Help! How Would You Stat Up Jon Irenicus and Bodhi as a Vestiges?

[wayfare]

Hey all!

Running a 3.5 game soon involving a missing diety of death, and I wanted to give the Binder character in our group the option of taking these characters as vestiges. But I have never designed a vestige before, so I am looking for experienced brewers to come up with some ideas!

[Ziegander]

Hey all!

Running a 3.5 game soon involving a missing diety of death, and I wanted to give the Binder character in our group the option of taking these characters as vestiges. But I have never designed a vestige before, so I am looking for experienced brewers to come up with some ideas!

So, who are they (Jon Irenicus and Bodhi that is)? I have no idea who they are or where they come from, so links or something would be helpful. I've written several vestiges before, so with more information I'd be happy to do it again.

[Mulletmanalive]

Irenicus was the Ex Machina spouting main villain from Baldur's Gate 2.

I presume Bodhi was the horribly excuse for a villain in Throne of Bhaal [if you include Demogorgon and then produce a fairly vanilla baddy i can't be bothered chasing...you lose my interest].

They were both demigods [in the traditional sense] of Bhaal, who knowing about his own impending death, fathered a bunch of them during the time of troubles so they could Highlander it out and he would kind of accumulate in the last survivor and be reborn.

[Kallisti]

Irenicus was the Ex Machina spouting main villain from Baldur's Gate 2.

I presume Bodhi was the horribly excuse for a villain in Throne of Bhaal [if you include Demogorgon and then produce a fairly vanilla baddy i can't be bothered chasing...you lose my interest].

They were both demigods [in the traditional sense] of Bhaal, who knowing about his own impending death, fathered a bunch of them during the time of troubles so they could Highlander it out and he would kind of accumulate in the last survivor and be reborn.

Bodhi was Irenicus' creepy vampire sister, as I recall. The villain in Throne of Bhaal was someone else (it's supposed to be a secret, even if it a fairly obvious twist).

Bodhi's relatively easy--her main schtick was 'vampire', so energy drain, mind control, mist form, undead traits. Irenicus is more difficult.

Generally a vestige has three or four powers, some of which will be continuous buffs and some of which will be supernatural abilities usable once per five rounds. There's exceptions, but that's the basic format. What level of vestige did you want.

[Sciina]

Irenicus was the Ex Machina spouting main villain from Baldur's Gate 2.

I presume Bodhi was the horribly excuse for a villain in Throne of Bhaal [if you include Demogorgon and then produce a fairly vanilla baddy i can't be bothered chasing...you lose my interest].

Actually, Bodhi's a villian from Baldur's Gate 2 as well, she's the one the runs the vampire group you can join instead of the Shadow Theives

[Mulletmanalive]

Actually, Bodhi's a villian from Baldur's Gate 2 as well, she's the one the runs the vampire group you can join instead of the Shadow Theives

I stand enlightened. I obviously don't remember her because the boss of that section went down before she could start monologuing at me. Mace of Disruption ftw

[wayfare]

Wow, I thought there would be more BG II fans on here.

Well, Irenicus was basically the elven version of Elminster, according to the Baldurs Gate series. He was an elven mage who fell for a Chosen of Corellon and queen of the elven kingdom. He couldn't stand being below her in status, so he attempted to elevate himself to godhood and almost succeeded.

He was stripped of his elven heritage, which caused him to slowly decay. He sought to regain his elven soul, and then decided, "what the heck, why not just steal the soul of a demigod." Which he successfully did.

Without that power, he was successfully able to defeat multiple high level wizards. In terms of D&D 3.5, Irenicus is doubtless an Epic level character.

When he steals the Soul of the Child of Bhall, he uses its power to tape an elven artifact tree and funnel the power of the elven nation into himself to attain godhood. He only fails because the Child of Bhall regains his soul and exiles Irenicus to some hell.

Awesome things Irenicus did:

Stealing an Elder Silver Dragons eggs to prevent its attack
Challenging the elven pantheon and attempting to steal divinity from the gods
Stealing the souls of 2 demigods
Bargaining with the Drow
Summoning a demonic Avatar of the God of Death
Slaying the Wardens of a Prison for the Magically Deviant and taking over that prison himself.

So, to be clear, Irenicus is not a child of Bhall, but he stole the soul of two demigods.

[wayfare]

Is giving a Vestige the bility to cast spells a bad idea?

I was thinking something like this:

Withering Magic: Irenicus was a mage of the highest order, but the cost of his hubris was the elven vitality that fueled his might. Irenicus grants incredible power to those who bargain with him, at the cost of their own life-force.

Those who are bound to Irenicus can cast spells from the following list. Each time the character casts a spell, he takes Constitution damage equal to the spell level cast. This damage cannot be circumvented or recovered outside of normal rest -- any mystic attempt to heal this damage automatically fails and inflicts an additional point of Constitution damage on the Binder.

Saving throws for spells cast while Irenicus is bound are (10 + Intelligence Modifier + 1/2 level). Caster level is your EBL.

Level 1: Magic Missile
Level 2: Blur
Level 3: Ray of Exhaustion
Level 4: Stoneskin
Level 5: Cone of Cold
Level 6: Globe of Invulerability
Level 7: Insanity
Level 8: Horrid Wilting

[Golden-Esque]

Okay, first thing's first.

If you're going to make Vestiges, first you should decide on the Vestige's level. Remember that Vestiges can be ranked from Level 1 to Level 8. Vestige Level is not necessarily how powerful the Vestige is; it is better described as how difficult it is to summon the Vestige, taking in factors such as willingness to be summoned and how difficult it is to acquire the lore required to draw it's seal. For your case, if the villains in question are A) powerful and B) recently transformed into vestiges, it would probably be very difficult to find this information, as the PC Binders would be pioneers in searching for that eldritch lore.

Second, as a general rule, it's fine to allow a binder to gain spell-like abilities from a vestige. It's generally a bad idea to break theme with said powers, however. For example, your list has a wide variety of damage, buffing, and utility spells, all in a wide array of focus.

Instead of a scaling list, I would probably pick a much more localized list of spells that go with the theme of my vestige. If it is a vengeful, angry spirit, try giving it mostly damaging spells of a similar theme. IF it's sneaky, stick with invisibility; maybe zone of silence.

[Wardog]

Slaying the Wardens of a Prison for the Magically Deviant and taking over that prison himself.

To elaborate:

* Agreed to be taken in (after dictating the terms on which he would do so), because he got bored of insta-killing waves of extremely powerful magical enforcers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk0sOGVSAP4).

* Then, once captured and imprisoned, effortlessly broke out and a slaughtered the guards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22Ki7yp2XL0).

(Indeed, the whole think could easily have been a Xanatos Gambit to get himself a new base of operations).

[katarl]

edit- this is what I thought of when I heard Irenicus would be made a vestige. Hopefully you'll be able to draw something from it.

Jon Irenicus
Level 4 Vestige
DC 24

Sign: You annunciate everything you say as if you were a Shakespearean actor.

Special Requirement: You must take every opportunity you can to increase your power, regardless of taste or morality, and you will not stand to have someone more powerful in the room with you.

Granted Abilities:

Torture? You have no idea what I'm doing, do you?:
You may use Wrack as a Spell-Like ability, once per 5 rounds. If the target fails their saving throw, you steal part of their essence, gaining a +2 divine bonus to attacks, saves and skill checks for 1 round. At 12th level, the penalties from Wrack increase to -6, and you gain a +3 divine bonus. At 15th level, the penalty increases again to -8, and you receive a +4 divine bonus.

Do you even know whom you face?:
You are constantly considered to be under the effects of the spell Misdirection with a caster level equal to your binder level.

Silence dog, you have no purpose but to die by my hand:
The round immediately after successfully using your Wrack spell-like ability, you may use Phantasmal killer as a spell-like ability, either on the same target, or on a different opponent. At 19th level this ability improves, allowing you to use Howl of the Banshee instead. After using this ability you cannot use it again until you successfully affect another opponent with your Wrack ability.

You *will* accept the gifts offered to you.
You may grant the bonus you gained from your Wrack granted power to an ally within 30ft as a free action.

I cannot be caged! I cannot be controlled!
You gain immunity to mind affecting effects and spells. Combined with Do you even know whom you face?, you may pretend to be affected by these abilities as if you possessed the False Pretences spelltouched feat.

[Ziegander]

First of all, I don't mean to offend you, but this may feel blunt.


If you're going to make Vestiges, first you should decide on the Vestige's level. Remember that Vestiges can be ranked from Level 1 to Level 8. Vestige Level is not necessarily how powerful the Vestige is; it is better described as how difficult it is to summon the Vestige, taking in factors such as willingness to be summoned and how difficult it is to acquire the lore required to draw it's seal.

Vestige Level is absolutely an indicator of how powerful the vestige is. While that may correlate to the difficulty of binding checks for a given vestige it's intended purpose is to create a clear distinction of power between vestiges of different levels. Note: Binding DCs of vestiges within the same level are not at all equivalent, meaning that there are vestiges within the same level that or more or less difficult to bind with than one another.


Second, as a general rule, it's fine to allow a binder to gain spell-like abilities from a vestige. It's generally a bad idea to break theme with said powers, however. For example, your list has a wide variety of damage, buffing, and utility spells, all in a wide array of focus.

It seems like you're missing the point as the whole theme of the Vestige he presented is that it was a powerful, versatile, and godlike Wizard in life.

[georgie_leech]

Perhaps you might make use of a few of the unique abilities and traits of Irenicus?

Off the top of my head:

Manifestation: Irenicus appears as a ghostly shell of what was once an elf. The apparition stands 7 feet tall, with an usually defined musculature for an elf. He wears a fine suit of leather armour, though the many scars and burns that cover him show it had failed him. His face is disfigured, with bulging veins standing out on his forehead, from beneath a spiked skull cap. He wears a perpetually bored expression; no mirth or emotion ever touches his face. The exception is his eyes, which glow with an eerie, black light. They radiant an unmistakble anger, and lust for power gone forever unsatiated.

Sign: When a binder makes a pact with Irenicus, their ears warp and become twisted, appearing as a rotten mockery of elven ears.

Influence: Under the influence of Irenicus, binders cultivate a lust for power that makes them reckless, eager to take great risks if it means they could grow stronger. They also display an unusual distrust and disgust for elves.

Granted Abilities:
Voice of Enthralment--Your words resonate in a rich baritone; those of weak minds and will cannot help but listen to the exclusion of all else. Grants a +2 to Diplomacy and Bluff checks. Creatures with levels or hit dice equal to 5 less than your total level can be fascinated with a diplomacy check, even if such creatures cannot understand what you say. Affected creatures must make a will save with a DC of 10+EBL+CHA modifier or stand fascinated for CHA mod rounds. Using a diplomacy check to fascinate in this manner is a minor action.

Empty Soul--Irenicus was punished for his transgressions by having his very soul taken from him. The experience made him incappable of emotion, an experience most sane minds have difficulty comprehending. Once per day, the binder may cause an opponent to suffer effects equivalent to the Crushing Despair and Doom spells if they fail a will save (DC=10+EBL+INT Mod). The duration for this effect is 1 hour/level.

Create Clone--Irenicus long sought to recreate the love he once felt, but his attempts were hollow, dead things. Creates a physical copy of a target humanoid or monstrous humanoid with the same HP, defences, base attack bonus, and ability scores. This clone is of the same race and type as the target, with the same racial abilities and modifiers as the target. The clone is considered to be the same level or have the same hit dice as the target. The clone has all of the natural attacks of the target (e.g. a humanoid has unarmed attacks, a minotaur can gore opponents, etc. NOTE: clones do not gain the improved unarmed damage of a monk, nor any psionic abilities). This ability does not grant any supernatural abilities. The clone is naked when formed, with no equipment of any kind. This clone cannot speak coherently, possesses none of the memories of the target, and cannot otherwise mimic the target's personality. The clone is affected by rage as if under the effects of a Barbarian's Rage ability. This rage is permanent, and compels the clone to attack the target creature to the exclusion of all else. If the target creature dies, the clone attacks the nearest creature instead, whether an an enemy of the binder or ally. After the target creature dies, the clone takes ongoing 15 damage that cannot be mitigated or resisted in any way. This ability may not be used while a clone created from this ability lives. This ability may only be used once per day.

Call of the Father--Irenicus, having long lived in a soulless state, is quite adept at ripping out the souls of other beings. This is a spell-like ability that functions as the spell Power Word: Kill. This ability may not be used for 5 rounds after it has been used.

[lesser_minion]

The vestige list isn't really meant to be expanded -- any binder is assumed to have access to any vestige she's high enough level for. As a result, if you add a new vestige to the game, you're giving binders a free lunch.

When you give with one hand, you should seriously consider taking with the other. In this case, that probably means picking a couple of vestiges with a similar theme and coming up with a reason to excise them from the game.

The other problem I saw here is that you're giving out immunity to mind-affecting. Since binders get that for free just from being bound to any vestige once they're high enough level, that doesn't strike me as a good idea, especially since you're giving it out before a binder gets the ability normally.

And finally, you've made this whole thirst for power thing into a special requirement. Shouldn't it be an influence?

[Morph Bark]

The vestige list isn't really meant to be expanded -- any binder is assumed to have access to any vestige she's high enough level for. As a result, if you add a new vestige to the game, you're giving binders a free lunch.

Relevant (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060324a). (Also to the thread as a whole.)