Bard Primary Healer

[Tibbaerrohwen]

I'm currently reworking a character from almost a year past. I only got to play him once and now I'm inspired to try and re-work him.
The character was a Dwarven Cleric/Rogue combo. However, my DM and I had a quick conversation about tiers and I'd like to try and make this Dwarf capable of being a primary healer (as he would be with cleric levels) and reliably sneaky and combat worthy (as would be possible with rogue).
I figure bard is a good class for this.
What feats/PrC's would you recommend?
I really like Warchanter, even though I know it doesn't work the best fpr the build; is there a way it can work with the build?

Thanks.

[Malimar]

I'll just leave this here. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871786/A_Players_Guide_to_Healing_(And,_why_you_will_be_J ust_Fine_without_a_Cleric_to_heal))

[Tibbaerrohwen]

I'll just leave this here. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871786/A_Players_Guide_to_Healing_(And,_why_you_will_be_J ust_Fine_without_a_Cleric_to_heal))

Thanks. I am looking to be a healer combatant and this link is helpful.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'm currently reworking a character from almost a year past. I only got to play him once and now I'm inspired to try and re-work him.
The character was a Dwarven Cleric/Rogue combo. However, my DM and I had a quick conversation about tiers and I'd like to try and make this Dwarf capable of being a primary healer (as he would be with cleric levels) and reliably sneaky and combat worthy (as would be possible with rogue).
I figure bard is a good class for this.
What feats/PrC's would you recommend?
I really like Warchanter, even though I know it doesn't work the best fpr the build; is there a way it can work with the build?

Thanks.

Well, your problem is going to be not only raw healing, which is relatively easy to get in most games, but removal of status effects.

What happens when your party gets hit by a curse? What happens if the party gets negative levels? Stunned? Poisoned? Slowed?

You need to remove status effects as much as you need to heal damage.

Fortunately, there *IS* an answer! And you can even do it while going Warchanter!

First off, I will assume from your initial desire to Warchant that you will be focusing on Inspire Courage/DFI optimization. Which is a great way to buff up a party and help them do TONS of bonus damage. So we need to do this on a Bard chassis, while otherwise minimizing resource requirements, since DFI optimization is fairly resource intensive.

Therefore, we shall begin by delving into trading off some less important features for some actually useful ones!

From Complete Mage, Spellbreaker Song is a great way to trade an otherwise worthless class ability (countersong) with an ability to give any caster a 20% ASF chance. While higher-level caster opponents will be able to stay out of your radius of effect, it's a great low-level debuffing tool.

From Complete Champion, we actually get TWO nifty abilities, one of them directly up your alley:

Healing Hymn is not a bad way to boost your healing ability. Granted, it's STILL not nearly as good as being able to cast things like Heal, but it makes your CLW spells almost worth casting.

Hymn of Fortification is also a decent utility song. Basically, it's Protection from Evil. And why is that fun? Because it represses mind-affecting abilities. So if your tank gets Charmed, pop Hymn of Fortification and negate the problem for him!

I'd also strongly consider Bardic Knack over Bardic Knowledge (from PhB II)

Okay, now that we've got that taken care of, and traded off some otherwise worthless features for some decent ones, let's look at removing status effects.

Now, we'd really want Lesser Restoration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/restorationLesser.htm) as a way of removing negative levels and ability penalties/damage. Fortunately, there's a feat for that. Specifically Arcane Disciple (Renewal domain) gives it to you as a 2nd level spell. Which means you can then use wands of Lesser Restoration. Which I highly encourage you to keep on hand.

It also nets you Remove Disease. You can pick up Remove Curse, Break Enchantment, and Neutralize Poison from your own spell list.

So basically, we're looking at Bard10/War Chanter 10.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Well, your problem is going to be not only raw healing, which is relatively easy to get in most games, but removal of status effects.

What happens when your party gets hit by a curse? What happens if the party gets negative levels? Stunned? Poisoned? Slowed?

You need to remove status effects as much as you need to heal damage.

Fortunately, there *IS* an answer! And you can even do it while going Warchanter!

First off, I will assume from your initial desire to Warchant that you will be focusing on Inspire Courage/DFI optimization. Which is a great way to buff up a party and help them do TONS of bonus damage. So we need to do this on a Bard chassis, while otherwise minimizing resource requirements, since DFI optimization is fairly resource intensive.

Therefore, we shall begin by delving into trading off some less important features for some actually useful ones!

From Complete Mage, Spellbreaker Song is a great way to trade an otherwise worthless class ability (countersong) with an ability to give any caster a 20% ASF chance. While higher-level caster opponents will be able to stay out of your radius of effect, it's a great low-level debuffing tool.

From Complete Champion, we actually get TWO nifty abilities, one of them directly up your alley:

Healing Hymn is not a bad way to boost your healing ability. Granted, it's STILL not nearly as good as being able to cast things like Heal, but it makes your CLW spells almost worth casting.

Hymn of Fortification is also a decent utility song. Basically, it's Protection from Evil. And why is that fun? Because it represses mind-affecting abilities. So if your tank gets Charmed, pop Hymn of Fortification and negate the problem for him!

I'd also strongly consider Bardic Knack over Bardic Knowledge (from PhB II)

Okay, now that we've got that taken care of, and traded off some otherwise worthless features for some decent ones, let's look at removing status effects.

Now, we'd really want Lesser Restoration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/restorationLesser.htm) as a way of removing negative levels and ability penalties/damage. Fortunately, there's a feat for that. Specifically Arcane Disciple (Renewal domain) gives it to you as a 2nd level spell. Which means you can then use wands of Lesser Restoration. Which I highly encourage you to keep on hand.

It also nets you Remove Disease. You can pick up Remove Curse, Break Enchantment, and Neutralize Poison from your own spell list.

So basically, we're looking at Bard10/War Chanter 10.

Shneeky, you are amazing. I was beginning to think that my only option would be to turn to a divine casting class (most likely Favoured Soul), but I like this build much more.

Thank you again.

Now I just need to find a Dwarven-flavoured God that is not lawfully aligned with the Renewal domain. Any suggestions?

EDIT: Would it be fair to request that a DM allow a God with the Healing Domain to have Renewal?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Shneeky, you are amazing. I was beginning to think that my only option would be to turn to a divine casting class (most likely Favoured Soul), but I like this build much more.

Thank you again.

Now I just need to find a Dwarven-flavoured God that is not lawfully aligned with the Renewal domain. Any suggestions?

Moradin, being something of the Allfather of the pantheon, might well have access to it, if your GM permits.

Also, don't forget, for your IC/DFI optimization:

Dragontoched (lets you DFI)
DFI (Naturally)
Song of the Heart (might or might not work if you trade off Inspire Competence for Song of Fortification, check with your GM on this)

So there's feats at 1, 3, and 6 for you. Pick up Arcane Disciple at 9.

You may wish a couple of bonus feats, though, since you have to qualify for War Chanter, so as an option:

Bard8/PsyWar2/War Chanter 10.

This nets you:

two bonus feats, for Combat expertise and Weapon Focus as prerequisites
Two 1st level PsyWar powers. May I suggest Expansion and Vigor? If you prefer AC to Temp Hit Points, then Force Screen might also be applicable. If you prefer a bit of DR, then Biofeedback would be the flavor of the day.

You don't get 4th level Bard spells, so you'll need to rely on items for Neutralize Poison, but at least you can use them, since it's on your list.

Make sure, for gear, you pick up a Vest of Legends, and a Harmonizing weapon (Crystal Echoblade, if you can afford it). A Badge of Valor also helps. And make sure a 1st level spell you know is Inspirational Boost.

That way, with Inspirational Boost + Badge + Vest + Heart + MW instrument, you'll have a +7 IC. That's +7d6 (flavor) damage. At level 9.

Actually, you'll need Bard9/PsyWar1/War Chanter 10 for your Vest to really be effective. So your 9th level feat will have to be either Weapon Focus or Combat Expertise.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Moradin, being something of the Allfather of the pantheon, might well have access to it, if your GM permits.

Also, don't forget, for your IC/DFI optimization:

Dragontoched (lets you DFI)
DFI (Naturally)
Song of the Heart (might or might not work if you trade off Inspire Competence for Song of Fortification, check with your GM on this)

So there's feats at 1, 3, and 6 for you. Pick up Arcane Disciple at 9.

You may wish a couple of bonus feats, though, since you have to qualify for War Chanter, so as an option:

Bard8/PsyWar2/War Chanter 10.

This nets you:

two bonus feats, for Combat expertise and Weapon Focus as prerequisites
Two 1st level PsyWar powers. May I suggest Expansion and Vigor? If you prefer AC to Temp Hit Points, then Force Screen might also be applicable. If you prefer a bit of DR, then Biofeedback would be the flavor of the day.

You don't get 4th level Bard spells, so you'll need to rely on items for Neutralize Poison, but at least you can use them, since it's on your list.

Make sure, for gear, you pick up a Vest of Legends, and a Harmonizing weapon (Crystal Echoblade, if you can afford it). A Badge of Valor also helps. And make sure a 1st level spell you know is Inspirational Boost.

That way, with Inspirational Boost + Badge + Vest + Heart + MW instrument, you'll have a +7 IC. That's +7d6 (flavor) damage. At level 9.

Actually, you'll need Bard9/PsyWar1/War Chanter 10 for your Vest to really be effective. So your 9th level feat will have to be either Weapon Focus or Combat Expertise.

This is going to sound excessively newbish, but is DFI really the best option, seeing as so many creatures are resistant/immune to fire?
It can't be Moradin, because he is Lawful. As a bard, and would be warchanter, I cannot be Lawful, but Arcane Disciple requires you be the same alignment as your God.

EDIT: Where is Inspiration Boost from?

[Grendus]

If all else fails, you have UMD as a class skill, and no self respecting magic mart would be caught without scrolls of Cure Blindness, Remove Curse, etc. Shouldn't be too big an issue. Don't forget, unless you can't due to your background a Fireblood Dwarf gets the dragonblood subtype for free (shouldn't be an issue, Dragon Magic states they can be born to any dwarf parents).

As for dwarvish deities with Renewal, try Mya from Races of Stone. Technically, her domains are Good, Healing, and Knowledge, but that's partially because Renewal isn't from RoS, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to add it to her listed domains.

[flumphy]

From RoS:

Mya, NG dwarven goddess of hearth, home, family, and all that jazz. By default, grants good, healing, and knowledge, but many DMs would see renewal as a logical addition to that.



From F&P, if your DM will allow porting FR deities:

Dugmarren Brightmantle, CG dwarven god of knowledge and discovery. Again, he doesn't grant renewal by default, but you could certainly make a case for it.

Sharindlar, CG dwarven version of Sune, basically. A goddess of fertility and healing is suitable for the domain, IMO.

Kossuth, TN elemental god of fire. If you're going for DFI, you might be able to make a case for your character worshipping him, and unlike the others on this list he's actually listed as granting Renwal.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

This is going to sound excessively newbish, but is DFI really the best option, seeing as so many creatures are resistant/immune to fire?
It can't be Moradin, because he is Lawful. As a bard, and would be warchanter, I cannot be Lawful, but Arcane Disciple requires you be the same alignment as your God.

EDIT: Where is Inspiration Boost from?

Dragontouched enables Draconic Heretage to change Fire to Sonic (with War Dragon heretage). So at low levels, Fire is perfectly reasonable. Then, around 12 when opponents start developing resistances/immunities to it, switch it for Sonic damage.

Inspirational Boost is from the Spell Compendium.

[Grendus]

This is going to sound excessively newbish, but is DFI really the best option, seeing as so many creatures are resistant/immune to fire?
It can't be Moradin, because he is Lawful. As a bard, and would be warchanter, I cannot be Lawful, but Arcane Disciple requires you be the same alignment as your God.

EDIT: Where is Inspiration Boost from?

Also don't forget that even if they're immune to fire, you can still use the standard Inspire Courage to add to their regular weapon damage. Not quite as good (though if they're power attacking with a two handed weapon, they're adding a flat 3 to their damage which is almost as good), but since very few creatures are flat out immune to melee damage it's still good. Doesn't help if they're already power attacking for full, but it's much better than nothing.

[Coidzor]

Thanks. I am looking to be a healer combatant and this link is helpful.

You want to heal in combat? Not a winning proposition, that.

[Optimator]

Well, Sublime Chord can get you Limited Wish (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/limitedWish.htm) to cast Heal off the Adept's list. Not many times per day, mind you, and not until level 15 but for emergencies it's pretty sweet. You could also emulate Revenance, Revivify, Panacea, Life's Grace...

[MeeposFire]

Also realize that if you want more you can ask to be able to take the dragonmark of healing feats. These will give you spell like abilities usable several times a day (more feats give you more uses) including such spells like resoration, lesser restoration, heal, and revivify (in the dragonmarked booked). I usually combine this with binder for at will healing but you could do it with bard. You use your spells and wands for healing and your feat given spell like abilities to deal with status effects, bringing friends back to life, last second healing, and the heal spell (which is eventually the only good in combat healing spell along with heal, mass). In an Eberron game and any game using the feats with the standard restrictions you would need to be a halfling. If not in Eberron you can ask your DM if you can have them on your character.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Thanks for the input guys.

I was looking over the Badge of Valor and, maybe I'm missing something, but where does it say that it improves Inspire Courage?

Broach made of gold.
+2 Morale bonus on saves vs. Fear (stacks
with the bonus from a Paladin’s Aura of
Courage ability and a Bard’s Inspire
Courage ability).
+4 bonus on checks to avoid being intimidated

As a Dwarf, I'd like to keep my weapons as either a Warhammer or a Battleaxe (stereotypically Dwarven weapons). Is there a reason I should choose one over the other?

Thanks again

[Fouredged Sword]

I would like to suggest at least a dip into warweaver. It costs a feat, a caster level, and a few skill points, but it masses all of your healing and buff spells for free.

Mix with healing hymn for 1d8+5+23 healing to 7 or 8 people. As a first level spell.

This is the only build I have ever seen that can keep up with combat healing numbers, doubly so in large groups where a fireball can deal 100 or so damage across the whole party.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Thanks for the input guys.

I was looking over the Badge of Valor and, maybe I'm missing something, but where does it say that it improves Inspire Courage?

Broach made of gold.
+2 Morale bonus on saves vs. Fear (stacks
with the bonus from a Paladin’s Aura of
Courage ability and a Bard’s Inspire
Courage ability).
+4 bonus on checks to avoid being intimidated

As a Dwarf, I'd like to keep my weapons as either a Warhammer or a Battleaxe (stereotypically Dwarven weapons). Is there a reason I should choose one over the other?

Thanks again

You may be looking at a different one. I'm looking at the one from the Magic Item Compendium, page 208.


I would like to suggest at least a dip into warweaver. It costs a feat, a caster level, and a few skill points, but it masses all of your healing and buff spells for free.

Mix with healing hymn for 1d8+5+23 healing to 7 or 8 people. As a first level spell.

This is the only build I have ever seen that can keep up with combat healing numbers, doubly so in large groups where a fireball can deal 100 or so damage across the whole party.

No. That was the same trap that the build 'mother theressa' had. You lose out on more than you gain.

You're healing 1d8+28 damage. For an average of 32.5 damage per person.

If you are *LUCKY*, and your opponent decides for blastomancy, Meteor Swarm deals 24d6 damage.

Or just simply spam Delayed blast Fireballs at you for 20d6 each. For an average of 70 damage *EACH*. Assuming he doesn't Empower or Maximize it.

Your problem is that you are focusing on 'total healing output', rather than 'per target output', which is the important part. It also reduces his Bard levels, which reduces his Inspire Courage numbers, and reduces overall party damage output.

When you play Rocket Tag, band-aids are not important. Hitting with a bigger, harder, faster rocket is.

[Fouredged Sword]

It is a first level spell slot though. What you want to do is get your weave pool full of these for when the party really needs the healing and then refill it after the battle. 1d8+27 isn't great. 4d8+106 is. It also leaves all your high level spell slots open for sublime chord casting meteror swarm back, or better yet shapechange.

Mix this with party wide blur and other great bardbuffs and you can really make a stab at being a booster bard.

Mix with Sublime chord to get high level spell for nice party wide buffs from outside your list. Keep in mind that it is posible to quicken a cure spell into a 9th level sublime chord slot for mid battle healing.

With early entry you can get warweaver done by 10th level, allowing you to cover all of sublime chord and turn yourself into a healing sorrcerer with access to shapechange and gate if you want to. If human take able learner to keep preform maxed out.

Becuse you use healing hymn to fill your weave you only need to use it outside of battle, so a limited number of .

Now you are giving up bardic music abilities, but it is balanced by being a very powerful spellcaster instead.

[Fax Celestis]

Does your DM allow homebrew (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9792850&postcount=23)?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

It is a first level spell slot though. What you want to do is get your weave pool full of these for when the party really needs the healing and then refill it after the battle. 1d8+27 isn't great. 4d8+106 is. It also leaves all your high level spell slots open for sublime chord casting meteror swarm back, or better yet shapechange. If you're going Sublime Chord, you might as well go straight Sorcerer. You still don't get Heal, which is the only healing spell worth bothering with.

And you still don't comprehend the concept of 'they can't hurt you if they die first'. War Weaver does ZILCH for you, because you can only apply it to 1st level spells, with a two-level dip. Oh, something else? Even though it's a 1st level spell, if it's prepared with, or uses, a 2nd or higher level spell slot? It won't fit in the weave. So you don't increase your endurance significantly, in exchange for nerfing yourself.


Mix this with party wide blur and other great bardbuffs and you can really make a stab at being a booster bard. Which my bard build already has.


Mix with Sublime chord to get high level spell for nice party wide buffs from outside your list. Keep in mind that it is posible to quicken a cure spell into a 9th level sublime chord slot for mid battle healing. Or you can Quicken Empowered Split Ray Enervation and kill opponents so you don't have to keep playing catch-up and let Lesser Vigor, Mass do it's job between combat.


With early entry you can get warweaver done by 10th level, allowing you to cover all of sublime chord and turn yourself into a healing sorrcerer with access to shapechange and gate if you want to. If human take able learner to keep preform maxed out. Early Entry Shennanigans is Bad Juju, mon.


Becuse you use healing hymn to fill your weave you only need to use it outside of battle, so a limited number of . Is still made of fail.


Now you are giving up bardic music abilities, but it is balanced by being a very powerful spellcaster instead.

No, you're being a very weak version of a bog-standard Sorcerer with the Arcane Disciple (Healing Domain) feat. Who actually HAS access to Heal.

[Fouredged Sword]

A tier two class is normaly better than a tier three. This build is a neat buff focused bard that won't slow down in later levels and doesn't simply add lots of stuff for everyone else.

This build plays very difrently than a sorcerer becuse of the free mass spell aplied to all the buffs a bard casts, greatly increaseing the impact of all his spells. There are many low level spells that have a great deal of impact on the party if mass cast. A straight bard will be faced with choseing who to buff or who to heal. A warweaver sublime chord just heals and buffs everyone while staying a short way back from the battle line.

A sorcerer healer gets one casting of heal a day. One person goes from almost dead to fully healed. One casting of various cure spells for minor healing. A sublime chord warweaver with healing hymn literaly can heal thousands of HP spread across the party. Every battle ends with the party filling up thier HP in seconds, not sitting there for 10 min while the CLW wand is passed around. This is powerful every time the DM decides to make time an issue.

If early entry bother you, go straight bard for 9 levels, take warweaver, then enter sublime chord for a single level followed by warweaver advanceing sublime chord casting. The end game effect is the same, but this blooms later.

The thread is about makeing a bard a capable primary healer, not a batman sorcerer or a DFI bard. Both of those have limited healing ability sutable olny for a backup healer or user of a CLW wand. Yes that is something you can get by doing, but sometimes people want a dynamic playable healer who balances healing with not being boreing to play. You will be hard pressed to find a better build for that this a warweaver sublime chord build.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

A tier two class is normaly better than a tier three. This build is a neat buff focused bard that won't slow down in later levels and doesn't simply add lots of stuff for everyone else.

This build plays very difrently than a sorcerer becuse of the free mass spell aplied to all the buffs a bard casts, greatly increaseing the impact of all his spells. There are many low level spells that have a great deal of impact on the party if mass cast. A straight bard will be faced with choseing who to buff or who to heal. A warweaver sublime chord just heals and buffs everyone while staying a short way back from the battle line. Only it's free mass spell applied only to up to 5th level spells, if you want to take War Weaver to cap, blow a worthless feat to qualify, and don't want to be more proactive in making things dead to obviate the necessity of healing in the first place.


A sorcerer healer gets one casting of heal a day. One person goes from almost dead to fully healed. One casting of various cure spells for minor healing. A sublime chord warweaver with healing hymn literaly can heal thousands of HP spread across the party. Every battle ends with the party filling up thier HP in seconds, not sitting there for 10 min while the CLW wand is passed around. This is powerful every time the DM decides to make time an issue. And Lesser Vigor, Mass (persisted) has infinite healing out of combat. Your point?


If early entry bother you, go straight bard for 9 levels, take warweaver, then enter sublime chord for a single level followed by warweaver advanceing sublime chord casting. The end game effect is the same, but this blooms later. You're still only able to pop up to 5th level spells in the Weave.


The thread is about makeing a bard a capable primary healer, not a batman sorcerer or a DFI bard. Both of those have limited healing ability sutable olny for a backup healer or user of a CLW wand. Yes that is something you can get by doing, but sometimes people want a dynamic playable healer who balances healing with not being boreing to play. You will be hard pressed to find a better build for that this a warweaver sublime chord build.

Only that's not what you're doing. What you are doing was louding the ability to chain a 1st level spell for free, which sucks, and touting, as the height of CharOp, the ability to heal ~32.5 damage per target.

How about, instead, being able to heal just as well, without bothering with either Sublime Chord OR War Weaver, AND being able to increase melee damage output by around 14d6 Sonic damage per attack, with +14 morale bonus to attack and damage? You know, at the same time as being able to heal better than your build, and not pretending he's a gimped Sorcerer. Oh, and actually being able to take a hit, and being able to make the entire party function as though they had a full BAB. Yea, even the casters.

[Fouredged Sword]

I am not saying that this build is the most powerful build posible with a bard. All healing falls into the same trap of not activly ending combat.

I am saying that this is a good build for a bard atempting to be the primary healer of a group though. The only issue I have with a DFI bard is that it fails to be a healer, and that is what the thread has requested.

Yes you have a better character mechanicly, but the party doesn't have a DMM persist cleric to persist mass vigor. The point itn't that there is one build that is clearly better, but that this build fills a party function.

Is it a function that can be done without, yes. Items can heal just fine in most cases. Is this a build that will fail to be helpful and meaningful in combat, no, this build will almost always have something to contribute in and outside of combat though powerful buffing, healing, and social skills.

It isn't always about createing the most "powerful" character, expecialy when the "op" build doesn't fill the nitch the player is trying to fill.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

It isn't always about createing the most "powerful" character, expecialy when the "op" build doesn't fill the nitch the player is trying to fill.

Except when it does...

Vigor line is on the bard list as well... One spell, which duplicates fifteen levels of shenanigans, and makes your entire concept obsolete.

[Keld Denar]

Lesser Restoration doesn't cure negative levels. Ability Damage, yes. Fatigued/Exhausted, yes. Energy Drain? Nope.

Lesser Vigor isn't on the Bard list...you'd have to UMD it. Cleric/Druid only.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Lesser Restoration doesn't cure negative levels. Ability Damage, yes. Fatigued/Exhausted, yes. Energy Drain? Nope.

Lesser Vigor isn't on the Bard list...you'd have to UMD it. Cleric/Druid only.

So pick up Caduceus Bracers + Lifebonded Vestments for unlimited negative level removal.

As far as lesser vigor, they do get Healing Spirit, which can be persisted, although you'd need shenanigans to pull it off.

[Draz74]

So pick up Caduceus Bracers + Lifebonded Vestments for unlimited negative level removal.

I'm not sure Caduceus Bracers work with Lifebond Vestments, and they certainly don't say anything about removing negative levels.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'm not sure Caduceus Bracers work with Lifebond Vestments, and they certainly don't say anything about removing negative levels.

Yes, they work, although for some reason I thought negative levels were on the list of things it healed... hrrmmmm... it's basically Lesser Restoration, so it's not necessary since the build already picked that up.

Honestly, I'd be *FAR* more concerned about negative levels than I would about topping people off between fights.

[Coidzor]

HP is the easy part, after all. Bards can use a wand of CLW in their sleep.

[Big Fau]

I'll just leave this here. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871786/A_Players_Guide_to_Healing_(And,_why_you_will_be_J ust_Fine_without_a_Cleric_to_heal))

This concept has been expanded upon considerably since it was first posted. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8965.0)


So pick up Caduceus Bracers + Lifebonded Vestments for unlimited negative level removal.


Generous Sacrifice (EoE)+An undead ally/minion is better, but requires an Evil alignment.

[Draz74]

Yes, they work,

Source? Caduceus Bracers references daily healing abilities, and Lifebond Vestments are an hourly quantity of healing ... right?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Oh, if you want to use War Weaver, then bloody well *use* it properly. How about this for size:

Bard8/War Weaver5/Combat Medic5/Uncanny Trickster2

What does this get? Chain Reach *HEAL*. That's removal of all status effects. That's removal of negative levels. That's 'Mr Fix-It AND healing'.

And he can pull it off because Uncanny Trickster advances War Weaver to get 6th level spells in the Weave.

Fifty or so points of healing per person? Not keeping up with the Joneses. 200 or so points of healing, plus removal of all negative status effects? Much better.

[Keld Denar]

Sanctum Spell would allow you to weave 7th level spells, and would allow you early entry into War Weaver, if you desired.

[Fouredged Sword]

I think that build has gone to far in the other direction. You are gving up 9's and that will be hard to account for. The sublime chord build could always fall back on a shapechange or wish if it really wanted to. Though access to heal as a warweavable spell isn't something I take lightly.

It is all just a matter of opinion though. Both builds are significantly better healers than a standard bard.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Sanctum Spell would allow you to weave 7th level spells, and would allow you early entry into War Weaver, if you desired.

Let's not go there, we want the player to survive the night. This might be in question if he brings something like that to the table.


I think that build has gone to far in the other direction. You are gving up 9's and that will be hard to account for. The sublime chord build could always fall back on a shapechange or wish if it really wanted to. Though access to heal as a warweavable spell isn't something I take lightly.

It is all just a matter of opinion though. Both builds are significantly better healers than a standard bard.

He wants a Bard Primary Healer, not a Bard-replacement-sorcerer...

Sublime Chord is when you don't have a primary caster in the group, or if you want to be a Tier 2 class with panache. It's great for that job. It's, in fact, the most powerful option a Bard has...

However, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the right one for every job.

[Gnaeus]

Thanks folks. I was looking at statting up a bard in case my current character dies, and this thread will help much.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

I'm going to toss a major thank you out there to all the posters here, as well. I think I will stick with the build that permits me Warchanter. However, the War Weaver idea is a neat thought.

Thanks a million to you all.

I brought a box of cookies; you all get one.