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View Full Version : 6 Deadly Undead and when you should use them



Hawkfrost000
2011-09-02, 12:43 AM
Hello Playground,

I was reading something a while ago that mentioned a group of 6 undead that drained all of a players ability scores. Since i love running undead campaigns i was wondering if you guys could remind me what they are and give me some tips on the do's and dont's with them.

thanks

DM

Morph Bark
2011-09-02, 01:39 AM
Shadow for Strength damage, Allip for Wisdom.

Are the ones you read about one for each of the ability scores, or just strong undead in general?

Hawkfrost000
2011-09-02, 01:39 AM
They were for each ability score, i think there was 5 that are well known and one from a lesser known expansion.

starwoof
2011-09-02, 01:48 AM
Wraith's have the infamous con drain.

Hawkfrost000
2011-09-02, 01:52 AM
Thanks,

so far we have:

Shadows: Strength Drain
Wraiths: Constitution Drain
Allips: Wisdom Drain

any ideas for Dex and Int drain?

starwoof
2011-09-02, 02:19 AM
Ghosts can actually choose any of the six scores to drain. That's horrifying.

Trouvere
2011-09-02, 02:23 AM
Skin kites (LM p. 119) damage Cha.

Edit:
Cinderspawn (LM p. 91) drain Cha.
Dream vestiges (LM p. 96) drain Int.
Spectral Lyrists (LM p. 123) drain Cha.

Zephyros
2011-09-02, 02:24 AM
Death shriekers (sp?) damage charisma from MM3 iirc.

Hazzardevil
2011-09-02, 02:34 AM
Theres a fey in monster manual 3 that drains charisma, but that doesn't stun someone if their charisma is dropped to 0, they simply no longer can be scared or recieve morale bonuses.

Gabe the Bard
2011-09-02, 02:57 AM
Let's not forget about the visuals. A skin kite, cinderspawn, and spectral lyricist all deal Charisma damage, but they do it in very different ways. The skin kite will flay you; the cinderspawn will burn you with cold fire; and the spectral lyricist will, err, grope you.

Mordokai
2011-09-02, 03:35 AM
Check Libris Mortis. As far as memory serves, there's just about any sort of the draining to be found in there, but the specifics escape me at the moment.

TroubleBrewing
2011-09-02, 03:43 AM
Shadows actually damage Strength, not drain. The difference is slight but important: Damage returns at a rate of 1/day, but drain is permanent.

Trouvere
2011-09-02, 03:54 AM
Oh look - someone has done the work for us already:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156274

Shadowknight12
2011-09-02, 06:35 AM
That was actually me. :smalltongue:


Or the I.S., the Incorporeal Septet, a group of incorporeal undead who can drain every single ability score and inflict negative levels (Shadow, Spectre, Wraith, Dream Vestige, Banshee, Allip and Forgewraith (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041105b&page=6)). I haven't calculated the CR for that (as it probably requires a higher number of the lower-CR creatures, or perhaps their advancement towards stronger forms), but it does require a high amount of teamwork to overcome.

If you don't want to drain levels, just ditch the Spectre.

Steward
2011-09-02, 06:52 AM
Honestly, if those scary SOBs ever came near one of my characters I'd just start rolling a new one under the table, just in case.

Dr.Epic
2011-09-02, 10:30 AM
Liches always make for a good big bad.

Hawkfrost000
2011-09-02, 12:08 PM
Liches always make for a good big bad.

actually the villain is probably going to be a Dread Necomancer/Cleric of Nerull rather than an actually lich.

NikitaDarkstar
2011-09-02, 01:18 PM
Theres a fey in monster manual 3 that drains charisma, but that doesn't stun someone if their charisma is dropped to 0, they simply no longer can be scared or recieve morale bonuses.

Don't forget some classes uses it as their casting stat, it's pretty crippling for them. (Actually dropping below 10 on your casting stat = disabled caster.)

Aneurin
2011-09-03, 12:28 PM
The Banshee from MMII can, I think, drain 4 points of all stats from a character that looks at it. That is horrifying.

EDIT: Okay, just checked it and actually any creature within 60 feet that looks at it must succeed a DC26 Fort save or permanently lose 1d4 str, dex and con. By the looks of the description, you can lose the stats again and again until you pass a fort save that makes you immune to the effect for 24 hours.

How to correctly use it: Have it shout "look at me!"?

Silus
2011-09-03, 12:33 PM
actually the villain is probably going to be a Dread Necomancer/Cleric of Nerull rather than an actually lich.

Why not both?

The Glyphstone
2011-09-03, 03:16 PM
The Banshee from MMII can, I think, drain 4 points of all stats from a character that looks at it. That is horrifying.

EDIT: Okay, just checked it and actually any creature within 60 feet that looks at it must succeed a DC26 Fort save or permanently lose 1d4 str, dex and con. By the looks of the description, you can lose the stats again and again until you pass a fort save that makes you immune to the effect for 24 hours.

How to correctly use it: Have it shout "look at me!"?

Wow, that's awful - it's not Ability damage or ability drain, so it's impossible to be immune to it...

Hunter Noventa
2011-09-03, 03:39 PM
There's something in MM3 called an Epheremal Swarm or something like that. It's a swarm...it's incorporeal...it autohits for 1d6 Strength damage and anything brought to zero strength by it dies automatically. It also has an auto-nauseate effect on anything it can be damaging. And it flies.

It's CR is 5. Never use it. Ever.