Why is tavern music in video games always anoying?

[Yora]

Since this doesn't have anything to do with games as games, but is more about artistic choices by composers, I've put this in this forums.

I love CRPG soundtracks. There are many really great ones. But when you listen to them, every single one has one track that always gets me jump up and rush for the button to skip to the next one. And almost always, this is the music that plays in taverns in the game.
Even when you play the games, visuals and music go very well together. The whole game, you have very good background music, and as soon as you enter a tavern, it's a completely shift in style to a ren fair band, often with low audio quality to create the sound of it being played at the other end of a cramped room.

Baldur's Gate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15cZNG9r3RU)
Neverwinter Nights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpLTcxoK7Hs)
Neverwinter Nights 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9yXJ6aj7AE)
Knights of the Old Republic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNDokOtpZqQ)
Knights of the Old Republic 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I52-gQdz8Gs)
The Witcher (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzaDb5wFLH8&feature=related)
The Witcher 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8W4aa2-xk0)
Dragon Age (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVIlRzMmhjk)
Dragon Age 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGX_BUQO3E8)
In Final Fantasy it's not tavern music, but the abomination that is the Chocobo theme. I hate it in every game that it is in. Which is every game! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaMIg_q4LeY)

The shining exception is Mass Effect 2. The music in the Afterlife works really well, blasting through the doors to the streets outside.

Is it just me and there are actually people who think those make nice additions to the rest of the soundtrack?

[Sarco_Phage]

It bugs me almost as much as the generic "desert theme" sampling I seem to hear in every game with a desert level.

[Comet]

With the exception of the KOTOR 1 and NWN ones, I find every one of those pieces fun to listen to.

And the chocobo theme is also a lot of fun. Most of the time.

[Jahkaivah]

I love tavern music.

[Philistine]

Have you considered that maybe you're supposed to hate it? Maybe it's supposed to make you so sick that it drives you back out into the outside world (you know, where the adventure is).

[HFool]

Well, I think your Mass Effect example spells it out perfectly: Taverns are overplayed and clubs are the new taverns. In fact, from now on all RPGs will start out in some hot new club regardless of time or setting. :smalltongue:

That's just tavern music. It's either actual music taken from the time, music that tries to emulate it or music that tries to emulate the emulation (which is probably the most annoying if I had to guess). It's usually folksy, high energy melodies that are supposed to lighten the mood and I can get how that can get more than a little grating, but it's the appropriate type of music for those kinds settings (though some variety really, really wouldn't hurt).

I usually don't mind them and I actually got attached to the NWN 2 track, but music is the field where the phrase "different strokes for different folks" is really appropriate.

[Tiki Snakes]

To be fair, only two games in that list aren't by the same company. And Frankly, the Witcher is firmly cut from the same mold.

I'd be willing to assume that not all RPG's even HAVE a designated Tavern theme, really, let alone one that resembles what largely seems to be Bioware's official-company-tavern-theme. A Bioware RPG with recurring tropes? Surely not?!

If I had to guess, part of the idea is that it's supposed to sound a lot more like music actually being played in the Tavern, rather than being exactly the same as the rest of the soundtrack. This obvious difference in tone makes it stand out and in soundtrack album form, that's rarely going to be appreciated really.

[Philistine]

Psst - NWN2 and KotOR2 also weren't BioWare. (Both of those were developed by Obsidian.)

[Tiki Snakes]

Psst - NWN2 and KotOR2 also weren't BioWare. (Both of those were developed by Obsidian.)

Close enough that I ignore the distinction, though, really.

[Cespenar]

I'm enjoying the list right now, thanks!

[Drascin]

The shining exception is Mass Effect 2. The music in the Afterlife works really well, blasting through the doors to the streets outside.


Man, you and me are so completely opposite. I didn't mind most of the pieces you mentioned, I actually love the Chocobo theme, and I mute my headphones whenever I go into Afterlife because I hate the music! :smallbiggrin:

[Dr.Epic]

In Final Fantasy it's not tavern music, but the abomination that is the Chocobo theme. I hate it in every game that it is in. Which is every game! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaMIg_q4LeY)

I don't recall it in the first FF game.

[Lord Raziere]

I actually like those tavern themes. plus in A New Hope there was cantina music, the original star wars film, so why not have music in the others as well, I've always found them to fit.

and I like the Chocobo theme! it has good beat and pattern to it!

[Eldan]

There's Exceptions... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGjDvP2LlhU&feature=related)

[Nerd-o-rama]

Hating on the Chocobo theme? Are you serious?

Attack
Magic
Summon
>Choco-Mog
>Ifrit
>Bahamut-1729
>Hyadain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oDTUY6crEo)
>Gilgamesh
Item


In general though, no, I'm not sure why Taverns always seem to have in-world music playing as opposed to every other area having more of a cinematic BGM. I guess that's just because that's where people are playing music.


Well, I think your Mass Effect example spells it out perfectly: Taverns are overplayed and clubs are the new taverns. In fact, from now on all RPGs will start out in some hot new club regardless of time or setting. :smalltongue:Stealing this for my next game of NWoD.

[Giggling Ghast]

But I like the tavern themes in the Dragon Age games. :smallfrown:

[Velaryon]

I agree about the generic ren-faire tavern themes, though I must say the Dragon Age ones are at least a small cut above the others linked in the OP. I'm puzzled at the inclusion of the two themes from the KOTOR games though, as they aren't the same kind of music. Also, I like both songs, although I've never played either of the games.

I don't hate the generic tavern music, but it seems like a boring, overplayed choice. More games should deviate from that mold, instead of each doing the exact same thing.

The Afterlife music, which I looked up on youtube because I'm not familiar with that either, I don't care for at all. But I guess at least it's something different.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Why the heck would I want the sort of sweeping cinematic BGM music in a tavern. Walk into a bar in real life, unless someone is there live I bet you money the music is going to be moderately crappy lowest common denominator stuff. Which ren-fanfare capture pretty well I think.

Seriously unless its also an Epic Meal Time my bar doesn't need it an Epic Theme.


Hating on the Chocobo theme? Are you serious?

Attack
Magic
Summon
>Choco-Mog
>Ifrit
>Bahamut-1729
>Hyadain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oDTUY6crEo)
>Gilgamesh
Item


I'm not sure where you were aiming but you definitely scored a Critical Hit on me there.

*goes to listen to earworm for hours*

[Yora]

There's Exceptions... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGjDvP2LlhU&feature=related)

Planescape is also a notable exception. Because it works.
It's tavern music that fits well into the rest of the games soundtrack, it's not out of place.

[dromer]

Planescape is also a notable exception. Because it works.
It's tavern music that fits well into the rest of the games soundtrack, it's not out of place.

Sounds more like you hate tavern music for being out-of-place in the general mood of the soundtrack rather than the soundtrack itself.

IMO it's a case by case basis. I always enjoy it when music syncs up to game action, but I agree when you go from ambient music to the active and lively folk music, it's a jarring transition.

[Eldan]

There is the alternate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LANz4o1NCu8&feature=related), though, which is quite a bit worse and, I think, doesn't really fit. Guess that's why they left it out.

[Tengu_temp]

I don't find any themes from the OP's list annoying, and I even like some of them, like the NWN2 theme. Also, let me counter with Live A Live:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=605PgeY9HX0

[Matar]

There's Exceptions... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGjDvP2LlhU&feature=related)

There are indeed... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzYof5GjhQ8)

[Ravens_cry]

Yarr, be ye hating on Ye Olde Scumm Bar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZohwuRsZ2s8)? I cuts off yer 'ead and use yer skull to 'old me grog.

[Giggling Ghast]

Y'know, I notice most of this tavern music has a decidedly Celtic feel, with the exception of the Knights of the Old Republic cantina music. Perhaps, Yora, you just don't care for Celtic music?

It should be noted that the tavern music in Dragon Age changes when there's a brawl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohnFyM_-im8&feature=related).

[Elder Tsofu]

I'm of the opinion that they fit quite well, the bars/taverns tend to be quite relaxed compared to the rest of the world which more or less actively tries to kill you.
And as Soras Teva Gee said - save epic music for epic moments. :smallsmile:

Oh, and I think this is a better version of The Witcher tavern-themes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyG_mnBS6zg&feature=related), being an compilation and all.

[KillianHawkeye]

In Final Fantasy it's not tavern music, but the abomination that is the Chocobo theme. I hate it in every game that it is in. Which is every game!
I don't recall it in the first FF game.

That's because chocobos actually didn't premier until Final Fantasy 2j. I believe they've been in every single once since then (although I haven't played the latest games to be sure).

[Dr.Epic]

That's because chocobos actually didn't premier until Final Fantasy 2j. I believe they've been in every single once since then (although I haven't played the latest games to be sure).

Yeah, that was kind of my point.

[KillianHawkeye]

Yeah, that was kind of my point.

Sorry, I realize that the confused expression on your avatar may be influencing the way that I read your posts. :smallbiggrin::smallsigh:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

But I like the tavern themes in the Dragon Age games. :smallfrown:
I do too, especially in the Hanged Man. When you get into a fight there, it really kicks into awesomeness (sad because there are only one or two actual fights in there, and one's avoidable if you've got a certain companion with you).

[Zevox]

I don't recall it in the first FF game.
You know, I knew there were reasons I preferred FF1 to most of the other FF games I've played that didn't just have to do with the ATB and the inept storytelling of most of them.


There are indeed... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzYof5GjhQ8)
I see your beer song, and raise you The Tale of the Nuckelavee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JQpE7n6eUk).

(And for the hell of it, technically not a tavern song but it may as well be, Here's to the Bard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbsNlHANRbI).)

Zevox

[Dr.Epic]

Sorry, I realize that the confused expression on your avatar may be influencing the way that I read your posts. :smallbiggrin::smallsigh:

That's avatarism.:smallmad: You can't judge a poster based on their avatar, but the content of their post.:smallwink: What, should I just judge you as an angry knife-wielding guy?


You know, I knew there were reasons I preferred FF1 to most of the other FF games I've played that didn't just have to do with the ATB and the inept storytelling of most of them.

That and Black Mage was such a player!:smallwink: 8-bit Theater FTW!

Also, MILK BAR! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES-RQTRVLD8):smallwink:

[KillianHawkeye]

That's avatarism.:smallmad: You can't judge a poster based on their avatar, but the content of their post.:smallwink: What, should I just judge you as an angry knife-wielding guy?

Maybe you should.... :smallwink:

[BiblioRook]

I too would like to differ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZohwuRsZ2s8)

[Fiery Diamond]

How... how can you hate the chocobo theme? It's made of pure win! The only tune I like better all hours of the day from FF is "Battle on the Big Bridge," Gilgamesh's Theme.

[Daer]

Many found baldurs gate: dark alliance disappointing for not being much of rpg game but it had nice tavern song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt-z8PiENl4)

[Tiki Snakes]

Many found baldurs gate: dark alliance disappointing for not being much of rpg game but it had nice tavern song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt-z8PiENl4)

It was dissapointing for many reasons in advance of it being or not being RPG enough, frankly.
Not the worst Tavern theme I've heard, though.

[Mewtarthio]

Many found baldurs gate: dark alliance disappointing for not being much of rpg game but it had nice tavern song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt-z8PiENl4)

Oh, are we including nice, relaxing tavern music now? In that case, I nominate the tavern theme from NieR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1CjxQXXA7o&feature=feedlik).

(By the way, do you have a louder version of that Dark Alliance track? I'd like to listen to it without having to crank up my volume all the way).

What's really nice is that there is an actual singer NPC in the bar. The instrumental version of the song serves as the main village theme, and the vocal track gradually fades in as you approach the bar. It also fades out again if you interrupt the singer by talking to her.

[Yora]

I too would like to differ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZohwuRsZ2s8)

In what regard? I find this one particularly annoying.
Though it really comes down to how well a track fits into the rest of the soundtrack. When you get something completely different, that's when it gets the most annoying.

[Fiery Diamond]

In what regard? I find this one particularly annoying.
Though it really comes down to how well a track fits into the rest of the soundtrack. When you get something completely different, that's when it gets the most annoying.

I find myself unable to understand this mentality. Why must all the music in a game follow a single theme or style, or even a single group of themes or styles? The only potential "problem" I can see is if you have two tracks that are adjacent to each other (you move a screen over or start a battle to switch from one to another, for example) that are so COMPLETELY and TOTALLY different that the transition is jarring. And even then that's not a problem with the tune choices per se, just of placement.

[Yora]

It's like watching an animated movie, and suddenly there's a two minute scene of live action footage, and then it goes on animated without any explaination.
Variety is good, but you need consistency in the soundtrack. If you stick to one style for 95% of something, than stick to it for the other 5% as well.
I've played many games in which combat music was drastically different from ambient music, but they were consistent in this. But randomness in artistic style is always bad. That's an accustic Big Lipped Aligator.

[Zen Monkey]

Pretty much all of the music from Planescape: Torment was great, but here's the bar theme:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4QINNwR6Nw