How much LA is/are Ability Bonuses worth

[thompur]

We all know, or at least most of us believe, that the MM LA's are a bit out of whack. For example the Sucubus, with its +6 LA is an ECL 12, and the Nymph, with its +7, is ECL 13.
Now I realise that their ability bonuses are only part of the LA story, but how much? The Sucubus has a net +26 to ability scores, and the Nymph +28.

I guess this is a round about way of asking, in your opinion, how much bonus to net ability scores is worth? +2 - +6 = +1 LA, +8 - +12= +2LA

What do you think, playgrounders?

[Vladislav]

Rather than looking at unplayable LA races, look at some that are actually considered worth playing as your baseline. For example, Goliath has +1 LA for +4 Str, +2 Con and Powerful Build (the latter being the important part)

Using this as blueprint, I'd say +6 to ability scores alone isn't worth +1 LA, but +8 might be.

[faceroll]

I think a net +6 to ability scores with no more than +4 to an ability score is "worth it", where worth it means that for mechanical reasons, that race works better than other races.

LA should really reflect what you want party composition to look like, though. If you want mostly PHB races, keep costs high.

[Fouredged Sword]

Also with buyoff lower LAs are almost free, while higher LA's stick you with the full cost your whole game. This sharply adjusts the cost of LA per LA.

[GoatBoy]

No matter what your LA-adjusted race gives you, you're losing out on HP, saves, and attack bonus, not to mention you'll be behind on class features. It's rare to find a race with abilities which makes up for this. One could make up for lost HP or attack bonus with increased strength and constitution. But it's impossible to make up for delaying your access to higher-level spells, even if your save DC's are one higher thanks to a boost to your caster stat. So you can't really judge all abilities equally.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

Too simplistic a way to do things. I already have a better system for estimating ECL of abilities. It one of my first threads here that

[SowZ]

No matter what your LA-adjusted race gives you, you're losing out on HP, saves, and attack bonus, not to mention you'll be behind on class features. It's rare to find a race with abilities which makes up for this. One could make up for lost HP or attack bonus with increased strength and constitution. But it's impossible to make up for delaying your access to higher-level spells, even if your save DC's are one higher thanks to a boost to your caster stat. So you can't really judge all abilities equally.

An exception is purely martial classes. Great stat bonus races can make up for a loss in two BAB, a plus one to all saves, and a bonus feat the fighter loses out on easily. If the racial ability is stronger than a feat and standard racial abilities combined, a Con bonus makes up the hit to the Fighters strong save, the Con bonus will eventually make up for the hit to HP, and a Str. adj will make up for the loss in BAB while adding extra damage, a +2 or +3 LA race can be a very good idea for a Fighter to pick up with a starting level of maybe five to seven.

Also, racial HD needs to be considered.

[tyckspoon]

An exception is purely martial classes. Great stat bonus races can make up for a loss in two BAB, a plus one to all saves, and a bonus feat the fighter loses out on easily..

Poorly designed martial classes. PHB martial classes can afford to give up their class levels like this because their class levels aren't worth that much to begin with. Totemists and Tome of Battle classes have a much rougher trade.

[SowZ]

Poorly designed martial classes. PHB martial classes can afford to give up their class levels like this because their class levels aren't worth that much to begin with. Totemists and Tome of Battle classes have a much rougher trade.

Oh, yeah, I wouldn't trade maneuvour progression for a few points more in my physical stats. But I would for a fighter, rogue, (maybe,) monk, or Barbarian, (depending.)

[Endarire]

In general, LA isn't worth handling. Either the level adjustment sucks and you're better off being a Human or it rocks and you set a new standard.

Ability scores alone are usually a paltry +1 to +3 modifier. Look for spiffy racial abilities and unusual types and subtypes for potent LA.

[Talya]

Your ability generation method changes the value of an ability bonus, too.

For instance, if you're on a 25 point buy, a few bonus points become a LOT more impressive. An 18 in strength normally costs you 16 buy points, or 64% of your total. A goliath can get that 18 in strength for a mere 6 buy points, or 24% of your total. The goliath is saving you 40% of your buy points for use elsewhere.

Comparatively, if you're using a 40 point buy, that same 16 points is only 40% of your total, and the goliath is only saving you 25% of your points. Still impressive, but relatively less powerful.

Methods of generating ability scores that result in higher scores deflate the value of ability modifiers, and methods that result in lower scores inflate the value of ability modifiers.