[3.5] Pixie Bard//Barbarian help?

[Dochetwas]

I've tried looking on the boards, but I couldn't really find anything that related to this very much, so here we go.

I'm going to be playing in a gestalt game starting next week, and the DM decided that she wouldn't bother with LA as long as we "aren't trying to break the game", which made me happy, and I decided I was going to play a pixie. After that, it logically followed that my pixie needed to be manly and awesome, so I decided to go for a Bardbarian build.

The thing is, I doubt that I can do most of the things I would generally do with a Barbarian (mainly tripping, and more tripping), so I'd like to make a more Dexterity-focused build, using Ferocity.

Any advice would be very welcome.

[Fearan]

Well, aside from the standart melee bard stuff (you know, Snowflake wardance, Slippers of battledancing, Harmonising crystal echoblades), I'd like to note that pixie grants you really high stats, so look for the tread "x stat to y bonus" to use it properly. Dip into sneak attack hit&run fighter for dex to damage vs flat-footed opponents, take improved initiative and rock.

UPD: also, Arcane strike

[Keld Denar]

You are gonna have issues tripping, due to the fact that you are small. Tripping only involved 3 factors. Size, str, and misc. You can amp up your misc bonuses (Imp Trip, Sweeping weapon, Armbands of Might), but you are still going to be faced with undoubtably overwhelming issues with enemies size and str. Then there is the simple fact that you can only trip foes up to one size larger than you.

That said, you COULD get enough bonuses to Disarm between optimized Inspire Courage, Rage, using a 2handed weapon, and a bunch of other bonuses to attack rolls. Unfortunately, disarming only works on some targets, since you can't disarm natural weapons and such.

[Dochetwas]

You are gonna have issues tripping, due to the fact that you are small. Tripping only involved 3 factors. Size, str, and misc. You can amp up your misc bonuses (Imp Trip, Sweeping weapon, Armbands of Might), but you are still going to be faced with undoubtably overwhelming issues with enemies size and str. Then there is the simple fact that you can only trip foes up to one size larger than you.

That said, you COULD get enough bonuses to Disarm between optimized Inspire Courage, Rage, using a 2handed weapon, and a bunch of other bonuses to attack rolls. Unfortunately, disarming only works on some targets, since you can't disarm natural weapons and such.

Indeed, which is why I figured tripping wasn't a realistic option to pursue. I might consider disarming, though, depending on what the campaign looks like. I think I'd be able to get a Whip-Dagger if I ask nicely enough.


Well, aside from the standart melee bard stuff (you know, Snowflake wardance, Slippers of battledancing, Harmonising crystal echoblades), I'd like to note that pixie grants you really high stats, so look for the tread "x stat to y bonus" to use it properly. Dip into sneak attack hit&run fighter for dex to damage vs flat-footed opponents, take improved initiative and rock.

UPD: also, Arcane strike

That seems like a plan, although I don't know if the Hit & Run Fighter will work, since it seemed to be explicitly a Drow replacement level in DotU. Hopefully I'll be able to go with it, though.

[Coidzor]

Why a bardbarian Pixie?

As it is, you'll want to start worshipping Gruumsh or see if you can get the Battlehowler PrC from Dragon 311 okay'd and the patron pre-req altered/nixed. Especially since the abilities aren't tied to much more than being angry but still being a bard.

Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) is probably of more interest to you than Ferocity though, as far as variant rages go.

[Dochetwas]

Why a bardbarian Pixie?

As it is, you'll want to start worshipping Gruumsh or see if you can get the Battlehowler PrC from Dragon 311 okay'd and the patron pre-req altered/nixed. Especially since the abilities aren't tied to much more than being angry but still being a bard.

Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) is probably of more interest to you than Ferocity though, as far as variant rages go.

Mainly for the lulz. I was going to go Bard//Binder, but then I decided to play something that didn't have a metric ****ton of options, so I wouldn't have to think quite so much. And an angry pixie singing and bashing people seemed very cool.

I might be able to get that, actually; my DM is being pretty cool with allowing non-overpowered-beyond-9000 things in this game.

I definitely considered Whirling Frenzy, but I didn't think that an extra attack would be as good for me as the boost to DEX from Ferocity, since I'm not really focusing on getting extra damage (Leap Attack, precision damage, etc.) or doing any kind of combat maneuvers (tripping, grappling, bull rushing, etc.). I could easily be wrong, though.

[EDIT] I just looked over the Battlehowler, and it seems very meh. I get the point of it, but it seems like a long way to go to get, essentially, +1 Inspire Courage, and not really anything else. Is there something I'm missing?

[Coidzor]

[EDIT] I just looked over the Battlehowler, and it seems very meh. I get the point of it, but it seems like a long way to go to get, essentially, +1 Inspire Courage, and not really anything else. Is there something I'm missing?

Rage and Inspire Courage at the same time, rather than relying on inspire courage then raging. By my reading it eases the action economy of having to activate both as well.

[Dochetwas]

Rage and Inspire Courage at the same time, rather than relying on inspire courage then raging. By my reading it eases the action economy of having to activate both as well.

I can see that interpretation of it, but it seems more like it's just saying, "Despite requiring ranks in a skill that is based on Charisma, you may still use bardic music while raging, guys!" If I end up not being able to go gestalt with the character, I'll probably try to use Battlehowler, but right now, it just doesn't seem worthwhile to me. Extra uses of Rage are nice, and so is increased Inspire Courage, but it's not worth busting my hump trying to meet the entry requirements with this character. (Power Attack, I know I can get with Ape Totem barbarian, but getting Cleave would be a pain in the neck with the pixie's strength penalty.)

[Coidzor]

Pretty sure you can get cleave on an item, I'll have to check my notes though. edit: Oh, hmm, only ones I can find are crappy. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99824) Without reverse-engineering the feat cost out of the item itself.

And, well, I imagine the whole difficulty getting power attack at all kind of underscores the scenario.

[Dochetwas]

Pretty sure you can get cleave on an item, I'll have to check my notes though. edit: Oh, hmm, only ones I can find are crappy. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99824) Without reverse-engineering the feat cost out of the item itself.

And, well, I imagine the whole difficulty getting power attack at all kind of underscores the scenario.

Well, it's not actually tough to get Power Attack. It is very tough to get Cleave, though. And I wouldn't be opposed to trying to go the reverse-engineering path, except that the items that grant Cleave end up having fairly dissimilar costs for it, which makes me sad.

[faceroll]

The swordsage setting sun school has a bunch of ways that let you throw enemies around using either strength and your large size OR dexterity and small size to your advantage.

I would take two levels of barbarian (use ACFs to pick up feats you need), and pick up the extra rage feat. Then go into swordsage for setting sun maneuvers. What would be more hilarious than a pixie throwing orcs across the battle field?

Your optimization ceiling is lower, due to wanting lots of dex AND strength.

[Fearan]

That seems like a plan, although I don't know if the Hit & Run Fighter will work, since it seemed to be explicitly a Drow replacement level in DotU.

Nah. It doesn't have racial prerequisites. It's an ACF, not racial substitution level

[Dochetwas]

The swordsage setting sun school has a bunch of ways that let you throw enemies around using either strength and your large size OR dexterity and small size to your advantage.

I would take two levels of barbarian (use ACFs to pick up feats you need), and pick up the extra rage feat. Then go into swordsage for setting sun maneuvers. What would be more hilarious than a pixie throwing orcs across the battle field?

Your optimization ceiling is lower, due to wanting lots of dex AND strength.

Hmm. I might have to look into this. I haven't had an opportunity to play any Tome of Battle classes yet, but I've heard good things about the swordsage.


Nah. It doesn't have racial prerequisites. It's an ACF, not racial substitution level

Fair enough. I'm definitely going to do that, then. :smallbiggrin: