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View Full Version : No idea how to stat these up: Vestigial Divinities



Schadrach
2011-08-29, 10:09 PM
Anyone playing in my current game, please stop reading *NOW* or else.


In my current game, the gods are...somewhat less extant than normal, and have been for quite a while. They actually exist only in the form of vestiges (as in Tome of Magic Binder vestiges), whose seals are secret and are only accessible to a homebrew Prc (it's a binder/incarnate mystic theurge-style class, one of the prereqs is literally having figured out that the gods can be contacted as vestiges and discovering a seal for their intended patron vestige). Game is Pathfinder + some 3.5 stuff that wasn't converted with appropriate skill and HD changes.


This PrC is kind of a binder/incarnate mystic theurge kind of deal that has a patron vestige (one of the lost gods, patron vestige functions ala Knight of the Sacred Seal) and chooses a favored domain of said deity vestige. The class features amount to +soul binding, +meldshaping, soulmelds can be hidden like vestige signs (though the patron vestige's sign and any melds must be visible to function), first granted power from the favored domain, and domain spells each 1/day as a spell like ability, up through the 5th level domain spell at 10th in the PrC.

The PrC isn't what's at question here, as I've got it basically like I want it. The thing I'm not entirely sure how to do right is designing vestiges. The first one likely to come up (the first character with this PrC is likely going to be an NPC) serves Kossuth, Lord of Flame. Here were the thoughts I had on the topic:

1. Signs should be more severe than normal signs to denote the "special" nature of these vestiges.
2. It would not only be permissible but even reasonable to scale with total character level or essentia investment, since any character able to use these vestiges is a binder/meldshaper by definition.

Here was my start of a Kossuth vestige (leaving out the fluff, since, well, the fluff is remains of God of Fire after plot events).

Kossuth
Sign: Your body appears to transform into living flames. These flames do not damage you or you gear, but this sign must be visible in order for Aura of Fire or Devouring Flame to be active.

Abilities

Fire Bolt: You can fire a bolt of flame as a ranged touch attack. This deals 1d6 damage per two binder levels (should this be character levels?). You can invest essentia into this ability as though it were a soulmeld, granting a +1 to hit (should this be a different bonus?) per point of invested essentia.

Devouring Flame: Once per day, over the course of one minute, you can incinerate the corpse of any living being. You must lay both hands on the corpse at all times for this effect to function, although performing it only requires a standard action per round. If interrupted, the process must be started anew. You gain a reserve of power equal to the number of HD of the last creature you used this ability on (that is, devouring a new creature overwrites the previous one). This reserve of power is used to power the sustaining flame and servant of fire abilities. If you fail to renew your pact with Kossuth, you lose any remaining reserve.

Sustaining Flame: By consuming one HD of your reserve, you can negate the need to eat or drink for one day, burning away the remnant life force of your victim. By consuming one HD of your reserve, you can negate the need to breathe for one minute, resuming as though you just started holding your breath at the end of that duration. Using either of these effects requires a standard action.

Servant of Fire: You can create a fire elemental that serves you. This fire elemental cannot have more HD than your $UNNAMED_PRC_MENTIONED_ABOVE level, creating it costs a number of HD of your reserve equal to the number of HD it possesses. This ability can be infused with essentia in the same fashion as a soulmeld, and doing so has the same effect as investing essentia in Soulspark Familiar. This ability cannot be used in conjunction with Soulspark familiar. If you fail to renew your pact with Kossuth, the fire elemental dissipates.

Aura of Fire: You gain the burn special ability of a fire elemental, as though an elemental with as many HD as your total character level.

So, umm, is that a reasonable vestige, given it's a primary feature of a prestige class for a binder/incarnate combination and that a deity existing in this state is a major plot point? Is it too much? Too little? Too complicated? Not enough different powers? Any ideas for other deities?

Domriso
2011-08-30, 12:59 AM
It is very specific. All of those abilities being based on fire? Kind of makes it a somewhat less interesting Vestige.

That being said, most of the abilities look okay. I would suggest making the aspects of the Vestige which can have essentia invested into it be turned into an aspect of the Prestige Class itself, but if these can only be used by someone of the PrC, then perhaps that's just being nitpicky.

Finally, the one power which really confuses me is Devouring Flame. You can move when you light a corpse on fire, but only if you can lift it? I'm just... what?

Schadrach
2011-08-30, 06:32 AM
It is very specific. All of those abilities being based on fire? Kind of makes it a somewhat less interesting Vestige.

That being said, most of the abilities look okay. I would suggest making the aspects of the Vestige which can have essentia invested into it be turned into an aspect of the Prestige Class itself, but if these can only be used by someone of the PrC, then perhaps that's just being nitpicky.

Finally, the one power which really confuses me is Devouring Flame. You can move when you light a corpse on fire, but only if you can lift it? I'm just... what?

Yeah, the one ability is poorly phrased. The idea is that you have to be able to be able to keep unbroken physical contact with it all times, but you still have a move available if you can do so without ceasing physical contact with the corpse at any time. Going to rephrase it some now.

In a broader sense, the idea isn't so much "powers based around fire" but rather "powers based around the lost gods" with my first attempt at statting out one as a vestige being Kossuth, who is god of elemental fire (domains include Destruction, Fire, Renewal) with Devouring Flames and the two abilities it powers being an attempt at working the Destruction/Renewal aspect in there somewhere. If you have a good idea for a less fire-centric power for our friend the Lord of Flames I'd love the suggestion.

The other two I see as likely to come up in the reasonable future are Obad-Hai and Tiamat (deities of two players in my group that are likely to consider going that route), but I'm not sure where to start on them other than Obad-Hai = naturey stuff and Tiamat = dragony stuff.

THEChanger
2011-08-30, 10:46 PM
Well, let's start with your current Vestige. I'm not too familiar with Kossuth, but let's start with another Fire-themed Vestige: First level Aym.

Aym was a Dwarf Queen whose avarice caused her to burn alive with her hoard of treasure. From her legend, we derive her granted abilities. Her dwarves nature gives us some dwarven traits, and the ability to use medium armor. Her avarice gives us the ability to destroy the objects of others, and do more damage to them(Improved Sunder and Ruinous Strike). Her being burned alive gives us Halo of Fire and Fire Resistance.

So, take a look at Kossuth's legends. The doctrine of his clerics. Even if those are not necessarily used in your game, they will give you ideas for where to start. For instance, if he's the God of Elemental Fire(and I may be interpretting Elemental Fire wrong), maybe he grants some elemental traits. As fire sheds light, perhaps he grants the ability to dispel darkness, or cause more damage to those sensative to light.

Now, for Obad-Hi, I have a little more to work with. Obad-Hi is a True Neutral Deity. I'd throw that in there, perhaps giving his Binders a stronger defense(Immunity?) to Alignment Detection and/or effects based on Alignment. I'd also have access to a smaller version of Storm of Vengeance as a 5-round rechargable. Just cause that'd be awesome. And a Druid's Empathy would be an easy thing to throw into the mix(-3 Effective Druid Level? EDL equal to PrC level?).

Tiamat, you have to have an ability based on each head. Let's see...
Red should have Fearsome Prescence.
Blue should get a bonus to Knowledge Checks.
Green should have some form of mind control magic, since that seems to be their shtick.
Black wants to have a Breath Weapon, but I'm more inclined to give it something cooler. Perhaps a sort of acidic field that errodes at organic material?
White perhaps should get a form of Rage. They are the angriest and most animalistic of Tiamat's brood, so that makes sense. If you're not comfortable with that, maybe Icewalking would be more appropriate?

That's my take on this. I don't know how you're trying to balance these Godly Vestiges in relation to the ToM Vestiges, but here are some ideas.