Are Wands Light Weapons?

[Tibbaerrohwen]

The Wandstriek feat let's you melee touch attack with a wand.
For the purpose of Weapon Finesse and/or TWF, are wands considered light weapons?

Thanks.

[Thespianus]

The Wandstriek feat let's you melee touch attack with a wand.
For the purpose of Weapon Finesse and/or TWF, are wands considered light weapons?
I doubt there's a RAW ruling here, but it seems odd if they were not light weapons. They weigh about an ounce, so...

[BlackestOfMages]

I'd say so - it's a twig, you'd have to have put in a lot of effort to find a heavy wand.

specifically since they weight less than a dagger:smalltongue:

[Vizzerdrix]

Two handed power attacking with a wand would be sweet though. :smalltongue:

[B!shop]

I don't think a wand could be considered a weapon at all.

[Andreaz]

I don't think a wand could be considered a weapon at all.
Anything is a weapon if you state so. Being not in the list just means it's improvised.

To me, it's either an improvised sap, dagger or stick. Generic 1d4 for medium creature stuff. Either way it's a light weapon.

A good reference, if you want, is the (not quite) psionic feat Dorje Strike. Lets you treat dorjes (wands) as daggers. I think it lets you cast upon hitting too, or was it upon critting?

[Darrin]

Take a light mace. Add a wand chamber (100 GP, Dungeonscape). Now it's a light weapon.

[Cog]

Wandstrike requires a standard action, so you can't TWF, and it allows no extra damage of any kind, so you can't Power Attack. The handedness of a wand is entirely irrelevant, as far as I can tell.

Edit: Durr, except for Weapon Finesse. The lightness of wands combined with the fact that you're making a touch attack should mean Finesse works easily.

[Gwendol]

A "light" weapon has little correlation with weight (!). It has to do with the size of the weapon.


Improvised Weapons
Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses one in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a -4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

If we agree the wand is an improvised weapon there is support in the rules to consider it being a light weapon, and thus finessable.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Wandstrike requires a standard action, so you can't TWF, and it allows no extra damage of any kind, so you can't Power Attack. The handedness of a wand is entirely irrelevant, as far as I can tell.

Edit: Durr, except for Weapon Finesse. The lightness of wands combined with the fact that you're making a touch attack should mean Finesse works easily.

I knew that no extra damage applied. It would also apply for TWF is you wanted to dual wand wield (to determine the penalty).
Do you think you could dual wand strike with dual wield?

Thanks.

[Cog]

could dual wand strike with dual wield?
As I explained in the post you quoted, no, you cannot two-weapon-fight with Wandstrike.

[Xtomjames]

A wand is a light improvised melee weapon, it does 1d3 damage and has a 50% chance of breaking when striking an object if the hardness of the object is equal to or greater than the hardness of the wand.

[Cog]

A wand is a light improvised melee weapon, it does 1d3 damage and has a 50% chance of breaking when striking an object if the hardness of the object is equal to or greater than the hardness of the wand.
1) This is entirely unrelated to the Wandstrike feat referenced in the original post.

2) Got a citation for that? Complete Warrior is the most comprehensive reference for improvised weapons that I'm aware of in the actual rules. Hardness doesn't factor into those rules, and any improvised weapon breaks on the roll of a 1.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

2) Got a citation for that? Complete Warrior is the most comprehensive reference for improvised weapons that I'm aware of in the actual rules. Hardness doesn't factor into those rules, and any improvised weapon breaks on the roll of a 1.

I have to back Cog on this one. I though the aforestated was the go-to rule for improv. weapons.

I really do which you could two weapon fight with wandstrike, or at least get multiple attacks in with wandstrike.

Let's try for that. What can you do to get multiple wandstrikes/standard actions in a round?

[Cog]

What can you do to get multiple wandstrikes/standard actions in a round?
There's the Celerity-line spells and Factotum, mainly. Finding some way to grab a Choker's (Su) Quickness ability works as well.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

There's the Celerity-line spells and Factotum, mainly. Finding some way to grab a Choker's (Su) Quickness ability works as well.

Perfect, thank you.

Can you wandstrike so long as the wand is readied? For example, if a wand was in a wand chamber, could you still wandstrike with it? I imagine the weapon/shield's damage would be revoked and replaced with that from wandstrike, correct?

[Tibbaerrohwen]

[double post, please disregard]

[Xtomjames]

1) This is entirely unrelated to the Wandstrike feat referenced in the original post.

2) Got a citation for that? Complete Warrior is the most comprehensive reference for improvised weapons that I'm aware of in the actual rules. Hardness doesn't factor into those rules, and any improvised weapon breaks on the roll of a 1.

See http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/MSRD:Improvised_Weapons, it's also the rules from d20 Modern

[Cog]

See http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/MSRD:Improvised_Weapons, it's also the rules from d20 Modern
Somehow I think Complete Warrior is a little more relevant as a reference for 3.5 than d20 Modern is.

Re: Wandstrike: A wand in a wand chamber can be activated, but that is all. Wandstrike requires you to directly attack with it, so no.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Somehow I think Complete Warrior is a little more relevant as a reference for 3.5 than d20 Modern is.

+1. My inquiry, though I never stated directly but figured was apparent from the feat reference, is directed towards 3.5. As such, d20 modern isn't really that helpful. Still, I appreciate now knowing how wands work in modern. I never really bothered to look because I prefer guns in modern.


Re: Wandstrike: A wand in a wand chamber can be activated, but that is all. Wandstrike requires you to directly attack with it, so no.

I figured as much, but it never hurts to ask. Thanks again Cog. With the way things are going, every time someone is answered with correct material post-haste it'll have to be referred to as being Coged.

[Wardog]

1)Hardness doesn't factor into those rules, and any improvised weapon breaks on the roll of a 1.

That... sounds abusable.

Elrond: "Anyone got any ideas on how to deal with this?"
Frodo: "I attack the wall, using the One Ring as an improvised weapon."
Sauron:" NOOOO!!!!"

[Zonasiy]

That... sounds abusable.

Elrond: "Anyone got any ideas on how to deal with this?"
Frodo: "I attack the wall, using the One Ring as an improvised weapon."
Sauron:" NOOOO!!!!"

I think it would be more amusing to do this with a person.

[Urpriest]

Wands aren't weapons at all. Wandstrike allows you to use the wand to make a melee touch attack, which is a light weapon in and of itself.

[Cog]

I figured as much, but it never hurts to ask. Thanks again Cog. With the way things are going, every time someone is answered with correct material post-haste it'll have to be referred to as being Coged.
Gotta maintain my reputation somehow...


That... sounds abusable.
Oh, definitely. Worse still is when you make improvised attacks while wielding a creature instead.

Worse unless you're wielding a gnome, anyway.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Oh, definitely. Worse still is when you make improvised attacks while wielding a creature instead.

Worse unless you're wielding a gnome, anyway.

This is true. Though, could you imagine a build around that. A large or huge sized character that grappled enemies into submission then uses them as improvised great clubs, with the hope of rolling a 1.

[Socratov]

I'd say so - it's a twig, you'd have to have put in a lot of effort to find a heavy wand.

specifically since they weight less than a dagger:smalltongue:

how about I craft a wand out of metal. Or enchant a greatclub to be a wand :D

[Cog]

A large or huge sized character that grappled enemies into submission then uses them as improvised great clubs, with the hope of rolling a 1.
Idle thought: how many of the Luck feats allow you to accept a lesser reroll?


Or enchant a greatclub to be a wand :D
Alas, not how wands work. Most are under a foot long, but all are "thin batons".

[AugustNights]

Tried finding a direct quote as to what sort of attack was, and as far as I could get were these.


Touch Attacks
Some attacks disregard armor, including shields and natural armor. In these cases, the attacker makes a touch attack roll (either ranged or melee). When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn’t include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally.


Your attack bonus with a melee weapon is: Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + size modifier


Weapon Finesse
With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.

It may be because I'm just using the SRD, but I can't find any literature concerning whether or not a Touch attack is a typed weapon beyond "melee" or "ranged". With grapple it speaks about a "special unarmed attack," but that may be only for grapple checks. So, I guess my question is two fold: "With a light weapon...on attack rolls" since the wand is not a weapon, is the wielder unarmed, which would make the Touch attack an unarmed strike of sorts, which is a light weapon? If not, where does it specify that a touch attack is a weapon, or a light weapon? (It seems that this would conflict with a Fighter making a touch attack with their scythe in order to make a trip attack.)

[Urpriest]

It may be because I'm just using the SRD, but I can't find any literature concerning whether or not a Touch attack is a typed weapon beyond "melee" or "ranged". With grapple it speaks about a "special unarmed attack," but that may be only for grapple checks. So, I guess my question is two fold: "With a light weapon...on attack rolls" since the wand is not a weapon, is the wielder unarmed, which would make the Touch attack an unarmed strike of sorts, which is a light weapon? If not, where does it specify that a touch attack is a weapon, or a light weapon? (It seems that this would conflict with a Fighter making a touch attack with their scythe in order to make a trip attack.)

Complete Arcane specifies that touch attacks (perhaps only with spells) can benefit from Weapon Finesse.


Idle thought: how many of the Luck feats allow you to accept a lesser reroll?


This road has already been explored. There was an Iron Chef Drunken Master who used the "on a roll of 1 the weapon becomes broken and useless" and maximized his chance of rolling a 1.

[AugustNights]

Urpriest; half ur, half priest, all gentleman. Thank you, sir.