[PF] Magus spellstrike with 2-hander

[evillemming]

So I have a rules issue in a game I am running where one player is upset and complaining over what another PC can do.
Help me out playground...

Anyway, the party is currently 2nd level (started there), and the issue is the Magus Spellstrike ability -- the ability of the Magus to deliver a touch-attack spell via a melee weapon. The Magus is a high-dex character using a elven-curved blade, a 7 lbs two-hander that allows weapon finesse.

Spellstrike:

At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell.

The complaint is that with any spell that requires a somatic component (in this case shocking grasp), the Magus cannot use a two handed weapon since he needs one hand free to cast the spell.

The counter-argument is that like a wizard's staff, he can hold the weapon in one hand, cast the spell (incurring the appropriate AoO). Then he can use the free-action to grip the sword and deliver the attack.

Since I already allowed him to have the elven curved blade (he asked beforehand), and I don't see any real unbalancing issue with it (he is in fact gimping himself with regards to Magus two handed Spell Combat abilities later, but wanted the sword for fluff reasons), I was going rule with the counter-argument above.

Am I being unreasonable and opening the door for abuse?

[stack]

He can use it for spellstrike, but not spell combat, which specifically requires a one-handed weapon.

I think one of the new archetypes replaces spell combat, but none of them are terribly impressive so I don't recall which.

[Andreaz]

This goes back to how 2h weapons do not interfere with casting. They never did, or a wizard with a staff would be useless. It's within raw, if not explicit, but here goes: Casting a spell while wielding a 2hander is possible because releasing a hand to cast and put it back after casting are both free actions.

Now on to magus specifics
1) Spellstrike works with any melee weapon
2) Spell Combat doesn't
3) 1h weapons can be wielded as 2h weapons merely as a decision the character makes while it fights.

Thus, a STR-Magus would use a scimitar with both hands, releasing one whenever he'd use spell combat.

[Drothmal]

I agree, if he cannot use Spell combat easily (though at some point he might use enlarge to use the weapon 1-handed and use the reach to be able to use spell combat), he should be able to use Spellstrike without questions

Besides that, rules wise I agree with the reasons given above

[Andreaz]

I agree, if he cannot use Spell combat easily (though at some point he might use enlarge to use the weapon 1-handed and use the reach to be able to use spell combat), he should be able to use Spellstrike without questions

Besides that, rules wise I agree with the reasons given above
There's a hole in that thinking there: Changing your size category or your weapon's size category doesn't change the way it's intended to be wielded. An ogre holding a greatsword made for a halfling is still wielding a 2h weapon.

[evillemming]

Thanks guys.

I think this mostly stemmed from a confusion about the differences (or that there were differences) between Spellstrike and Spell Combat.

[Larpus]

Don't see anything wrong with that, really, I totally agree with the rules there, I know that there are some DMs out there who might be too scared to allow such a thing (and similarly wouldn't allow a Magus to double-grip his Scimitar for Spellstrike), but don't think it would be even remotely close to broken.

If anything, I'd give him a bonus to offset his loss of Spell Combat if he's either lagging behind the rest of the group and/or his fluff is interesting enough to warrant a quick fix of an overlooked possibility (since Elves and Magi have everything fluff-wise to go along well, and then comes an elven weapon that doesn't really work for the Magus...).

[Rixx]

I'm writing for a 3rd party supplement for the Pathfinder RPG that's going to include new magus archetypes. Since it's going to be OGL, I will share with you one of the archetypes that's going to be included, if you would be interested in allowing it for your player.


Reaver

The fearsome reaver carries a large, imposing weapon, through which he channels his power and siphons the energy from his foes.

Spellstrike (Su): The reaver gains this ability at 1st level.

Baleful Surge (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a reaver uses Spellstrike to deliver a spell through his melee weapon, he may choose to use this ability, gaining the benefits of the Power Attack feat. If the delivered spell deals hit point damage, the extra damage granted by Power Attack is of the same type as the damage dealt by the spell. In addition, he treats his base attack bonus as his magus level (plus any base attack bonus from other classes) for the attack that delivers the spell only. This does not grant the reaver additional attacks.

This benefit does not stack with regular use of the Power Attack feat, though any other feats that apply to use of Power Attack (such as Furious Focus) also apply to Baleful Surge. This ability replaces spell combat.

Soul Siphon (Su): At 8th level, if the reaver scores a confirmed critical hit against a living enemy or reduces a living enemy to 0 or fewer hit points, he can steal some of that creature’s life force. This ability replenishes 1 spent arcane pool point to the reaver’s arcane pool. He cannot exceed his arcane pool’s maximum. This ability only applies to creatures who have a number of hit dice equal to half the reaver’s level or greater (minimum 1). At 14th level, whenever a reaver uses his soul siphon ability, he regains 2 arcane pool points instead of 1. This ability replaces improved spell combat and greater spell combat.

Special: A reaver who also chooses to become a bladebound magus may choose a two-handed slashing weapon as his black blade.

Spell Combat is a very powerful ability, and delivering single attacks becomes a less viable strategy at higher levels. This archetype replaces spell combat with an ability that gives a little boost to your spellstrikes, and gives you an option to recover your pool points at higher levels (which is somewhat unrelated, but makes up for the huge hit you take from giving up spell combat full-attacks).

[evillemming]

Very interesting!

I don't think this would fly for his character though. He is using the elven curved blade with weapon finesse since he has a dex of 18 and str of 10 -- so no power attack for him. Also, it wouldn't fit with his fluff.

But thanks for the info, it might spark some ideas for me.

[Larpus]

Well, with such a low Str score, if you want to, he's lagging behind or you feel like he's lagging behind, a cool bump would be to allow him to apply Dervish Dance to his blade.