasn't been hit yet.

1 is fixed by giving healers a domain (or 2 domains, one of which must be Healing)
2 is just unfortunate.
3 is a killer.

If Fix means "Make healer able to do its job in a tier 4-5 party" or "make a healer as good as a cleric at healing" you can get there by giving them spontaneous casting off their list and one or two toys like domains.

If Fix means "Make healer a worthwhile class for a PC to take in the sweet spot for balance around high T4 or T3" then you have to give them something useful to do when healing doesn't help. This doesn't have to be the awesome spread of a T1, maybe just an Advanced Learning feature from cleric spells, or a couple of utility spells or buffs.

[Chess435]

I'd also give them Turn Undead since they use Positive Energy so well. Possibly even at higher power than an equivalent level cleric.

[Psyren]

Buffs I'm not so sure about. Healers heal. They're not general support. If you add buffs to their spell list you have to change the name of the class to buffhealer and that sounds rather odd.

I think they should have some buffs. Following the philosophy that "an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure," a Healer would embrace magic that allows them to prevent wounds just as much as magic that lets them treat wounds already received.

Bull's Strength though is too general a buff for the Healer, and worse has more offensive uses than defensive, so I would rule that one out. But buffs like Sanctuary, Shield of Faith, Shield Other, Repulsion, even Aid I could see.


I'd also give them Turn Undead since they use Positive Energy so well. Possibly even at higher power than an equivalent level cleric.

I don't agree with this at all; If you give them TU they may as well be clerics.

[deuxhero]

I'd give them an ability that meets the requirement for stuff as thought it were turning (Because they lack RSoP and such otherwise), but isn't turning.

What it would do other than meet the requirements I have no idea.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Honestly, that only becomes apparent with DMM cheese, namely quicken or persist. Otherwise, it's "anything you can do, it takes me ten rounds of casting spells to do, and then I can only do it for a minute or two."

At higher levels when you can burn 7th and 8th level spell slots to quicken 3rd and 4ths, it gets a little better.

CoDzilla was originally core only. The "C" is there for a reason. They can become melee monsters with two rounds, for Divine Power and Righteous Might.

[Psyren]

I'd give them an ability that meets the requirement for stuff as thought it were turning (Because they lack RSoP and such otherwise), but isn't turning.

What it would do other than meet the requirements I have no idea.

Maybe a positive energy burst that heals living creatures but harms undead.

[Drachasor]

Hmm, it would seem to me that Gestalting them with a Teir 4 or 5 class would not bump them beyond Tier 3.

[fryplink]

Maybe a Healing Aura like the Dragon Disciple can get? A class ability that makes all Healing spell double their range (and, those with touch range get a range of 30). And, because honestly, in the world, disease and poison happen more often then actual cuts and breaks (unless you are a murderous hobo) cure poison and remove disease at will [as spell likes] (not a huge power hike, but a really fluffy one that would be great for rp)

[Malimar]

Also, add some defensive buffs so that they can do something in the first part of combat other than wait around for someone to get hurt. Nothing world shaking, stuff like bears endurance or prayer.

Hm, yes, as somebody said, the "ounce of prevention = pound of cure" thing. I'm not a huge fan of the <Animal's> <Adjective> line in particular (too flavorless), and not really knowledgeable enough about buffing spells to know what should or shouldn't be added.

How about something like the Warmage's Advanced Learning, where every certain number of levels the healer may add any abjuration spell of her choice to her list?


I like the idea of adding a domain. It gives a tiny bit more customization than just going with the tiny spell list they currently have.
Adding all of the Conjuration [Healing] spells would be a formidable task, considering all the books out there, but it's a reasonable idea too. I forgot to say that before.

I was thinking the onus would be on the player for adding the Conjuration [Healing] spells. They can cast it, no matter what book it's in, but they're the ones who need to track down and find it.


I'd give them an ability that meets the requirement for stuff as thought it were turning (Because they lack RSoP and such otherwise), but isn't turning.

What it would do other than meet the requirements I have no idea.

Something like the Paladin's Lay On Hands, maybe? Though "an extra way to heal" may be slightly redundant.


Look for the healer of T.G.Oskar, its really good!:smallbiggrin:

This one? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133118) I was hoping to fiddle with the healer to make it more effective in maybe one or two ways, not completely revamp it from start to finish. However, that may have some good ideas I can gank, so thanks.

Hey, he had the Advanced Learning idea, too. Except maybe that's not so hot if I give them a domain, too. Too many ways to get extra spells on their list becomes redundant.

That spell list goes too far beyond healing/light buffing. I don't want to make a mini-cleric, I want to make a healbot.


Maybe a Healing Aura like the Dragon Disciple can get? A class ability that makes all Healing spell double their range (and, those with touch range get a range of 30). And, because honestly, in the world, disease and poison happen more often then actual cuts and breaks (unless you are a murderous hobo) cure poison and remove disease at will [as spell likes] (not a huge power hike, but a really fluffy one that would be great for rp)

They do get those, as well as cleansing paralysis and fear, 1/day. At will seems a little excessive (especially because they can cast them spontaneously now, too). On the other hand, 1/day seems very miserly. And changing it to a number of times per day equal to the healer's charisma modifier seems like too minor a change to even include. A conundrum.

---

Another thought, to make them drastically better at healing than the cleric (and bring them into the "can do only one thing, but can do that thing better than anybody else" category): would changing the spell list so the healer can cast any Conjuration [Healing] spell (including those already on her list) one spell level earlier than the cleric can break anything too badly?

Okay, so, consider: as the base healer, except:
Healers cast spontaneously from any spell they know, and know the existing spell list by default.
Healers also know all Conjuration [Healing] spells, one spell level earlier than a cleric knows them.
At fourth level, a healer may choose either a domain or Turn Undead:
If she chooses to gain a domain, she selects any domain granted by her deity or cause. She may choose the healing domain even if her deity does not offer it. She gains the granted power of the chosen domain and adds its spells to her spells known.
If she chooses to turn undead, she may do so as a cleric a number of times per day equal to 3+her charisma modifier. She turns undead as a cleric of three levels lower would.


I doubt anyone would choose turn undead over a domain except for some specific build that requires turn undead to get into a prestige class. But if they want it, it's there for the taking.

I don't know that I'm a particularly huge fan of the above. I don't want "cleric, but less so", I want "healer". But I also don't want to add too many changes or new mechanics.

[stack]

Channel positive energy like a pathfinder cleric. Heals 1d6 per per two levels in a burst, use a feat to make it selective. Useable 3+CHA mod/day. Takes a lot of healing load from the spells, freeing slots for protections and buffs.

[faceroll]

I'd give the class some class features; maybe by removing caster level caps on healing spells, giving them spontaneous access to their whole list, and maybe letting them place carrier effects when they use healing spells.

Something like a free repeating spell metamagic effect 1/day/class level on conjuration healing spells and giving the subject of their spells DR X/- where X is half their caster level, duration 3 rounds. Stuff life that. Make the healing more action efficient.

Maybe at higher levels let them place healing effects on their spells like bless and prayer (do they get bless and prayer? they should).


CoDzilla was originally core only. The "C" is there for a reason. They can become melee monsters with two rounds, for Divine Power and Righteous Might.

With those two spells, they basically become better geared NPC warriors. Trust me. I've played many games with core Czillas, and those two rounds of buffing usually waste 1/3rd of the combat rounds. By that time, the fighter and rogue have already done 100+ damage.

Can they become fighters? Yeah, absolutely, but at a pretty noticeable action disadvantage until you're already to the part where the casters have broken the game into little pieces (levels 15+), or if you like games with DMM.

[Drachasor]

Eh, doesn't seem to me like "more healing" is the stuff of a good healer fix.

[Malimar]

I hadn't realized until I actually started doing it that much of the healer's spell list does already consist of Conjuration (Healing) spells cast at one spell level lower than a cleric can. Which makes me feel better about doing it this way, because now I understand that's the precedent.

So I guess the proposed revised spell list is as follows:

0th: create water (PHb), cure light wounds (PHb), cure minor wounds (PHb), deathwatch (PHb), detect magic (PHb), detect poison (PHb), faith healing (SpC), healthful rest (SpC), lesser vigor (SpC), light (PHb), Mending (PHb), purify food and drink (PHb), preserve organ (BoVD), read magic (PHb)

1st: bless (PHb), bless water (PHb), close wounds (SpC), conduit of life (CC), cure moderate wounds (PHb), delay disease (SpC), delay poison (PHb), ease pain (BoED), Estanna's stew (BoED), goodberry (PHb), hydrate (SS), peacebond (CtyS), protection from evil (PHb), remove addiction (BoED), remove fear (PHb), remove paralysis (PHb), lesser restoration (PHb), sanctuary (PHb), speak with animals (PHb), stabilize (SpC)

2nd: aid (PHb), avoid planar effects (PHb), body ward (CC), calm emotions (PHb), cure serious wounds (PHb), gentle repose (PHb), insignia of healing (RoD), refreshment (BoED), remove blindness/deafness (PHb), remove disease (PHb), remove nausea (BoED), rigor mortis (HoH), vigor (SpC), mass lesser vigor (SpC)

3rd: channeled divine health (PHb2), create food and water (PHb), cure critical wounds (PHb), hoard life (RotD), mass aid (PHb), neutralize poison (PHb), positive energy aura (SpC), regroup (PhB2), remove curse (PHb), restoration (PHb), revenance (SpC), seed of life (CC), seek eternal rest (SpC), status (PHb), unicorn horn (CM)

4th: death ward (PHb), delay death (PHb) mass cure light wounds (PHb), darts of life (CC), energetic healing (BoED), freedom of movement (PHb), healing circle (CC), magic convalescence (PHb2), panacea (SpC), raise dead (PHb), remove fatigue (BoED), rejuvenation coccoon (SpC), revivify (SpC), tree healing (PGtF), greater vigor (SpC), sheltered vitality (SpC), warding gems (BoED)

5th: atonement (PHb), break enchantment (PHb), dance of the unicorn (SpC), hibernate (FB), ice to flesh (FB), mass cure moderate wounds (PHb), heal (PHb), revive outsider (SpC), stone to flesh (PHb), true seeing (PHb), unicorn blood (CM), vigorous circle (SpC), zone of peace (CS)

6th: mass cure serious wounds (PHb), fortunate Fate (SpC), graeter status (BoED), heroes' feast (PHb), regenerate (PHb), rejuvenating light (CC), renewal pact (SpC), greater restoration (PHb), mass restoration (SpC), resurrection (PHb)

7th: mass cure critical wounds (PHb), detoxify (ECS), repulsion (PHb), unicorn heart (CM)

8th: discern location (PHb), holy aura (PHb), mass death ward (SpC), mass heal (PHb), true resurrection (PHb)

9th: foresight (PHb), gate (PHb)

Added all the Conjuration [Healing] spells that weren't already on the healer's list, at one level lower than the cleric can cast them.

Left out heal mount and heal animal companion, because you get real heal before you get the unicorn anyway. Left panacea at its original spell level, because one of the many things it does is mimic neutralize poison so it makes no sense for them to be the same level, even though they are for the cleric. Left out touch of restoration because the healer doesn't have lay on hands.

Also, while I was at it, added (at their original cleric levels, because, though appopriate for a healer, they're not Conjuration (Healing) spells) ice to flesh, aid, mass aid, avoid planar effects, bless, , [i]dance of the unicorn, mass death ward (because it's the mass form of a spell the healer already gets), delay death, hibernate, peacebond, preserve organ (maybe you need to keep an organ safe for somebody!), regroup, rigor mortis, sheltered vitality, unicorn horn, unicorn blood, unicorn heart, and zone of peace.

[faceroll]

Eh, doesn't seem to me like "more healing" is the stuff of a good healer fix.

Then play a cleric.

The class is called "Healer", not "CoDzilla".

It's like playing a fighter and wondering why you can't fly.


Personally, I'd want to see a Healer like TF2s medic.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

I'm thinking of rejiggering the Healer base class slightly, despite my usual "magic doesn't need nice things" policy. Are there any precedents or posts where people have worked out the best way to bump it up to tier 3 or so?

Alternately, if there aren't such threads: I'm specifically thinking of the following two changes:

A healer may spontaneously cast any spell on the healer spell list.
All Conjuration [Healing] spells are added to the healer's spell list at the same level a cleric could cast them.


The former seems like the most common house rule and doesn't seem particularly problematic. The latter fixes what seems to be the most common complaint ("No vigor!"), but I don't know how it would actually affect balance, if at all. Are either of these two things a bad idea? Is the class in dire need of anything beyond these two changes?

In the spell compendium they suggest that you give the healer a number of spells to increase their power and versatility. Look here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6849.0) for that list and a really good handbook on them. Also I suggest a one level dip into cloister cleric and a one level dip into radiant servant. This will give you a decent amount of turn undead attempts to fuel Divine Metamagic which in itself is a huge fix. (I would only suggest radiant servant if you rule that it gives you turn undead if you don't already have it, allowing you to switch turn into destroy undead on the cloister cleric.) Another fix that helps (in my opinion) is to make their primary stat Cha instead of Wis or just take the feat dynamic priest.

[Drachasor]

Again, how is making a healer better at healing going to make them Tier 3? They still can't do ANYTHING else. Poor BAB, the Unicorn companion at level 8 doesn't look very good in combat as far as I can tell.

With their skills...at BEST they could be Tier 4.

Oh, interesting. The DCs on their saves in inexplicable Charisma, because...you know...that was a little too powerful for them (though that doesn't really matter since I am not sure they have anything that imposes a save, still a bit funny though).


Faceroll, the OP said they want a Tier 3 Healer, and to be in Tier 3 they are going to have to be able to do some significant stuff besides healing. One-trick ponies don't make it to Tier 3.

[Tvtyrant]

Grant the healer a passive healing aura that gives every ally fast healing, with 1 point of fast healing a round for every 2 levels, giving your party fast heal 10 at level 20. The give it more healing spells and the ability to grant a round of damage immunity to an ally every 5 rounds at level 10.

[Malimar]

"Tier 3: Capable of doing one thing quite well, while still being useful when that one thing is inappropriate, or..."

As written, the healer can't do healing particularly well at all. To bring her up to tier 4, she needs to be able to do that one thing quite well. Once she can do that, then we can look at making her also useful when that one thing is inappropriate, to bring her up to tier 3. But, even when doing that, it is important to remember that the class is called healer, not cleric-except-less-so.

(She does have charisma as a key ability (we should probably just ditch the wisdom component entirely and make her casting key entirely off charisma) and both diplomacy and sense motive as class skills, so she makes an adequate party face in the absence of, say, a bard or a telepath. And even if that weren't true, the domain/turn undead choice can make her more useful in other situations, depending on what she picks.)

[Psyren]

Don't forget the Sanctified Spells from BoED - Healers get all of them by RAW and can easily take care of the sacrifice costs.

[Kenneth]

this is how I have the basic heals in 3rd ed

CLW 1d8
CMW 2D8+5
CSW 3D8+10
CCW 4D8+15
CGW 5D8+20

instead of the healing domain make you 1 CL higher it allows you to heal for an additional 20% (rounded up) and does stack with empower.

so take an averaged HP Barbarian con 14 and 9th level you get 82 HP. now the 9th levle cleric cast Cure Greivous Wounds and heals for an average 40 HP with a max of 60, while one with the healing domain averages 48 HP and maxes 72. for me that is pretty respectable.

now lets bump that up 2 levels the lvl 11 Barbarian has 95 HP and the cleric casting heal heals for 110, while the one with the healing domain heals for 132 HP. lets make a barb having some more con and having rolled a bit better than his counterpart giving him 126 HP. even with this much HP the cleric casting CGW is healing for around 1/3 of his HP up to just over half if he has the healing domain, still respectable as most stock enemies are dealing around the same kind of amage, providing none terrible rolls for the barabrian.

Of course if you are onle of thos eplayer who make something that can do 250 dmg in a melee attack at level 11 then this of course means that a heal of any sort is all but useless.


of course this is just an idea of mine. and while it works in my games it may or may not work with yours

[deuxhero]

Personally, I'd want to see a Healer like TF2s medic.

!

I think I've got it! </Luke>

The "turn undead" equivalent could be based on ze Ubercharge!


Ability to make the Healer and one ally immune to HP/Ability damage and death effects (But not stats effects, nor abilities that effect the field ect.) for some time (1 round or 2) a fixed number of times (3+cha if you go standard turns) a day at the cost of the healer's standard action (meaning they can only move and cast quickened spells) could work. It wouldn't be redundant at least.

If mimicking the "needs to heal x HP before using" is needed requires someone with more op-fu to answer.


There is still the question of how to work Improved Turning (which is required for some PRCs the Healer should get into) though.

[Drachasor]

Still horrible. You guys want a HEALER and you're making a nursemaid (no offense to nursemaids intended).

This class needs to become immune to poison, disease, blindness, and other status effects over time.

This class needs to be able to suppress the effect of status effects on others, with more types suppressible as they level. If the suppression lasts longer than the effect would, the effect never takes place. They need to be able to heal suppressed effects while they are suppressed. Eventually they should be able to delay death itself.

They need to be able to heal just about anything, even things that normally can't be healed. Cure spells should affect constructs at some point and the like (but not undead, imho). They need to be able to heal at range.

The Spell List needs Contigency and every sort of spell that lets you cast more than one spell at once or store spells or cast spells more quickly. Arcane Spellsurge and such. It needs Clone, Awaken, and other things that deal with biology/life (I think incarnate construct is appropriate). They should get some buffs that seem appropriate biologically or healing speaking, like Haste.

Instead of Turn Undead they should get Heal Undead, which does 1d8/level damage to one undead (no save, possible touch attack), or 1d8/level to a group (will save for half). Yeah, Undead don't heal well. This should work on a similar system to turning and count as turning for feats and prerequisites.

They should have 3/4 BAB and 6 skill points per level. They should start with light or medium armor proficiency and have no restrictions on the type of item they can wear. They should start with one or two martial weapon proficiencies.

That's where we should be starting from.

[Psyren]

I'll stick with the Vitalist while y'all argue :smallamused:

(<3 DSP)

[Lord.Sorasen]

Don't forget the Sanctified Spells from BoED - Healers get all of them by RAW and can easily take care of the sacrifice costs.

A lot of people want to take healers and make them spontaneous casters. It seems like a really obvious fix, because really a healer who can't be prepared for all the bizarre situations at once isn't all that good.

The problem is when you do that you lose sanctified spells. Sanctified spells happen to be really good. Celestial aspect can give you flight or a holy weapon or charge horns. Blinding every evil creature within 100 feet is also extremely powerful. If you're a spontaneous caster you lose access to many of the best healer spells around. So, my advice? Give healer spontaneous casting, and give it access to sanctified spells... Perhaps something like a domain. It fits incredibly well with their theme and it just seems right.

Get rid of wisdom as a requirement, and that nonsense "good with animals" fluff bit, which includes the druidic inability to use metal armor.

[Drachasor]

Get rid of wisdom as a requirement, and that nonsense "good with animals" fluff bit, which includes the druidic inability to use metal armor.

Nothing says "friendly" like wearing the skin of whatever you're being friendly with, eh?

[Psyren]

I think it should just be able to spontaneously cast all spells from the Healing domain, and have to prepare all the others, personally. It should also be able to spontaneously apply metamagic to these spells.

That way they keep the Sanctified spells but are still awesome heals.

[Drachasor]

I think it should just be able to spontaneously cast all spells from the Healing domain, and have to prepare all the others, personally. It should also be able to spontaneously apply metamagic to these spells.

I'd say they should be able to spontaneously convert any spell to any Conjuration (Healing) spell as well as apply metamagic without the usual trouble.

[faceroll]

stuff

Looks like a crappy F&K "fix".

OP wants T3, not another wizard clone.


"Tier 3: Capable of doing one thing quite well, while still being useful when that one thing is inappropriate, or..."

As written, the healer can't do healing particularly well at all. To bring her up to tier 4, she needs to be able to do that one thing quite well. Once she can do that, then we can look at making her also useful when that one thing is inappropriate, to bring her up to tier 3. But, even when doing that, it is important to remember that the class is called healer, not cleric-except-less-so.

(She does have charisma as a key ability (we should probably just ditch the wisdom component entirely and make her casting key entirely off charisma) and both diplomacy and sense motive as class skills, so she makes an adequate party face in the absence of, say, a bard or a telepath. And even if that weren't true, the domain/turn undead choice can make her more useful in other situations, depending on what she picks.)

I would make the Healer good at healing and other things by making its healing more efficient and putting carrier buffs on the heals. Then give it 4 skill points a level and a useful domain.

Basically a divine bard.

And for the love of pelor, make it cast like dread necro/warmage/beguiler.

[Psyren]

I'd say they should be able to spontaneously convert any spell to any Conjuration (Healing) spell as well as apply metamagic without the usual trouble.

I'm not so sure about making it that broad. Healing is pretty much all they do, so you might as well make them fully spontaneous at that point. There's not much else they can fill their slots with - lesser restoration? Remove paralysis? How many of those do you even need per day? - and that kind of defeats the purpose of having to choose your spells ahead of time anyway.

[Coidzor]

Maybe a positive energy burst that heals living creatures but harms undead.

Pathfinder and, I think, Expedition to Castle Ravenloft even have some groundwork laid for that.


Hey, he had the Advanced Learning idea, too. Except maybe that's not so hot if I give them a domain, too. Too many ways to get extra spells on their list becomes redundant.

Domains are for more than just extra spells.


And for the love of pelor, make it cast like dread necro/warmage/beguiler.

Seconded, I'd like to see both Healer and Duskblade/Hexblade/gish-in-a-can revamps of this nature. Even toyed with the idea of bards along those lines, but even with their unique spells to draw from, didn't really seem to avoid feeling too samey to the beguiler list.

[Drachasor]

Looks like a crappy F&K "fix".

OP wants T3, not another wizard clone.

How does that make them a wizard clone? Did you even read what I wrote? Pretty much everything I listed was all about making them better at healing. Those better spells? They can pretty much ONLY use them with healing anyhow, so that makes them a better healer.

Did you have a problem with them getting a few buffs? Really? Did you have a problem with 3/4 BAB or something else? What?

T3 means they have to be competent at things besides healing. You can buff their healing until the cows come home and that won't move them beyond T4. Hence buffs, 3/4 or perhaps even full BAB, and so forth. Also give them the ability to be very flexible regarding handling debuffs (e.g. counter all debuffs) would help them a lot.


I'm not so sure about making it that broad. Healing is pretty much all they do, so you might as well make them fully spontaneous at that point. There's not much else they can fill their slots with - lesser restoration? Remove paralysis? How many of those do you even need per day? - and that kind of defeats the purpose of having to choose your spells ahead of time anyway.

Well, I guess spontaneous caster, but can prepare slots for sanctified spells or just all spontaneous then? There's no particular reason not to make them largely spontaneous given their limited spell selection. Heck, even with all the sorts of spells I said should be added to the list, the overall number of spells is pretty darn small.

[Psyren]

How does that make them a wizard clone? Did you even read what I wrote? Pretty much everything I listed was all about making them better at healing. Those better spells? They can pretty much ONLY use them with healing anyhow, so that makes them a better healer.

I think he was referring to the Contingency, Clone and other stuff that really don't fit them at all.



Well, I guess spontaneous caster, but can prepare slots for sanctified spells or just all spontaneous then? There's no particular reason not to make them largely spontaneous given their limited spell selection. Heck, even with all the sorts of spells I said should be added to the list, the overall number of spells is pretty darn small.

I'm actually fine with them being spontaneous so long as they don't lose access to Sanctified spells. Spontaneous Sanctified spells should probably remain the Cleric's province though, especially since very few of them are related to healing.

[Drachasor]

I think he was referring to the Contingency, Clone and other stuff that really don't fit them at all.

Clone is more flavor than anything else (same with Awaken and such, that's just biology-themed seasoning in the list). Fits well enough. Contingency? How does that not fit? It's a great thing for them to have for their healing spells. You have to consider how spells like that interact with their spell list. Being able to store up bits of healing and the like to quickly unleash later is perfect for them, as are spells that let them cast more healing spells or better healing spells. Since this would be the vast majority of their list...that's pretty much any spell that lets them hold a random spell for later or cast multiple spells at once.

Their spell list and class abilities should be all about making them the best dang healers EVER, BAR NONE. That means giving them a lot of flexibility with it, which means spells like Contingency, being able to delay status effects, etc, etc. If you expand the flexibility of their heal-flavored abilities enough, they could potentially get close to Tier 3, with just a little more spells and abilities to round things out.

And again, spells like Contingency help the super-healer bit, since it means they can set up healing and the like to go off when needed even if they can't cast or whatever.

All I am saying is that you either go full-tilt on them being awesome healers and healing gods, or you have to go with giving them a lot of non-healer stuff for flexibility. Might as well just let them Gestalt any T4 or T5 at that point (adds a ton of variety to what a healer is).


I'm actually fine with them being spontaneous so long as they don't lose access to Sanctified spells. Spontaneous Sanctified spells should probably remain the Cleric's province though, especially since very few of them are related to healing.

Right, but I think the Healer should also be able to spontaneously be able to heal blindness and the like. So one way or another they need to be able to spontaneously cast pretty much any Conjuration (Healing) spell.

[Coidzor]

Well, I guess spontaneous caster, but can prepare slots for sanctified spells or just all spontaneous then? There's no particular reason not to make them largely spontaneous given their limited spell selection. Heck, even with all the sorts of spells I said should be added to the list, the overall number of spells is pretty darn small.

I'd say just add sanctified spells to their class list, at a certain point if you really feel it necessary.

[Malimar]

...huh. I hadn't realized spontaneous casters can't cast sanctified spells.

I think I like the "casts from their spell list spontaneously, but can use slots in the morning to prepare sanctified spells if they so desire" idea.

[Cog]

...since I am not sure they have anything that imposes a save...
I'd find it really funny if Healers didn't get the Cure X line.

[Drachasor]

I'd find it really funny if Healers didn't get the Cure X line.

Ahh right, they only need that against undead. Pretty lame.

[Tsuzurao]

Right, but I think the Healer should also be able to spontaneously be able to heal blindness and the like. So one way or another they need to be able to spontaneously cast pretty much any Conjuration (Healing) spell.

... Healers get several affliction-curing spells as 1/day Supernatural class abilities (the "Cleanse X" series, with X being Paralysis, Disease, Fear, Poison, Blindness and Petrification, as well as Cleanse Spirit [a no-XP-cost Greater Restoration]). If you need more castings, prepare them.

And if you desperately end up needing 'Cure' spells, you can grab 'Spontaneous Healer' (spontaneously convert your spells into 'Cure'-type spells like a Cleric does) as early as 1st level.


Hm, could someone check when the Miniatures Handbook came out compared to several of the books that gave Clerics their even bigger boosts (like Complete Divine)?



Also, part of the mechanics of Sanctified Spells is that they aren't supposed to be on specific base class lists - they're just specially available to Good-aligned prepared casters (spontaneous casters have to go through prestige classes to earn access).

[deuxhero]

...huh. I hadn't realized spontaneous casters can't cast sanctified spells.

I think I like the "casts from their spell list spontaneously, but can use slots in the morning to prepare sanctified spells if they so desire" idea.

More cleanly, just let them have them on their list if they would qualify to use them.

[Drachasor]

... Healers get several affliction-curing spells as 1/day Supernatural class abilities (the "Cleanse X" series, with X being Paralysis, Disease, Fear, Poison, Blindness and Petrification, as well as Cleanse Spirit [a no-XP-cost Greater Restoration]). If you need more castings, prepare them.

Those are generally what we refer to as crappy class abilities. Best to just remove them since they are duplicated by spells the healer already has. Then actually give the Healer GOOD class abilities.

[sreservoir]

things would be nicer if all spontaneous caster had the equivalent of arcane preparation. although I tend to care more about the effect on metamagic than sanctified spells.

[Psyren]

...huh. I hadn't realized spontaneous casters can't cast sanctified spells.

The Exalted Arcanist PrC (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031004b) is one way they can do it. Or you can theurge with a prepared caster of some kind. Interestingly enough, Divine Crusader, despite being Charisma-based, is a prepared caster (and can get 9th-level spells in 9 levels) so theurging with that is a great way to get all the Sanctified spells without giving up too much spontaneous progression.


Clone is more flavor than anything else (same with Awaken and such, that's just biology-themed seasoning in the list). Fits well enough.

No, no, I'm sorry but I can't agree. When I picture a healer, I don't picture some mad scientist in a lab cultivating empty bodies. And awakening trees and animals will likely make them suffer more (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_Algernon), not less, which is entirely against the healer mythos.


Contingency? How does that not fit?

Simple - Contingency applies to the healer herself, not her patients, and that's not what the class is about. Healers are meant to care about their companions to the point of self-sacrifice, not layering themselves with protections. This philosophy even carries through to their lack of armor and shield proficiencies.


All I am saying is that you either go full-tilt on them being awesome healers and healing gods, or you have to go with giving them a lot of non-healer stuff for flexibility. Might as well just let them Gestalt any T4 or T5 at that point (adds a ton of variety to what a healer is).

You can up their versatility without giving them arcane moves. Protection spells and ways to buff their animal companion are a good start. But not just throwing everything "biological" in the book at them.

Interesting thought with the gestalt idea. I remember a character in one of the Tenchu games who was a skilled doctor by day and a monk/ninja assassin by night, using his knowledge of the human body and acupuncture to be extremely lethal. Not very fitting with the peaceful divine caster flavor perhaps, but it tickled me to remember it.



Hm, could someone check when the Miniatures Handbook came out compared to several of the books that gave Clerics their even bigger boosts (like Complete Divine)?

Long before. In fact, Miniature's Handbook was I believe the first 3.5 supplement.

[sreservoir]

hm, does divine crusader get all the sanctified spells? because that would help its spell list quite a bit.

[Drachasor]

No, no, I'm sorry but I can't agree. When I picture a healer, I don't picture some mad scientist in a lab cultivating empty bodies. And awakening trees and animals will likely make them suffer more (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_Algernon), not less, which is entirely against the healer mythos.

Well, if there was advanced learning, then ideally such things would be available there. That said, I think it can fit well enough into a healer, but it isn't a big issue. Like I said, it was more a flavor idea than anything, and certainly doesn't significantly affect stuff by being there.

Btw, Flowers for Algernon is fiction.

You know, feel free to ignore all this. I just thought it was interesting flavor, but it doesn't really matter. I don't want to argue about it. Really half the point was "you need to give them COOL stuff", since everyone was like "maybe with one or two small changes it will be T3"...when that philosophy just won't work.


Simple - Contingency applies to the healer herself, not her patients, and that's not what the class is about. Healers are meant to care about their companions to the point of self-sacrifice, not layering themselves with protections. This philosophy even carries through to their lack of armor and shield proficiencies.

First, a dead healer can't heal anyone. It's not really unfitting. Their philosophy shouldn't be used to make them act stupid or have the class be designed in a stupid manner. (My initial inspiration here was Tsunade from Naruto for what it is worth, who basically has a Contigency'd Heal spell on herself and it is for for this reason).

Second, I admit the last time I used Contingency was probably Baldur's Gate 2 a couple years ago. I forgot the 3.X version requires the spell affect you. Hmm, what's the general thought of spells that affect yourself AND others? Seems like Mass healing spells fit under Contingency's guidelines as long as you are a target of the contingency. It doesn't say anywhere that the range must be person or give any similar restrictions. (I tried doing some web searches and got nothing on contingencing spells with multiple targets or even taking people with you if you contingency a teleport spell on yourself).

Third, it wouldn't be hard to make up a very similar spell that did work directly on others. It's more the IDEA than an actual existing spell that's important.


You can up their versatility without giving them arcane moves. Protection spells and ways to buff their animal companion are a good start. But not just throwing everything "biological" in the book at them.

First, spells aren't inherently arcane or divine. The class that uses them decides that. Cure Light Wounds isn't a "divine move", it's just a spell, that's divine for some (Clerics) and arcane for others (like the Bard). So we're not giving them "arcane moves", we're giving the Healer spells that make them better at healing and related stuff.

Personally I find biology-themed spells to generally make more thematic sense then "just give them a bunch of random protection spells." Some protection spells make sense, mind you, like Death Ward, but a lot of others don't work so well, imho. I guess it depends on whether you want to lean more "super divine guy" or "healer, master of biology". Both are equally appropriate. However, seems like the latter is more unique given the Cleric, Favored Soul, etc.

And I wasn't suggesting tossing everything biological at them, but rather a smattering of such spells to round out their list. Then make them a spontaneous caster like the Beguiler or Dread Necromancer. Basically it would be a way to cover the Healer's utility magic in a flavorful and appropriate way, imho, without giving them a bunch of directly aggressive combat capability.

It just seemed more interesting than yet another "I glow bright with divine power" guy.


Interesting thought with the gestalt idea. I remember a character in one of the Tenchu games who was a skilled doctor by day and a monk/ninja assassin by night, using his knowledge of the human body and acupuncture to be extremely lethal. Not very fitting with the peaceful divine caster flavor perhaps, but it tickled me to remember it.

It's one way to go, though I'd still make them a spontaneous caster (just not muck with their spell list beyond that). You get a lot of interesting archetypes right off the bat. A "Dr. McNinja" is within reach.

[Psyren]

hm, does divine crusader get all the sanctified spells? because that would help its spell list quite a bit.

Yes, all prepared casters have access to the entire list of Sanctified spells. What's more, evil Divine Crusaders have access to Corrupt spells as well. (Though if you're going to be evil, Ur-Priest is a way better choice.)

[ericgrau]

I think most people don't want to play the healer anyway, whether in D&D or WoW. I like the idea of having a beater who can also heal. That said, if you really want a focused healer the way to make it worth it is for healing to keep up with damage. Allow reach spell for free and/or boost the healing output. For example you could make a healer class with +2 caster level, cure spells one level lower, heal unchanged (it's already good), fix-it-spells (remove X, restoration, etc.) on the same level as cleric, and doesn't get most other cleric spells.

[T.G. Oskar]

This one? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133118) I was hoping to fiddle with the healer to make it more effective in maybe one or two ways, not completely revamp it from start to finish. However, that may have some good ideas I can gank, so thanks.

Hey, he had the Advanced Learning idea, too. Except maybe that's not so hot if I give them a domain, too. Too many ways to get extra spells on their list becomes redundant.

That spell list goes too far beyond healing/light buffing. I don't want to make a mini-cleric, I want to make a healbot.

Part of the reason why it's a retool is mostly because healing alone does nothing. Temporary hit points do more to healing than actual healing because they actually mitigate damage; however, that's not healing, but buffing (if you have full HP, that is).

Though, I find it odd that you consider it a "mini-cleric". It has no heavy armor proficiency, no domains, no turn undead, no true offensive spells...just healing and buffing. If buffing seems to be a trouble, allow me to rebuke with how wizards also get buffing spells (in fact, they get Haste, which is a superb buff, plus Resist Energy which is also another superb buff, amongst others). What few "offensive" spells they get are essentially limited to non-lethal damaging spells and enchantments, which fit quite well with the "no more harming" line of thought.

It goes with defining what is a cleric, anyways. If you think the cleric is meant to be a healbot, then there's no need for a healer; if what you think of a cleric is a wielder of divine magics, then the retooled Healer is only 80% of that. I feel that adding domains and ways to get Turn Undead more than makes it a mini-cleric, rather than a class with a unique feel. In fact, the retooled Healer is basically a Warmage that heals (Healer's Blessing as the equivalent for Warmage Edge, for example). That and Boundless Healing do more for healing spells than anything else because they deal with some of the problems with healing itself (such as lessening damage mitigation, or healing at range).

I can understand it seems intimidating, but the retooled Healer is no "mini-Cleric", that's for sure. I went all the way to prevent that, as the Cleric could work much better just by being a partial healer, solid buffer, and frontliner. You're more than welcome in making a "fix" to the actual Healer, but I wouldn't go with domains and alternatives to positive energy channeling (unless it's a superpowered Lay on Hands), which I find is more of a "mini-cleric". One thing, though; they need buffing. Check Combat Medic on Heroes of Battle for a superb example of how a healer could work its healing efficiently, and Complete Champion for the Imbued Healing feats (if you get access to a domain, that is).

[faceroll]

I think most people don't want to play the healer anyway, whether in D&D or WoW. I like the idea of having a beater who can also heal. That said, if you really want a focused healer the way to make it worth it is for healing to keep up with damage. Allow reach spell for free and/or boost the healing output. For example you could make a healer class with +2 caster level, cure spells one level lower, heal unchanged (it's already good), fix-it-spells (remove X, restoration, etc.) on the same level as cleric, and doesn't get most other cleric spells.

Some people like playing the healer role. I don't think every class should appeal to every person forever. If you think that should be the case, then DnD probably isn't for you. If you don't want to play a healer, then maybe you should look elsewhere than the class called Healer, yeah?

It'd be cool to get healer up to this level of power (warning: strong language):
http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/217534009_hZ5oD-L-2.jpg

[Dsurion]

I haven't looked over the Healer's spell list too much, but would it be too much to allow for Cure X spells to add temporary hit points on top of a person at full health if they don't currently have any temp hit points on them?

I also think that Healers should have immunities to most of the effects they have the class ability to heal, possibly at the level they gain said class abilities.

And possibly some sort of aura/ability to make people standing directly next to the Healer unable to die for X rounds or something.

I'm just throwing ideas out, I don't know how good or bad any of this stuff is. I was more aiming at the cool factor as I'm not that experienced with 3.5.

[Psyren]

I think most people don't want to play the healer anyway, whether in D&D or WoW.

Dedicated heals has always been my favorite role in a group setting. I was the guy in Diablo 2 firing Holy Bolts at everyone with Prayer up, or the guy that gimped his own dps to keep Salvation on everyone else in Hell diff. And of course, Priest was my first class in WoW (though I think Shaman eventually replaced it as my favorite.) I never got to play EQ but I'm sure I'd have gone heals there too.

The role is simply not as effective in D&D. Except if you're a vitalist. Have I mentioned how much I love that class :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

The role is simply not as effective in D&D. Except if you're a vitalist. Have I mentioned how much I love that class :smalltongue:

Hm? Vitalist? Where's that from?

[Psyren]

Hm? Vitalist? Where's that from?

Psionics Expanded - think of it as the APG for Psionics Unleashed. It's not up on the PFSRD yet but I have early access to the serialized releases due to pre-ordering.

It's a Wis-based manifester with lowish powers known (same as Wilder) but can redistribute hit points among party members/cure their status effects very easily, and at higher levels can do this from another continent or even another plane. Great for a high-level campaign where an NPC Vitalist keeps tabs on the party while they infiltrate Baator or something.

[Malimar]

Domains are for more than just extra spells.

True. But if they get a domain, then they do get extra spells from it, in addition to the domain power. And I don't want more than one source of extra spells.


Though, I find it odd that you consider it a "mini-cleric". It has no heavy armor proficiency, no domains, no turn undead, no true offensive spells...just healing and buffing. If buffing seems to be a trouble, allow me to rebuke with how wizards also get buffing spells (in fact, they get Haste, which is a superb buff, plus Resist Energy which is also another superb buff, amongst others). What few "offensive" spells they get are essentially limited to non-lethal damaging spells and enchantments, which fit quite well with the "no more harming" line of thought.

It goes with defining what is a cleric, anyways. If you think the cleric is meant to be a healbot, then there's no need for a healer; if what you think of a cleric is a wielder of divine magics, then the retooled Healer is only 80% of that. I feel that adding domains and ways to get Turn Undead more than makes it a mini-cleric, rather than a class with a unique feel. In fact, the retooled Healer is basically a Warmage that heals (Healer's Blessing as the equivalent for Warmage Edge, for example). That and Boundless Healing do more for healing spells than anything else because they deal with some of the problems with healing itself (such as lessening damage mitigation, or healing at range).

Clerics, in my mind, are "can cast any spell they want and thereby break everything forever", which seemed, at first glance, like your spell list was getting towards.

I'm not sure why I thought that; I didn't inspect it all that carefully, and it looks like you came up with something only very slightly broader than what I wound up coming up with. And your Advanced Learning for Transmutation spells isn't as bad as I thought at first, because it's limited to cleric or druid and all the worst Transmutation spells are sor/wiz.


I can understand it seems intimidating, but the retooled Healer is no "mini-Cleric", that's for sure. I went all the way to prevent that, as the Cleric could work much better just by being a partial healer, solid buffer, and frontliner. You're more than welcome in making a "fix" to the actual Healer, but I wouldn't go with domains and alternatives to positive energy channeling (unless it's a superpowered Lay on Hands), which I find is more of a "mini-cleric". One thing, though; they need buffing. Check Combat Medic on Heroes of Battle for a superb example of how a healer could work its healing efficiently, and Complete Champion for the Imbued Healing feats (if you get access to a domain, that is).

Basically what I'm trying to do, for my own purposes, is find the one or two areas the published class is most deficient, and patch them. I don't generally like to make or allow completely homebrewed classes; I'm just prejudiced that way. If I did allow completely homebrewed classes, I would just use yours, it's good.

[LaughingRogue]

Well as has been said and I completely agree with ---> making the Healer a better version of the existing Healer class isn't going to do anything at all since they need to do something besides heal to go up in teir.

Skills: they are good already , let's make them better : 6 + int

Saves: they are already good.

Healing: They need to be able to heal at range better than they already do.

Companion: if they are going to have a companion, it at least needs to be decent and if it's going to be a unicorn --- were going to have to make its specific Unicorn better than the typical unicorn and I believe it should get it earlier than it already does.

The healer should also gain GOOD synergistic abilities with the unicorn over time.

Advanced Learning : Every 4 levels of Healer you can select a divine spell and add it to your spell list, the spell cannot be higher than the highest level spell you can cast.

[Coidzor]

True. But if they get a domain, then they do get extra spells from it, in addition to the domain power. And I don't want more than one source of extra spells.

Then you run into the situation where you're either axing the domain power you want to give them (and the flexibility to enter things that require domains) or giving them too many domain powers in order to expand their spell list.

And there's no apparent impetus for a decision to either expand the healer's base spell list or give them domains.

[Malimar]

Then you run into the situation where you're either axing the domain power you want to give them (and the flexibility to enter things that require domains) or giving them too many domain powers in order to expand their spell list.

And there's no apparent impetus for a decision to either expand the healer's base spell list or give them domains.

To a.) qualify for healing-related prestige classes, which are usually intended for clerics and b.) give them some more options and flexibility, because healing on its own kind of sucks (as countless people in this thread have pointed out). Though (b) is misguided, because we're making a healer, not a mini-cleric.

I could just say "Treat the Healer as though she has the Healing domain for the purpose of qualifying for feats and prestige classes."

[Drachasor]

Basically what I'm trying to do, for my own purposes, is find the one or two areas the published class is most deficient, and patch them. I don't generally like to make or allow completely homebrewed classes; I'm just prejudiced that way. If I did allow completely homebrewed classes, I would just use yours, it's good.

You'll have to decide if sticking to this philosophy or making them tier 3 is more important to you. You simply can't have both.

Late Edit: Btw, you don't WANT them qualifying for Healer PrCs. This is a class focused on healing, so it shouldn't be going into PrCs that are focused on the same thing, imho. It's class abilities should cover all of that. Trying to make PrCs focused on doing the same thing this class does look attractive is going to further limit your design.

[stack]

For class features to toss in to avoid dead levels, anything here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracle-mysteries/life)would be thematic. Life oracles can basically be made into a healer class as-is, just back-converting to 3.5.

Included are powers similar to those suggested previously, like uncapped level bonuses to heal spells and healing above full hp.

[Coidzor]

To a.) qualify for healing-related prestige classes, which are usually intended for clerics and b.) give them some more options and flexibility, because healing on its own kind of sucks (as countless people in this thread have pointed out). Though (b) is misguided, because we're making a healer, not a mini-cleric.

No, certain expressions of B might be misguided, but the class does need something it can do before it starts playing bandaid box rather than twiddling its thumbs.

[Person_Man]

I have an NPC Healer class that I've been using on and off for a while now. I haven't bothered posting it because it's basically an NPC class, and the Healer isn't very popular. But since we're on the topic, I might as well.

The key to this fix is that you gain a Celestial Companion at level 1, and not level 8. Thus you always have "something to do" because you basically have a second Tier 5ish melee character to control. I also did my best to give him class abilities that don't duplicate spells, and to make them as dirt simple as possible.


The Healer

d8 hit die, 4 Skill points per level, normal Healer Skills plus Ride, all simple weapons, light and medium armor.

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special
1st | + 0 | + 2 | + 2 | + 2 | Spells, Aura, Celestial Companion
2nd | + 1 | + 3 | + 3 | + 3 | Skill Focus (Heal), Field Healer
3rd | + 1 | + 3 | + 3 | + 3 | Combat Medic
4th | + 2 | + 4 | + 4 | + 4 | Turn Undead
5th | + 2 | + 4 | + 4 | + 4 | Healing Hands
6th | + 3 | + 5 | + 5 | + 5 | Transcendent Health
7th | + 3 | + 5 | + 5 | + 5 | Warded Healing
8th | + 4 | + 6 | + 6 | + 6 | Aura of Courage
9th | + 4 | + 6 | + 6 | + 6 | Overflowing Energy
10th | + 5 | + 7 | + 7 | + 7 | Evasion
11th | + 5 | + 7 | + 7 | + 7 | Cleanse Spirit
12th | + 6 | + 8 | + 8 | + 8 | Reach Healing
13th | + 6 | + 8 | + 8 | + 8 | Divine Link
14th | + 7 | + 9 | + 9 | + 9 | Transfer Suffering
15th | + 7 | + 9 | + 9 | + 9 | Negative Energy Immunity
16th | + 8 | + 10 | + 10 | + 10 | New Limb
17th | + 8 | + 10 | + 10 | + 10 | Maximized Healing
18th | + 9 | + 11 | + 11 | + 11 | Plane Walker
19th | + 9 | + 11 | + 11 | + 11 | Quickened Healing
20th | + 10 | + 12 | + 12 | + 12 | New Life
[/table]

Class Abilities

Spells: Spontaneous Charisma based casting. The spell list is anything I think that's appropriate. (Which works fine for an NPC, but for a player I'd probably try to keep it to 8-10ish spells per level, a good mix of healing and protection magic, and include some sanctified magic from BoED).

Aura: As per the Cleric class ability.

Celestial Companion (Ex): You gain an Animal Companion, as per the Druid class ability. In addition, your Animal Companion possesses the Celestial template. If you have or later gain an Animal Companion or Special Mount from another class or prestige class, you may sacrifice that ability to have levels of that class or prestige class stack with levels of Healer to determine the power/hit dice of your Celestial Companion. In addition to the normal options for Animal Companions, your Celestial Companion may also be a Unicorn, Lammasu, etc, with appropriate adjustments to your effective Druid level for the bonuses.

Skill Focus (Heal): You gain this as a bonus feat. If you already posses this feat, you may choose another feat that you qualify for in it's place.

Field Healer (Ex): You may always Take 10 when using the Heal Skill, even when threatened or rushed. You may use the Heal Skill as a Move Action (instead of a Standard Action) to provide first aid, treat a wound, or treat poison.

Combat Medic (Ex): You never provoke an attack of opportunity when using the Heal Skill or casting a Conjuration (Healing) spell.

Turn Undead (Su): As per the Cleric class ability.

Healing Hands (Su): Whenever a healer casts a spell that cures hit point damage, she adds her Charisma modifier to the amount of damage healed.

Transcendent Health (Su): You gain immunity to disease, poison, sickened, and nauseated effects.

Warded Healing (Su): Any ally effected by a Conjuration (Healing) spell that you cast (including you and your Celestial Companion when applicable) is also effected as if you had cast Sanctuary on them.

Aura of Courage (Su): As per the Paladin class ability. If you already have or later gain an Aura of Courage from another class, the bonus against Fear effects for your allies stacks from both abilities.

Overflowing Energy (Su): Whenever a healer casts a spell that cures hit point damage above the target's normal maximum hit points, the target gains temporary hit points equal to the excess for a number of rounds equal to the healer's caster level. For example, if the target is currently at 10 hit points, has a maximum normal hit point total of 20, and your heal them for 15 points of damage, they gain 5 temporary hit points. Temporary hit points from multiple sources overlap, and do not stack.

Evasion (Ex): As per the Rogue ability, except that it also functions in medium armor.

Transfer Suffering (Sp): If you or your Celestial Companion is damaged by an attack which deals hit point damage (including spells, psionics, etc), within 1 round of that attack you may take a Standard Action to heal the damage caused by that attack, and deal the same amount of damage that you healed to the enemy who caused the damage. The damage against your enemy is of the same type of the attack which damaged you. For example, if an enemy cast Polar Ray against you and dealt 30 points of damage against you, within one round you could take a Standard Action to heal 30 points of damage, and deal 30 points of Cold damage to the enemy who cast Polar Ray. If an enemy makes multiple attacks against you in a given round (such as multiple melee attacks) this ability only functions on one attack of your choice. This ability does not transfer secondary effects of attacks, such as being knocked Prone, Fear, Stun, etc. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Charisma bonus.

Reach Healing (Su): You gain Reach Spell as a bonus feat. You you already have this feat, you may choose another metamagic feat that you qualify for in it's place. In addition, you may apply Reach Spell to any Conjuration (Healing) spell that you cast without modifying the spell level or casting time of the spell.

Divine Link (Su): Your ability to Share Spells with your Celestial Companion is increased to 100 feet.

Cleanse Spirit (Su): You may cast Greater Restoration as a Standard Action (as opposed to 10 minutes), and doing so does not require any XP cost.

Negative Energy Immunity (Su): You and your Celestial Companion gain immunity to all Negative Energy effects, and are not harmed by Negative Energy.

New Limb (Sp): You may cast Regenerate as a Standard Action instead of 3 full rounds.

Maximized Healing (Su): You gain Maximize Spell as a bonus feat. If you already have this feat, you may choose any other metamagic bonus feat that you qualify for in it's place. In addition, you may apply Maximize Spell to any Conjuration (Healing) spell that you cast without modifying the spell level or casting time of the spell.

Plane Walker (Su): You, your Celestial Companion, and all allies within 100 feet of you are immune to the negative effects of being on the Positive Material Plane. (You do not explode from excess hit points). In addition, you never require a material component in order to cast Plane Shift when traveling to the Positive Material Plane or back to the Prime Material Plane. (I put Plane Shift on the Healer's 5th level spell list).

Quickened Healing (Su): You gain Quicken Spell as a bonus feat. If you already have this feat, you may choose any other metamagic bonus feat that you qualify for in it's place. In addition, you may apply Quicken Spell to any Conjuration (Healing) spell that you cast without modifying the spell level or casting time of the spell. You may also Quicken Greater Restoration and Regenerate (casting them as Swift Actions), without modifying their spell level.

New Life (Su): Once every seven days you may ignore the XP cost for casting True Resurrection. If you die and have not cast True Resurrection within the past 7 days, then 10 minutes later you rise from the dead as if you had cast True Resurrection on yourself. This expends your "free" True Resurrection for the next 7 days. Thus if you are slain again within that time period, you do not rise again.