Kushiels Legacy

[Sunken Valley]

Has anybody else read this amazing series of books by Jaqueline Carey?

[Fri]

Read the first book. Thought of it as pretty cool actually... Cool setting and alternate universe and such. Until around halfway or three quarter through it.

By then I realized how the protagonist solve every problem by sleeping with them.

Still pretty cool. I actually kinda like the viking big bad leader guy.

[The Glyphstone]

We won't really be able to discuss the series in much detail and still be board-safe, but I have read them, and did like them. The only one I really disliked was Book 5, the middle of the second trilogy. The third book of each trilogy was the best for me, because it made the fantasy/magical elements prominent instead of sidestaged to 'It's Renaissance Europe, but everyone is kinky!"

[ThunderCat]

Read first and second trilogy and liked both of them very much. I was a bit sceptical to begin with, because of the premise of the story. I don't like when something is 'adult' purely for the sake of seeming edgy, and the fantasy genre has a horrible tendency to create an over-abundance of female characters who're defined by their sex appeal and sexual relations, which is not something I need to see more of.

But the series surprised me positively. I love alternative fantasy universes, well written books, and stories which leaves time for character development, personal drama, and relationships, but without letting it take all the focus away from the story. As a bonus, it's by far the best description of BDSM I've ever seen in fiction (which isn't saying much, since most books just use it as something icky to have the bad guys do).

[warty goblin]

I read the first one, but didn't really feel compelled to keep reading after that. It fell into the trough of listless prose that all to many fantasy novels* do, where each sentence is as myopic and blandly descriptive as the next, and the paragraphs end not for emphasis or pacing, but because it's been quite a while since the last carriage return. I didn't really find any of the characters particularly appealing or even interesting either - they mostly felt like collections of attributes that were never successfully welded into distinct personalities.

I tried the LoTR but from the badguys' perspective trilogy by the same author, and found it to be similarly soporific. Not bad per say, but so relentlessly average in execution as to be less interesting than something actually bad.

*to be fair this is probably true of fiction as a whole. Since I've read mostly fantasy however I cannot safely generalize beyond that.

[The Glyphstone]

The author does have a distinct problem with purple prose, it's true.

(though to be pedantic, the dualogy you're referring to isn't specifically LotR from the bad guy perspective, more like an extended homage.)

[comicshorse]

A female friend lent me the first series which I enjoyed immensely, even if the second one did seem by far the weakest of the three.
She was scathing about the second triliogy so I never bothered.

[Somebloke]

Loved the series, including the second trilogy. I kinda disliked the third in some parts though, if only because the sheer amount of things the main character does (and the people she sleeps with) in the first book kinda pushes the limits.

[warty goblin]

The author does have a distinct problem with purple prose, it's true.

I wouldn't call her prose purple. It's certainly tinged violet, like the edge of a sunset rainbow in the waning days of summer, but is considerably paler than the infinite heliotropic brilliance of an echinacea or the oceanic depths of this burgundy shaded sentence.

Mostly it's just torpid and devoid of interest. They're words on the page, they fit together into sentences, but only in entirely pedestrian ways - I can't remember ever pausing to admire a phrase or the rhythm of a description. In some ways I find this worse than actually bad prose, since at least there the mind is held by the appeal of seeing the next trainwreck of a simile.



(though to be pedantic, the dualogy you're referring to isn't specifically LotR from the bad guy perspective, more like an extended homage.)
Specifically it isn't, it is however pretty much isomorphic to LoTR in all ways that matter. Except being good, I felt the first book (didn't feel like reading the second) missed out on that little detail. It had its moments, or maybe moment, but other than that was pretty poor.

[The Glyphstone]

Loved the series, including the second trilogy. I kinda disliked the third in some parts though, if only because the sheer amount of things the main character does (and the people she sleeps with) in the first book kinda pushes the limits.

Third book, or third trilogy?

I tend to just sit back and suspend my disbelief in a nice net of 'when all you have is a hammer' - in this case (well, for Trilogies 1 and 3), when all you are is a prostitute, every problem (including saving the world) can be solved by sleeping with it.

[Viking_Mage]

I just finished the 5th book in the series about 10 minutes ago actually. And while, yes, the sex does take grand portions of the text, I disagree that Phedre solves all of her problems with sex, 95% yes, but not all of them - any problems post Darsanga are not solved with sex nor are any while getting there. She does solve several problems with being cunning and well-educated.

And I agree with Fri, Waldemar Selig (the bad Viking guy) was awesome and a thoroughly good villain, one of which I was rooting for until the final battle at Troyes-Le-Mont.

[ThunderCat]

I don't think it's a problem that Phédre solves a lot of problems in sexual ways. Joscelin is a fighter, it's possible for him to infiltrate the places he does because people want him to fight for them, he can gain allies and make a big impression on people because he's good at fighting, and a lot of conflicts end with him killing a bad guy. Phédre is a courtesan (and spy), it's possible for her to infiltrate the places she does because people want her services, she can gain allies and make a big impression on people because of what she offer them, and potential problems are avoided by her sleeping with people. And as Viking Mage said, she's also intelligent and well educated, not to mention brave.

[Somebloke]

Third book, or third trilogy?

I tend to just sit back and suspend my disbelief in a nice net of 'when all you have is a hammer' - in this case (well, for Trilogies 1 and 3), when all you are is a prostitute, every problem (including saving the world) can be solved by sleeping with it.

Definitely the third trilogy. I mean, in one book, the heroine- a witch-girl raised in the wilds- beds an Irish-expy nobleman, then another, more important Frence-expy nobleman, then the Queen of France-expy, then the prince of France-expy, the queen again, then possibly the best fighter in all of China-expy, then a dragon-possessed princess, and finally the princess on her own. I like all of the books- strangely enough for the fantasy elements rather than the sex- but the character kinda badly pulled at my suspension of disbelief.

[Viking_Mage]

I like all of the books- strangely enough for the fantasy elements rather than the sex

I got into this series for some curiosities about the BDSM aspects*, but stay because of the espionage and political thriller aspects. Also, Imriel's coming-of-age story in the second trilogy is poignant, and while probably nothing unique in and of itself, is not something that I have read before this series. I thoroughly enjoy the mythology and want to know more about the other companions of Terre d'Ange.

*At what point does discussing this aspect of the series does it warrant moderator intervention?

[The Glyphstone]

*At what point does discussing this aspect of the series does it warrant moderator intervention?

Anything more than mentioning it exists, I'd say offhand without consulting 'up the chain'. PG-13 and all that.

[Somebloke]

I got into this series for some curiosities about the BDSM aspects*, but stay because of the espionage and political thriller aspects. Also, Imriel's coming-of-age story in the second trilogy is poignant, and while probably nothing unique in and of itself, is not something that I have read before this series. I thoroughly enjoy the mythology and want to know more about the other companions of Terre d'Ange.

*At what point does discussing this aspect of the series does it warrant moderator intervention?

I really dug their spin on sorcerous bloodlines- an interesting take on the idea of the planetouched ideal. I used it for my campaign (not incorporating any of the other ideals).

[Jerthanis]

I picked up the first book on the suggestion of a friend, which caused a lot of raised eyebrows toward the friend, as she didn't warn me about its subject matter.

I thought it presented a pretty neat mystery in a cutthroat spy-vs-spy mannerpunk high society. The biggest thing I was impressed by was that the author really conveyed that all the characters were really really smart and adept at their jobs. I was so impressed by this that I almost didn't notice that the mystery aspect of the book was really not very organically developed, or that well written.

This aspect of the book actually killed A Game of Thrones for me, and it took until Storm of Swords for me to really get into that series. A Song of Ice and Fire was just the opposite, with a bunch of friggin' idiots on absolutely every side of the intrigue.

I would say that the biggest three weapons she brought to bear were: Her ability to get other people to sacrifice themselves for her, in a distant second her well trained eye/mind to figure out a situation, and in an even further distant third place her sexuality.

I read the second book and thought it was okay except for the random pirate interlude, but never really got into the third book... I'm not really sure why.