All Guns Repeat - the Fireball Wizard [PF]

[jaybird]

Playing an Evoker (Admixture Specialization) in Pathfinder, we're likely to go to level 10 or so, with an epilogue to the campaign at level 20. I'm trying for one thing and one thing only - a Wizard who can make the biggest boom, and I think I've done it with a combination of PF and 3.5 materials. Any thoughts on legalities and how to make him even blastier?

Human
Wizard 5/Pyromancer 10/War Mage 5 (from AoM)

STR 11
DEX 15
CON 12
INT 19
WIS 12
CHA 11

Progression:
-Wizard
1 - Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus (Evocation), Eschew Materials
3 - Improved Initiative
4 - +1 INT
5 - Fiery Spell, Arcane Thesis (Fireball)
-Pyromancer
7 - Scorching Spell
8 - +1 DEX
9 - Spell Specialization (Fireball)
11 - Weapon Focus (Ray)
12 - +1 INT
13 - Spell Perfection (Fireball)
15 - Combat Casting
-War Mage
16 - +1 INT
17 - Empower Spell, Maximize Spell
19 - Quicken Spell, Twin Spell

Once all's said and done:

Fireball:

Fiery, Scorching, Empowered, Maximized, Quickened, Twinned
Arcane Thesis, Fire Manipulation (Pyromancer), Spell Specialization
Total spell level: 3+0 (Fiery)+0 (Scorching)+0 (Empowered)+0 (Maximized)+1 (Quickened)+0 (Twinned, spell Perfection)=4
Spell Level 4

20d6 (Pyromancer removes [Fire] cap)+5d6 (Inner Flame)+4d6 (Arcane Thesis, Spell Perfection)+4d6 (Spell Specialization, Spell Perfection)=33d6 damage base

33d6*1.5 (Empower)=49d6

49d6 Maximized = 294

Fiery +1/d6, Scorching +3/d6, Battle Magic +3/d6, total of +7/d6

Spell Perfection multiplies all numerical modifiers by two - +14/d6

49*14=686

Total damage/Fireball=294+686=980

Quicken+Twin=4 Fireballs/turn, 860*4=3920

A total of 3920 Fire damage over 4 Fireballs (effectively 2, as Twin forces me to fire both at the same location) at 1 4th level spell and 1 3rd level spell. Final INT is 22, so I can change the element of the spell 3+6 (INT mod)=9 times per day. Half of that damage ignores the first 10 points of fire resistance, and the other half ignores all fire resistance and immunity. Half of damage dealt is dealt again next turn, for an optimum total (no fire resistance or immunity) of 3920*1.5=5880 damage from a 4th level spell and a 3rd level spell.

Yes, my GM is only letting me do this on the basis that direct damage is the least efficient thing for a Wizard to do, so I could be doing so much worse. :smallbiggrin:

Thoughts?

[Eldariel]

Searing Spell would allow the whole ball to ignore all Fire Resistance and pierce immunity by ½. You could Ocular Spell + Twin Ray it. You could most certainly Born of Three Thunders it. Repeat Spell could be interesting. Caster Level could easily go way over 20; see this for details (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872350/Raising_Caster_Level). Chaos Shuffle some feats or some such. Iono. I think you might want to dip Wyrm Wizard for Greater Arcane Fusion to double the number you can throw in a turn.

[jaybird]

Well, I already ignore immunity by 1/2. Would completely ignoring Fire Resistance as well as Immunity be worth +2/d6 damage from Fiery Spell? I suppose it would, as the GM will take one look at my Feats and start writing up a whole lot of encounters with Red Dragons and Fire Elementals...

[MesiDoomstalker]

Fireball:

Fiery, Scorching, Empowered, Maximized, Quickened, Twinned
Arcane Thesis, Fire Manipulation (Pyromancer), Spell Specialization
Total spell level: 3+0 (Fiery)+0 (Scorching)+0 (Empowered)+0 (Maximized)+1 (Quickened)+0 (Twinned, spell Perfection)=4
Spell Level 4

20d6 (Pyromancer removes [Fire] cap)+5d6 (Inner Flame)+4d6 (Arcane Thesis, Spell Perfection)+4d6 (Spell Specialization, Spell Perfection)=33d6 damage base

33d6*1.5 (Empower)=49d6

49d6 Maximized = 294

Fiery +1/d6, Scorching +3/d6, Battle Magic +3/d6, total of +7/d6

Spell Perfection multiplies all numerical modifiers by two - +14/d6

49*14=686

Total damage/Fireball=294+686=980

Quicken+Twin=4 Fireballs/turn, 860*4=3920

A total of 3920 Fire damage over 4 Fireballs (effectively 2, as Twin forces me to fire both at the same location) at 1 4th level spell and 1 3rd level spell. Final INT is 22, so I can change the element of the spell 3+6 (INT mod)=9 times per day. Half of that damage ignores the first 10 points of fire resistance, and the other half ignores all fire resistance and immunity. Half of damage dealt is dealt again next turn, for an optimum total (no fire resistance or immunity) of 3920*1.5=5880 damage from a 4th level spell and a 3rd level spell.

Yes, my GM is only letting me do this on the basis that direct damage is the least efficient thing for a Wizard to do, so I could be doing so much worse. :smallbiggrin:

Thoughts?

Emphasis mine. That is not how Empower works or how Maximize functions alongside Empower. First find your total amount of d6's before either of those metamagic, which is 33d6. Now Maximize is applied first, so 198. Then you actually roll 33d6 and take that amount and multiply it by 0.5 which is added to 198. I now normally Empower is 1.5 but when together with Maximize, you only get the half bonus to the maximized result. Then you add everything else based on the unmodified amount of dice. Metamagic never adds more dice (to my knowledge besides the epic one that increases the cap).

[gomipile]

I hope the last levels aren't from the Warmage base class, since Warmage Edge applies only to spells cast as a warmage.

[Eldariel]

I hope the last levels aren't from the Warmage base class, since Warmage Edge applies only to spells cast as a warmage.

It's War Mage from Age of Mortals. Adds per die damage. V. handy as a multiplier.

[Fizban]

Check the errata on that War Mage-it has a per day limit. Yeah, I know it's plenty of uses per day, but it's still limited. More of an FYI than a "you're doing it wrong!"

[jaybird]

Gotcha, thanks guys. Would it be better if I grabbed Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Focus instead of Fiery and Searing?

[Endarire]

With assay spell resistance (Spell Compendium) and the feat Arcane Mastery (Complete Arcane), you can bypass any non-infinite SR you should expect to face.

[Curious]

Being a Spellslinger (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/spellslinger) would allow you to raise the DC of your fireballs by an amount equal to the weapons enhancement bonus.

Dipping one level in a crossblooded Draconic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/draconic-bloodline)/Orc (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/orc-bloodline) sorceror would get you a +2 to damage for each damage die of your spell.

Hope this helps.

[DeAnno]

I'm not sure how the Save DC rules work in PF with metamagic or how prevalent Evasion is there, but anything with it is going to laugh at you. I suggest investing in at least Greater Dispel and a Chaining Rod so you can blank Rings of Evasion efficiently.

[jaybird]

With assay spell resistance (Spell Compendium) and the feat Arcane Mastery (Complete Arcane), you can bypass any non-infinite SR you should expect to face.

Well, I don't think I'll be allowed Arcane Mastery, but Assay Spell Resistance is in the cards. Should I bother taking Greater Spell Focus Evocation if I'm going to also take Persistent Spell? My weak spot is going to be high reflex saves anyway, so it could be good, but on the other hand, that could have been a metamagic feat to let me blast even harder...

[DeAnno]

+1 or +2 from focus feats really isn't going to do much of anything at that level of play. Either you have high save DCs which scale with 1/2 HD or better or you don't, and if you don't things can and will beat them.

[jaybird]

Fair enough, that makes sense. This (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Metamage_2.0_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)) class drew my eye, actually, and I'm trying to decide whether to take Pyromancer 5/Metamage 10, Pyromancer 10/War Mage 5, or Pyromancer 10/Metamage 5. Pyromancer until at least 5 is non-negotiable, as that's the level where caps on [Fire] spells are removed. Thoughts?

[tyckspoon]

Fair enough, that makes sense. This (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Metamage_2.0_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)) class drew my eye, actually, and I'm trying to decide whether to take Pyromancer 5/Metamage 10, Pyromancer 10/War Mage 5, or Pyromancer 10/Metamage 5. Pyromancer until at least 5 is non-negotiable, as that's the level where caps on [Fire] spells are removed. Thoughts?

Requirements:
Spellcraft 15 ranks
Must cast 5th level spells.

You won't be getting into Metamage until very late in the character, and you won't be anywhere near finishing it until fairly far into Epic (and you'd better hope your DM lets you knock the Spellcraft requirement down to 12 to work with the way PF changed skill caps.) That said.. if you are allowed to use it, GRAB IT AND DON'T LET GO. That thing looks like somebody read the Incantatrix and went "you know, this is nice, but I just don't think it's powerful enough for my needs." 8 metamagic bonus feats and stacking metamagic reduction that can explicitly go to 0? Yeah. That'll do. The only downside there is the entry requirement feats kinda suck, but who cares.

(Also 3/4 BAB on a full-caster prestige and reaaaallly weird save progressions.)

Edit: Assuming the 'Pyromancer' you're talking about is also the one on D&DWiki, take that at least up to 7 for the metamagic reduction to [Fire] spells. 8 is probably worthwhile as well, you'd need to weigh 9 and 10 against other classes.

[Gotterdammerung]

vest of the evoker +1 dmg/lv of spell. for evocation spells 3 times per day.

Fire metamagics on flame arrow can be real nice with heighten if you have an archer in your group.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You may wish to look up the Mailman. It has a lot of what you want to do.

[jaybird]

Requirements:
Spellcraft 15 ranks
Must cast 5th level spells.


Yes, that Pyromancer. I'm pretty doubtful that my GM will allow Metamage for all the reasons you stated above (if we were playing a Tier 1 campaign and I was blasting, that would be a different matter, but we're not). Would Archmage or War Mage (from AoM) be better once I complete Pyromancer? I was thinking War Mage for the extra metamagic feats and damage dice, but Archmage has some pretty nice abilities of its own...

[tyckspoon]

Would Archmage or War Mage (from AoM) be better once I complete Pyromancer? I was thinking War Mage for the extra metamagic feats and damage dice, but Archmage has some pretty nice abilities of its own...

I think War Mage is better for straight up damage (especially if your DM isn't aware of/chooses to ignore the errat on the extra damage ability, since they handled it by printing it in a later and even more obscure book and not releasing actual errata files), although you'd have to math it out against Archmage taking Spell Power 5x for extra caster level. I'm fairly certain War Mage is better if you take any Arcana other than Spell Power, like Reach/Shaping/Spell-Like Ability for the utility they offer.

[ThiefInTheNight]

If you're really planning on using a lot of the same spell (Fireball) with lots of metamagic, you should really consider Echo Spell from Secrets of Xen'drik. It is... very good here.

[jaybird]

I think War Mage is better for straight up damage (especially if your DM isn't aware of/chooses to ignore the errat on the extra damage ability, since they handled it by printing it in a later and even more obscure book and not releasing actual errata files), although you'd have to math it out against Archmage taking Spell Power 5x for extra caster level. I'm fairly certain War Mage is better if you take any Arcana other than Spell Power, like Reach/Shaping/Spell-Like Ability for the utility they offer.

Well, Spell Power would add 45 onto my Fireball, while War Mage would do +6 (Spell Perfection doubles numerical bonuses) damage per dice...yeah, Pyromancer 10/War Mage 5 seems to be the optimal combo here.

[Curious]

Well, Spell Power would add 45 onto my Fireball, while War Mage would do +6 (Spell Perfection doubles numerical bonuses) damage per dice...yeah, Pyromancer 10/War Mage 5 seems to be the optimal combo here.

As I said earlier, a single level dip in cross-blooded orc/dragon sorceror could be very nice for your build ( +2 damage for every die rolled).