I need help...

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

Hello playgrounders! I want (need) your help. I frequent the theoretical optimization part of the D&D forums and talk with my friends about it. Due to this everyone feels like I am going to break a game by just by being near it. I do optimize (Battle field control wizard, DMM Cleric, Druid etc...) but I don't actually play things that are broken out of the box or are just crazy(Pun-Pun, Druid/Planar Shepard, Chain-Gating, Thrallheard, Leadership chaining, etc...). I need builds that are roughly 3rd tier so I am not game breaking but I still fill a roll in the party. I would normally do this myself but every time I try to make a 3rd tier character I tend to see some feat or ability combo that I use to end up breaking the character.

[Waker]

You want to play a 3rd tier character? Ok that's respectable, but you gotta narrow down the field a bit.
What role do you wanna play? What level are you looking at? What resources do you have at your disposal?

[vampire2948]

I have a similar problem.

Either go for a support character, Bard going into something buffy, like War Weaver.

Or just take a straight 3rd tier class which leaves little room for player interpretation outside the basic role of the class. e.g. play an Elf Swordsage.

What I mean about interpretation is don't take a Dread Necro, since you'd probably over-optimize the undead - In the view of your group.


But yes, support character is probably a good idea.

[faceroll]

Play a beguiler or dread necro or psy war right out of the box, so to speak, or try optimizing a warmage or duskblade. That should give you a nice T3 build.

Beguiler is a super cool class.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

You want to play a 3rd tier character? Ok that's respectable, but you gotta narrow down the field a bit.
What role do you wanna play? What level are you looking at? What resources do you have at your disposal?

I have any source at my disposal and it doesn't matter what role the build fills just so long as it is roughly tier 3.

Buffers look good and I have always wanted to play a beguiler. Any feats I should avoid so as to not seem 'OP'?

[faceroll]

Mindsight.

[mucco]

Versatile Spellcaster.

[Lateral]

Shadowcraft Mage.

[Greenish]

Vow of Peace and Vow of Nonviolence are pretty strong on beguiler, but quite annoying for the rest of the party.

[Waker]

A solid tier 3 without resorting to any crazy cheese eh? How about
Spellthief 1/Bard 7/War Weaver 5/???
Spellthief gives you trapfinding, Master Spellthief can steal extra spells for buffs or attacking, bard/war weaver is of course an excellent combo. You could throw Abjurant Champion in there to burn stolen spells with Arcane Boost for extra damage or quick buffs, Sublime Chord for access to upper level spells, Unseen Seer to boost your sneaking abilities further or go with something like Swiftblade to become a better combatant.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

Ok so no preventing ambushes, no increasing my caster level and if I take a level that makes me lose a CL no making it up.

EDIT:

I have never thought about mixing Abjurant Champion with Spellthief. Looks good, thanks for the build.

[Fouredged Sword]

Note thay you can take arcane perperation and you can now prepare sanctified spells, luminus armor is a abjuration, makeing it a swoft action casting for a abjurent champion, it is also 2nd level, makeing it weaveable by warweaver...

combat starts, now the whole party is glowing with the light of goodness and untouchable becuse of the +12 or so AC and -4 to oncomeing attacks. Then you start casting other buffs....

[Olo Demonsbane]

Ok so no preventing ambushes, no increasing my caster level and if I take a level that makes me lose a CL no making it up.

EDIT:

I have never thought about mixing Abjurant Champion with Spellthief. Looks good, thanks for the build.

Oh, and with the beguiler, don't let your DM let you keep "pets" charmed/dominated. If you can get one enemy each level to fall victim to a Charm...you could have rather versatile and powerful support group that would eliminate the need for actual fighters and such.

[TurtleKing]

Could always grab some Tier 4 and optimise. That way you can do quite a bit without being overpowering. Could go with a Factotum without the cheese or a TOM only Binder. Try something like a Bard (don't go overboard), Dragon Shaman, or a Marshall.

So you not really thinking of a character so much as the optimisation level based on the tiers? Well how about think of a character then try to only optimise has is appropiate for that character. Lets say you want a long long range sniper in terms of extreme range that can deal sizable damage without machine gunning. Try taking one of the crossbows making it so you fire a sizable shot at long range. Do you fire very often no, but you hit the target farther they can possibly even see you.

I have only once in the past two years of overing around this board been in a situation that I had to wear the dunce hat. Reason is because I keep the optimisation in line with the character concept.