DMing Carrion Crown - Tips?

[subject42]

I'll be running a Skype game of Paizo's Carrion Crown adventure path soon. Has anyone run it so far? Are there any issues with the module that I know of before starting? Is there anything like the horrifying murderLamia from Rise of the Runelords?

[BlueInc]

I'm going to be starting a pbp of Carrion Crown tomorrow :D

Keep in touch? Exchange tips?

[subject42]

I'm going to be starting a pbp of Carrion Crown tomorrow :D

Keep in touch? Exchange tips?

That would be awesome. So far the only thing I'm seeing is that enchanters are going to kind of get it in the shorts, but we should keep in touch about anything else that crops up.

[BlueInc]

I'm recruiting until tonight at midnight, so I won't know what my party is until tomorrow. What's yours looking like?

[subject42]

My players are all kind of on the loopy side, so I'll likely be pregenning the characters for them. Here's the rough outline that I have so far of options that I'll present to them. I'm really kind of playing up the horror cliches. Let me know if you have any other suggestions.


Old Academy Roommate Who's Research Has Taken Him Down A Bad Path (Vivisectionist Alchemist)
Grizzled Monster Hunter Who Can't Shake His Suspicions (Some Martial Class, maybe Gunslinger or Ranger)
Strangely Clueless Yet Oddly Effective Aristocrat (Bard)
Old School Ectoplasm Vomiting Gypsy Medium That Constantly Warns of Impending Doom (Psion)
Obligatory Traveler From the Far East (Monk)
Young Priest Who Doubts His Faith, Only to Have It Confirmed In the Most Horrifying Manner Possible (Cleric or Oracle)

[BlueInc]

My players are all kind of on the loopy side, so I'll likely be pregenning the characters for them. Here's the rough outline that I have so far of options that I'll present to them. I'm really kind of playing up the horror cliches. Let me know if you have any other suggestions.


Old Academy Roommate Who's Research Has Taken Him Down A Bad Path (Vivisectionist Alchemist)
Grizzled Monster Hunter Who Can't Shake His Suspicions (Some Martial Class, maybe Gunslinger or Ranger)
Strangely Clueless Yet Oddly Effective Aristocrat (Bard)
Old School Ectoplasm Vomiting Gypsy Medium That Constantly Warns of Impending Doom (Psion)
Obligatory Traveler From the Far East (Monk)
Young Priest Who Doubts His Faith, Only to Have It Confirmed In the Most Horrifying Manner Possible (Cleric or Oracle)


Excellent :D

If you make a gunslinger, make sure to make some of the specialty ammunition that the party will find throughout the adventure bullets instead of arrows (someone brought it up on my recruiting thread).

SPOILER - Potential players be warned!

The first cache of anti-undead items the party finds has a bunch of useful enchanted arrows; making them bullets could be an easy fix if you've got a character with a gun and no one focused on bows.

Other ideas for characters:
Tough Guy Retired Bodyguard (ala Brock Samson from Venture Brothers) - (Urban?) Barbarian
Quiet Poet/Novelist on the Edge of a Major Breakdown - (Investigator?) Rogue
Intelligent but Eccentric Uncle (preferably with Mustache) - (Staff?) Magus
Former Sideshow/Circus Attraction - (Aberrant Bloodline?) Sorcerer
Vampire Hunter - (Holy Gun?) Paladin
Little Girl with Absurd, Terrifying but Mostly Uncontrollable Powers (Let Me In for inspiration) - Wilder
Scholar Who Has Unlocked Secrets from an Ancient Civilization (perhaps Azlant) - Wizard
Dog Breeder Who Is a Werewolf - (Wolf Shaman?) Druid

[subject42]

I was also considering playing up the Final Girl (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FinalGirl) archetype to good effect with a mildly unstable elf who was dragged away from the wreckage of the Whisper Tyrant's domain as a child.

Additionally, I'm homebrewing a genre awareness trait that grants a +1 trait bonus to reflex saves and perception checks when the situation has occurred in a horror movie.

[BlueInc]

I was also considering playing up the Final Girl (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FinalGirl) archetype to good effect with a mildly unstable elf who was dragged away from the wreckage of the Whisper Tyrant's domain as a child.

Additionally, I'm homebrewing a genre awareness trait that grants a +1 trait bonus to reflex saves and perception checks when the situation has occurred in a horror movie.

I like the trait...reminds me of a zombie-survival boardgame I was making a while back. Going for a sillier take on Carrion Crown then I am :smallbiggrin:
Nothing wrong with that.

[subject42]

I like the trait...reminds me of a zombie-survival boardgame I was making a while back. Going for a sillier take on Carrion Crown then I am :smallbiggrin:
Nothing wrong with that.

The last time I ran a game with these people it ended up devolving into a Jaegermeister-fueled trainwreck. It was glorious. I figure I might as well prepare for that eventuality now.

[BlueInc]

The last time I ran a game with these people it ended up devolving into a Jaegermeister-fueled trainwreck. It was glorious. I figure I might as well prepare for that eventuality now.

My IRL group is pretty crazy... they like plot, but they love doing everything possible to derail it.

For example, in a recent session, I noted that an old woman's dog, Mr. Tibbles, had gone missing and hinted strongly that it was most likely the work of goblins. Somehow they decided that Mr. Tibbles had not, in fact, died, but had projected himself into the Astral Plane, and that Mr. Tibbles was actually a demigod, and demanded worshipers.

They still ran around and did plot things, but they spent any downtime hashing out the details of Tibblology.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Scholar Who Has Unlocked Secrets from an Ancient Civilization (perhaps Azlant) - Wizard
The Atzlanti didn't have much of a presence in Ustalav. A more fitting ancient civilization here would be the ancient Kellid tribes that worshiped strange things from beyond our known reality. Their standing stones can be found throughout the land, while their descendants hide in inbred communities in the swamps and forests, loathing the Varisian nobles and aristocrats who founded Ustalav, driving them to the fringes and desecrating their "blasphemous" worship sites.

I'm one of BlueInc's potential players (though I likely will be passed over to provide opportunities for those who haven't gotten a chance to experience Carrion Crown).

As some advice to those planning on running it, here's a recommendation from the writers themselves regarding the main villain of the campaign:

In just a few hours, we'll be shipping this volume of Pathfinder, and everything we have to print regarding the Carrion Crown adventure path will be done. This foreword is, literally, the final words on the campaign. So, now that I've had my opportunity to do things exactly my way, let me tell you the number one thing I'd change if I had my way again: Adivion Adrissant.

He's this bored genius who had everything and could have been anything--a revolutionary, an archmage, a king--but nothing interested him. the whole world bored him because he was good at everything. He's that kind of guy everyone hates, both because he acts self-superior, and worse, because he might be right to act that way. He's this arrogant bastard who's so confident in his own genius that he thinks the only person who might even be able to understand him is a megalomaniacal undead archmage with delusions of godhood. And so he gets an idea.

The idea is roughly the idea from Jorge Luis Borge's short story "Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote." (Long-time readers will recognize Borge's past influence on Pathfinder, mostly as it stems from his fantastic compilation of folkloric and fictional creatures The Book of Imaginary Beings.) But would Adrissant's insane plot to recreate the Whispering Tyrant from a distant heir work? Ultimately, it doesn't matter. He's obsessed enough to think it has a chance, and his charm and ambition inspire an entire cult of necromancers and lunatics into thinking the same. That Adrissant is self-serving, bitter, and emotionally stunted doesn't matter to his followers; they view him and his vision as something far greater, a reinvigorating charge to their fractious and dysfunctional cult, and they serve his will as true fanatics. It's the blind devotion of followers willing to do anything for him that truly makes the campaign's villain deadly.

Here's the thing though. There's a pretty good chance that, unless you've done a healthy bit of thinking on what's going on behind the scenes in the campaign, this is the first time there's been much of a reason to think about the Adventure Path's prime mover. This is partly intentional. Player characters are a cagey lot, and the last thing we want is to dangle the bad guy in front of them early, risking that he might be slain ahead of schedule or forcing the GM to frustrate the PCs by making him an invincible presence. However, this is also kind of weak.

For GM's planning to run or already running the Carrion Crown adventure path, I suggest seriously considering ways to create a more intimate relationship between the PCs and their opponent. Adivion Adrissant is well informed and has a whole cult of agents and ancient magic at his disposal, so it's not outside the realm of possibility to think that he knows the faces of those on his trail. He's also an elitist haunted by the blase, so if the PCs are particularly inventive and cunning, he might discover that he enjoys their pursuit, seeing in his opponents creativity and determination of a degree he's never before encountered. Personally, I love the idea that Adrissant and the PCs have a relationship like Lecter and Starling, where he cordially taunts and dangles hints of his presence while they try to outwit him as they pursue him. I could see him corresponding with the PCs via messages left for them on the bodies of defeated cultists--I like the idea of him giving his followers sealed letters and just telling them to hold them as they wait in the PCs' path. Numerous other items, even as basic as bird feather tokens, could help Adrissant stay in touch, no matter where the PCs' journeys take them.

Overall, it's up to the GM to establish Adivion Adrissant's presence in the campaign. We should have probably pointed that out earlier, but better late than never. This could be as simple as him dropping the PCs a line at the beginning or end of each adventure, or stepping into a scene as an illusion and taunting them with their mistakes, their imperfect view of his plans, or his ability to elude them. The specifics are really left up to you. GMs also have a flexibility that we as designers don't--while we have to adhere to our rules system, in your game you're the boss, and might be willing to hand-wave how Adrissant keeps tabs on the players and trades barbs with them from the safety of his hideout. But whatever you decide to do to give Adrissant some screen time, it's up to you.

[BlueInc]

The Atzlanti didn't have much of a presence in Ustalav. A more fitting ancient civilization here would be the ancient Kellid tribes that worshiped strange things from beyond our known reality. Their standing stones can be found throughout the land, while their descendants hide in inbred communities in the swamps and forests, loathing the Varisian nobles and aristocrats who founded Ustalav, driving them to the fringes and desecrating their "blasphemous" worship sites.



Point, and the Kellid worshiping sites eventually come up in the story.

He was looking for more silly archetypes, so I was thinking of the "Atlantis-seeking" style of professor. Ancient Osirion could work ;)

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Yeah, but Lovecraft popularized that archetype, and he didn't need Atlantis to do it. Plus the Kellid sites are very Lovecraftian.

[subject42]

Yeah, but Lovecraft popularized that archetype, and he didn't need Atlantis to do it. Plus the Kellid sites are very Lovecraftian.

Is "debased cultist" a gothic cliche, or did they start to crop up later?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Definitely later, but Ustalav borrows from ALL aspects of horror, not just the gothic ones. The fourth adventure in Carrion Crown, "Wake of the Watcher" takes a little bit of everything from good ol' Howard Phillip. You've got the secretive town of inbred fish-worshipers, the mi-go, the Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young, the works. Cthulhu himself doesn't show up, but there's stats for his Star Spawn in the Bestiary section of the book, and the chapter on the Old Cults in there also describes him.

So don't limit yourself to JUST the old stuff. Pathfinder's developers greatly admire Lovecraft, and so they weren't shy about blatantly sticking the Mythos and its tropes into Golarion.

[BlueInc]

Picked my party and the thread have started.

OOC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11768431#post11768431)and IC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11768451#post11768451)if you wanna take a peak.

I decided Kendra has a butler, a faithful family servant.