Z scrubbed out?

[Sunken Valley]

In this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html) the IFFC are consulting a chart of the linear guild. In this chart Z'zdriti (the drow transmuter), is clearly scribbled out, as are Hilgya and Yikyik. Obviously Z is a member of the LG now. The IFCC acknowledge this given Z's choice of familiar. So why was he scribbled out by them before? From a fourth wall viewpoint, it was done to throw the readers off the scent (or Rich had not decided to bring Z back yet). But what story reason would he have to be scribbled out? On another note, Hilgya is scribbled out as well and, were she to return (I'm betting strong money she'll be back before this comic is over) this would be unusual as well. What is the explanation for this? What does the playground think?

[Holy_Knight]

Perhaps the IFCC didn't know that Zz'Dtri would ever return. So, they have a chart displaying their willing pawn, along with her adventuring companions who are thus potentially their unwilling pawns, and whenever one was eliminated, they crossed them off. So, the strip in question would take place before Z manages to resolve his legal troubles and rejoin the Linear Guild, which is why the IFCC wouldn't consider him an active pawn at that point.

[Roland Itiative]

The IFCC probably scrubbed him (is Z a confirmed male, seeing how he was designed after Drizzt?) out because he was still bound by his legal issues, and unlikely to ever appear again in the story. He was still loyal to the LG, but he was useless to the IFCC.

[King of Nowhere]

I disagree, that strip happened only a week or two before Zzd'tri showed up, and Nale said they've been hiding in the empire of blood for months. So, Zzd'tri already worked for the guild at the time.
It is possible that the ifcc wasn't just informed.
Or maybe they share Xykon's genre savyness (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0023.html) (they could do a cutaway to us at any moment).
Or maybe they scrubbed Z in the poster before he reappeared, and never bothered to change the poster after he showed up again.

Ok, I'm sure the real reason is that if Rich didn't scrub out Z in that panel, everyone would have figured out immediately what followed, starting from the green scrying sensor. I'm just looking for some reasonable excuse. Shouldn't be too hard.

[Red XIV]

The fiends are aware that they're in a webcomic, so they concealed information from the readers. There, problem solved.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Or the X was just made with permanent marker way back when Z got in trouble to begin with.

[NerfTW]

The IFCC probably scrubbed him (is Z a confirmed male, seeing how he was designed after Drizzt?) out because he was still bound by his legal issues, and unlikely to ever appear again in the story.

There weren't really any legal issues with Z. That was a joke in the comic. There was no real world legal issue with bringing Z back at any point in the story. The reason he's back now is because its showing the end result of V's obsession, an overconfident wizard unprepared for anything but precisely one situation.

[ORione]

There weren't really any legal issues with Z. That was a joke in the comic. There was no real world legal issue with bringing Z back at any point in the story. The reason he's back now is because its showing the end result of V's obsession, an overconfident wizard unprepared for anything but precisely one situation.

Not real world legal issues, but I think Zz'dtri had to prove to the lawyers that he was actually a parody.

[SadisticFishing]

This is actually a good point, and can pretty much be chalked up to "bad writing".

Concealing something from the audience is fine, but misrepresenting the world on purpose is awkward, and poorly done.

I mean, he more than makes up for it everywhere else, but even the Giant is allowed to make mistakes.

[John Cribati]

Concealing something from the audience is fine, but misrepresenting the world on purpose is awkward, and poorly done.

I disagree. Because of that misrepresentation, Z reveal was... a reveal, which was unexpected and generally well-received. It's like in Harry Potter where Snape killed Dumbledore and everyone thought he was the bad guy, until it was shown that Snape and Dumbledore had it planned out for months. The part where Snape killed Dumbledore had to be misrepresented, otherwise, the twist doesn't have the same appeal.

[SowZ]

I disagree. Because of that misrepresentation, Z reveal was... a reveal, which was unexpected and generally well-received. It's like in Harry Potter where Snape killed Dumbledore and everyone thought he was the bad guy, until it was shown that Snape and Dumbledore had it planned out for months. The part where Snape killed Dumbledore had to be misrepresented, otherwise, the twist doesn't have the same appeal.

I think his point is more about how it is not fair for an author to put something in a work that openly denies a particular event about to happen just to make it impossible for a reader to predict it. I don't hear him saying that reveals and misdirection in themselves are bad. I am not saying that is what happened here, but I think that is the point.

It is possible there is a perfectly reasonable in comic justification for it that the comic won't explain because it is so minor. Maybe the rest of the LG was hiding out in the Empire and Z just recently regrouped with them because he was off leveling to tailor his build or whatever.

[Oppolo]

I disagree. Because of that misrepresentation, Z reveal was... a reveal, which was unexpected and generally well-received. It's like in Harry Potter where [stuff]. The part where [spoilers from something released 6 years ago] had to be misrepresented, otherwise, the twist doesn't have the same appeal.

You're missing the point, the argument is that characters acted stupidly to hide something from the readers. The characters in your Harry Potter example never acted stupidly, we just weren't shown all of their actions.

This is bad because the IFCC seem to be portrayed as people who are quite up to date. There doesn't seem to be a good reason why they're not up to date.

In reality, it's probably something like the earlier suggestion that it was done in permanent marker. The fact that Leeky and Pompeii aren't drawn in and scribbled out shows that they never kept it up-to-date.

[SadisticFishing]

Yeah, that was indeed my point. Authors are meant to keep things secret from us - but never, ever should they lie to us. Characters can lie, circumstances can lie, but the reality shouldn't.

[Sunken Valley]

The fact that Leeky and Pompeii aren't drawn in and scribbled out shows that they never kept it up-to-date.

Don't forget Yokyok! But the reason they are not in is because the IFCC picked them as pawns after they had left the stage. Remember they did not know about the gate until after the LG were beaten at Cliffport. Then they just used the picture of the LG from DCF and scrubbed out everyone but the main players. Maybe the scribbling is also to do with usefulness to the IFCC. Sabine is not scribbled (because she is the IFCC's mole) neither are Nale and Thog (because they are probably both dumb enough to be persuaded by Sabine). Z is scrubbed out because all he wants to do is kill V (the IFCC's unwitting mole in OOTS) That's why they have Quarr keeping tabs on him. If they have Hilgya back on the team as well she would have little usefulness as she would be focused on Sir Thundershield. Yikyik..yeah.

[VanBuren]

I disagree, that strip happened only a week or two before Zzd'tri showed up, and Nale said they've been hiding in the empire of blood for months. So, Zzd'tri already worked for the guild at the time.
It is possible that the ifcc wasn't just informed.
Or maybe they share Xykon's genre savyness (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0023.html) (they could do a cutaway to us at any moment).
Or maybe they scrubbed Z in the poster before he reappeared, and never bothered to change the poster after he showed up again.

Ok, I'm sure the real reason is that if Rich didn't scrub out Z in that panel, everyone would have figured out immediately what followed, starting from the green scrying sensor. I'm just looking for some reasonable excuse. Shouldn't be too hard.

Here's a thought: Z wasn't with the LG when they got there. Sometime between the conversation the IFCC had and his reveal, Nale and Sabine somehow bumped into Z and he rejoined them.

[Gift Jeraff]

Zz'dtri claims he never stopped working for Nale. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0789.html) Yet Z also needed a replacement. So my guess is that Zz'dtri was busy fighting in court until about two in-comic weeks ago, and then got a better lawyer. As was mentioned back in #789's discussion thread, the IFCC would have access to a lot of lawyers. :smallamused:

Either that or permanent marker.

[SowZ]

Zz'dtri claims he never stopped working for Nale. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0789.html) Yet Z also needed a replacement. So my guess is that Zz'dtri was busy fighting in court until about two in-comic weeks ago, and then got a better lawyer. As was mentioned back in #789's discussion thread, the IFCC would have access to a lot of lawyers. :smallamused:

Either that or permanent marker.

I doubt he has been in trial so many months. I don't think he counted as Vs personal rival up to that point seeing as they only met once, so to stay even with V he would have to have been leveling during that time to keep up with V.

[FujinAkari]

The very strip itself specifies that the IFCC's pawns are total morons and easily manipulatable... not exactly a description which fits Z. This may very well be why they sent Qarr to him, but -at the time- Z was not considered under the IFCC's sway, and it is very clear Z has his own agenda.

[SowZ]

The very strip itself specifies that the IFCC's pawns are total morons and easily manipulatable... not exactly a description which fits Z. This may very well be why they sent Qarr to him, but -at the time- Z was not considered under the IFCC's sway, and it is very clear Z has his own agenda.

Maybe Z is one of the nine players involved, and knows a lot more about the gates then everyone thinks? With V out of the way, I think Z could take the rest of the Order single handed if he prepared for it. Getting rid of V may be part of his master plan. Hmm? HHHMMMM!?!?!

[TheMac04]

Maybe Z is one of the nine players involved, and knows a lot more about the gates then everyone thinks? With V out of the way, I think Z could take the rest of the Order single handed if he prepared for it. Getting rid of V may be part of his master plan. Hmm? HHHMMMM!?!?!

If it means more appearances from Z, I'm all for it!

[hoff]

Well I think that IFCC payed off defense lawyers for Z in order to get him to work for them.

[Sunken Valley]

The very strip itself specifies that the IFCC's pawns are total morons and easily manipulatable... not exactly a description which fits Z. This may very well be why they sent Qarr to him, but -at the time- Z was not considered under the IFCC's sway, and it is very clear Z has his own agenda.

I think that might be right too. I said something about it earlier.

[Ancalagon]

In this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html) the IFFC are consulting a chart of the linear guild. In this chart Z'zdriti (the drow transmuter), is clearly scribbled out

He probably made a thread on this forum asking when the next comic will show up and got {scrubbed} by someone. ;)

[Gift Jeraff]

Nale trying to recruit a new fighter (or something) in combination with Thog being in the arena for months leads me to believe that Thog is no longer an official Linear Guilder. Yet Zz'dtri, who claims to have "never stopped" working for Nale, is scrubbed out and Thog isn't. Which makes me think that being scrubbed out doesn't mean "no longer part of the Linear Guild," but rather "does not play an important role/is replaceable." Now as for what role Thog could possibly play besides comic relief, my guess would be destroying a Gate or something along those lines. He's super strong and does what other people tell him to do. Either that or they were paying attention exclusively to V and Xykon for the past several months.

Vaguely on-topic, but I didn't want to make a whole new thread just for that.

[FujinAkari]

Well Qarr deliberately misleading Z about the specifics of his Planar Shift -certainly- reinforces the idea that Z isn't someone the IFCC are actually working with.

Thus he is scrubbed out because they don't see him as an ally, or even an associate.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Well Qarr deliberately misleading Z about the specifics of his Planar Shift -certainly- reinforces the idea that Z isn't someone the IFCC are actually working with.

Thus he is scrubbed out because they don't see him as an ally, or even an associate.
Neither Nale nor Thog are people that he IFCC are workoing with, either. They are only working with Sabine. The rest of the guild are simply pawns they are manipulating.

[Ancalagon]

They are only working with Sabine. The rest of the guild are simply pawns they are manipulating.

I'm not sure if we can exclude Sabine as "Pawn". Given how they commented on the LG in the picture it seems likely they also consider her a moron. We have no proof or even hint Sabine actually knows enough to be more than that (the pawn, not the moron).

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I'm not sure if we can exclude Sabine as "Pawn". Given how they commented on the LG in the picture it seems likely they also consider her a moron. We have no proof or even hint Sabine actually knows enough to be more than that (the pawn, not the moron).
Oh, yes, Sabine is a pawn as well. But she is also an employee of the IFCC fully aware of their goals as stated in whatever training manual she may have received and is actively collaborating with them. That they may have motives beyond those she knows and may be manipulating her into tasks outside of her official job description does not change that. So she is a step above “just a pawn;” she’s also on the payroll. :smallwink:

[Ancalagon]

... and she's utterly stupid for chosing Nale over them in such a blatant way.

If she's not treading very carefully here, she'll end up as smoke (and she knows it). Why she does not set different priorities here is a bit strange. Sure, convincing Nale that staying silent might be a blow to one of Nale's plans, but he'll survive. Which is not going to be the case if he (due to her) annoys the IFCC.

[Holy_Knight]

... and she's utterly stupid for chosing Nale over them in such a blatant way.

I actually took her line as being somewhat ironic--as in, she's really not behind him all the way, because she's secretly more loyal to the IFCC. Similarly, she could be "behind him all the way" in the sense that she's always ready to backstab him if it comes to that.