Immediate action teleportation.

[Lateral]

Aside from Abrupt Jaunt, what are some methods of teleporting that use an immediate action? Spells are okay, but I probably won't be able to use it if it's above a 3rd level spell.

Also, say I have the Sun School tactical feat. Can I use an immediate action teleport (such as Abrupt Jaunt) to interrupt a charge by teleporting next to them during their movement, hitting them (using the Sun School tactical feat) and doing something that causes them to be unable to complete the charge (I.E tripping them, pushing them backwards, et cetera)?

[TroubleBrewing]

Contingent Spell: Teleport springs to mind. Time Stop will also work for this.

A Vanishing weapon (+2 enhancement, MIC) allows you to 1/day teleport 60ft after a successful melee attack, which could theoretically be an attack of opportunity. (EDIT: It's actually a swift action activation.)

EDIT: Looks like all I've got are the first two. Pity about the weapon, though.

[poignant123]

Leaping Flame, from Tome of Battle.

[dextercorvia]

Stand (PHBII)

Celerity works with another spell.

[Xander_Phoenix]

Shadow Cloak from Drow of the Underdark, p.101.

[Lateral]

Shadow Cloak from Drow of the Underdark, p.101.
Looks useful. Not too expensive, either.


Stand (PHBII)

Celerity works with another spell.
...Stand? The spell that lets someone stand up from prone? How is that helpful? :smallconfused:

Celerity's actually a great idea, though. I don't really want the character to be a primary caster, but Lesser Celerity plus a move action teleport would be a good way to get some more immediate action teleports.


Leaping Flame, from Tome of Battle.

Leaping Flame is a fifth level maneuver; I'm not sure if I could fit it into a build. It could be a good way to negate archers, though.


Contingent Spell: Teleport springs to mind. Time Stop will also work for this.
The spells are far too high-level, unfortunately- again, I'm trying to keep spellcaster levels at a minimum.

[TroubleBrewing]

The spells are far too high-level, unfortunately- again, I'm trying to keep spellcaster levels at a minimum.

Oooof, sorry. Didn't catch that bit in the OP. Can you post the build requirements, maybe some background on the game so we've got more info?

[dextercorvia]

...Stand? The spell that lets someone stand up from prone? How is that helpful? :smallconfused:


It is an immediate action Conjuration(Teleportation) that can result in you being adjacent to your foe. Falling to prone is a free action, just do that at the end of your turn. Then, pop up before you are attacked and smack them around again.

[ILM]

Anklet of Translocation, MIC, 2/day immediate 10' teleport, 1.4k gp. All my characters want at least one.

[Lateral]

Oooof, sorry. Didn't catch that bit in the OP. Can you post the build requirements, maybe some background on the game so we've got more info?

Don't worry; I didn't actually add that part until after you posted, anyway- forgot about it.

I'm planning on a Telflammar Shadowlord build- I'm not sure on the specifics yet, but it'll definitely have 2 levels in Totemist to help qualify for Shadowlord via Blink Shirt (and have an at-will move action teleport of at least 30 feet.) I'm also taking at least one level of Wizard- either Conjuror or Focused Conjuror with the Martial Wizard and Abrupt Jaunt ACFs, to snag a bonus Fighter feat and Abrupt Jaunt. (Might go to level 3 for Lesser Celerity, though.) It'll probably also have either Swordsage or Rogue levels, too, to qualify for the SA requirement. Probably Swordsage levels; they're more useful. Might also add a dip in Shadowdancer- I need the prereqs for Shadowlord anyway, and Su HiPS is pretty nice.

The basic idea in combat is to teleport around hitting people. Simple enough. I was also planning on having him interrupt foes' attacks by using immediate-action teleport/full attacks and some way to prevent them from attacking. Haven't decided how that's going to happen yet- probably with Improved Trip, if I can fit in the feat. (The build's already a bit feat-starved.)

[Boci]

Anklet of Translocation, MIC, 2/day immediate 10' teleport, 1.4k gp. All my characters want at least one.

Swift, not immediate.

[CigarPete]

You can get an immediate action teleport from the Deception subdomain in PF, if you feel like making it a partial Cleric build.


Sudden Shift (Sp): In the blink of an eye, you can appear somewhere else. As an immediate action, after you are missed by a melee attack, you can teleport up to 10 feet to a space that you can see. This space must be inside the reach of the creature that attacked you. You can use this power a number of times each day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

[Jude_H]

There's Flicker, for Immediate teleportation for CL rounds, available as a 3rd level mystery or 4th level vestige.

[Person_Man]

There's Flicker, for Immediate teleportation for CL rounds, available as a 3rd level mystery or 4th level vestige.

Flicker is a really potent example. It's a Standard Action to activate, and once activated, you can make an Immediate Action movement every round until it expires. So unless you're swarmed by enemies, it's basically impossible to pin you down. You can also Move, use a Standard Action, and then Immediate Action move again when it's most convenient, allowing you to move around (or through, with the right preparation) walls or terrain, making many attacks against you impossible.

[faceroll]

Flicker is a really potent example. It's a Standard Action to activate, and once activated, you can make an Immediate Action movement every round until it expires. So unless you're swarmed by enemies, it's basically impossible to pin you down. You can also Move, use a Standard Action, and then Immediate Action move again when it's most convenient, allowing you to move around (or through, with the right preparation) walls or terrain, making many attacks against you impossible.

Oooh, Binding getsd some neat stuff. Does that come with a [teleportation] descriptor? Cause now you can shadow pounce when it is not your turn!

[Tvtyrant]

It is actually shadow magic, not binding. Shadowcasters only!

[faceroll]

It is actually shadow magic, not binding. Shadowcasters only!

Jude H stated that it was both :smallconfused:

[Person_Man]

It is actually shadow magic, not binding. Shadowcasters only!

A Binder with the Tenebrous vestige bound can use the Flicker mystery once per day, twice at effective Binder level 13, and three times per day at effective Binder level 19. Tenebrous also grants Turn or Rebuke Undead once every 5 rounds, 20% concealment (through Deeper Darkness which he is immune to), and a minor damage buff. So it's a fairly good secondary vestige to bind at level 13 or higher, especially if you're going with a "caster" Binder style instead of the more traditional melee trick Binder route. Though by that point you also have access to Zceryll, Desharis, Haures, Vanus, and The Triad, which are all even more useful. So I probably wouldn't use it unless you're not allowed to use online vestiges.

As an interesting side note, the cruddy Tenebrous Apostate prestige class grants access to the Umbral Body mystery, which gives you the Incorporeal Subtype, which would also be ridiculously useful if the vestige ability wasn't once per day for Tenebrous Apostate level*2 rounds.

[Darrin]

Greaves of Aundair (5000 GP, Forge of War p. 124). +10 speed, and 3/day "immediately take a move action", but you're dazed until the end of your next turn. However, Quick Recovery (Lords of Madness) could help with that... DC 11, I think to avoid the daze.

From there, you can Shadow Stride (Martial Study feat, no prereqs other than IL, or use the Scholar version of the Shadow Hands discipline item) as a move action.

[Psyren]

As an interesting side note, the cruddy Tenebrous Apostate prestige class grants access to the Umbral Body mystery, which gives you the Incorporeal Subtype, which would also be ridiculously useful if the vestige ability wasn't once per day for Tenebrous Apostate level*2 rounds.

I wouldn't call it "cruddy" - Tenebrous Apostate is highly useful, because you can stack it on top of Anima Priest (divine Anima Mage adaptation, ToM pg. 53) to get max-level cleric casting and soul binding.

Cloistered Cleric 3/Binder 2/Anima Priest 10/Tenebrous Apostate 5 gets you:

17th-level Cleric Casting (9ths)
16th-level Binding (18 with Improved Binding - 3 vestiges up to 8th level, the max)
All the goodies from both PrCs e.g. Vestige Metamagic and Umbral Body
Suppress Sign from Binder 2
Access to both Turn and Rebuke undead
Rebuke = Character level - 1
Three domains

You're all set for epic - just keep taking levels of Anima Priest, and you're free to grab Epic Spellcasting and Epic Vestiges as appropriate, along with Improved Spell Capacity and tons of metamagic.

[Lateral]

A Binder with the Tenebrous vestige bound can use the Flicker mystery once per day, twice at effective Binder level 13, and three times per day at effective Binder level 19. Tenebrous also grants Turn or Rebuke Undead once every 5 rounds, 20% concealment (through Deeper Darkness which he is immune to), and a minor damage buff. So it's a fairly good secondary vestige to bind at level 13 or higher, especially if you're going with a "caster" Binder style instead of the more traditional melee trick Binder route. Though by that point you also have access to Zceryll, Desharis, Haures, Vanus, and The Triad, which are all even more useful. So I probably wouldn't use it unless you're not allowed to use online vestiges.

Does it count as a teleportation effect? That is, could I shadowpounce with it? If so, that's perfect. What's the absolute lowest number of Binder levels I'd need to grab it? (That includes using any necessary feats to get it faster.) This would be perfect- even a single use/day would give me a full encounter of immediate teleports.


Greaves of Aundair (5000 GP, Forge of War p. 124). +10 speed, and 3/day "immediately take a move action", but you're dazed until the end of your next turn. However, Quick Recovery (Lords of Madness) could help with that... DC 11, I think to avoid the daze.
Ah, so it's like Lesser Celerity 3/day. Nice. Quick Recovery will probably be helpful too; thanks.

[Psyren]

Does it count as a teleportation effect?

Yes, Flicker has the (teleportation) descriptor. You can get Tenebrous at Binder 5 with Improved Binding.

[Person_Man]

Does it count as a teleportation effect? That is, could I shadowpounce with it? If so, that's perfect. What's the absolute lowest number of Binder levels I'd need to grab it? (That includes using any necessary feats to get it faster.) This would be perfect- even a single use/day would give me a full encounter of immediate teleports.

Yes, it is specifically a Conjuration (Teleportation) effect, so I think it would count. You need 7 Binder levels, or 5 Binder levels + the Improved Binder feat, or 6 Shadowcaster levels to use it as a Mystery. You could also pull it off with various Binder or Shadowcaster PrC options.

You might also want to consider Binder 8. That would allow you to bind a second vestige, which could be Dantalion. He has the Thought Travel ability, which is Standard Action teleportation once every five rounds, usable Binder level times per day. The Scion of Dantalion PrC makes it a Move Action, and in general is a fairly potent option for other cool effects as well.

[Lateral]

Yes, Flicker has the (teleportation) descriptor. You can get Tenebrous at Binder 5 with Improved Binding.

Awesome. Okay, so that's 5 binder levels, 3 wizard levels, 2 levels of totemist, 2 levels of Swordsage (spaced out a bit so that I'll have an IL of 5 when I take the second one), and at least 4 levels of Shadowlord. I may end up dropping all but the first Wizard level, since I'd only be able to use Lesser Celerity maybe twice per day. This build might also be kind of MAD, since it needs INT as well as physical stats, but I could just get a Feycraft weapon and obviate the need for STR.


You might also want to consider Binder 8. That would allow you to bind a second vestige, which could be Dantalion. He has the Thought Travel ability, which is Standard Action teleportation once every five rounds, usable Binder level times per day. The Scion of Dantalion PrC makes it a Move Action, and in general is a fairly potent option for other cool effects as well.
Maybe, but three levels for a standard action teleportation usable maybe once per fight seems like a little much for a build that's already pretty heavily multiclassed.

Actually, how many Wizard levels do I need for Anima Mage? A dual-progression PrC could shave some levels off of this build.

Edit: Second-level spells and a second-level vestige. Okay, then- with Improved Binding, that's 3 Wizard levels and one Binder level- if I take four levels of Anima Mage, it's the same number of levels as before, but I also get fourth-level spells. That could be good- I could use some of those spells, just for versatility, and it could be a nice way to use any extra levels.

[Psyren]

Actually, how many Wizard levels do I need for Anima Mage? A dual-progression PrC could shave some levels off of this build.

Either 1 or 3, depending on how your DM feels about early-entry tricks. You can meet the skill reqs at first level (provided you have a way to get Intimidate as a class skill, but Binders have it at least), so the only hurdle is the 2nd-level spells.

[Lateral]

Either 1 or 3, depending on how your DM feels about early-entry tricks. You can meet the skill reqs at first level (provided you have a way to get Intimidate as a class skill, but Binders have it at least), so the only hurdle is the 2nd-level spells.

Ah. I suppose I could use Precocious Apprentice; that shaves two levels off of the build. I'd feel a bit dirty about it, though.

Let's see about the BAB, though. With fractional BAB, it's 3.25 for the level in Wizard, the level in Binder, and four levels in Anima Mage, plus 3 for the Totemist and Swordsage levels, plus 3 for the four levels of Shadowlord that I'm guaranteed to take. That makes 9.25 BAB in 14 levels. By comparison, a straight 3/4 BAB class gets 10.5 BAB at 14th level- that's about a point's difference. Okay, I can live with that.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

It would probably be easier to get Flicker as an actual Shadowcaster, than go through Binder shenanigans. As it's a 3rd level Mystery, you can use it as a Spell-like ability twice per day at level 7. You'd have to wait for effective binder level 13 to duplicate that. You can also pick up Extend Mystery and Favored Mystery to make it a Supernatural ability (and thus also 3/day) and extend the duration by 50%.

You can also use Nocturnomancer to combo Shadowcaster with Wizard.

If you want to use Precocious Apprentice early entry tricks, you can pull this off by level 4.

Wizard1/Shadowcaster3/Nocturnamancer4/Totemist2 would be the build.

Without early entry, you've got Wiz3/Shadowcaster3/Nocturnamancer4/Totemist2/Shadowpouncer5

You won't need Swordsage with this build, because you already have move-action teleportation through Blink Shirt.

Going to Nocturnamancer7 lets you use Flicker more often, if you counterspell or dispel opponent spells.

[Flickerdart]

Bind vestige + Vestige, Improved lets you enter Anima Mage without any Binder levels.

[Allanimal]

How about a Warlock with Quicken SLA on his Flee the Scene invocation? It is actually a free action teleport.

[Psyren]

Ah. I suppose I could use Precocious Apprentice; that shaves two levels off of the build. I'd feel a bit dirty about it, though.

You're a Binder :smalltongue: The assumption is that you're already reading things that society would really rather you didn't. If you happen to pick up a 2nd-level spell from your mentor's spellbook during your poking around, so much the better.


Bind vestige + Vestige, Improved lets you enter Anima Mage without any Binder levels.

This is true - however, once you add on Anima Mage those feats become dead weight.


How about a Warlock with Quicken SLA on his Flee the Scene invocation? It is actually a free action teleport.

The trouble with free actions is that they can only be done on your turn (barring certain exceptions like speaking) whereas Immediates can be done anytime.

[Lateral]

Wizard1/Shadowcaster3/Nocturnamancer4/Totemist2/Swordsage2/Shadowpouncer5

Cool! Alright, then, let's compare. The Binder build is Wizard 1/Binder 1/Anima Mage 4/ Totemist 2/ Swordsage 2/ Shadowlord 4.

The Wizard casting, initiating, and meldshaping levels are the same in both builds. Both builds qualify for Shadowlord at a minimum of 8th level, so long as I can get all of the feats in time- shouldn't be a problem with the Mobility enhancement. The Shadowcaster build needs more levels to get into the dual-progression PrC, but that's okay since I don't plan on taking any more than four levels either way. The Shadowcaster build also gets two uses/day of Flicker, at seven rounds per use- essentially setting me on Immediate teleports for two combats every day. Nice. It takes a total of 16 levels to get everything I need, whereas the Binder build requires 14. So, the question is, is two levels worth a second use of Flicker? I think it probably is.

Only problem is, I have no experience with shadowcasting. Can anyone give me a quick rundown on how it works?

Also, can anyone answer the question in the OP?

[Flickerdart]

Only problem is, I have no experience with shadowcasting. Can anyone give me a quick rundown on how it works?

Also, can anyone answer the question in the OP?
Re: question, yes - if you trip the character, he cannot continue to charge. Precedent for acting in the middle of someone else's movement exists with the Halt spell.

Shadow magic works like this - every level, choose a mystery, except you don't just get to choose any mystery you want. There are Paths (apprentice (1-3), initiate (4-6) and master (7-9)), and you must take the mysteries in a path in order. So to get Flicker, you have to take the 1st level mystery in that path at 1st or 2nd, and the 2nd level one at 3rd or 4th. Each mystery that you learn, you can cast once per day (at first). You can take the mystery more than once, however, and Mystery Focus (IIRC) upgrades the category of it (spell - spell-like - supernatural) by 1, explicitly granting you more uses. So if you take Flicker at levels 5, 6 and 7, and then take Mystery Focus (Flicker) it becomes a supernatural ability and you get nine uses total.

[Psyren]

Only problem is, I have no experience with shadowcasting. Can anyone give me a quick rundown on how it works?

Also, can anyone answer the question in the OP?

Concerning the Sun School question, I have no idea - ToB isn't my strong suit. Though I'm sure by the time I post this someone else will help out.

Concerning shadowcasting, it works just like magic - there are only a few minor differences.

1) Mysteries only have somatic components - no verbal and no material. To determine what you're casting, someone has to actually see you.

2) Mysteries start out following the same rules as arcane spells (including ASF and AoOs), then shift to being SLAs, and finally shift to being Supernatural, as you gain shadowcaster progression (with all the benefits of each step gained along the way.) For the exact progression, check ToM pg 112.

For more info (including gear, feat and mystery choices) check out Gorfnab's excellent Handbook. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11610.0)

[Lateral]

Shadow magic works like this - every level, choose a mystery, except you don't just get to choose any mystery you want. There are Paths (apprentice (1-3), initiate (4-6) and master (7-9)), and you must take the mysteries in a path in order. So to get Flicker, you have to take the 1st level mystery in that path at 1st or 2nd, and the 2nd level one at 3rd or 4th. Each mystery that you learn, you can cast once per day (at first). You can take the mystery more than once, however, and Mystery Focus (IIRC) upgrades the category of it (spell - spell-like - supernatural) by 1, explicitly granting you more uses. So if you take Flicker at levels 5, 6 and 7, and then take Mystery Focus (Flicker) it becomes a supernatural ability and you get nine uses total.

Cool, thanks.

...Wait, nine immediate-action uses? If I'm doing that, then I don't even need Abrupt Jaunt or Celerity. Instead, I could drop Wizard entirely; it would reduce the number of feats required to pull this off, reduce the levels by one, and get rid of the part of the build that I'm not quite comfortable using. Better yet, are there any shadowcaster prestige classes with 3/4 or even full BAB?

[Lateral]

Concerning the Sun School question, I have no idea - ToB isn't my strong suit. Though I'm sure by the time I post this someone else will help out.
Well, the question also applies to Shadow Pounce.


For more info (including gear, feat and mystery choices) check out Gorfnab's excellent Handbook. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11610.0)
Nice. I'll take a look.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Cool, thanks.

...Wait, nine immediate-action uses? If I'm doing that, then I don't even need Abrupt Jaunt or Celerity. Instead, I could drop Wizard entirely; it would reduce the number of feats required to pull this off, reduce the levels by one, and get rid of the part of the build that I'm not quite comfortable using. Better yet, are there any shadowcaster prestige classes with 3/4 or even full BAB?

Shadowblade is a 3/4 BAB class, but it doesn't advance Mysteries at all, which kind of sucks. Class abilities are... decidedly sub-par as well, unless you have a reliable method of making opponents denied dex bonus to AC, since it does get Sudden Strike. Well, if you take it to capstone, you can use Hidden Blade with it, as a free action, otherwise it sucks up too many actions.

Shadowsmith is a full BAB shadow-like class. You get a couple more Mysteries, but it has it's own independent progression which doesn't stack with, or benefit from, your shadowcaster ones. So while you get to expand the breadth of your mysteries, you don't necessarily get more uses of Flicker, until you get to Shadowsmith9. Arguabally, your metashadow feat which increases the rank of the mystery should also apply to Flicker, if you take it at Shadowsmith9, which gives you two additional uses of Flicker per day.

Other than that, Shadowsmith also gives you everything Soulknife wishes it was, by being able to craft even enchanted weapons and armor out of shadow. It also gets (effectively) Pass Without Trace, and the ability to share it with the party.

[Flickerdart]

There's Shadowsmith, but in its 10 levels you only ever get three mysteries, so you would only have Flicker 1/day (or 2/day with the feat).

Edit: Sun School isn't ToB, it's a feat in CWar.

[ILM]

Swift, not immediate.
What? But... I... Huh? They must have changed it while I wasn't looking!

I'm having a Twilight Zone moment here... I would have sworn it was an immediate action (though clearly, with the book open in front of me, it isn't).

Mind blown.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

There's Shadowsmith, but in its 10 levels you only ever get three mysteries, so you would only have Flicker 1/day (or 2/day with the feat).

Edit: Sun School isn't ToB, it's a feat in CWar.

So if you have Sun School, *AND* you have Shadow pounce from another source (crinti, tefflamar) do you get the bonus attack AND the bonus full attack?

[Lateral]

So if you have Sun School, *AND* you have Shadow pounce from another source (crinti, tefflamar) do you get the bonus attack AND the bonus full attack?

Yeah. There's no reason you wouldn't. I just don't know if you can interrupt an action with it. (Obviously I can take it between two actions, but can I use it during an action? (It's instantaneous, immediate movement, so I don't see why you couldn't, but I'm not sure how the rules are.)

[Psyren]

Other than that, Shadowsmith also gives you everything Soulknife wishes it was, by being able to craft even enchanted weapons and armor out of shadow.

Well, let's be fair here. SS can't actually make a +1... anything... until SS6. Thanks to the BAB requirement, that puts you at a minimum of level 11 - possibly later - before you can make a +1 weapon. Now, I'm no math expert, but I do believe Soulknife beats that, at least. You also need to succeed at a DC 20+X craft check and take a full-round action.

It catches up quickly to Soulknife (the WotC one anyway) quickly though, somewhere around level 13-14. But while +5 is the highest it can ever make, the Soulknife can get up to +9 once you add in the weapon bonuses.

Having said that, the base class you use with this can easily allow you to outstrip a soulknife - just not at the weapon creation, at least for awhile. Furthermore the adaptation makes this crazy good - you can form all your toys out of pure force. Even before you get the magical ones this is good, letting you smack down ghosts and other such nasties.

[Geigan]

Are you making this for a campaign? If so, what level are you starting at? There are a lot of fun ways to do T. shadowlord, but I generally prefer to get into it asap to avoid waiting around for shadowpounce. Remember if you're going for totemist you need to use your blink shirt last in any combos because you can't take any action after you use the teleport effect(damn dimension door clauses *grumble*).

Totemist 2/ shadowcaster 5/ T. Shadowlord 4 to start is my preferred build. Hopefully with some sort of standard action teleport, possibly from an item(my fave is dimension stride boots, MIC pg 94).

edit: my bad forgot about sneak attack prereq

re edit: a build that I actually used once was shadowcaster 6/swordsage 2/T. Shadowlord 4, with the shadowwalker template for it. Comes out with shadow pounce at lvl 13. You'd have to use items like boots of swift passage for your move action teleports. 5/day but still limited.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Well, let's be fair here. SS can't actually make a +1... anything... until SS6. Thanks to the BAB requirement, that puts you at a minimum of level 11 - possibly later - before you can make a +1 weapon. Now, I'm no math expert, but I do believe Soulknife beats that, at least. You also need to succeed at a DC 20+X craft check and take a full-round action.

It catches up quickly to Soulknife (the WotC one anyway) quickly though, somewhere around level 13-14. But while +5 is the highest it can ever make, the Soulknife can get up to +9 once you add in the weapon bonuses.

Having said that, the base class you use with this can easily allow you to outstrip a soulknife - just not at the weapon creation, at least for awhile. Furthermore the adaptation makes this crazy good - you can form all your toys out of pure force. Even before you get the magical ones this is good, letting you smack down ghosts and other such nasties.

Shadowsmith, however, lets you make ANY weapon/shield/light armor. Soulknife needs to expend feats to do this. So you could easily make yourself a glaive to do your tripping business with. You also get to add Shadow Striking for free, which is a significant bonus.

So it is more flexible and versatile, and Shadow Striking really offsets the enhancement equivalents a Soulknife can apply to his blade.

If I were doing a re-write of Soulknife, it would probably incorporate something like Shadow Craft so the class isn't hopelessly pidgeonholed or crippled by lack of weapon choices.


Are you making this for a campaign? If so, what level are you starting at? There are a lot of fun ways to do T. shadowlord, but I generally prefer to get into it asap to avoid waiting around for shadowpounce. Remember if you're going for totemist you need to use your blink shirt last in any combos because you can't take any action after you use the teleport effect(damn dimension door clauses *grumble*).

Totemist 2/ shadowcaster 5/ T. Shadowlord 4 to start is my preferred build. Hopefully with some sort of standard action teleport, possibly from an item(my fave is dimension stride boots, MIC pg 94).

edit: my bad forgot about sneak attack prereq

the tactical feat explicitly states that you get your attack after a DimDoor, so specific overrides general. I believe T. Shadowlord or C.Shadowstriker has similar language.

[Geigan]

the tactical feat explicitly states that you get your attack after a DimDoor, so specific overrides general. I believe T. Shadowlord or C.Shadowstriker has similar language.

But does that mean he can use the rest of his teleports in the same turn? Only if he does the dimension door effect last.

Oh, I forgot about shape soulmeld(blink shirt). You can take that instead of the template in the build above and get shadow pounce at 12th level.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

But does that mean he can use the rest of his teleports in the same turn? Only if he does the dimension door effect last.

Oh, I forgot about shape soulmeld(blink shirt). You can take that instead of the template in the build above and get shadow pounce at 12th level.

However, you don't get move-action blinking, which opens up potential WRT shennanigans, AND nets you a free standard action to buff with before launching your attacks. Or activating Flicker, so you can, as an immediate action, teleport.

You won't be able to use any more teleports that round anyway, since your actions are done for the round. Then, when it is no longer your turn, you can then use an immediate action to teleport when something is attacking you, for another full attack.

[Geigan]

However, you don't get move-action blinking, which opens up potential WRT shennanigans, AND nets you a free standard action to buff with before launching your attacks. Or activating Flicker, so you can, as an immediate action, teleport.

You won't be able to use any more teleports that round anyway, since your actions are done for the round. Then, when it is no longer your turn, you can then use an immediate action to teleport when something is attacking you, for another full attack.

Sure valid points, I just prefer to get shadow pounce as early as possible. That's as good as I could do and still manage to get flicker in there. The more levels you have to play around with the better you can have all your actions covered for teleports, without having to resort to magic items. Still trying to figure out a way to get an immediate, move, and standard by 7th level. You could go rogue 2/totemist 2/ swordsage 3 but you wouldn't manage to get even a swift until later unless you pick up an item, and never an immediate.

edit: Actually, dimension door effects specify you can't take actions until your next turn. So that last bit about immediate teleporting after your turn isn't going to work. If you want 3 full attacks a turn you have to use your immediate action on your own turn if you're using any sort of dimension door effect which will leave you unable to reactionary teleport until your next turn regardless. Otherwise you have to resign yourself to teleporting once your turn and then waiting to react with your immediate before your next turn. Unless of course you can find 3 teleports, with no dimension door clauses. Teleport items actually are pretty useful in this case since most of the best ones don't have the dimension door clause at all.

[Lateral]

Honestly, I'm liking the current outline of the build. Hopefully, if I can pull off the feats in time, I'll go Swordsage 1/ Totemist 2/ Monk 1/ Shadowcaster 3/ Swordsage +1/ Telflammar Shadowlord 4/ Shadowcaster +3. I think it should do well enough at all levels; at 1st, he'll be a normal swordsage, and by 3rd he'll have switched to using maneuvers and 'porting around to escape retribution. During the first two Shadowcaster levels, I am a bit worried that he'll lose a lot of steam due to Shadowcasting being pretty lackluster and his being a multiclass character, but at 6th level he can pick up Sun School. From there on out, he should be pretty well set. I was thinking of maybe taking a dip in Shadowdancer for HiPS afterwards, since I'll easily have the prereqs, but that's not really as important.

Really, the only problem is feats. For the build to work, I need a variant of Dodge (probably Expeditious Dodge), Mobility, Spring Attack, Blind-Fight, Weapon Finesse, Mystery Focus, and Sun School, plus I was hoping to get Shadow Blade, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip and maybe Knockdown. Mobility and Finesse can be obviated via feats, but that still leaves nine feats. I can take the Passive Way monk variant to get Combat Expertise as a bonus feat, so that's eight left. I need four of them before 9th level, too; can I afford the Mobility enhancement before then?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Honestly, I'm liking the current outline of the build. Hopefully, if I can pull off the feats in time, I'll go Swordsage 1/ Totemist 2/ Monk 1/ Shadowcaster 3/ Swordsage +1/ Telflammar Shadowlord 4/ Shadowcaster +3. I think it should do well enough at all levels; at 1st, he'll be a normal swordsage, and by 3rd he'll have switched to using maneuvers and 'porting around to escape retribution. During the first two Shadowcaster levels, I am a bit worried that he'll lose a lot of steam due to Shadowcasting being pretty lackluster and his being a multiclass character, but at 6th level he can pick up Sun School. From there on out, he should be pretty well set. I was thinking of maybe taking a dip in Shadowdancer for HiPS afterwards, since I'll easily have the prereqs, but that's not really as important.

You don't need dips for HiPS.

since you need a few additional Mysteries on your way to flicker, you can pick up:

1:Steel Shadows: +3 Armor bonus *AND* +3 Shield bonus to AC.
2:Sight Eclipsed: HiPS
3:Voice of Shadows: Command
4:Congress of Shadows: mostly useless, but prerequisite
5:Flicker
6:Flicker
7:Flicker

Carpet of Shadow is also a fun level 1 Mystery for area-effect battlefield control

[Geigan]

What did you say you were making this for btw?

I love the T. Shadowlord PrC because there are just so many ways to make it work. It's just really fun to build around, though I'm not as keen to play them because your main shtick typically doesn't come online for so long.

[Lateral]

Not for any specific campaign. It's a concept that I'm hoping I can get to use eventually, but I don't have any campaign in mind at the moment.

[Allanimal]

The trouble with free actions is that they can only be done on your turn (barring certain exceptions like speaking) whereas Immediates can be done anytime.

D'oh! I forget sometimes that feather fall is the exception and not the rule when it comes to free actions...

[Psyren]

D'oh! I forget sometimes that feather fall is the exception and not the rule when it comes to free actions...

Feather Fall is an immediate action. Are you perhaps reading the 3.0 version? The "Swift" and "Immediate" designations were created for 3.5.

[Cog]

...so you would only have Flicker 1/day (or 2/day with the feat).
Favored Mystery only gives you more uses/day if you already have the mystery as a supernatural ability.

[Allanimal]

Feather Fall is an immediate action. Are you perhaps reading the 3.0 version? The "Swift" and "Immediate" designations were created for 3.5.

My 3.5 PHB says it is a free action. It is not changed in the errata, either, at least the errata I have on hand. D20srd.org, however, does list it as immediate. Interesting....

[Cog]

My 3.5 PHB says it is a free action. It is not changed in the errata, either, at least the errata I have on hand. D20srd.org, however, does list it as immediate. Interesting....
It wasn't errata, because being a free action wasn't a mistake - swift and immediate actions didn't even exist. It's only with the introduction of those action types in other supplements that there's a need to change those basic PHB rules to match, but now nearly every supplement has to reintroduce the new actions since they were never part of the core game.

[Psyren]

My 3.5 PHB says it is a free action. It is not changed in the errata, either, at least the errata I have on hand. D20srd.org, however, does list it as immediate. Interesting....

As part of the example of free actions that become Immediate/Swift under the new rules, Rules Compendium errata'd Feather Fall specifically to an Immediate action (RC 125.) This explains the change being incorporated on the SRD.

Also - in general, few to no spells have a "free action" casting time anymore, because if they did you could cast them as many times on your turn as you wanted to. Instead, all such spells that have the "even when it's not your turn" qualifier became Immediate, while the ones that require it to be your turn (as well as all Quickened spells) became Swift.

I did, however, forget that the PHB predated the creation of these action types.

[Seffbasilisk]

OP put my original thought out of the realm, and I've already been outclassed in this.

Original thinking was Greater Celerity, Standard action (insert teleport of choice), move action Quick Recovery.

Also works with Celerity, but then you're dazed for a full round where everyone can act before you even have a chance to recover.

Edit: Yes, if you attack and some way interrupt movement mid-movement, you negate that portion of it, and they can standard action attack, or spend their standard action as a second move action to merely move that round.

A good combo is the 3rd level spell 'Halt' against a charging foe, who then has used a full-round, not reached you, and may self-immolate in frustration. Immediate action casting time.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Favored Mystery only gives you more uses/day if you already have the mystery as a supernatural ability.

Making it a supernatural ability moves it from 2/day to 3/day by itself.

[Cog]

Making it a supernatural ability moves it from 2/day to 3/day by itself.
No it does not.

1) Uses per day are given by table 2-2 on page 113, and are based on equivalent spell level. The table is referenced by the text, instead of merely being a summary of what's described in the text.

2) The feat itself says it does not give more uses unless the mystery is already a supernatural ability.

[dextercorvia]

OP put my original thought out of the realm, and I've already been outclassed in this.

Original thinking was Greater Celerity, Standard action (insert teleport of choice), move action Quick Recovery.

Also works with Celerity, but then you're dazed for a full round where everyone can act before you even have a chance to recover.

Edit: Yes, if you attack and some way interrupt movement mid-movement, you negate that portion of it, and they can standard action attack, or spend their standard action as a second move action to merely move that round.

A good combo is the 3rd level spell 'Halt' against a charging foe, who then has used a full-round, not reached you, and may self-immolate in frustration. Immediate action casting time.

It doesn't work like that. You didn't begin your turn dazed, so you can't use quick recovery on the same turn that you use Greater Celerity. You still have to wait for your initiative to come back around.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

No it does not.

1) Uses per day are given by table 2-2 on page 113, and are based on equivalent spell level. The table is referenced by the text, instead of merely being a summary of what's described in the text.

2) The feat itself says it does not give more uses unless the mystery is already a supernatural ability.

Yes, it does.

Page 113, top left paragraph.


You can use each mystery you know a certain number of times per day depending on whether it is cast as a spell (once), A spell-like ability (twice), or a Supernatural ability (three times)

So clearly, making it a supernatural ability increases the number of uses per day from 2/day as a Sp to 3/day as a Su

The text which you are referring to is to keep the feat relevant if the ability already goes Su.

Let's look at it this way: A Shadowcaster picks up, for example, Shadow Mastery: Flicker. Now he hits level 7. It's now a Su instead of a Sp. Now he hits level 13. Now it's a Su, and the feat is completely worthless to him, because you can't get better than that. This feat gives them an additional use per day, just so it isn't completely wasted.

[Cog]

If you choose a mystery that you cast as a supernatural ability, or if you later gain the ability to cast that mystery as a supernatural ability, you gain an extra use of that mystery per day. This feat does not otherwise increase the number of times per day that you can cast the chosen mystery.

The text which you are referring to is to keep the feat relevant if the ability already goes Su.
That does seem to be the RAI of it. That is entirely consistent with the RAW that it only changes how you cast the mystery or gives you additional uses, and not both at once.