upgrading a recurring villian

[big teej]

greetings playgrounders.

after almost a year of out of game time (and about 8 months or so in game) a recurring villian is going to vex my party again.

-ahem- pardon me for a moment.

A note to my school players, if you are reading this, terrible things WILL happen. stop reading now.... no, seriously, click away now. go back to the main page.... ya know what, just to be safe, close the browser, and try again. thanks

the above does not apply to my summer group.

anyways.

last time the party fought the villian (Jaeger for those of you wanting a name)

he was designed to be a challenge in a 1 on 1 situation (which he offered the party, and the paladin took)

but trounced in the event that the party ganged up on him (which they did, much to the paladin's displeasure)

this time around, I expect them to gang up on him. as such, I plan to give him a bit more oomph.

Jaeger is a Fighter, his last fight had him focus on chain tripping and TWF

I'm looking for templates/feats/nifty items to jazz him up a bit this time around.

in addition to jaeger, the party will also have to fight somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 - 8 fiends. I have not determined what these will be yet, but that isn't important to you.


here is the party followed by my summarized questiosn
oh, and with the exception of the druid, everyone is 5th level
Costain, Lawful Good Human Paladin - charge smite ACF
Tarik, Neutral Good Dwarf Fighter - Racial Sub levels
Raulkor, Neutral? Good Gnome Cleric - casting houserule, see below
Arcilliere, Chaotic Good Human Barbarian
Zook, Chaotic Neutral Gnome Bard - casting houserule, see below
Lan, Neutral Good Human Ranger - TWF, uses a greataxe, favored enemy Humans

newbies/returning players
Halfing Rogue - never played dnd before.
Lawesse, True Neutral Druid - hasn't played in almost a year, casting houserule, see below. wolf animal companion


Casting houserule: instead of the "bonus spells for high stat" table, we use a simple + casting stat modifier rule. I.E. a 1st level cleric with a + 4 wisdom modifier would have +4 0 level and +4 1st level spells per day


question: what templates/feats/etc. do you recommend slapping on jaeger to make him a bit more threatening? I am currently considering slapping the half-fiend template on him and giving him a few more fighter levels. and then, when he reapears later, give him something like the Corrupted template or some other template that helps represent that each time he loses, he becomes less human.

oh, one last little tidbit that may be of help
typical party tactics/role in group.
Costain - easily the party leader, both in game and out, very tactically sound, but also prone to debatebly foolhardy actions

typical role: party tactician and planner, primary melee
usual tactics: run up to baddie and whale on them, or stand by the party and protect squishies, depends on what he feel the situation warrants. however, in the event that he feels the battle will turn against the party, he will charge the biggest threat and attempt to lock them down while the party escapes.

Tarik - a more thuggish counterpart to Costain's refinement. fights with a massive axe.
usual tactics: if the situation warrants it, he'll hang back until the enemy enters charge distance and plink at them with his crossbow. once the enemy is in range, he will typically enter melee as quickly as possible, both to slow down the enemy, and becuase this is where his damage potential is the highest.

Raulkor - the player is coming into a great understanding of his spells, and uses them effectively. he plays an excellent role buffing the party and using his spells to lock down/reduce threats outside the other member's ability to handle.

arcillere - combat brute, pure and simple, unlike tarik, she's liable to charge the enemy as soon as her initative comes up, especially if Costain can't get her to hold back quick enough.

Zook - party bard, only consistant contribution is inspire courage. and misfortunate bullet soak and bad luck magnet

Lan - tends to wade into melee at the earliest opportunity, typically prepares entangle for spells

Lawesse - very limited usefulness last time she played, she typically casts a spell or two per combat and/or session and fulfills the role of "hang back and see where I'm needed" while her wolf munches on fallen enemies.

Halfling - ???????????????????/


Gribnik and Fluffy - the gnome's badgers, they are typically used as either speed bumps, distractions, or bodyguards for the squishier members when costain, tarik, and arcilliere run off to battle.


if there are no further questions, please discuss how you would go about beefing up a recurring villian for round 2

[big teej]

so nobody has any suggestions or recomendations or just favorite ways to pump up a recurring villian for round II?

:smallfrown:

[Madcrafter]

If the party are also fighting some demons, he may not need a whole lot more improvement, slapping on a few more fighter levels and some gear may be all you need.

Seeing as your party seems very melee oriented with a few "lesscombatants," and the bad is a fighter, I would suggest going fairly mobile in terms of combat, having him quickly jump around tripping people and generally being a nuisance to the melee while beating down the biggest threats (depending on the tactics and goals of the fiends). Maybe some dungeoncrasher ACF domino knockdown (if you wish to go so far), and a weapon that can counter a charge/trip (guisarme perhaps). I don't know if you want to keep him as a TWF.
If you are not so opposed, converting him to a Martial Adept of some sort might give him the extra kick you are looking for.

[big teej]

If the party are also fighting some demons, he may not need a whole lot more improvement, slapping on a few more fighter levels and some gear may be all you need.

Seeing as your party seems very melee oriented with a few "lesscombatants," and the bad is a fighter, I would suggest going fairly mobile in terms of combat, having him quickly jump around tripping people and generally being a nuisance to the melee while beating down the biggest threats (depending on the tactics and goals of the fiends). Maybe some dungeoncrasher ACF domino knockdown (if you wish to go so far), and a weapon that can counter a charge/trip (guisarme perhaps). I don't know if you want to keep him as a TWF.
If you are not so opposed, converting him to a Martial Adept of some sort might give him the extra kick you are looking for.

the TWF isn't going to play in a whole lot this time (they stole his swords when they beat him last time, and I haven't decided how to replace them)

that said, those are pretty good ideas, with the demon's factored in he probably doesn't need a huuuuuge boost.

[Coidzor]

Does it have to be fighter levels?

If so, what general level is he going to be when he returns? (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) Fear is the Mindkiller, after all. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0)

And if he's going to have backup singers... Well, it's one way for him to get that slow waltz with the Paladin he was wanting.

Some pointers (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026&page=2) from Takahashi no Onisan (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=153726) might also be in order. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125885)

[Kurgan]

Depends on how optimized your party is, but you could always slap a few more levels of fighter on him, use the feats to double up into some archery abilities, and give one of his minions Plant Growth (phb262) as a spell like ability.

Suddenly the party has to cross jungle-like terrain at 5ft per round, as this guy plinks away for his d8/round if he hits.

Maybe give some of the minions flight or arbitrarily give them immunity to this effect and the players will be fighting tooth and nail just to get to him, and once they do, he is still competent, though not great, at melee.

Of course, this depends on the optimization of the group. If their characters have all the bells and whistles, this probably won't do all that much, and conversely if they are too under par, this might turn into a meat grinder. Either way it might give them a chance to change up their tactics a bit.

[Madcrafter]

... Either way it might give them a chance to change up their tactics a bit.

Exactly. Tactics is what makes fighting the bad interesting. Giving him 10 more fighter levels just so he can stand in place and take the punishment while wailing on the party in return is not very engaging. Using some tactical thinking also allows you to change the difficulty on the fly by making the villain make a mistake, or having a stroke of strategical genius. Either that or steal a leaf from the video games, and have multistage fights.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Okay, my two cents:

You're gonna need to find some way to lock that cleric down. If he knows what he is doing, he can shut down anything we're doing here. Same goes for the Druid if he knows what he is doing.

Now then, as to to your BBEG here...

Tripper is a fun build, but you need to capitalize on it. He's going to need high Dex and Combat Reflexes. Make sure he gets Karmic Strike, so he can trip in response to an attack to prevent a full attack dropping him.

Then, he's going to need a way to hit a lot of people at once. For this, my general go-to is War Hulk. Which requires a large size. So, let's see about doing something with that...

First off, how wedded are you to the mechanics having the word 'infernal' in it? I mean, we could make him a Tiefling, which nets him an okay Dex bonus, but we're needing some Large and In Charge here. So, how about this:

His demonic masters are going to give him another chance, and they're even gonna make him bigger and beefier so he has a chance of doing it right this time. So they warp and distort his poor body (a process which is infinitely agonizing), making him larger, and filling him with rage.

Mechanically, he's now a Goliath, with a dip in Barbarian, and Mountanous Rage. Go ahead and throw in Pounce while you're at it. Now he goes Large every time he rages.

The ability we're going for is Mighty Swing. He's hitting three opponents for the price of one. I don't think I need to tell you how much fun that is. Plus size bonus for tripping opponents smaller than he is, strength boosting out the ying/yang... yea, it's kinda like that.

As a word of warning: don't go for Power Attack/Shock Trooper combo with this unless you want a TPK. He's already going to be locking down most of the party his first attack, you don't want to one-shot-kill them as well.

So, he steps up, looking grotesquely fleshwarped but recognizable, and challenges the paladin again. Only this time, he's got his demon buddies waiting for the party to veto this. Have them go immediately after the two divine casters in the group to keep them occupied, and have him wade in and trip everything in sight.

You can also let him pick up Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill), which will keep chargers from hurting him, and with his high number of AoO's, it's gonna be hard to close with him.

Also, Tripper works best with Spiked Chain.

[Runestar]

Google for Jack B Quick. :smallbiggrin:

He is a TWF'ing fighter who hits 6 times for everytime he is attacked. :smallcool:

[Lord Vampyre]

I have to agree with Shneeky, just make him a Tiefling, but don't count this towards his levels. This will give him a slightly more demonic feel without him going full Half-Fiend yet.

Now, level him up to being a 5th level Fighter, gearing towards Black Guard. You should be able to use his WBL to deck him out fairly well. If you give him something like the Demonic Armor and/or the 9 Lives Stealer, the players probably won't want to keep or use it. This keeps you from potentially giving the players too many powerful magic items in one combat. Just be prepared in the event that the players do want to use it.

Now, since he got trounced the last time when he was using TWF, have him abandon that tactic. Instead have him retrain his feats into using a Greatsword with Whirlwind attack. This way, if the party surrounds him, he'll be able to attack all of them at the same time.

[Runestar]

He was defeated because the PCs gang-tackled him 6-1 and you want him to get surrounded again? :smalltongue: Generally, that is a bad idea, unless you really have some trick up your sleeve for punishing the party should they attempt such a stunt again (say some sort of death throes effect?).

If you ask me, this time, give him 2 wizards as backup casters who clog up the battlefield with walls of X, summons (which can trip/grapple), fog spells, tentacles etc. Meanwhile, the fighter (appropriately buffed) moves around picking off the party one by one.

For instance, a sudden-widened evard's tentacles to harry the party, while the fighter is protected with freedom of movement?

[big teej]

He was defeated because the PCs gang-tackled him 6-1 and you want him to get surrounded again? :smalltongue: Generally, that is a bad idea, unless you really have some trick up your sleeve for punishing the party should they attempt such a stunt again (say some sort of death throes effect?).

If you ask me, this time, give him 2 wizards as backup casters who clog up the battlefield with walls of X, summons (which can trip/grapple), fog spells, tentacles etc. Meanwhile, the fighter (appropriately buffed) moves around picking off the party one by one.

For instance, a sudden-widened evard's tentacles to harry the party, while the fighter is protected with freedom of movement?

it's slightly more complicated than that :smalltongue:

he offered to fight the party 1 at a time (and the party took him up on it)

however, a player who is no longer with us, moved up into a square from which he could melee the villian, he took this as an offensive action, and tripped the character.

thus cause the entire party to clobber him before his minions can get into melee.



this time around, jaeger (the villian) is going to appear right in the middle of the party planning something. along with about 6- 10 of those dretch demons from the BOVD

I like the idea of slapping tiefling on him for asthetics, I'm liable to do that.

as my plan is

round 1: human
round 2: tiefling
round 3: half fined
round 4: corrupted half fiend
round 5: Possessed, corrupted half fiend.... which will segway into a 2nd fight
round 6: Daemonhost

in round 5 I intend for Jaeger to be possesed by a fiend, and once jaeger is slain in this instance, the fiend itself will manifest and continue the fight.

so I need to be able to stretch out the transformation.... so I like the tiefling idea alot.


also, for the record, the group is extremely low op. the fighter and the paladin routinely outperform the druid.

[Runestar]

Instead of tiefling, you could use the half-fiend monster class here instead.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031010a

Each time they encounter him, he could have more fiendish traits.

Outside of that, not sure what other advice I could offer. Tripping-based npcs are not really my strongest trait. :smalltongue:

[Madcrafter]

If you ask me, this time, give him 2 wizards as backup casters who clog up the battlefield with walls of X, summons (which can trip/grapple), fog spells, tentacles etc. Meanwhile, the fighter (appropriately buffed) moves around picking off the party one by one.

For instance, a sudden-widened evard's tentacles to harry the party, while the fighter is protected with freedom of movement?

I don't think teej had a TPK in mind. One wizard by himself with tentacles might be enough to accomplish that.

If you want him to be a big hulking dude, then Shneeky's advice seems quite sound as well. It might be a bit much to give him all those things though (maybe if he was alone, without fiendish backup). Your party didn't sound like it was that highly optimized.

Edit: Well due to the foibles of public internet access, this post seems to have arrived at its destination six hours later.

[big teej]

I don't think teej had a TPK in mind. One wizard by himself with tentacles might be enough to accomplish that.

If you want him to be a big hulking dude, then Shneeky's advice seems quite sound as well. It might be a bit much to give him all those things though (maybe if he was alone, without fiendish backup). Your party didn't sound like it was that highly optimized.

Edit: Well due to the foibles of public internet access, this post seems to have arrived at its destination six hours later.

still good advice though.

-statement bolded for emphasis-

I never do. if I ever decided to TPK my party, I wouldn't need help with it, they are the 2nd on the list of people one of the kings of hell wishes to obliterate.

the above king of hell's top daemonhost-thing has been tasked with destroying them personally

the current villian we are discussiong, is a worshipper of the demon, and has also been assigned to kill them.

they slew a young dragon recently, I'd imagine that dragon's mother is going to be pretty cheesed off.

and, the party paladin has a necromancer that has it in for him personally.


if I ever wanted a TPK... they'd simply have to survive all their enemies... at once.

:smalltongue: