OOTS #803 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Mutant Sheep]

Oh Quar. You gave him the coordinates. Awesome! Also, AUGH THOG EVEN MADDER I'M SCARED!
awww. Qarr said Z was a guy. There goes my theory on him being V from the future, mind-wiped and sent to the past. :smallfrown:

[Timeless Error]

Demiplane of Extremely Cruel Torture. :smallbiggrin:

[Edge of Dreams]

Where'd that pile of treasure come from? Is that the random loot table rolls for V winning the fight or...?

[Circle of Life]

Best strip in a long time. I haven't laughed out loud that hard in quite a while. Great job, Giant. :smallsmile:


Where'd that pile of treasure come from? Is that the random loot table rolls for V winning the fight or...?

That's the contents of Haley's bag of holding. You can see it being opened in an earlier strip.

[Mutant Sheep]

Where'd that pile of treasure come from? Is that the random loot table rolls for V winning the fight or...?

Its the bag Haley dropped when she was turned to stone. The kobold was looking at it a few strips ago too. Random loot table is a good answer though!

Wait, did Thog de-rage then Re-rage when he saw Sir Scraggly? It looks like he was turning less green but the dust makes it hard to see. :smallredface:

[stimepy]

That's a one up on the peasant. Though, really it was deserved this time....

Poor puppy, and poor Roy. The distraction did no good. :smallannoyed:

[unknownmercury]

The treasure came from Haley's Bag of Holding.

[Velaryon]

Awesome. Some explanation for Z's bizarre choice of where he sent V, and an awesome moment for Mr. Scruffy!

I think it was about panel 10 when I first realized "Blackwing's not giving that belt to Roy." Still, I hadn't guessed Mr. Scruffy. That was great.

[Caractacus]

Quick! Send in the clowns! With the ice cream! And sprinkles! :smalleek:

[MesiDoomstalker]

Well done BW! Impressive! Even more, that is one strong cat! Even with the boosted stat, Mr. Scruffy is almost on par with Roy (unmodified).

[Lateral]

Oooh. That was a nice fake-out, the whole thing with the belt. (Sure would've saved Roy's ass, though.)

[ftx]

Well, that plan backfired. :smallbiggrin:

[M.A.D]

Technically, it didn't. Someone WAS saved :smallbiggrin:

So, the IFCC wants V alive no matter what, which means they really are planning to use her body while she's still alive.

...and I've just realized that this wasn't the best choice of words...

[CoffeeIncluded]

Wasn't expecting that.

[SquirrelKing]

That, sir Giant, was pure WIN!! My workmates officially think I'm nuts now. I love it :smallbiggrin:

So Mr Scruffy now has a Strength score of...what? 22? Oh, wait...no...that's his Charisma.

[MesiDoomstalker]

I just realized that't the whole from earlier! Ok maybe Mr. Scruffy wasn't AS strong as I thought but still, Sir Scraggly got some distance!

[Trixie]

Suddenly, I like Blackwing a lot more :smallamused:

He certainly has his priorities in order :smallbiggrin:

[SquirrelKing]

Wasn't expecting that.

Nobody expects the (Mr.) Scruffy Inquisition!

...

what? :smallbiggrin:

[Mastikator]

I like this side of Thog a lot more, I can take him a little more seriously, even though he's still a moron he's a decisive moron!

[Trixie]

Oooh. That was a nice fake-out, the whole thing with the belt. (Sure would've saved Roy's ass, though.)

Eh, seen it coming/expected it from the start. It was a little too obvious :smallwink:

[faith]

go lil cat!

[MesiDoomstalker]

Eh, seen it coming/expected it from the start. It was a little too obvious :smallwink:

I didn't! I only knew it was coming was because I scrolled down too far too fast :smalleek:

[Shas aia Toriia]

Great job.
Another fantastic comic.

[bluewind95]

Scruffy's expressions when it gets the belt and then turns back to the dog are just priceless.

[Laws of Chaos]

I think I have a new favorite strip!!

Thanks Giant!

[Z3ro]

I haven't laughed that hard at a strip in a while. Thanks.

[Soepvork]

I thought for a moment Blackwing was going to put on the belt to pick up something else (and bring 2 items at once)

[Neopolis]

Heh, that was clever. Mister Scruffy kicking ass. It's also a good explanation for why Z sent V to such a silly plane.

[McDouggal]

Does this mean that thog's rage is over?

EDIT: Am I correct in remembering that once a Barbarian's rage ends, he can't re-rage for 5 minutes? Or more?

[Warmage]

Mr. Scruffy is definitely the best housecat ever. Maybe he can back up Roy in the fight against Thog...

[zimmerwald1915]

Wait, did Thog de-rage then Re-rage when he saw Sir Scraggly? It looks like he was turning less green but the dust makes it hard to see. :smallredface:
The color of Thog's forehead and the skin around his eyes in page 2 panel 4(RGB 135, 191, 116) is the same color as Thog's left shoulder and left lower lip in page 2 panel 2. That color, we can see from the artwork in page 2 panel 2, is produced by overlaying two transparent dust clouds over Thog's regular coloring. It's thus perfectly possible that page 2 panel 4 is exceptionally dusty. What's more, this is a simpler explanation (an extended grapple like the one we're shown would surely kick up dust) than Thog's rage ending and immediately beginning again.

Against this argument from color we have Thog's eyebrows which form parentheses around his eyes rather than a V above them. Thog has been shown in rage without any expressive eyebrows in strip 803 page 2 panel 10, with "especially enraged" parentheses in strip 387 page 2 panel 10, strip 795 page 2 panel 8, and strip 796 page 2 panel 7. But he has never before been shown in rage with just "shocked/dismayed" parentheses.

[MammonAzrael]

Oh my god, that is fantastic!

Quar giving the planar coordinates makes the ranch plane make sense!
Saving Mr. Scruffy was perfect!
I'm growing to love Blackwing.

:smallbiggrin:

[Eldest]

That was utterly unexpected...
Nice comic!

[Kyronea]

Obvious it may have been as a fake-out, but it was still really funny.

[KoboldCleric]

Anyone else see the comic title, flashback to a certain other belt that saved the day, and think "oh no. Here we go again?" I was pleasantly surprised, of course (as usual).

[MonkeyBusiness]

In addition to the suspense and humor of #803, I like that Blackwing helped Mr Scruffy although those two usually don't get along. Of course Blackwing will see Mr Scruffy as a party member, not merely as a "companion of a party member"!

Loved it!

[ref]

Go, team Animal!

[Laws of Chaos]

Mr. Scruffy is definitely the best housecat ever. Maybe he can back up Roy in the fight against Thog...

It looks like Roy need all the help he can get! Plus, now Thog's a bit peeved about Roy hurting the puppy!

[otakuryoga]

negative consequences for Roy when you take any kind of action?

yep...that is truly a team member

[rbetieh]

Ok so now we know how V gets back. Quarr or ifcc know exactly where V is and can retrieve him at any time. Now this is where things get interesting....we can speculate that ifcc sent qarr to get Z and lawyer the lawyers. We can possibly speculate that Sabine is responsible for the Guild going toEOB instead of another of the states where they aren't oficially criminals. So what are the ifcc trying to pull? It looks like Thog v Roy is an accident. They have no interest inBlackwing. They don't want V dead. I would think at first that this is a setup to remove a member of the order that could interfere with their plans, but who?

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!


I think it was about panel 10 when I first realized "Blackwing's not giving that belt to Roy." Still, I hadn't guessed Mr. Scruffy. That was great.
My first thought was he was trying to drop it for Roy, but it was going to land on Thog.

But it was delivered where it was most needed.

[Andre]

Who needs Roy when you have an housecat with a Belt of Giant Strength in your adventuring party?

Like a boss. :smallbiggrin:

[Valwyn]

Mr Scruffy used Tackle!

A Critical Hit!

Sir Scraggly fainted!

[Wanda V'Orcus]

Way to go, Mr. Scruffy!!! :smallbiggrin:

Cheers, JohnH / Wanda

P.S.: BTW, did anyone else have the "Popeye om-nom-noms the can of spinach" music in their mind as they read this one?? :smalltongue:

[Whiffet]

What a great comic to come home to. :smallbiggrin:

Mr. Scruffy is okay! Mr. Scruffy is okay! Oh, yeah, Roy's in trouble again, but who cares about him? MR. SCRUFFY IS OKAY!

[SamBurke]

All is explained!

Scruffy, YOU can be the new two-weapon-fighting murderer!

[Holy_Knight]

I second the love for Mr. Scruffy's expressions! Great stuff.

[NYCharlie212]

We need a side-plot with Blackwing and Mr. Scuffy doing a buddy cop parody of something. They are the 2 most badass creatures I have ever seen XD

[HandofShadows]

Nuts. Roy was winning again and gets blamed for something he didn't do. But a very nice save by Blackwing. :smallcool:

[Laws of Chaos]

We need a side-plot with Blackwing and Mr. Scuffy doing a buddy cop parody of something. They are the 2 most badass creatures I have ever seen XD

I agree, that would be a good gag strip. Maybe in the next book... I'd buy it!:smallbiggrin:

[Arcran]

TALKY MAN HURT DOGGY! Haha great comic Rich.

[Orzel]

*sees panel with falling belt*

For Roy? No. Not funny enough.
Let's see
V. No use. Not in plane.
Haley. Stoned.
Belkar.. maybe but where's the joke.
Elan. No he already took out his brother.
Durkon? Boring dwarf is boring.
Who is left?

*reads rest of comic*
You never disappoint.

[ScrapperTBP]

Has Thog re-raged?
If so Roy is in yet more trouble. And where has Belkar gone?

[Ron Miel]

Anyone else see the comic title, flashback to a certain other belt that saved the day, and think "oh no. Here we go again?" I was pleasantly surprised, of course (as usual).

what other belt was that?

[Sannom]

Seriously, what is Thog's class? Some sort of Barbarian sub-class that can't Rage at will but whose strength reaches Hulk-level when someone really pisses him off? Roy is on a string of bad luck if Thog continues to get madder and madder.

[legomaster00156]

And here is a familiar NOT making use of enhanced intelligence.:smallsigh:

[Ember_Glow]

Nice comic.

[Threadnaught]

Does this mean that thog's rage is over?

EDIT: Am I correct in remembering that once a Barbarian's rage ends, he can't re-rage for 5 minutes? Or more?

Going by the rules of the game maybe. Going by how a character behaves, maybe not. I've read the articles written by The Giant, he talks a lot about emotional responses for all characters not just during diplomacy scenes, but even during battle. Not just for NPCs, but for PCs as well.

"Talky Man" caused Thog to Rage by breaking Thog's tusk, then when a dog fell into the arena severely injured, Thog blamed "Talky Man" for it because he was the nearest to Thog and Thog too dumb to see the bigger picture than what's immediately in front of him unless someone paints it for him, even then it needs to be something simple and childish.


The Giant seems to follow the rules closely for the comics, but some rules are okay to break if it fits the context according to the articles he wrote.

[Turgon9357]

What a tweest!

[rbetieh]

Has Thog re-raged?
If so Roy is in yet more trouble. And where has Belkar gone?
Perhaps Belkar has been caught by a Tarquin lackey. I believe that as genre savvy as Tarquin is, there is no way that he doesn't have anti-Spartacus plant in his detention facility. Bonus points if they turn out to be actual plants.

[Palthera]

what other belt was that?


Belt of Feminity/Masculinity.

Oh and Thog never stopped raging, he's just crosser than he was when he started.

[LCData1701]

what other belt was that?

was there a gender-changing one Roy used? I'm sure someone w/ better archiving skills can find the actual panel(s)...

[Aldreck]

what other belt was that?

Belt of gender-changing, I suspect.

Edit: Ninja'd

[Laws of Chaos]

So, from what I can tell, Mr Scruffy is now a force to be reconed with! Cats have a Str of 3, no big woop, but he's an animal companion, and with Belkar being about 12th lvl, maybe higher, gives him a +8 to Str, giving him an 11. Now he has a Belt of Giants STR, guessing +6, just because I can see the Giant wanting to do things right. So you got this house cat that with a 17 STR! LOL I love this comic!

Sorry, looked in wrong space, it's a Plus 4, So a 13 Str, still one helluva whallop though

[cheesymetal]

i gotta say, mr. scruufy is becoming my favorite character in the comic. hes too awesome.

[SatyreIkon]

Pure distilled and certified awesomeness. Go Mr. Scruffy! :smallbiggrin:

[MoonCat]

Giant, how the hell do you continue to surprise me with your twists and awesomeness? Also, like I said, totally awesome focus on items and things in this fight.

And Blackwing is sooo adorable! Shiny!

[Metahuman1]

My money says Anti Spartacus was Ian Starshines buddy. The one who was gonna shank Elan when he snuck in and with Hayley?

[revenge256]

Anyone else see the comic title, flashback to a certain other belt that saved the day, and think "oh no. Here we go again?" I was pleasantly surprised, of course (as usual).

I totally thought Roy was going to be saved by being changed into a girl (which Thog is afraid of, remember?).

[Stegyre]

Here's a puzzle: what is Belkar to do? There are no longer any LG threats near the arena (excepting Thog, of course).


And here is a familiar NOT making use of enhanced intelligence.:smallsigh:

To the contrary, Blackwing delivers the belt right where it may do the most good: it probably saved Mr. Scruffy's life.

BW is a bird, not a humanoid, so I suspect that from his perspective, the non-humanoid party members are just as important (or at least as important) as the others.

[Mutant Sheep]

My money says Anti Spartacus was Ian Starshines buddy. The one who was gonna shank Elan when he snuck in and with Hayley?

You mean Haley's uncle Geoff?

[MoonCat]

My money says Anti Spartacus was Ian Starshines buddy. The one who was gonna shank Elan when he snuck in and with Hayley?

That was Uncle Geoff.

Ninja'd.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Seriously, what is Thog's class? Some sort of Barbarian sub-class that can't Rage at will but whose strength reaches Hulk-level when someone really pisses him off? Roy is on a string of bad luck if Thog continues to get madder and madder.

Frenzied Berserker. But instead of activating when he gets hurt, it activates when a clown or dog gets hurt, or when he's out of ice cream.

[Wanda V'Orcus]

So, from what I can tell, Mr Scruffy is now a force to be reconed with! Cats have a Str of 3, no big woop, but he's an animal companion, and with Belkar being about 12th lvl, maybe higher, gives him a +8 to Str, giving him an 11. Now he has a Belt of Giants STR, guessing +6, just because I can see the Giant wanting to do things right. So you got this house cat that with a 17 STR! LOL I love this comic!

Sorry, looked in wrong space, it's a Plus 4, So a 13 Str, still one helluva whallop though

Question is -- what did Mr. Scruffy wallop Sir Scraggly with?? :smallconfused:

I mean, yeah, Mr. Scruffy could've cuffed Sir Scraggly with his paw -- I've seen cats visit that upon other animals plenty of times -- but surely he would've used his claws of evisceration instead??

Just think -- how awesome would it have been to see entrails, well, trailing Sir Scraggly as he sailed through the hole in the wall into the arena? :smallamused: Or are intestines only for use in final panel jokes?? :smallwink:

Cheers, JohnH / Wanda

[Talya]

A belt of giant strength gives a cat between 7 and 9 strength. Now, assuming Belkar has 12 levels of ranger, that makes the cat between 9 and 11 strength. It's not throwing a wolf through a wall.

[Roderick_BR]

Awesome. Some explanation for Z's bizarre choice of where he sent V, and an awesome moment for Mr. Scruffy!

I think it was about panel 10 when I first realized "Blackwing's not giving that belt to Roy." Still, I hadn't guessed Mr. Scruffy. That was great.
Myself, I totally didn't see that coming. Damn bait and switch :smalltongue:

[faustin]

Besides the laws of comedy, why did Blackwing choose to help Mr. Scruffy instead of Roy? He is still having a bad time against Thog´s rage.

[Mutant Sheep]

Besides the laws of comedy, why did Blackwing choose to help Mr. Scruffy instead of Roy? He is still having a bad time against Thog´s rage.

Because even though they don't get along, animals see other animals as beings too, not class features.:smallannoyed:

[goodyarn]

Not only was the choice of Mr. Scruffy hiLARious, but I would argue it was strategically the best choice Blackwing could have made.

Picking any other OOTS member would only have been a marginal improvement. Roy, Belkar and Durkon are already of above average strength. V and Haley (if she weren't paralyzed) don't use strength directly. Elan has his charisma bonus.

Picking Mr. Scruffy changes him from an afterthought to a front-line attacker.

The Linear Guild is in deep doo-doo.

[Fitzclowningham]

I'm thinking Thog's rage is just about done. It has been going on for a long while now, and the fight has been too one-sided for too long to continue as it has.

[Gd8908]

Sniff... How could you hurt the puppy, Roy?

[MesiDoomstalker]

A belt of giant strength gives a cat between 7 and 9 strength. Now, assuming Belkar has 12 levels of ranger, that makes the cat between 9 and 11 strength. It's not throwing a wolf through a wall.

Its not through a wall, its through a giant gaping hole in the wall. Still, an impressive bull rush considering strength score (even boosted) and size penalties.

[Zmflavius]

was there a gender-changing one Roy used? I'm sure someone w/ better archiving skills can find the actual panel(s)...

This one.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0234.html

[Snails]

A belt of giant strength gives a cat between 7 and 9 strength. Now, assuming Belkar has 12 levels of ranger, that makes the cat between 9 and 11 strength. It's not throwing a wolf through a wall.

Thog made the hole in the wall, before.

[Timberboar]

A belt of giant strength gives a cat between 7 and 9 strength. Now, assuming Belkar has 12 levels of ranger, that makes the cat between 9 and 11 strength. It's not throwing a wolf through a wall.

Second edition belt grandfathered in? :P

[Gd8908]

Not only was the choice of Mr. Scruffy hiLARious, but I would argue it was strategically the best choice Blackwing could have made.

Picking any other OOTS member would only have been a marginal improvement. Roy, Belkar and Durkon are already of above average strength. V and Haley (if she weren't paralyzed) don't use strength directly. Elan has his charisma bonus.

Picking Mr. Scruffy changes him from an afterthought to a front-line attacker.

The Linear Guild is in deep doo-doo.
Not that that isn't Giant-level clevervility, but you put an almost scary amount of thought into these comics, don't you?:smalleek:
PS: I can't wait for Scruffles to single-handedly defeat the Linear Guild.

[Seraphem]

negative consequences for Roy when you take any kind of action?

yep...that is truly a team member


Oh god..I had JUST managed to get my laughter under control from the strip, now this..can't breathe...to much awesome hilarity.

Definitely one of the most epically hilarious strips in a long time. Team animal companion FTW.

[Dandria]

Well, now that explains a lot of things.

[Toper]

BW is a bird, not a humanoid, so I suspect that from his perspective, the non-humanoid party members are just as important (or at least as important) as the others.
Yup, I'm pretty sure that's the joke -- he's particularly proud of having helped a teammate in spite of their past differences (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0750.html).

I was totally fooled by the panel layout, wasn't expecting Mr. Scruffy at all. This one was awesome.

[GFawkes]

A belt of giant strength gives a cat between 7 and 9 strength. Now, assuming Belkar has 12 levels of ranger, that makes the cat between 9 and 11 strength. It's not throwing a wolf through a wall.

Here's my math on the subject:

Cats start at STR 3.
As an animal companion of a level 12 ranger (Effective Druid Level 6), he gets a bonus 2 STR (Total 5)
It's a +6 Belt of Giant Strength, bringing the Scruffinator to STR 9

Now, the maximum load for an STR 9 Tiny creature is 45 lbs. Since he was pushing/dragging, that gets multiplied by 5, resulting in 225 lbs. I figure Sir Scraggly weighs about 150 pounds. That leaves Scruffy with a decent margin with which to utilize his new strength.

tl;dr

Rule of Cool

[Volthawk]

Here's my math on the subject:

Cats start at STR 3.
As an animal companion of a level 12 ranger (Effective Druid Level 6), he gets a bonus 2 STR (Total 5)
It's a +6 Belt of Giant Strength, bringing the Scruffinator to STR 9

Now, the maximum load for an STR 9 Tiny creature is 45 lbs. Since he was pushing/dragging, that gets multiplied by 5, resulting in 225 lbs. I figure Sir Scraggly weighs about 150 pounds. That leaves Scruffy with a decent margin with which to utilize his new strength.

tl;dr

Rule of Cool

Wait, what? Strength 5 with a +6 Belt ends up with Strength 9? 5+6=9? You mean a total of STR 11.

[Tundar]

And there I was, expecting something with that Belt of gender change.

Go mr Scruffy! That look on his face is priceless.
Go Blackwing!

[faustin]

To who was suposed to report Qarr? Z or the IFCC? :smallconfused:

[Scrynor]

As far as Blackwing making the right choice we also need to consider this fact: Blackwing knew that Mr. Scruffy was in danger and that V was supposed to be in charge of watching Mr. Scruffy. I'm guessing Blackwing doesn't want to be re-united with V only to have his master be shanked by one super pissed halfling murderer. It was a good call to help both the Order and V.

As for Thog, whether or not he actually unraged and reraged, I agree with whoever said frenzied berserker. Thog is one of the only characters actively shown to min/max and his rages do seem more emotion/will save dependant than your typical straight barbarian. I think a prestige class makes sense for him unlike most characters in the strip.

[Dandria]

To who was suposed to report Qarr? Z or the IFCC? :smallconfused:

IFCC, I think. Z doesn't really matter all that much.

[Roland Itiative]

Great chapter, and I did not expect the twist :smalltongue: Suddenly, Blackwing is a much more awesome character.

[ORione]

Blackwing's a way better teammate than Zz'dtri.

Not only was Z willing to kill Yukyuk, but he sent him to what he thinks is the Demiplane of Extremely Painful Torture.

[Fitzclowningham]

IFCC, I think. Z doesn't really matter all that much.

He doesn't seem too concerned about what's happening to Z at the moment...

[veti]

Ha. Totally called it. People said a wounded housecat would have no chance against Sir Scraggly, but I never doubted. I may have missed one or two minor mechanical details, but hey.

But why does Thog blame Roy?

[Person_Man]

It seems like Roy has a 1st or 2nd edition Belt of Giant's Strength, which set your Strength at a specific number (20-25). If it was a 3.0 or 3.5 edition Belt of Giant Strength, then Mr. Scruffy would only get +4 or +6 enhancement bonus to Strength. Since a cat's base Strength is only 3, that would bump it up to a maximum of 9, which is still weaker then the wolf's Strength of 13.

Although theoretically either Mr. Scruffy or the wolf (or both) could be getting bonuses from being an Animal Companion.

And Mr. Scruffy would provoke at least one attack of opportunity from the Wolf, wither from being Tiny and entering his square, or from trying to do a Bull Rush without Improved Bull Rush.

Thank the gods that the Rule of Cool is in effect.

EDIT: DAMN FORUM NINJA'S!!!

[Morph Bark]

If only one of those shiny stones were an Ioun Stone of Strength...

[Gift Jeraff]

Oooh, I hope that means we get to see the archfiends soon. I love those guys! Oh and Blackwing continues to amaze.

[veti]

It seems like Roy has a 1st or 2nd edition Belt of Giant's Strength, which set your Strength at a specific number (20-25).

And "20-24" in 1e/2e STR would be equivalent to 30-40 today. There was a maximum defined level for all attributes in those days - even Thor and Atlas topped out at no more than 25 STR.

[Rules Lawyer #1]

A belt of giant strength gives a cat between 7 and 9 strength. Now, assuming Belkar has 12 levels of ranger, that makes the cat between 9 and 11 strength. It's not throwing a wolf through a wall.

True. However, I don't think Mr. Scruffy is an ordinary House Cat. Recall that Mr. Scruffy also eviscerated Belkar's arena opponent. That is a feat that is almost impossible for a House Cat even on a double or triple critical hit (max damage for one hit is 1, three hits is 3 points, plus triple critical gets the cat to a whopping 5 points of damage). I suppose it's possible that Belkar's opponent only had 4 hp. Maybe he was only a commoner, but it still stretches the imagination that an ordinary House Cat just jumps in and eviscerates him. In fact, my impression was that everyone in the arena and in the OOTS was shocked. Certainly, the readship must've been surprised. Maybe they all chalk it up to a lucky hit, quote the rule of drama, and move on...

In this case, the wolf is an animal companion with extra HD (2+4 = 6, I'm guessing) and that makes it even more unbelievable that an ordinary House Cat takes him out in one round (Giant Strength buffed max damage on three successful hits is 2+2+3=7). Notice that the comic suggests off-panel chase scene but not off-panel fighting between between Mr. Scruffy and Sir Scraggly. I don't think Mr. Scruffy is an ordinary House Cat. I think the Belt of Giant Strength gave Mr. Scruffy the reassurance (boost in morale) that he needed to overcome his fear and fight back (you'd run too if you had an arrow sticking in your flank - probably from a ranger with favored enemy Mr. Scruffy). I also think rule of drama applies. That's my take.

Great comic by the way. I suspected the belt wasn't going to Roy, but didn't guess at who might get the belt instead (and therefore enjoyed the switch to Mr. Scruffy). Having Sir Scraggly end up in the arena was an expert touch. Without this key tie in, the extra scenes between Roy and Thog would seem out of place. Nicely done!

[willpell]

Thog doesn't seem to be big on rational thought in his rage, oddly enough. "A puppy was hurt in my presence! It must somehow be the fault of this guy I'm already trying to kill (and have securely Grappled, but still somehow he did this!); now I'm going to try to kill him EVEN HARDER!" Not too happy about that part, but loved Scruffy's Revenge, especially "the look".

[Tricia]

Haha. Very nice. I probably have seen something like this coming, but didn't. Definitely interested to see who the next update will focus on.



Rule of CoolPretty much this.



Thog doesn't seem to be big on rational thoughtI think you could have stopped right here. ;)

[Kish]

Yay, Blackwing! Glad to see you have your priorities straight.

[willpell]

Also, I thumped my head when it looked like BW was dropping the belt to Roy, because I figured Thog would catch it and beat Roy down even harder. Of course, same net result....except at least Sir Scraggly's out of it. As a cat person, the idea of BOGS on a cat amuses the heck out of me, so I'll forgive that it's almost certainly not legal (I wouldn't let my players do it - a cat can't wear a belt! But my game doesn't run on Rule of Funny, at least not to this much of an extent.)

[DaggerPen]

Haven't read the whole thread yet, so someone may have beaten me to this, but am I the only one who saw "saved by the belt" and thought of the Belt of Gender-Changing?


Just keep pretty girls away from Thog! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0066.html)

[Gift Jeraff]

Am I the only person who thought of Elan's Belt of Charisma (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0675.html)? :smallredface:

[Lurkmoar]

Nice. Now we just have to see how Roy gets out of his predicament.

[t209]

Mr Scruffy must have the strength of heavy from team fortress2. (reference to Pow Ha Ha Taunt)

[greatscott]

Demiplane of Extremely Cruel Torture. :smallbiggrin:

Make that Demiplane of Extremely Cool Tartar! :smallbiggrin:

[Doug Lampert]

True. However, I don't think Mr. Scruffy is an ordinary House Cat. Recall that Mr. Scruffy also eviscerated Belkar's arena opponent. That is a feat that is almost impossible for a House Cat even on a double or triple critical hit (max damage for one hit is 1, three hits is 3 points, plus triple critical gets the cat to a whopping 5 points of damage). I suppose it's possible that Belkar's opponent only had 4 hp. Maybe he was only a commoner,

What MAYBE? His last words were "I was only 10 XP away from my second level of commoner". He is quite clearly stated to be a commoner 1, which gives him 1d4 HP, average of 2 which is what generic NPCs get even at level 1 (max HP at one is an elite feature). This is well within a cat's range.

[dps]

That's a one up on the peasant. Though, really it was deserved this time....


Huh?


Ijust realized that't the whole from earlier!

Uh, double Huh?

[Kish]

Huh?

"Smashing Sir Scraggly through the wall is both more impressive and more justified than when Mr. Scruffy killed the first-level commoner."


Uh, double Huh?
"I just realized that the hole in the wall which Sir Scraggly was propelled through is the hole from which came the chunk of stone with which Thog has been beating Roy."

[zimmerwald1915]

True. However, I don't think Mr. Scruffy is an ordinary House Cat. Recall that Mr. Scruffy also eviscerated Belkar's arena opponent. That is a feat that is almost impossible for a House Cat even on a double or triple critical hit (max damage for one hit is 1, three hits is 3 points, plus triple critical gets the cat to a whopping 5 points of damage). I suppose it's possible that Belkar's opponent only had 4 hp. Maybe he was only a commoner, but it still stretches the imagination that an ordinary House Cat just jumps in and eviscerates him. In fact, my impression was that everyone in the arena and in the OOTS was shocked. Certainly, the readship must've been surprised. Maybe they all chalk it up to a lucky hit, quote the rule of drama, and move on...
Belkar's opponent said out loud that he was a first-level commoner. Unmodified 3.5 housecats reliably beat 3.5 human commoner 1s in arena matches, perhaps not usually in one round but they do win, and Mr. Scruffy is an Animal Companion, a status which gives him nifty bonuses to Strength - that is, to to-hit (v. the opponent's likely less than 12 armor class) and to damage (dealt to the opponent's 1d4+Constitution modifier hit points). Plus, the guy's name was Evisceratus. It would be more surprising if Mr. Scruffy did not one-shot him.

EDIT: ninja'd


In this case, the wolf is an animal companion with extra HD (2+4 = 6, I'm guessing) and that makes it even more unbelievable that an ordinary House Cat takes him out in one round (Giant Strength buffed max damage on three successful hits is 2+2+3=7). Notice that the comic suggests off-panel chase scene but not off-panel fighting between between Mr. Scruffy and Sir Scraggly. I don't think Mr. Scruffy is an ordinary House Cat. I think the Belt of Giant Strength gave Mr. Scruffy the reassurance (boost in morale) that he needed to overcome his fear and fight back (you'd run too if you had an arrow sticking in your flank - probably from a ranger with favored enemy Mr. Scruffy). I also think rule of drama applies. That's my take.
What we saw was not Sir Scraggly getting knocked down to -10, or even necessarily negative, hit points. What we saw was him getting knocked several feet through a pre-existing hole in the wall. You are absolutely right that Mr. Scruffy probably did not accomplish this through mechanics: AFAIK the only mechanical way to produce this kind of bull rush effect and not actively push your target the entire way is with the Charging Minotaur maneuver or the Knockback feat (which requires Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, and Large size). Rule of Cool/Drama/Funny/Whatever is most certainly in effect. This doesn't however, require dredging up special powers inherant in Mr. Scruffy. It merely requires that the writer ignore the precise mechanics and probabilities for the sake of the story, something for which he is well-known.

[Red XIV]

But why does Thog blame Roy?
Because he's an idiot.

[greatscott]

But why does Thog blame Roy?

Suppose you went through life and figured out that every time you got "mad" about something, you ended up victorious in batte.

I would think you would develop a habit of getting "mad" a lot...any old thing would probably do...especially in combat!

[Valley]

Question is -- what did Mr. Scruffy wallop Sir Scraggly with?? :smallconfused:




First, his name is now Lord Scruffy. Second, he head butted Scraggly...well, cats do it all the time when they want to wake up somebody (and can't reach the shovel).
....
What?

Blackwing a crow or a raven? Either way, he is smart and, yes, likes shiny things.

[Sunken Valley]

Belkar won't have anything to do in the lobby...dun dun dun!

Quarr porting off like that is disturbing. Bet he and the fiends are going to start phase 2.

Really missing Durkon though :durkon::durkon::durkon: Hav'nae seen im in a year.

[DoctorJest]

All I can say is...

That was the first time I truly LOLed at a comic in quite some time.

[irenicObserver]

Anyone else see the comic title, flashback to a certain other belt that saved the day, and think "oh no. Here we go again?" I was pleasantly surprised, of course (as usual).

Exactly how I felt. Incidentally I'm waiting for the inevitable geekery questioning how much Str it would take for Scruffy to launch Scraggly through the wall like that, and so far into the arena.

[horngeek]

All I can say is...

That was the first time I truly LOLed at a comic in quite some time.

This. Oh, so much this. XD

[Asthix]

So much laughing.

Thog must have a level in bard with all this opportunistic plot riding.

[Acero]

Exactly how I felt. Incidentally I'm waiting for the inevitable geekery questioning how much Str it would take for Scruffy to launch Scraggly through the wall like that, and so far into the arena.

Don't give them the idea. :smalleek:

[Ricky S]

Wooo!!!! Go Mr scruffy, show the world what a savage damage animal you can be. I wish someone would take care of that arrow though. I cringe everytime I look at it.

[Wonton]

Only one thing I can say:

LOL :smallbiggrin:

[Gift Jeraff]

awww. Qarr said Z was a guy.Qarr already said Z was a guy. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0797.html) And so did Nale (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0044.html), Sabine (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0049.html), V (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0799.html), and The Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11094427&postcount=77). :smalltongue:

[The Pilgrim]

Hoooray the almighty Mr. Scruffy!!! Cat powa!!

[Canisius]

It was the perfect redirect.. I hadn't guessed Mr. Scruffy, but could see that the BOGS wasn't going to Roy.

Frankly, it was the only logical thing for Blackwing to do. At least the most advantageous. I doubt Tarquin would've allowed a magic item to be introduced to the fight, and as someone pointed out, all the other OOTS'ers would have gained no benefit. Plus, Mr Scruffy would've been dog-chow without it.

So we have a lot of dangling plot-lines and lots of room for Rich to be even awesomer

1. When Belkar sees his cat with an arrow sticking out of it, who will he turn his rage on?
2. Can Elan find Durkon and get Haley restored?
3. Classic dramatic battle between Thog and Roy - can Roy survive a raging barbarian?
4. When will the demon league come to get V? (I still think it would be funny if they showed up on the plane of Ranch Dressing, but as another reader pointed out they could just send hir back. Plus that's just too good of a card for Rich to play next)
5. I suspect Tarquin knows the Linear Guild is in the area. Also, count me as being in the camp of Tarquin being the conjurer they're looking for.

I get bummed about having to wait for new installments, but it's like the old-fashioned paper comic books or TV serials; you get to the end of the episode, there's a cliff-hanger and WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT? Join us next week..

Almost died from anticipation reading Kamandi back in the '70s for just that reason..

[Sarone]

That is so anticlimatic but awesome at the same time.

Kind of like the Wild, Wild West movie. Guy has vow of not causing harm to some one and a great shot, only to "miss" the bad guys but hit the bad guy's chair, causing it to become a variable in the fight between the bad guy and the good guy.

[Incom]

Of course, now the public wonders why there's a dog in the arena (and possibly a couple other animals with a magic item, one of which has a bolt through its chest)...

Haven't laughed so hard at OOTS for some time. d(^_^)b

Also, it's certainly a belt of Giant's Strength. Perhaps, you know, THE Giant. you know... in the playground?... eh, gotta save the A-material for the PCs, as Uncle Xykon always says

[Blaznak]

Go Go Giant Strength Kitty!

[Dr.Epic]

HULK SCRUFFY SMASH!!!

Best comic ever!:smallwink:

[shadowmage]

All I have to say is I had Mr. Scruffy in a game once. I wanted a familiar and kept bugging the DM about it. Finaly a half starved cat came running out of the In kitchen with a fish in his mouth. The cook chasing him calling "Come back here you scoundrel!" And so scoundrel was born. When ever I went looking for him he was in our packs eating out food and saved my bacon a couple of times. The most memorable was dropping from the second floor onto the head of a Black troll , this was Middle Earth Roleplaying that had converted over to Rolemaster, that had just broke in the wall of the Inn we were at. It was the same one I found him.He got an E crit on the troll and distracted him so our ranger could spear the troll and kill it.

[MoonCat]

Really missing Durkon though :durkon::durkon::durkon: Hav'nae seen im in a year.

Not yet. He last showed up in early December.

[Raistlin82]

Hahahaha! Totally got me, there. Well played, Giant! :smallbiggrin:

Poor Roy, though... :roy:

[veti]

It's also a good explanation for why Z sent V to such a silly plane.

Actually, I don't think it is. Why did Qarr/the IFCC choose that plane in particular? Because it's harmless and they wanted to protect their asset? Because it's obscure and hard to get back from (ranch elementals don't learn Plane Shift)? And why did they want her sent anywhere? Does Blackwing instinctively or telepathically know where she is? Will he tell Durkon? Is Thog, in fact, another of Tarquin's sons?

All these and more questions will probably not be answered in the next exciting episode, so stay tuned!

[WickedWizard17]

SERIOUSLY LOLAGE. GO MR (LORD) SCRUFFY! Plus it was good to see Roy :smallwink: I always thought somebody would bring Roy his sword or the Belt. I did think, pre-"Right Tool for the Job", that it would be invisible V. But go Blackwing . . . omfg I bet MR (LORD) SCRUFFY WILL COME AND he'll DEFEAT THOG, NOT ROY! LMFAO!

[ben-zayb]

BW inherited the half-magpie (or maybe half-crow?) template, it seems. :smallamused:
Very awesome comic, as always. :smallwink:

[McDouggal]

Am I the only person who thought of Elan's Belt of Charisma (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0675.html)? :smallredface:

No, but I discarded the idea out of hand when I thought that it would have to be really unuseful unless used for an illusion.

EDIT: Woohoo! Halfling in the playground!

[Psyren]

1) Where the hell is Durkon.
2) I'm so over Thog now, he needs to die :-P
3) GO SCRUFFY!


Also, if it wasn't clear enough that the IFCC want V's soul while he's alive, Qarr's deception clinches it.

[Romanes eunt do]

:elan::elan::elan: Giant, you rock.

[HUMVEE Driver]

Aaaaand the Roy/Thog seesaw continues.

[Tobimaro]

So, will Mr. Scruffy now be able to take on Thog? The fight of the century is ON! :smallbiggrin:

[Mutant Sheep]

Not yet. He last showed up in early December.

Yes. December of last year.:smallfrown: Have people shipped Blackwing and Qarr yet? Get TO IT people!

[MoonCat]

Yes. December of last year.:smallfrown: Have people shipped Blackwing and Qarr yet? Get TO IT people!

Yes, but it isn't the December of this year yet. It hasn't been a year yet.

[Ekul]

Maybe Mr. Scruffy is a d2 Crusader?

I kid, I kid.

Roy's also very cool in this strip, breaking rocks with his bare hands, then him starting to win the grapple. He may win this on his own!

[ricorum]

That was... unexpected.

[A Weeping Angel]

Good strip, though the thing that annoyed me in rereading was Thog's assumption that "Talky Man" had something to do with the puppy falling from somewhere above them when they were in the midst of battle and Roy was completely occupied. I know Thog isn't the brightest but still seemed like a leap too far, even for him.

[Gamgee]

Scruffy's expressions when it gets the belt and then turns back to the dog are just priceless.
How as an animal did it know the belt increased its strength? It looked right at it... knew what it was. Turned around and kicked ass. Proof Mr. Scruffy isn't just a cat.

[fibonacciseries]

I think that from now on, Mr. Scruffy should be known as the Scruffy Shoeless God of War.

[Shatteredtower]

Laughed so hard I cried.

The only thing that makes this ending sweeter is imagining Miko looking on from her afterlife with a bucket of popcorn at hand.

[Dr.Epic]

You all know you want to see the kitty continue to smack around creatures twice its size. Plus, Roy's stats are good enough already. He's the one guy in the party with no dump stats.

[Esprit15]

Hm, maybe he could have a collar made out of it.

[Anarion]

Others have already noted this, but page 2 panels 6, 7, and 8 (showing Mr. Scruffy's facial expressions as he gets the belt) are extremely well done. They're wordless, but they are extremely clear and get across Mr. Scruffy's thoughts perfectly. Elegant panels, and they remind me that the Giant has gotten really good that this.

I don't actually think that Thog got less green though. It seems more like dust was obscuring him in the panel where Roy is starting to win, since he is still dark green in the third from last panel when both Thog and Roy are confused. However, I do think that Thog's rage has to be somewhat close to running out. Also, Thog grappling Roy is good at disabling him, but I don't think Thog will be able to do very much damage while he's tackling Roy due to the way that grappling works.

Oh, and I don't find the "TALKY MAN HURT PUPPY" line unbelievable at all. The last time Thog raged (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html), he believed Elan's statements that metal prison bars ate all of Nale's breadcrumbs and punched a clown.

[Joe22c]

F@#$ Mr. Scruffy, no one touches the dog!

[Nimrod's Son]

Roy's also very cool in this strip, breaking rocks with his bare hands
Roy swings another rock up into the one Thog is holding, and that's what breaks it. He doesn't break anything with his bare hands.

[whitelaughter]

Anyone else see the comic title, flashback to a certain other belt that saved the day, and think "oh no. Here we go again?"
Yes, Roy being saved by Thog's fear of cooties did spring to mind - especially given Blackwing is unlikely to have a reliable way of detecting the properties of magical items.
This was better though.

Worth noting that there is now an exit from the Arena - if Roy flees, he'll have access to the pile of treasure and hopefully a weapon. (Grappling a raging barbarian? bad choice. Mind you, the other choices - flee from a faster moving opponent, punching an opponent with DR, trying to Trip a stronger opponent - were almost as bad. Best option I could see was grabbing the arrows that were fired as warning shots and using those to stab Thog).


Incidentally I'm waiting for the inevitable geekery questioning how much Str it would take for Scruffy to launch Scraggly through the wall like that, and so far into the arena.
Well, it's a bull rush. Scruffy is a size category smaller than Scraggly(-4), and Scraggly is on 4 legs(another -4), so Scruffy has -8 to his roll. However, it's a contest: the outside option is Scruffy rolling a 20 and Scraggly rolling a 1. Scruffy needs to win by 5 points for every square pushed back past the first - we can see the hole in the 4th last panel, one column over: assume a standard spacing of 10' plus 5' for the column,plus 5' for going through the wall: Scruffy needs to win by 15. (Scraggly doesn't seem to have gone far into the arena, so no extra penalty).
Assuming that the strength adjustments for their owning characters cancels out, then Scruffy is on a base str ajustment of -4 vs Scraggly of +2:
20 -8 -15 -4 +belt vs 1 +2.
The belt needs to grant a bonus of +10, ie +16 Strength, or nearly three times what 3.5 belts are capable of.

However if the belt was from a previous edition, this wouldn't be a problem as they gave the wearer a specific Strength, rather than a flat increase. Even the weakest belt, a belt of Hill Giant Strength, would increase Scruffy's Strength to 19, exactly what is required. Stronger belts make the result less improbable.

[the_tick_rules]

Odd choice mr. bird. But mr scruffy probably just went up a level.

[moopie]

A belt of giant strength gives a cat between 7 and 9 strength. Now, assuming Belkar has 12 levels of ranger, that makes the cat between 9 and 11 strength. It's not throwing a wolf through a wall.
He wasn't launched through a wall, he was launched through a hole in the wall. Thog ripped that wall off in #796 (hole is visible in #797).

[Shoelessgdowar]

I present the missing factor that people have overlooked... Mr. Scruffy has something else going for him that, while not traditional for most cat companions, is not uncommon for many companion animals... as they gain HD from the Ranger/Druid... they gain size categories, which is more obvious when you look at Mr. Scruffy beside Sir Scraggly or Belkar... Mr. Scruffy isn't Tiny... he's small or perhaps even medium (because unless Yukyuk was under level 6, Sir Scraggly also should have grown to Large, which means Mr. Scruffy being a size category smaller then a Large Wolf, is a Medium Cat <DANG!!!> which also make sense with the 6HD bonus for being Belkar's companion, as usually every 2-3HD is a Size category) ... he's a size category or two larger, which means he gained +4 to strength for going from tiny to small and then possible +8 from small to medium, that is unaccounted for... If Mr. Scruffy is medium that is 3(base cat str)+6(Companion Bonus Str)+4(Tiny to small)+8(small to medium)+6(Girdle of Giant Str), for a grand total of 27... yes, 27 str should be enough to accept that knockback :) and even if we presume for some reason he's only small and Sir Scraggly is only Medium, then that is a 19 str, which is still really good.

[Fairy Lisa]

Love Blackwing in this comic. Good job helping the team, you deserve a shiny. :smallsmile:

[Flash1191]

I present the missing factor that people have overlooked... Mr. Scruffy has something else going for him that, while not traditional for most cat companions, is not uncommon for many companion animals... as they gain HD from the Ranger/Druid... they gain size categories, which is more obvious when you look at Mr. Scruffy beside Sir Scraggly or Belkar... Mr. Scruffy isn't Tiny... he's small or perhaps even medium (because unless Yukyuk was under level 6, Sir Scraggly also should have grown to Large, which means Mr. Scruffy being a size category smaller then a Large Wolf, is a Medium Cat <DANG!!!> which also make sense with the 6HD bonus for being Belkar's companion, as usually every 2-3HD is a Size category) ... he's a size category or two larger, which means he gained +4 to strength for going from tiny to small and then possible +8 from small to medium, that is unaccounted for... If Mr. Scruffy is medium that is 3(base cat str)+6(Companion Bonus Str)+4(Tiny to small)+8(small to medium)+6(Girdle of Giant Str), for a grand total of 27... yes, 27 str should be enough to accept that knockback :) and even if we presume for some reason he's only small and Sir Scraggly is only Medium, then that is a 19 str, which is still really good.

You're coming to the conclusion that the housecat that is significantly smaller than Belkar (who is definitely Small) has become Medium sized? And that it has an unmodified Str of 21? That seems a little off to me.

[KoboldRevenge]

Dang the dog is still alive. You'd think it'd die from a giant punch. Now Scruffy just needs to woo thog then whoop his butt.:smallamused:

[Killer Angel]

You're coming to the conclusion that the housecat that is significantly smaller than Belkar (who is definitely Small) has become Medium sized? And that it has an unmodified Str of 21? That seems a little off to me.

Clearly Mr. Scruffy gained those bonuses, but he remained small 'cause he's smart and keeps a low profile. :smalltongue:

[factotum]

Plus, Roy's stats are good enough already. He's the one guy in the party with no dump stats.

Except Roy is still in a hand-to-hand fight with somebody stronger than he is, and it really doesn't matter how good his mental stats are in that situation!

[factotum]

Good strip, though the thing that annoyed me in rereading was Thog's assumption that "Talky Man" had something to do with the puppy falling from somewhere above them when they were in the midst of battle and Roy was completely occupied. I know Thog isn't the brightest but still seemed like a leap too far, even for him.

Thog is angry (probably Raging, in fact)--it would be entirely natural for him to associate anything bad that happens with the current object of his anger, in this case Roy. I'm sure we've all been in situations where we've been so angry that we've been actively unpleasant to someone who has nothing to do with the original cause of our anger.

*looks around*...Just me, then? I'll get me coat. :smallsmile:

[Dr.Epic]

Except Roy is still in a hand-to-hand fight with somebody stronger than he is, and it really doesn't matter how good his mental stats are in that situation!

Then maybe he should mutliclass or prestige to something that takes advantage of them.

[KoboldRevenge]

Yeah that's where I saw that going. Though the joke does seem like it could get kinda old...

[Quild]

Qarr already said Z was a guy. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0797.html) And so did Nale (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0044.html), Sabine (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0049.html), V (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0799.html), and The Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11094427&postcount=77). :smalltongue:

Well, isn't Z's gender supposed to be clearly known? By opposition to an unknown gender. Nale's idea.

[dtilque]

Incidentally I'm waiting for the inevitable geekery questioning how much Str it would take for Scruffy to launch Scraggly through the wall like that, and so far into the arena.

This post shows two things:

1. You haven't read any of this thread before posting to it.

2. You underestimate the geekery of the people who post here. At least half a dozen of them already discussed that very thing before you posted.

BTW, just in case you didn't notice, that hole preexisted before this strip. Thog made it when he grabbed a hunk of wall to clobber Roy with. Some time back I predicted that hole would be a factor in the future, although I had a less humorous idea of how.

I also suggested that the bag of holding dropped by Haley might contain Roy's stuff (I wasn't the only one to predict this, though) and that might be a factor as well. It turns out they both came true in the same strip. (It's late a night, so forgive me for not hunting down the post where I made these predictions.)


As far as Thog deRaging, he certainly was. Look at the sequence of the last panel of page 1 and the 2nd and 4th panels of page 2. It goes from Thog dominating in the struggle to Roy dominating. And the expression on Thog's face in the last of those three panels is clearly not his rage face. The Giant is obviously showing that Thog is weakening and his rage is going away. He couldn't have made it more obvious without 200-foot-tall flaming letters.

As far as what happens next, well, yes, the Scruffinator may go into the area and kick Thog's butt. After he finishes off the dog, of course. Or perhaps he retrieves Roy's sword and gets that to Roy. But that's not very funny, so no doubt something else will happen.

[Zorgophlats]

Well, isn't Z's gender supposed to be clearly known? By opposition to an unknown gender. Nale's idea.

Reread the post. Z (dark elf) has been stated to be male. V (purple elf) is ambiguous.

Just sayin'.

And about Thog de-rageing / re-rageing. If the panel in question is to be taken as proof, then Roy is also de-rageing at the same time. Note that his color is lightening as well. Since we know that Roy doesn't have the Rage ability, that leads to the conclusion that we are seeing a full panel of dust and a visible line of dust at the same time.

Just considerin' all the factors.

Edit:

As far as Thog deRaging, he certainly was. Look at the sequence of the last panel of page 1 and the 2nd and 4th panels of page 2. It goes from Thog dominating in the struggle to Roy dominating. And the expression on Thog's face in the last of those three panels is clearly not his rage face. The Giant is obviously showing that Thog is weakening and his rage is going away. He couldn't have made it more obvious without 200-foot-tall flaming letters.Just because Thog is losing a contest of strength doesn't mean he is losing his Rage as well. The facial expressions were to show that he was losing that contest. Roy was distracted and lost what leverage he had, giving Thog the chance to dominate the contest.

[Dr.Epic]

Yeah that's where I saw that going. Though the joke does seem like it could get kinda old...

How could an ultra strong tiny kitty cat hurling guys through stone walls ever get old?:smallwink:

It'll make Belkar more arrogant about him and his (supposed) animal companion. Also, it might finally be a wake up call to Roy he needs to enter a class that'll let him take advantage of his other good stats and not rely on just his strength score to defeat his enemies which gets quite difficult to do at higher levels as just a straight up fighter.

[Italian Hippy]

This comic unfortunately doesn't support the "2nd edition Belt of Giant Strength, house-ruled in": http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0687.html

It's too bad. I'd have really loved to see a STR 24 Mr. Scruffy :D

I have another question, though. In this comic ( http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0800.html ) we can see that the Kobold has some kind of enchantment on his crossbow bolts that makes them disappear from the body of the enemy he just shot and auto-load themselves on the crossbows. How come the dart in Scruffy's body didn't disappear?

I don't mind it too much, though. This is bound to play a real number on Belkar's already short fuse, and I can't wait to see him unleash enough violence to make Thog look like a helpless toddler. After all, that's what I would have done if someone had hurt *my* cat! :D

[Objection]

When I first saw the title of this strip, my first thought was the belt of gender changing.

[Zorgophlats]

I have another question, though. In this comic ( http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0800.html ) we can see that the Kobold has some kind of enchantment on his crossbow bolts that makes them disappear from the body of the enemy he just shot and auto-load themselves on the crossbows. How come the dart in Scruffy's body didn't disappear?
I'm not into DnD, but my assumption was that the "magic" bolts were because of V. Either they were available in the loot bag (possibly Haleys') or the bolts themselves were magic projectiles that V cast. In GURPS (my system of choice) there is such a spell.

[Killer Angel]

When I first saw the title of this strip, my first thought was the belt of gender changing.

It appears (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213474) you're not the only one...

[bothi73]

Yeah that's where I saw that going. Though the joke does seem like it could get kinda old...

Dude, it wouldnt even be a joke.

It would just be.... Awesome.


I agree with make a collar out of it.

Even though some big-name-thing will probably destroy it later on.

[Gnoman]

This comic unfortunately doesn't support the "2nd edition Belt of Giant Strength, house-ruled in": http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0687.html


Not neccessarily. Roy asked, but he was never answered.

[Shoelessgdowar]

When I first saw the title of this strip, my first thought was the belt of gender changing.

OBJECTION!!! Oh, wait, that is just your name... thinking this is wrong, like a suicidal Phoenix... it make sense, but that doesn't make it right, so I say it is not just wrong... it is Suicidal Phoenix Wrong!!!"

[Jabber64]

Quite ingenious. It was pure gold when the belt of giant strength landed, of all things, on Mr Scruffy. When followed by Sir Scraggly having the tables turned on him, it became priceless.

I doubt Roy will choose to run through the hole that Sir Scraggly just came in. Remember that earlier on, he mentioned how he had to put on a show for Tarquin. He wouldn't want to jeopardize that by breaking the rules. Though, his armour is clearly visible in the stack and would turn the tide for him, as mentioned in one of the earlier strip discussions.

Then again, everyone's probably wondering what's up with the dog landing in the arena like that. Sure, Thog made the hole earlier on, but you still don't quite expect big dogs like that to go sailing into the arena (thrown unceremoniously in fact).

[Tricia]

Good strip, though the thing that annoyed me in rereading was Thog's assumption that "Talky Man" had something to do with the puppy falling from somewhere above them when they were in the midst of battle and Roy was completely occupied. I know Thog isn't the brightest but still seemed like a leap too far, even for him.Well, Thog knows it wasn't him, and Roy's the only other one around. Who else could it have been? :D

[Phishfood]

All is explained!

Scruffy, YOU can be the new two-weapon-fighting murderer!

Why would he limit himself to 2? He has 5 on each foot, he's a cat!

He also has the special cat-only ability "jump into crotch".

Cat owners know what I'm talking about.

<edit>

Someone commented on cats waking people up with a shovel....
they prefer baseball bats.
http://www.simonscat.com/Films/Cat-Man-Do/

[Jabber64]

Just noticed something else; look how the belt appears on Mr Scruffy. It covers the arrow. In comic 792, the arrow launches into Mr Scruffy perpendicularly (or at least close to perpendicularly). Now, why would the belt cover the arrow, unless it was draped diagonally across Mr Scruffy. I doubt that would happen, since it was dropped on him from a height.

I'm aware that this is nitpicking, and it doesn't really change the plot (i.e. make it weaker or anything), but it just bothers me :smallsigh: Don't get me wrong, I still appreciate the ingenuity of this strip!

[Obrysii]

Not gonna lie, was having a bad morning and #803 turned it around. All of it was awesome.

[KillianHawkeye]

Except Roy is still in a hand-to-hand fight with somebody stronger than he is, and it really doesn't matter how good his mental stats are in that situation!
Then maybe he should mutliclass or prestige to something that takes advantage of them.

What, in the middle of combat? :smallconfused:

[Dr.Epic]

What, in the middle of combat? :smallconfused:

No, but it'll be a lesson that maybe he should have.

[DougTheHead]

Not shown: About 800 individual grappling actions between Roy and Thog.

Also, Roy might be able to wait out Thog's rage if Thog tries strangling him. That will take a while, and it will take around 2 minutes for Roy to pass out from oxygen loss, so there's a chance Thog will lose his rage before he's able to choke Roy out.

[Rastaban]

Yes, loved this strip. Mr. Scruffy Fighting!

[rewinn]

Just noticed something else; look how the belt appears on Mr Scruffy. It covers the arrow. In comic 792, the arrow launches into Mr Scruffy perpendicularly (or at least close to perpendicularly). Now, why would the belt cover the arrow, unless it was draped diagonally across Mr Scruffy. I doubt that would happen, since it was dropped on him from a height.


Apparently, in OOTSverse, magic belts have a slap bracelet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slap_bracelet) feature. After all, Mr. Scruffy doesn't have opposable thumbs so working the buckle non-magically would be difficult. But nothing in the rules for magic belts requires the wearer to be able to buckle the belt, so obvious there is some sort of self-latching feature.

[rewinn]

If the ultimate battle with Xykon, imagine the tactical value of hurling a giant-strength kitty onto his head!!!!!

[cc_kizz]

I was afraid of where the belt was going to land. Roy and Thog were pretty close together. That was a great comic. :-)

[Wanda V'Orcus]

Hm, maybe he could have a collar made out of it.

Wot 'e said!!

:smallbiggrin:

Cheers, JohnH / Wanda

[Metahuman1]

If the ultimate battle with Xykon, imagine the tactical value of hurling a giant-strength kitty onto his head!!!!!

I suddenly have this image of the "YOU! BROKE! MY! SWORD!" moment on steroids. :smallbiggrin:

[ArcaneSaint]

I suddenly have this image of the "YOU! BROKE! MY! SWORD!" moment on steroids. :smallbiggrin:

You mean like "YOU! HAZ! MY! CHEEZBURGER!"?
...
On second thought, no, mr. Scruffy would use correct spelling and sentence structure. And he likes tuna more.
...
On third thought, no, mr. Scruffy doesn't need words to express anything, his claws can do the talking! It's as the saying goes: One claw causes more than a thousand screams. Um, I think I got that wrong. :smalleek:

[Snails]

Odd choice mr. bird. But mr scruffy probably just went up a level.

Blackwing correctly ascertained Mr. Scruffy was the Order member most unfairly outmatched. While that may not be the most optimal strategic choice, it makes a lot of tactical sense -- that is at least par for members of this adventuring party.

[Snails]

By the letter of the law, Animal Companions do not actually increase in size with gained HD. One can gain larger ACs though.

However, most DMs would allow you to say your Wolf companion "grew up" into a Dire Wolf at an appropriate time, FREX.

That said, I agree it is plausible that Mr. Scruffy may be sized Small, rather than Tiny, while still appearing obviously smaller than Belkar himself.

[Snails]

Not neccessarily. Roy asked, but he was never answered.

Interesting point.

Taken literally, the Belt promises to raise Roy's strength score to 25 or higher, as that is the nominal strength of a Hill Giant. As it is unlikely that Roy's natural Str is higher than 20, the belt is +6 or "somehow better".

I think the Giant is being ambiguous here entirely on purpose. The surprisingly strong cat is a follow-on gag, implying that it may really be a Belt of Fire Giant Strength or something similar.

[Hydro]

As with a lot of the giant's gags, I think the extended delivery made it too predictable. Could have been shorter and funnier; but then, what would he have done with the rest of the strip?

[mrmcfatty]

well here is a different opinion of things.

We dont actually see Mr(lord, master, god, etc :tongue:) Scruffy attack sir scraggly. Maybe it was belkar? he could have put on the belt off panel, or just raged and attacked?

of course i assume it was the cat, but this could be a new twist.

[Dr.Epic]

If the ultimate battle with Xykon, imagine the tactical value of hurling a giant-strength kitty onto his head!!!!!

Why stop at Xykon? Kitty could take on the Snarl alone.:smallwink:

[Scrynor]

Anyone else think that the next target of IFCCs plans will be Durkon and it will be soon?

It all just seems too convenient.
We haven't seen Durkon in forever.
Durkon has been getting all chummy with an evil (is that for sure?) cleric.
We know it takes both an arcane and a divine caster to control the gates.
Qarr had to report in to the IFCC *right* when V was out of the picture.

I don't buy that sending V to Ranch land was to keep hir safe. V was already safe - s/he'd won. It seems more like the IFCC needed hir safe for later but also out of the way right now because V has the power to prevent the next phase of their plan.

Wild speculation perhaps...

[Wanda V'Orcus]

Anyone else think that the next target of IFCCs plans will be Durkon and it will be soon?

It all just seems too convenient.
We haven't seen Durkon in forever.
Durkon has been getting all chummy with an evil (is that for sure?) cleric.
We know it takes both an arcane and a divine caster to control the gates.
Qarr had to report in to the IFCC *right* when V was out of the picture.

I don't buy that sending V to Ranch land was to keep hir safe. V was already safe - s/he'd won. It seems more like the IFCC needed hir safe for later but also out of the way right now because V has the power to prevent the next phase of their plan.

Wild speculation perhaps...

I don't know that Malak's alignment has been definitively established as evil; myself, I'd go more for Lawful Netural, but that's just me.

But you may be on to something there -- perhaps Malak's resemblance to Emperor Palpatine is more than just a coincidence?? :smallconfused:

Cheers, JohnH / Wanda

[Burner28]

Liked this strip.:smallsmile:

[rbetieh]

Anyone else think that the next target of IFCCs plans will be Durkon and it will be soon?

It all just seems too convenient.
We haven't seen Durkon in forever.
Durkon has been getting all chummy with an evil (is that for sure?) cleric.
We know it takes both an arcane and a divine caster to control the gates.
Qarr had to report in to the IFCC *right* when V was out of the picture.

I don't buy that sending V to Ranch land was to keep hir safe. V was already safe - s/he'd won. It seems more like the IFCC needed hir safe for later but also out of the way right now because V has the power to prevent the next phase of their plan.

Wild speculation perhaps...

Maybe...the IFCC 'pawns' have done two things:
1) Sabine most likely got Nale and Linear Guild to EoB instead of another desert neighboring region
2) Qarr got Z back specifically so that Z would dump V in the ranch-dressing plane

It looks like a targeted effort to move / remove pieces. I figure they have some advanced information on the wherabouts of Xykon and his proximity to Girards gate, and are setting out to even-out the battle. The wrentch in their machine, then would appear to be Tarquin. He could tip the scales one way or the other.

[SowZ]

Anyone else notice that, just to get scruffys strength up to any sort of positive modifier, that belt is at least a +7 Str. And I think Mr. Scruffy just showed some superhuman strength, there. That belt? I'm guessing +10, at least. Scruffy could easily be toting 100k gold on his back. That is an expensive collar!

[Aurabolt]

Blackwing correctly ascertained Mr. Scruffy was the Order member most unfairly outmatched. While that may not be the most optimal strategic choice, it makes a lot of tactical sense -- that is at least par for members of this adventuring party.

You have to be kidding me. Let's break it down, why not?

Elan: Level-Drained against a brother of non-weakened level, correct? Has likely lost his highest cadre of spells, which he seems to have prepped to be mainly restorative. He can't stand a prolonged fight with Nale, especially if Sabine returns in full-on raging Succubus mode with all those lovely spell-like abilities.

Haley and V: Incapaciated.

Belkar: Who the hell knows, but likely just to cause trouble and be Evil. Then again, that's what I expect from him. But at the moment, not engaged with an opponent.

Roy: Is in a fight with a RAGING barbarian in single combat, without a proficient weapon. Therefore, he can only do subdual and those extra hit points are really weighing to bear on the freak. Grapple Checks are in Thog's favor, and that Potion's effects-which I assume was Cure Critical Wounds-are slowly being caught up.

In this case, the BEST tactical option was Roy, and most players know that. It was certainly a cool fake-out, but now there's a good chance Roy may be killed before the rounds allow him to get the Belt.

Simply put, Roy needs to break the grapple, and he simply cannot do enough damage afterwards against Thog without it, even if its non-lethal. There's a possible chance that Thog may have run over his temporary hit points that he falls after he breaks free of the rage, but I doubt its ending anytime soon.

Mr.Scruffy could have kept running as the speed differential between that and a dog is in the animal's favor. Eventually could have tried Hide or Move Silently to get away.

And I'll be fair; Elan could technically use the belt too. It would be a consistent way to outpace Nale in physical damage before Sabine shows up.

[Dr.Epic]

That is an expensive collar!

And it doesn't even change your gender.:smallwink:

[Steward]

Anyone else notice that, just to get scruffys strength up to any sort of positive modifier, that belt is at least a +7 Str. And I think Mr. Scruffy just showed some superhuman strength, there. That belt? I'm guessing +10, at least. Scruffy could easily be toting 100k gold on his back. That is an expensive collar!

Do you think that the fact that he's Belkar's animal companion helps at all here too?

[SowZ]

Do you think that the fact that he's Belkar's animal companion helps at all here too?

Yeah, it brings the strength up to 5 instead of 3.


And it doesn't even change your gender.:smallwink:

We don't know what it does to animal gender, though... Are we even positive Mr. Scruffy is male?!?

[Shoelessgdowar]

You have to be kidding me. Let's break it down, why not?

Elan: Level-Drained against a brother of non-weakened level, correct? Has likely lost his highest cadre of spells, which he seems to have prepped to be mainly restorative. He can't stand a prolonged fight with Nale, especially if Sabine returns in full-on raging Succubus mode with all those lovely spell-like abilities.

Haley and V: Incapaciated.

Belkar: Who the hell knows, but likely just to cause trouble and be Evil. Then again, that's what I expect from him. But at the moment, not engaged with an opponent.

Roy: Is in a fight with a RAGING barbarian in single combat, without a proficient weapon. Therefore, he can only do subdual and those extra hit points are really weighing to bear on the freak. Grapple Checks are in Thog's favor, and that Potion's effects-which I assume was Cure Critical Wounds-are slowly being caught up.

In this case, the BEST tactical option was Roy, and most players know that. It was certainly a cool fake-out, but now there's a good chance Roy may be killed before the rounds allow him to get the Belt.

Simply put, Roy needs to break the grapple, and he simply cannot do enough damage afterwards against Thog without it, even if its non-lethal. There's a possible chance that Thog may have run over his temporary hit points that he falls after he breaks free of the rage, but I doubt its ending anytime soon.

Mr.Scruffy could have kept running as the speed differential between that and a dog is in the animal's favor. Eventually could have tried Hide or Move Silently to get away.

And I'll be fair; Elan could technically use the belt too. It would be a consistent way to outpace Nale in physical damage before Sabine shows up.

Sabine went the wrong way, and Nale is busy having to deal with being his father's son and looking like his brother... Elan as far as we know is not only safe along with Haley, but with Elan, Haley, Belkar, V, and Durkon all not in combat, the only choices were the injured, bleeding cat being followed by the bigger, stronger, able to track by scent wolf which negates any hide/move silently the injured cat has, or the decently healthy (remember he took Red's potion and impaired Thog with the potions vial) Fighter who is facing an injured Barbarian who has to be running short on Rage rounds, and NEEDS to stretch the fight... Blackwing had really only three choices, give Mr. Scruffy the belt, or use the belt himself to repack the bag of holding and take it to Haley and Elan, or take the bag to Durkon who would know the only way that bag would not be in Miss Haley's possession is if something really bad was happening. Blackwing made the best choice as it allowed another LG member to be eliminated: Z (Arrested Again), Qarr (Reporting in), Yukyuk (Sent to the Ranch... Dressing Plane), Sabine (Temporarily Lost on a Wild Goof Chase), Nale (Getting nailed in the bad way by his dad's scorned lover... and Hell Planes have no Furies as vicious as a Woman Scorned), Thog (Locked up in a struggle to keep the Arena Fights Ratings up... That mean he's locked in some kind of Ratings Battle?), so only Durkon's Opposite (yet to be seen) and Sir Scraggly were left to eliminate... Good Choice Blackwing, eliminate the evil you know.

[rbetieh]

Not to put a damper on this "who should bw have helped" argument (insert I lied guy) but Elan is not an option since he is at the palace, not the arena. Also, last time BW was able to see Roy, he was winning. Readers have more perspective than actors.

[Scrynor]

Also, V is supposed to be looking out for Mr. Scruffy!

Why does everyone keep overlooking this? Helping mr. Scruffy helps the Order, helps fulfill Blackwing's master's responsibilities in hir absence, and helps protect Blackwing's master from the reprecussions of an enraged Belkar.

[tyckspoon]

Anyone else notice that, just to get scruffys strength up to any sort of positive modifier, that belt is at least a +7 Str. And I think Mr. Scruffy just showed some superhuman strength, there. That belt? I'm guessing +10, at least. Scruffy could easily be toting 100k gold on his back. That is an expensive collar!

Worse- +8 and above hits the Epic items, which have an arbitrary x10 multiplier on their price. If the belt really were that powerful, it'd be worth as much and probably more than the entire pile of treasure it was pulled out of..

Or maybe it's an older-edition relic they found somewhere; the 2nd Ed Belt of Giant Strength actually just gave you the Strength score of a Giant. They came in variants like Belt of Giant's Strength (Hill), (Frost), (Fire) and so on.

[Fargazer]

You mean like "YOU! HAZ! MY! CHEEZBURGER!"?
...
On second thought, no, mr. Scruffy would use correct spelling and sentence structure. And he likes tuna more.
...
On third thought, no, mr. Scruffy doesn't need words to express anything, his claws can do the talking! It's as the saying goes: One claw causes more than a thousand screams. Um, I think I got that wrong. :smalleek:

He's in ur cassel

advizin ur king

[NerfTW]

No. The wolf was sent through an already existing hole in the wall. Notice no rocks or anything flying along with him. The throwing of the wolf as far as he did is artistic license, Scruffy isn't suddenly super-kitty. There's no reason he needed massive strength, just enough to pick up and throw a wolf who wasn't expecting it.

As a cat and an animal companion, his main skill is dexterity and sneaking around. Not punching things. You're trading making your main fighter even more powerful to get a cat that can carry things. Not really a good trade off.

[Snails]

You have to be kidding me. Let's break it down, why not?

Obviously, I am being somewhat tongue in cheek.

But seriously, from the "bird's eye view" Roy is merely likely to get beaten to death. Mr. Scruffy in is genuine danger of being devoured.

Is it crazy for Blackwing to consider the kitty's problem greater?

And even if Roy were to prevail with assistance of the Belt, he is no position to assist anyone else. Roy rather astutely decided that his own effort is best spent keeping Tarquin's attention while everyone else work on the Linear Guild.

[Blisstake]

No, but it'll be a lesson that maybe he should have.

Spoiler for going off topic

Order of the Stick is really against optimization. If your entire self was composed of statistics, class levels, skills, and feats, then people would have devoted their lives to figuring out what the optimal combination of them would be. Obviously, this isn't true, which is why not everyone in the world has the exact same build.

Anyway, there isn't really anything he could multiclass into that would make sense for his character (which, in this story, is the most important factor - fitting the character becomes more important than being optimal). He explained why he doesn't want to be a wizard or cleric, and he really is a straight fighter all the way. As for presitge classes, the only melee combat oriented one I can think of that uses a mental statistic is Duelist, which isn't really a good idea for him (and he probably doesn't qualify for). The Order of the Stick generally sticks with core, and it wouldn't make that much sense for a non-core class to be introduced with no context at all.

Sorry to go on an off-topic rant about this, but it really annoys me when people fault the Order of the Stick for not being optimized.

[Mutant Sheep]

Spoiler for going off topic

Order of the Stick is really against optimization. If your entire self was composed of statistics, class levels, skills, and feats, then people would have devoted their lives to figuring out what the optimal combination of them would be. Obviously, this isn't true, which is why not everyone in the world has the exact same build.

Anyway, there isn't really anything he could multiclass into that would make sense for his character (which, in this story, is the most important factor - fitting the character becomes more important than being optimal). He explained why he doesn't want to be a wizard or cleric, and he really is a straight fighter all the way. As for presitge classes, the only melee combat oriented one I can think of that uses a mental statistic is Duelist, which isn't really a good idea for him (and he probably doesn't qualify for). The Order of the Stick generally sticks with core, and it wouldn't make that much sense for a non-core class to be introduced with no context at all.

Sorry to go on an off-topic rant about this, but it really annoys me when people fault the Order of the Stick for not being optimized.

He could still learn a lesson about how being a single class fighter to show your dad that it works doesn't actually HELP you when trying to save the multi-verse.:smallannoyed: If Xykon wasn't multi-verse threatening, he wouldn't be doing this blood oath crap his father wants him to do. And he is a single class fighter because of his father. Blah blah I am terrible at trying to say that it would be development and could lead into a nice lesson about how class=/ character, which is something Roy denies and embraces at the same time.
Tl:dr- I suck at explaining things, get the Phantasm to do it.

[SowZ]

No. The wolf was sent through an already existing hole in the wall. Notice no rocks or anything flying along with him. The throwing of the wolf as far as he did is artistic license, Scruffy isn't suddenly super-kitty. There's no reason he needed massive strength, just enough to pick up and throw a wolf who wasn't expecting it.

As a cat and an animal companion, his main skill is dexterity and sneaking around. Not punching things. You're trading making your main fighter even more powerful to get a cat that can carry things. Not really a good trade off.

My point is that someone capable of throwing a wolf so far probably has at least a positive strength mod, even if it is only twelve. He could have just rolled a 20 for his throw check, sure, but there is still a limit on how much a certain strength can lift/throw even with 20. I suppose scruffy could have an above average strength for a cat, (4 instead of three,) and with the plus two Str. from being Belkar's animal the belt would only need to be +6 to give Scruffy 12 Strength.


Spoiler for going off topic

Order of the Stick is really against optimization. If your entire self was composed of statistics, class levels, skills, and feats, then people would have devoted their lives to figuring out what the optimal combination of them would be. Obviously, this isn't true, which is why not everyone in the world has the exact same build.

Anyway, there isn't really anything he could multiclass into that would make sense for his character (which, in this story, is the most important factor - fitting the character becomes more important than being optimal). He explained why he doesn't want to be a wizard or cleric, and he really is a straight fighter all the way. As for presitge classes, the only melee combat oriented one I can think of that uses a mental statistic is Duelist, which isn't really a good idea for him (and he probably doesn't qualify for). The Order of the Stick generally sticks with core, and it wouldn't make that much sense for a non-core class to be introduced with no context at all.

Sorry to go on an off-topic rant about this, but it really annoys me when people fault the Order of the Stick for not being optimized.

I'll assume you mean non-magical melee fighter. One word. Warblade.

[NerfTW]

My point is that someone capable of throwing a wolf so far probably has at least a positive strength mod, even if it is only twelve. He could have just rolled a 20 for his throw check, sure, but there is still a limit on how much a certain strength can lift/throw even with 20.

And my point, if I wasn't clear, is that the distance the wolf was thrown should be considered artistic license, not an indication that Scruffy is now stronger than some of the Order's members. I base this on the fact that we regularly see character ignoring things like that.

[SowZ]

And my point, if I wasn't clear, is that the distance the wolf was thrown should be considered artistic license, not an indication that Scruffy is now stronger than some of the Order's members. I base this on the fact that we regularly see character ignoring things like that.

Yeah, but we are a bunch of D&D nerds so for many of us not overanalyzing things to the point of ludicrousity is quite literally not an option.

Also, I think the belt being at least +6 is the plausible explanation, especially since Roy mentions it as if it were a 50/50 shot earlier.

[Hbgplayer]

But seriously, from the "bird's eye view" Roy is merely likely to get beaten to death. Mr. Scruffy in is genuine danger of being devoured.

Is it crazy for Blackwing to consider the kitty's problem greater?

And even if Roy were to prevail with assistance of the Belt, he is no position to assist anyone else. Roy rather astutely decided that his own effort is best spent keeping Tarquin's attention while everyone else work on the Linear Guild.

Is Scruffy in any better position to help anyone else though, since everyone is at the palace? :smallconfused:
I do agree however, since Tarquin would likely have Roy shot again if he tried to escape with the belt-and does anyone really want to go through several hundred strips of LG Heaven again? :smalleek:
I think one thing that everyone seems to have overlooked (though I read the first page of comments then skipped to this page) is that Mr. Scruffy could help Roy by slamming Thog, who I don't think ever stopped raging, thus will likely stop soon, depending on his Barbarian level.

[Kish]

Worse- +8 and above hits the Epic items, which have an arbitrary x10 multiplier on their price. If the belt really were that powerful, it'd be worth as much and probably more than the entire pile of treasure it was pulled out of..

Or maybe it's an older-edition relic they found somewhere; the 2nd Ed Belt of Giant Strength actually just gave you the Strength score of a Giant. They came in variants like Belt of Giant's Strength (Hill), (Frost), (Fire) and so on.
It was a gift Roy received after the Order saved the caravan in the desert, remember?

But the way Roy was talking, he certainly seemed to be under the impression it was a 3ed belt.

He could still learn a lesson about how being a single class fighter to show your dad that it works doesn't actually HELP you when trying to save the multi-verse.:smallannoyed:
OotS, the comic, is not going to take a long-term stance that supports the idea "fighters are worthless and no one should play a single-classed fighter in a campaign that involves threats to the world." Call it a hunch. Call it a ten-gold bet, for anyone who thinks it is.

Class is an integral part of character for Haley, Vaarsuvius, Elan, Durkon...and Roy. Only slightly less so for Belkar.

[Blisstake]

I'll assume you mean non-magical melee fighter. One word. Warblade.

I *did* specify that they generally stick to core, which is why I'm not including any of the ToB classes. Plus, Roy directly mentioned why he's not a warblade in SSaDT (different continuity, but still...)

[SowZ]

It was a gift Roy received after the Order saved the caravan in the desert, remember?

But the way Roy was talking, he certainly seemed to be under the impression it was a 3ed belt.

OotS, the comic, is not going to take a long-term stance that supports the idea "fighters are worthless and no one should play a single-classed fighter in a campaign that involves threats to the world." Call it a hunch. Call it a ten-gold bet, for anyone who thinks it is.

Class is an integral part of character for Haley, Vaarsuvius, Elan, Durkon...and Roy. Only slightly less so for Belkar.

Still, I doubt the caravan owns a million gold piece magic item. It probably is a +6 belt.


I *did* specify that they generally stick to core, which is why I'm not including any of the ToB classes. Plus, Roy directly mentioned why he's not a warblade in SSaDT (different continuity, but still...)

Sure, but Warblade would be more flexible/powerful in combat and taken advantage of some of the mental stats. Plus, it would have forced him to be more stingy about feat choices so he may have picked better ones. But that isn't what the comic is about. Roy has personal reasons to being a Fighter that give him obstacles to overcome, a key part of any story. :smalltongue:

Besides, Fighter is a more recognizable class.

[dtilque]

Just because Thog is losing a contest of strength doesn't mean he is losing his Rage as well. The facial expressions were to show that he was losing that contest. Roy was distracted and lost what leverage he had, giving Thog the chance to dominate the contest.

A berserk Thog clearly is much stronger than Roy. That's been well established in this fight. They're in a grapple, which is a test of strength (leverage should also play a part in it, but I have the suspicion that D&D rules ignore that aspect for simplicity). So Thog should be winning. And he was initially winning it in the last panel of page 1. At that point, he's in a position of advantage. He's stronger. He should not be losing at all. Yet, he starts to lose. Why? There's only one answer: he's weakening. He isn't taking any damage at that point, so the only way he could weaken is if his Rage is going away. Q.E.D.

In the past, the Giant has said that people complained that he told too much instead of showing. Now here he's showing, and so many people persist in not getting it. Giant, if you're reading this, it's time to break out the 200-foot flaming letters. I guess it needs to be spelled out after all.

[mrmcfatty]

A berserk Thog clearly is much stronger than Roy. That's been well established in this fight. They're in a grapple, which is a test of strength (leverage should also play a part in it, but I have the suspicion that D&D rules ignore that aspect for simplicity). So Thog should be winning. And he was initially winning it in the last panel of page 1. At that point, he's in a position of advantage. He's stronger. He should not be losing at all. Yet, he starts to lose. Why? There's only one answer: he's weakening. He isn't taking any damage at that point, so the only way he could weaken is if his Rage is going away. Q.E.D.

In the past, the Giant has said that people complained that he told too much instead of showing. Now here he's showing, and so many people persist in not getting it. Giant, if you're reading this, it's time to break out the 200-foot flaming letters. I guess it needs to be spelled out after all.

You may be correct, however have you thought that maybe he is showing how a real grapple works if life? It is a struggle, not just a dice roll you win the end. You might be right but the rolls could have just been very close and this is how the giant chose to show them struggling.

[Kish]

As it is unlikely that Roy's natural Str is higher than 20, .
It's not unlikely at all that a level ~15 fighter's natural Strength is higher than 20.

[zimmerwald1915]

It is unlikely that a level 12-15 Fighter whose stats were generated by rolling 3d6 six times (OOTS manifestly does not work on point buy) has an unmodified Strength greater than 21.

[mrmcfatty]

It is unlikely that a level 12-15 Fighter whose stats were generated by rolling 3d6 six times (OOTS manifestly does not work on point buy) has an unmodified Strength greater than 21.

technically it would be impossible to be above 21.

[zimmerwald1915]

technically it would be impossible to be above 21.
*weirdvorlonnoises*Yes*weirdvorlonnoises*

[renovator]

"Assuming that the strength adjustments for their owning characters cancels out, then Scruffy is on a base str ajustment of -4 vs Scraggly of +2:
20 -8 -15 -4 +belt vs 1 +2.
The belt needs to grant a bonus of +10, ie +16 Strength, or nearly three times what 3.5 belts are capable of."

In some ways you could consider that Shojo is still Mr. Scruffy's master as to quote the OOTS wiki "three rival resistance groups of Azure City united against Xykon. He was considered to be an omen of the will of Shojo's spirit."

So maybe he should get bonuses for being both Belkars animal companion and for being Shojo's familiar (or whatever the Aristocrat equivalent is)

I am still not sure whether Mr. Scruffy is just a cat and whether Shojo was just an aristocrat.

[Scrynor]

Pretty much every story-telling medium in the world exaggerates how far people are knocked back by things. I really think that's all this was. I haven't been on the forums long enough to know but did we go through this same huge debate when Roy smacked Miko off Hinjo? They were fighting by the door to a throne room and she hit the back wall. It's the same thing.

[Kish]

It is unlikely that a level 12-15 Fighter whose stats were generated by rolling 3d6 six times (OOTS manifestly does not work on point buy)

Is 3d6 six times even an alternate method anymore? Yes, I see it is.

The default method, and the method which most logically produces a group like the Order of the Stick, is roll 4d6 and drop the lowest. Roy clearly has a lot of high stats. Plus the tome he found in a Dragon Magazine strip may or may not be something Roy-in-continuity is affected by at this point, and we don't know what other boosts he may have gained, but in any case I won't be signing off on "It is unlikely Roy's natural Strength is higher than 20."

Aristocrats don't have class features that relate to any form of animal companion.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Aristocrats don't have class features that relate to any form of animal companion.

Shojo took Wild Cohort.

Actually, Mr. Scruffy took Leadership. Shojo is his cohort. His followers are the lower level paladins.

[derfenrirwolv]

Actually, I don't think it is. Why did Qarr/the IFCC choose that plane in particular? Because it's harmless and they wanted to protect their asset? Because it's obscure and hard to get back from (ranch elementals don't learn Plane Shift)?

Probably both of those




And why did they want her sent anywhere?

To keep him out of a potentially deadly showdown with the linear guild. They need V not to die so

[spoiler]they can use V's body to hijack the gate control ceremony[/quote]



Does Blackwing instinctively or telepathically know where she is?

Only to a range of 1 mile, and it doesn't cross planes.



Will he tell Durkon?

Can anyone SEE blackwing when he tells them?



Is Thog, in fact, another of Tarquin's sons?

Now you've been eating too much of your own guacamole.

[Shoelessgdowar]

Shojo took Wild Cohort.

Actually, Mr. Scruffy took Leadership. Shojo is his cohort. His followers are the lower level paladins.

That explains how tough Mr. Scruffy is, he has HD from being a Wild Cohort and then being a Ranger Companion, which means he has the size boost mods of 4 growth cycles without gaining all the size, and the combined Str, Dex, Natural Armor, and tricks... so Presuming Shojo was a level 10 Aristocrat (probably way higher, but still), +16 Nat Armor(+5 cohort +6 companion +5 HD Size Cat Boosts), +11 HD (+5 cohort +6 companion), +10 con(HD Size Cat Boosts), +2 Dex (net change due to combined penalties and bonuses), +33 Str (+3 Cohort, +6 companion, +24 HD Size Cat Boosts) (Okay, this is ludicrous, but come on, if we're speculating instead of just accepting the rule of funny, rule of dramatic, and rule of awesome, then might as well stray into the absurd), Has Improved Evasion(because Cohort gave evasion so the Companion Evasion would be substituted with Improved), Share Spells, Devotion, Link, Multiattack, and 16 Bonus Tricks... WOOHOOO, Mr. Scruffy has a 36 Strength before the bet, a 42 Str with the belt... no wonder he smashed Sir Scraggly through a wall...

[Forikroder]

Anyone else think that the next target of IFCCs plans will be Durkon and it will be soon?

It all just seems too convenient.
We haven't seen Durkon in forever.
Durkon has been getting all chummy with an evil (is that for sure?) cleric.
We know it takes both an arcane and a divine caster to control the gates.
Qarr had to report in to the IFCC *right* when V was out of the picture.

I don't buy that sending V to Ranch land was to keep hir safe. V was already safe - s/he'd won. It seems more like the IFCC needed hir safe for later but also out of the way right now because V has the power to prevent the next phase of their plan.

Wild speculation perhaps...

one flaw. Quarr would ahve given Z those coordinates a while ago in anticipation for Z beating V then planeshifting him Quarr was probably certain V would lose Quarr didnt give him the coordinates between him getting beaten and V coming to finish him off

[Shoelessgdowar]

one flaw. Quarr would ahve given Z those coordinates a while ago in anticipation for Z beating V then planeshifting him Quarr was probably certain V would lose Quarr didnt give him the coordinates between him getting beaten and V coming to finish him off

Or they knew Planeshift was going to be Z's last ditch effort if he was losing spell, so they gave him those coordinates as a precaution in case of a situation just like this where V was winning and Z used planeshift to try to turn defeat into victory.

[rewinn]

Why stop at Xykon? Kitty could take on the Snarl alone.:smallwink:... that would explain the very last panel of the entire comic, which The Giant drew years ago ... http://bp2.blogger.com/__FKoNLpd4po/SDXimJLzgyI/AAAAAAAAAA8/A1o-dre7PeM/S220/knitting-cat.jpg

[brionl]

What, in the middle of combat? :smallconfused:

ROY gains Experience
ROY grew to Lv. 17
What?
ROY is evolving!
Congratulations, Your ROY
evolved into WARBLADE!

[Hiro Protagonest]

ROY gains Experience
ROY grew to Lv. 17
What?
ROY is evolving!
Congratulations, Your ROY
evolved into WARBLADE!

Except XP from a fight isn't tallied until after the fight, or maybe downtime, as one time they didn't level up until they got to the inn. And there's no way Roy will become a warblade, much as I would like it to happen.

[St Fan]

Count me as another one who laughed loudly at this comic.

This remind me of a very similar scene in the animated version of Asterix in Britain: Dogmatix is threatened by a big Briton bulldog, backed into a corner against a barrel of magic potion that's leaking, and then a droplet fall on his nose and he reflexively swallow it... cue outside shot of a noisy dog brawl, and the bulldog flee in panic.

I don't know if it's a deliberate reference, but either it is still quite close.

Also, did anyone else notice that Blackwing's eyes turn yellow when he's tempted by the glitery stones?

[semi]

Panel 3... what are those green things? Arrows/quivers?

Sadly, the first time I read the comic, all I could think of was Kermit the Frog, upside down with his feet sticking out. I still like to think that Haley had him stuffed in her bag of holding from time to time but only because Belkar could use him to make some mighty fine frog legs.

[MoonCat]

Panel 3... what are those green things? Arrows/quivers?

Sadly, the first time I read the comic, all I could think of was Kermit the Frog, upside down with his feet sticking out. I still like to think that Haley had him stuffed in her bag of holding from time to time but only because Belkar could use him to make some mighty fine frog legs.

One end of her arrows. Unless you mean the green potion.

[Canisius]

Hate to interrupt the fascinating game mechanics discussion, or what's left of it, but I just wanted to point out that the "puppy" doesn't have the X's for eyes the giant usually reserves for deceased combatants.

Please continue the enlightening discussion about whether the Scruffinator could now defeat Tarquin in single combat.