stunning question

[dhusarra]

is the stunning treated like helpless to make coup de crace?

[Diarmuid]

Stunned: A stunned creature drops everything held, can’t take actions, takes a –2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).




Helpless: A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (–5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks gets no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.

As a full-round action, an enemy can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless foe. An enemy can also use a bow or crossbow, provided he is adjacent to the target. The attacker automatically hits and scores a critical hit. (A rogue also gets her sneak attack damage bonus against a helpless foe when delivering a coup de grace.) If the defender survives, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die.

Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity.

Creatures that are immune to critical hits do not take critical damage, nor do they need to make Fortitude saves to avoid being killed by a coup de grace.


I dont see anything in stunned that would lead me to believe that the target is "Helpless".

[Yuki Akuma]

This question is not stunning at all. This thread lied to me.

Also no stunning is not a condition that causes one to be helpless. It would be far too good to be available as a feat otherwise.

[Yora]

Usually helpless is explicitly stated when it applies. If it is not, then it's not the case by default.

[dhusarra]

"otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy". i think that maybe will be the stunning cause you can't take actions.

[Circle of Life]

A dazed creature can't take actions either. Is a dazed creature helpless? No, of course not. That would be silly.

Things that cause a creature to be rendered helpless are explicitly stated. Stunning is stunning. Being stunned is not the same as being helpless, or it would tell you that they were helpless.

[Douglas]

"Can't take actions" is not even close to the same thing is "completely paralyzed, unable to make even the slightest effort to dodge."

Someone is helpless when he is paralyzed, unconscious, hog-tied with rope (as in tied up so thoroughly he can't even bend a single joint), or handicapped with some similar degree of absolute inability to move in reaction to attacks. Someone who is stunned may be staggering about, reeling, losing his grip on anything he was holding, and unable to muster the coordination to take deliberate offensive action, but he is still able to move (though not enough to travel between squares) and dodge (though poorly).

[dhusarra]

ok thanx quys :D