PDA

View Full Version : Yet Another Stupid Vow of Poverty Fix [3.5, PEACH, Suggestions Welcomed]



Mr.Bookworm
2011-08-31, 09:33 AM
Vow of Poverty [Exalted]
You take on a sacred vow to live a life of poverty. In doing so, you gain great power.
Prerequisite: Sacred Vow
Benefit: See section below.
Special: To fulfill your vow, you must not use or own any material possessions, with the following exceptions: You may carry and use a single non-masterwork, non-magic weapon. You may wear a simple, unadorned set of clothes with no magical properties and a single change of clothes. You may carry enough simple, plain food and water to sustain you for a week. You may carry a simple sack to keep your belongings in. You may carry and use a spell component pouch. You may not use any sort of magical item, although you may benefit from the effects of spells. You may carry and use any item necessary to your class, although it must be as simple as possible - a cleric may carry a wooden holy symbol, a wizard may carry an unenchanted spellbook, and so on.

If you break your vow in any way, you lose all benefits of the feat, and you must wait a week. You may then rededicate yourself to the vow by having an atonement spell cast on you.

The Upside of Being a Violent Hobo on a Mission from God

{table=head]Level|Benefits

1st|+4 AC, fast healing, energy resistance 5

2nd|Bonus feat, damage reduction 5/magic, sanctuary

3rd|+5 AC, energy resistance 10/5, endure elements, resistance +1

4th|Exalted strike +2 (magic), skill bonus, immunities, bonus feat

5th|Sustenance, damage reduction 10/magic, protection from evil

6th|+6 AC, deflection +1, bonus feat, unbound movement 30 ft.

7th|Resistance +2, immunities, energy resistance 15/10/5, ability enhancement +2

8th|Natural armor +1, mind shielding, skill bonus, bonus feat

9th|+7 AC, type change, freedom of movement, resistance +2

10th|Exalted strike +4 (good), damage reduction 10/evil and magic, bonus feat

11th|Ability score enhancement +4/+2, unbound movement 60 ft., dimension door

12th|+8 AC, deflection +2, immunities, skill bonus, bonus feat

13th|Resistance +3, energy resistance 20/15/10/5

14th|Exalted strike +6 (cold iron and silver), true seeing, immunities, bonus feat

15th|+9 AC, ability enhancement +6/+4/+2, damage reduction 15/evil and magic, unbound movement 90 ft.

16th|Natural armor +2, mind blank, skill bonus, bonus feat

17th|Exalted strike +8, resistance +4, energy resistance i/20/15/10/5

18th|+10 AC, deflection +3, unbound movement 120 ft., improved dimension door, bonus feat

19th|Ability enhancement +8/+6/+4/+2, miracle, resistance +5

20th|Exalted strike +10 (epic), skill bonus, damage reduction 20/epic and evil, energy resistance i/i/20/15/10/5, bonus feat[/table]

AC Bonus (Su): At 1st level, you gain a +4 exalted bonus to AC. This bonus increases by 1 for every three levels thereafter.

Fast Healing (Ex): You gain fast healing equal to your character level.

Energy Resistance (Ex): You gain energy resistance 5 to an element of your choosing at 1st level. At 3rd level, this increases to 10, and you gain resistance 5 to another element. At 7th level, the first resistance increases to 15, the second to 10, and you gain a new energy resistance at 5 to another element. At 13th level, the first resistance increases to 20, the second to 15, the third to 10, and you gain a new resistance of 5. At 17th level, you gain immunity to your first element, resistance 20 to your second, 15 to your third, 10 to your fourth, and new resistance at 5. Anybody paying attention to this? At 20th level, you gain immunity to your second element, resistance 20 to your third, 15 to your fourth, 10 to your fifth, and energy resistance 5 to a final element.

Sanctuary (Su): You gain the constant effects of a sanctuary spell. You may turn it on and off at-will as a swift action. If you break the sanctuary by attacking, it requires a full-round action to turn back on.

Bonus Feats: At every even-numbered level, you gain a bonus feat which you must meet all prerequisites for. This feat must be an Exalted feat, [WIP]

Damage Reduction (Ex): At 2nd level, you gain damage reduction 5/magic. At 5th level this increases to 10. At 10th level, your damage reduction may only be penetrated by attacks that are both evil and magic. At 15th level, your damage reduction increases to 15. At 20th level, your damage reduction increases to 20 and may only be penetrated by attacks that are both epic and evil.

Endure Elements (Ex): At 3rd level, you become immune to the effects of hot or cold environments. You may exist comfortably in conditions between -50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit without making Fortitude saves.

Exalted Strike (Su): At 4th level, any weapon you wield or natural weapon of yours gains a +1 enhancement bonus and a magical property equaling a +1 bonus. At 10th, 14th, 17th, and 20th levels, both of these properties increase by 1. Your strikes are treated as magic at 4th level, as good at 10th level, as cold iron and silver at 14th level, and as epic at 20th level.

You choose the magical properties at the time of level-up, but may redistribute them by spending eight hours in meditation.

You may turn these enhancements off and on as a free action.

Skill Bonus (Ex): At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, you gain an enhancement bonus equal to your character level to one skill of your choosing.

Immunities (Ex): At 4th level, you gain immunity to disease and poison. At 7th level, you gain immunity to ability damage. At 12th level, you gain immunity to ability drain. At 14th level, you gain immunity to energy drain and negative levels.

Sustenance (Ex): At 5th level, you no longer need to eat, drink, sleep, or breathe. A spellcaster must still rest for eight hours.

Protection from Evil (Su): At 5th level, you gain the constant effects of a protection from evil spell.

Deflection (Su): At 6th level, you gain a +1 deflection bonus to AC.

Unbound Movement (Su): At 6th level, you gain fly (perfect), climb, swim, and burrow speeds of 30 ft. This increases to 60 ft. at 11th level, 90 ft. at 15th level, and 120 ft. at 18th level. If your natural movement speed is less than your Unbound Movement speed, you may substitute your Unbound Movement speed for your land speed.

Resistance (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain a +1 bonus to your saves. This bonus increases to +2 at 9th level, +3 at 13th level, +4 at 17th level, and +5 at 19th level.

Ability Enhancement (Ex): At 7th level, an you gain a +2 enhancement bonus to one ability score. At 11th level, you gain an extra +2 bonus to that score, and a +2 bonus to another ability score. At 15th level, you gain an extra +2 bonus to those two scores, and a +2 bonus to a third ability score. At 19th level, you gain an extra +2 bonus to those three scores, and a +2 bonus to a fourth ability score.

Natural Armor (Ex): You gain 1 point of natural armor at level 8. This increases to 2 points at level 16.

Mind Shielding (Ex): You become immune to the effects of detect thoughts, discern lies, and any attempt to detect your alignment.

Type Change: At 9th level, you become an Outsider with the Good subtype. You may still be brought back from the dead as if you were your previous type.

Freedom of Movement (Ex): At 9th level, you act as if permanently under the effects of a freedom of movement spell.

Dimension Door (Su): At 11th level, you may use dimension door every five rounds with a caster level equal to your character level. You may use it as a swift action and do not lose the rest of your actions in the turn. At 18th level, you may use this ability at-will.

True Seeing (Su): At 14th level, you act as if permanently under the effects of a true seeing spell.

Mind Blank (Ex): At 16th level, you act as if permanently under the effects of a mind blank spell.

Miracle (Su): At 19th level, you may use miracle once per day as supernatural ability.

Author's Note

So, I need help. No smartass comments. You know who you are. I've tried to come up with a package that can allow a VoP character to function just as well as a character without gear. I also threw in some stuff for gits and shiggles. Tell me if I missed anything. Also, tell me if you think this is too good, although note that this is more intended to be balanced for a VoP Warblade or Monk or any other Tier 3-ish and down class, not the CoDzilla, which you can break just fine without using this.

In particular, I would like advice on what would be good to put on the Bonus Feat list. Exalted feats, obviously, but there are like 4 of those that are remotely good, and there are 10 bonus feats. I'm thinking the Devotion feats from Complete Champion might be good to put on there, but if anyone has suggestions, they would be welcomed.

EDIT1: If anyone is reading those while trawling through the archives, and cares, note that I'm putting this on hold for a while until I work out what I'd like to do with this.

Seerow
2011-08-31, 09:53 AM
Honestly? There's a much simpler fix to Vow of Poverty that you're overlooking in your rush to give the feat everything and the kitchen sink.


1) Flat +X bonuses remain as you have them. The exact numbers could probably use a little tweaking (the VoP character should not have a free epic +10 weapon and armor for example), but whatever.

2) Bonus Feat progression slowed down, but opened up to anything, not just exalted feats (which suck). 4 real bonus feats is worth about 100x more than 11 exalted feats.

3) Everything else on that list? Just vanishes. Instead, let players pick magic items equivalent to say 1/2 their normal wealth by level (the rest is eaten up by all those passive buffs). They gain the effects of those items. At each level when the wealth by level increases, the character can choose to either upgrade two different effects they have to a stronger version of that effect, or may choose to trade out one effect for a completely unrelated effect.




The reason I suggest this is because frankly, you are never going to remember everything. Every PC is going to find themselves wanting something. If you really want VoP to be able to do everything, then let it literally do everything. If a player doesn't want to waste his effective wealth on mindblank because he can cast the spell and wants to be able to maximize his spells 3 times a day instead, then let him!

I'd also suggest allowing the character to get away with wearing non-magical non-masterwork armor, and cutting that huge armor bonus down. I don't really see how a Paladin wearing a rusty beat up suit of armor is violating his vow when he's giving away hundreds of thousands of gold pieces to the poor.


As an aside, I'm pretty sure if you added up the effective cost of everything you gave, as opposed to being far below WBL like the regular VoP, you probably went pretty far over already. At will quickened dimension door, and Fly(Perfect)/Move/Climb/Burrow/Swim speeds all at 120ft is something I wouldn't even know how to quantify monetarily.

Mr.Bookworm
2011-08-31, 10:11 AM
1) Flat +X bonuses remain as you have them. The exact numbers could probably use a little tweaking (the VoP character should not have a free epic +10 weapon and armor for example), but whatever

Maaaaybe. Given that if you're using the VoP-enhanced weapon, you're almost certainly a martial type. At level 20.


2) Bonus Feat progression slowed down, but opened up to anything, not just exalted feats (which suck). 4 real bonus feats is worth about 100x more than 11 exalted feats.

That is a good idea.


3) Everything else on that list? Just vanishes. Instead, let players pick magic items equivalent to say 1/2 their normal wealth by level (the rest is eaten up by all those passive buffs). They gain the effects of those items. At each level when the wealth by level increases, the character can choose to either upgrade two different effects they have to a stronger version of that effect, or may choose to trade out one effect for a completely unrelated effect.

Honestly don't like this idea. If you're going to do that, I would rather just make an alternate system where they get WBL and can use that to improve themselves.


I'd also suggest allowing the character to get away with wearing non-magical non-masterwork armor, and cutting that huge armor bonus down. I don't really see how a Paladin wearing a rusty beat up suit of armor is violating his vow when he's giving away hundreds of thousands of gold pieces to the poor.

The "huge armor bonus" is one of the things I left completely untouched from the original VoP.


As an aside, I'm pretty sure if you added up the effective cost of everything you gave, as opposed to being far below WBL like the regular VoP, you probably went pretty far over already. At will quickened dimension door, and Fly(Perfect)/Move/Climb/Burrow/Swim speeds all at 120ft is something I wouldn't even know how to quantify monetarily.

Probably. You get those things, though, at levels where you're going to be fighting balors and similar cookies or ancient evil sorcerer overlords with 9th level spells. Honestly, my base expectation for this was when I was thinking of the poor new guys who go VoP Monk.

...and really, is Climb/Burrow/Swim that much of a deal? It's more of a neat situational thing I threw in. I can't imagine it'll see much use.

Seerow
2011-08-31, 10:50 AM
Maaaaybe. Given that if you're using the VoP-enhanced weapon, you're almost certainly a martial type. At level 20.


And a martial type doesn't need a +10 weapon. A +5 gets you by just fine. If you want, you can let them grab +5 worth of extra properties (any weapon you pick up being a +5 Holy weapon of Speed probably both more valuable to the character in question and more consistent with every other rule in the game than a +10 weapon)


Honestly don't like this idea. If you're going to do that, I would rather just make an alternate system where they get WBL and can use that to improve themselves.


Then do that. I figure restricting a chunk of it to static bonuses that they were probably going to do anyway makes VoP flexible enough to not be useless, but does give the edge of 100% flexibility to people who don't take it. VoP makes up for that loss of flexibility in never having to worry about the DM taking your stuff, not giving you enough stuff, and giving you a few extra feats on the side to make nice.


The "huge armor bonus" is one of the things I left completely untouched from the original VoP.


And it's bad there too. Mainly it's the initial +5 exalted bonus to armor or whatever that makes it silly. They get this to make up for the fact that you don't actually get armor, but ignore that there are classes that also get bonuses to make up for not wearing armor. Not saying that Monks and their ilk become overpowered with it, but it does skew the RNG at low levels in a way that really can be easily avoided by just allowing people to keep their armor. And asthetically you imagine the Knight/Paladin who has taken vows still in his armor. He may not keep any wealth for himself, but he puts his trust in his steel.


Probably. You get those things, though, at levels where you're going to be fighting balors and similar cookies or ancient evil sorcerer overlords with 9th level spells. Honestly, my base expectation for this was when I was thinking of the poor new guys who go VoP Monk.

...and really, is Climb/Burrow/Swim that much of a deal? It's more of a neat situational thing I threw in. I can't imagine it'll see much use.

If what you want is to help the Monk, then fix the monk. Fact is you're giving a huge amount of mobility that can't actually be obtained via items, as part of a replacement for items. Your focus should be on replacing what is lost from WBL, not in trying to shore up every weakness everyone could ever have.

kestrel404
2011-08-31, 12:28 PM
I think that the best way to fix Vow of Poverty is not to add more static abilities to it. As Seerow says, you're never going to get everything, and if you try you're just going to end up with a massively overpowered feat that still doesn't do what player X wants.

Instead, use the original Vow of Poverty and write up a dozen and a half new exalted feats. Make them feat chains with really impressive abilities at the caps. For example:

Feat: Touch of the Divine (Exalted)
You are touched by divine favor, which in turn allows your touch to bestow healing.
Prerequisite: Charisma 13+, Sacred Vow, at least one Vow
Benefit: You gain the Lay on hands ability as a paladin of 1/2 your character level (minimum 1). If you already have the lay on hands ability, then your effective paladin level is increased by 1/2 your character level for the purposes of determining the number of points of damage you can heal per day. The total level may exceed your hit dice.

Feat: Spirit of the Divine (Exalted)
Prerequisite: Wisdom 13+, Sacred Vow, at least one Vow
Benefit: You gain a bonus to saving throws against spells and spell like abilities equal to your Wisdom modifier.

Feat: Mind of the Divine (Exalted)
Prerequisite: Intelligence 13+, Sacred Vow, at least one Vow
Benefit: Choose a number of skills equal to your intelligence modifier, or one plus one per four character levels - whichever is less. You gain a sacred bonus to those skills equal to 1/2 your character level (minimum 1). Whenever you would qualify to choose another skill, you may also choose to change one of your chosen skills. For example, if Kate is a 15th level wizard with an intelligence of 22. Her intelligence modifier is +6, while 1 + 1/4 her level (round down) is 4. She may thus choose 4 skills, each of which would gain a +7 sacred bonus. When Kate reaches 16th level, she may choose an additional skill, as well as re-choosing one of her chosen skills, giving her 5 chosen skills with a +8 sacred bonus.

Feat: Heart of the Divine (Exalted)
Prerequisite: Con 13+, Sacred Vow, at least one Vow
Benefit: Choose Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma. You gain a number of Essentia equal to the ability modifier of the ability you chose. If you already have an essentia pool, these essentia are added to your pool. You may treat Incarnum feats as though they were Exalted feats (i.e. if you gain a bonus Exalted feat, you may choose any Incarnum feat instead).

Feat: Blood of the Divine (Exalted)
Your inner divinity has grown to a point where you are no longer completely mortal. A single drop of divine blood flows through your vains, making you resistent to both mortal and unholy taints.
Prerequisite: Any two other Exalted feats with "of the divine" in their name
Benefit: You gain a sacred bonus to all saving throws against poison, disease and the spells and spell like abilities of evil outsiders equal to 1/2 your character level.

Feat: Gift of the Divine (Exalted)
Your divinity has begun to express itself in physical form.
Prerequisite: Blood of the Divine, Character level 6
Benefit: You grow a pair of wings. These give you a Fly speed equal to your base land speed, with average maneuverability. At 12th level, your fly speed becomes 1.5 times your base land speed with good maneuverability. At 18th level it becomes twice your base land speed with perfect maneuverability.

Feat: Form of the Divine (Exalted)
Your divinity becomes plain for all to behold. You shed your mortality like a butterfly sheds a cocoon.
Prerequisite: Gift of the Divine, Character level 12
Benefit: You gain the Celestial template. This does not change your effective character level, but it does change your type to Outsider if it is not already. You gain the Native subtype.

That's just an example. Two or three more feat-trees like that (perhaps with branching paths rather than diverse roots) and VoP becomes equal in power to items.

NeoSeraphi
2011-09-01, 12:53 AM
Sanctuary needs a save DC, probably either 11+Cha/Wis or 10+1/2 level+Cha/Wis.

Energy Resistance's progression is irregular. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it's a bit strange. I mean, you have it at level 1, then you wait 2 levels, then you wait 4 levels, then you wait 6 levels, then you wait 4 levels, then you wait 3 levels. Was that your intention?

I am amazed Seerow did not comment about the Fast Healing equal to your character level. Wow. That is just ridiculous. In some of my base classes, I've included Fast Healing, either limited to a certain number of round a certain number of times per day, or sometimes just a passive extraordinary ability, but I never went higher than 1/2 your class level. If WotC had posted VoP as saying "Spend 2 feats, be good-aligned, and give Fast Healing equal to your character level" I would use that with every character, give up all my WBL easily, even without all the other stuff you're giving them. Fast Healing 10 at 10th level is ridiculous for a monk, amazing for a sorcerer, and unbelievable for a barbarian. (And getting it at 1st level? Crazy)

What happens if you cast miracle when you don't worship a god?

...Wow. Endure elements I can handle. Freedom of movement? Sure, why not, the scout gets it. But I really, really hope you just mistyped when you said that mind blank is an extraordinary ability. The ability to be completely immune to all mind-affecting abilities...even in an anti-magic field and against dispels?